MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1985 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: prince daren by David John Curry 2) casting/SW/Lifebonds by "You" 3) Re: Randomness from Raven by "Tanya Evans" 4) Re: How tall is a companion?/Hands by dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph 5) a bunch o' stuff by Kristy Lyseng 6) Re: Writing about stuff you haven't experienced by Alexia/Sabrina 7) Re: sf/f as myth by Lyssa Knox 8) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_sf=2Ff_as_myth?= by Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com 9) rand vs. van by JoycersD-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: rand vs. van by "Mark Severson" 11) A little bit of everything by ladyember-+AT+-email.com 12) King Daren? by Chris 13) hero myth by ambermoon starshadow ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 13:39:00 +0100 From: David John Curry To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: prince daren Message-ID: <3757C8E4.FD63C751-+AT+-exeter.ac.uk> Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com wrote: > I think we'll have to ask people who actually have monarchs, or else go & > research the darn stuff ... *Convention* is that the wife of a monarch is a queen, but the husband of a monarch is a prince. Hence Prince Philip and Queen Elizabeth II, Prince Albert and Queen Victoria. I presume that ML uses the English system. David. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:20:18 -0000 From: "You" To: Subject: casting/SW/Lifebonds Message-ID: <00c401beaed5$6565f3c0$40a515a5-+AT+-knbwubxl> Hi!!! :i absolutely hate it when actors are cast that look nothing like the :characters they're supposed to play!!! Ahh... y'know. Anne Rice has something for Antonio Banderas. that's why. yeah, he totally killed Armand. (how _could_ she???) Y'know, I always thought that Armand looked fragile, sad, and all that. kinda like a redheaded 'lendel... ;) Ahhhh Star Wars was good, but it won't survive 20 years like the original did. I think the original will live 40 years... ;) hmm, maybe I'll live to see episodes 7-9... ;) Raven ...um.. exclaimed: :Kero and Eldan are *not* lifebonded, do you people hear me? :KeroAndEldanAreNotLifebonded! Eeeeeyagh! *L* Yeah, they're not lifebonded. Just coz they have a pretty active ..ah... life together, does not mean that they're bond is destined, etc. 'Sides, you don't see Eldan moping around when Kero worries, or one being suicidal while the other is stable? Lifebonded couples were supposed to balance each other off. Which is why 'lendel is suicidal while van is implosive, why van is altruistic while stef is slightly selfish. Kero and Eldan may have a Lovebond, but not a lifebond. the two aren't the same (refer to Stef's explanation in WoFury) And I don't think Elspeth and Darkwind are lifebonded either. They're too pragmatic about everything. I don't see them making goo-goo eyes at each other like I can see Talia and Dirk doing.. *shivers* ahh, and Raven, I _did_ mean for them to send you the pics... It'd be unfair otherwise! What I _am_ offering is some space to store them on, if you want.. Yes yes *nods empathically*. Send in your noms like Li'nia said! I'm waiting! :) Jedi sheep! Jedi sheep! woohoo! ( ) May the Force be with You!!!!! <==-+AT+-==> Shadowblade, mindmate to Raul | | Fairgove elven archer >>~~~> | | High Priestess of the Goddess of Elves and Unicorns and OOPS | | Singer of Fire, Member of the Mistic Circle \/ OOUH Advocate of the entire Urban Fantasy group! :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:38:10 -0400 From: "Tanya Evans" To: Subject: Re: Randomness from Raven Message-ID: <002b01beae97$dea98960$23040618-+AT+-baycty1.mi.home.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Abigail Laughlin To: Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 8:22 AM Subject: Randomness from Raven > But Elspeth and Darkwind, I am not so concerned about. Kero and Darkwind are > not lifebonded. > I'll agree with you there, Kero and Darkwind are not lifebonded. => *grin* I couldn't resist and just so you forgive me sooner here are some sheep shaped strawberry/chocolate truffles. Ellevaranachai Shay'Nara'Val Herald Trainee, but Bard wannabe => Rethwellan by Nature, Chosen by Virtue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:50:49 +0000 From: dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: How tall is a companion?/Hands Message-ID: > From: Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com > anyone know how hands translate to feet or meters? In case this might be of use to anyone, a "hand" measures four inches, and the height is taken at the withers not at the head. Sara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:43:54 PDT From: Kristy Lyseng To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: a bunch o' stuff Message-ID: <19990604164354.51917.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! Well, I decided to step out of my lurkdom to say a few things. First of all I am graduating on Saturday and unlike many other grads I'm not that excited. Don't know why, but it takes more than that to make me excited (but a StarWars movie would ). Here's a second thing that I wanted to talk about. Since there are evidently StarWars fans out there has anyone ever looked down on you because you watched the trilogy and they just HAPPEN to be one of your favourite movies? Or have any StarTrek fans ever faced this? And if you just happen to mention that you don't watch soap operas they look at you as if you've suddenly grown a third eye or something? This is just something that has been bugging me practically all of my life. and I jsut wanted to know if anyone here has ever shared these types of experiences. Third thing on my list to talk about is a really good episode I saw on Babylon 5. I missed the beginning of this since I was watching pokemon, but when I turned to the SPACE station I couldn't turn away. Basically it was about a boy who was ill or something and he needed a surgery that would make him well, but his parents wouldn't let the doctor do this because they believed that the spirit was in the skin. What I liked about this episode was because it is something doctors face every time they recieve critical patients or patients who wish to die while they're kept alive by mations (in otherwords, mercy killing). I believe there's a law that only God decides whether they should shut down the machine keeping the patient alive and it's in the medical personnels' power to keep that switch from killing the machine. But they're not God. Who are they to say who should stay alive when the patient doesn't want to or else it's against their religion? This is from one scene that was in the show. I could be wrong on the words, though: Sinclair: Who asked you to play God?! Dr. Franklin Stevens: Ever damn patient that goes through those doors, that's who! And speaking of Babylon 5, I was wondering if anybody knows what season that Ivonova says, " . . . I'm Death Incarnate. I'm sent from God." And there's another one to, but I forget what she says . . . Sorry, no OB Misty today. Love, Light and Laughter, Kristy (Jedi-in-training, heh, heh) P.S.: Does anyone have the lyrics to either Unloved by Jan Arden or Heroes by the Wallflowers? -------------------------- The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.--Albert Einstein -------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:42:37 +0100 From: Alexia/Sabrina To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Writing about stuff you haven't experienced Message-ID: <037c01beaea4$6c7aa880$59cc28c3-+AT+-oemcomputer> >I have to disagree with both of these statements. There is a difference between understanding and living. I can understand what my friends have gone through and what the events in their lives have done to them, even though I haven't lived their lives. I have a friend who was abused in subtle ways for most of her life (and who continues to be abused, although she will not face that fact). Knowing that, I can understand why she behaves the way she does, and I can empathize with how she felt then and feels now. Gotta disagree again. For a lot of things... unless you've been there, it's nearly impossible to REALLY understand something... take doctor's in Eating Disorders- they have all the knowledge and understand some of the problems... but they, never-the-less, don't understand a lot of it- hence the fact that treatment is very poor. It is possible to understand a lot of things- especially if you're close to someone who has experienced whatever-it-is, BUT, unless you've been there, there will be large and vital gaps in your understanding. > >However, we can use our imagination and empathy so that we can figure out how the other person must have felt in a given situation (based on what they have told us and how they have told it) and we can make intelligent >predictions about how situations will affect each other in the future. That is the heart of understanding, and it is very different from "living"something. Figure out how the person is LIKELY to have felt. MIGHT have felt but not MUST. We can all guess what is likely BUT people aren't logical... Unless you've been there you CAN'T know how it feels... even if you're close to someone who has- they can tell you all about it BUT it's still second hand and there are some things only someone on the 'inside' can understand. >As an afternote, perhaps the reason that accounts of dealing with the aftermath of child abuse (or any other sort of abuse) usually don't ring true or fail to satisfy is that they are inherently Individual experiences. Treating with them on the General or Universal level necessarily robs them of the immediacy that is the heart of the experience and the core of the problems that follow after the abuse. Writing abuse on a 'general' level is always going to be inaccurate. Abuse is NOT general and to treat it as if it is denies a great deal of the emotion. Immediacy is not what I would say is what is the heart of abuse. Abuse suffered decades ago is not immediate but the memories are just as powerful... the FEELINGS involved are what's important- and they tend to be fairly uniform in all cases. A lot of writing about abuse is just written for 'shock' value but has not real impact in terms of the emotions of the victim. All cases are different, but the feelings are often very, very similar. It's not the 'setting' that makes something sound wrong... it's the person's reaction to it partly but MOSTLY, it's the way it's written which gives an indicator of why- what I mean is, it's the FOCUS of the scene that's important and it really does show whether the author understands at least a bit of the situation and feelings. I think a very sensitive person could very well write convincingly about abuse, but I think there would be little things that just didn't ring properly... Bearing in mind that lots of people bury abuse... Anyway... interesting debate. Alexia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 18:21:11 GMT From: Lyssa Knox To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sf/f as myth Message-ID: <19990604182115.42032.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com wrote: :here's another tangent (let's see what else you read!): how closely :does lhm :relate to robert jordan's wheel of time (main characters only, :jourdan has a :huge cast) -- van's journey vs. rand's? anyone? i think there are :a number :of parallels, which helps to illustrate the universality (is this a :word?) of :these themes. i cant really see van relating to rand, but if you take out the wholegoing crazy/voices-in-mind thing maybe...aside from that tho...i can see the universality of it personally i think WOT (wheel of time) is slipping, but i havent read path of daggers yet so i could be wrong... sorry so short, Silverwing ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jun 99 16:12 EDT From: Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_sf=2Ff_as_myth?= Message-ID: <3758347dRe: sf/f as myth*-+AT+-m400gw.wiley.com> path was very slow (haven't even finished it yet). i guess what i was looking at were the aspects that in order to fulfill their respective destinies, the heroes must be destroyed (death in van's case, insanity in rand's); both had their destinies forced upon them ... things like that. now granted, rand has 3 women chasing him and poor van spent large portions of his life nearly celibate, so the parallels aren't exact, but ... "mercedes-lackey/-+AT+-herald.co.uk" on 06/04/99 02:33:40 PM To: adrianne cook-+AT+-wiley cc: Subject: Re: sf/f as myth Heyla Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com wrote: :here's another tangent (let's see what else you read!): how closely :does lhm :relate to robert jordan's wheel of time (main characters only, :jourdan has a :huge cast) -- van's journey vs. rand's? anyone? i think there are :a number :of parallels, which helps to illustrate the universality (is this a :word?) of :these themes. i cant really see van relating to rand, but if you take out the wholegoing crazy/voices-in-mind thing maybe...aside from that tho...i can see the universality of it personally i think WOT (wheel of time) is slipping, but i havent read path of daggers yet so i could be wrong... sorry so short, Silverwing ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:03:43 EDT From: JoycersD-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: rand vs. van Message-ID: but...both rand and van their time chasing darkfriends/shadows/evil doers. they both separate themselves (or at least try to) from the people that they care about in order to protect them from harm. and there are definitely no companions or any other kind of similars running around in the wheel of time...unless you count perrin's wolves. i think that the aiel and the hawkbrothers could be distant relatives, i know it might be a stretch, considering that the aiel are living in exile. but they are both very territorial and protect their lands by any means. i won't even try to match the heralds and the aes sedai/warders, way too different. what about kero and birgette though?..... by the way, this is my first post. yay for me, the newbie! . . . and on that note, what's up with this sheep business? Joycers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:23:45 -0700 From: "Mark Severson" To: Subject: Re: rand vs. van Message-ID: <000f01beaee1$4bc30820$ba6cb4cd-+AT+-janltcea> Welcome to the fold Joycers, Someone more knowledgeable then I will tell you about the sheep. There is one other thing that also happens on regular basis to the newbies - Hint: invest in towels - now. mark the tax zombie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:07:47 -0400 (EDT) From: ladyember-+AT+-email.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: A little bit of everything Message-ID: <990604200747H1.07678-+AT+-webc01.globecomm.net> Heyla all! :Lady Ember looks wistfully at all of her list sibs, hoping that one of them has some computer geek sheep to help her with her troubles: I can not get this bloody email program to let me braid!!! Anyway, how is everybody lately? I am peachy, although school finals are taking up time that I would much rather be spending reading =) I agree that Ewan should definately star as someone, not Skif though. He could be eather Ikan or Justin from Oathbound though. I have been re-reading the Arrows books, and discovered something interesting. Orthallan sounds *so* much like Tim Curry...like the way he talks sounds like Tim Curry's voice to me. Evil, yet elegantly refined? I was just wondering if anyone else ever thought of that. I have one little funny thing before I go. One of my friends was doing an ink-blot psychological test for a final project, and there was one ink-blot that looked *just* like a flaming sheep! =) wind to thy wings, Lady Ember Echosinger, the choreographically challenged Singer of Fire (yay!) {Jedi Knight in training} ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address -+AT+-email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:59:23 -0700 From: Chris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: King Daren? Message-ID: Lady Jennifer says: >Also, the marriage was between two allies of two free standing countries, >so there was no need to make Daren a co-ruler. It was done because of >their lifebond. That brings up another question...in all the books, it >always says "Prince Daren". If he's married to the Queen, doesn't that >make him the King? Or because it's her second marriage and she's already >on the throne when they meet, he stays a prince? Or is because he was >never King in his own country? Or does Daren not really fill the title of >"ruler", more of ambassador and liasion? All that stuff depends on the local laws. Examples: years and years ago Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain married Philip Montbatten. He became HRH the Duke of Edinburgh, not King - under British law you don't become King by marrying the Queen. The only example that comes to mind, offhand, of someone marrying the Queen and becoming King was Henry, a Tudor, who married Mary Queen of Scots in order to bring about an England-Scotland detente. Unfortunately, Henry was killed under dubious circumstances and Mary was forced to flee into exile... thus the problems inherent with marriage creating a ruler. I'm sure there are better examples, though. Chris -- Chris Colvin knight-+AT+-sirius.com http://www.sirius.com/~knight/ "Is this incompetence or is this treason?" - overheard in the Russian Duma, 1917 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:16:55 PDT From: ambermoon starshadow To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: hero myth Message-ID: <19990605031656.39493.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla, Thank you Shadowlight and Shadowblade; I absolutely died laughing on the LHM/SW posts. (I literally had a mini five minute laughing fit in front of my computer.) As for universal hero themes, I'll just copy the table my teacher gave us as structure for a hero story (taken from Joseph Campbell's The_Hero_With_a_Thousand_Faces) I. Departure a. The call to adventure b. refusal of the call c. supernatural aid d. the crossing of the first threshold e. the belly of the whale II. Initiation a. the road of trials b. the meeting with the goddess c. Woman as the temptress d. Atonement with the father e. Apotheosis f. The ultimate boon III. Return a. Refusal of the return b. The Magic flight c. Rescue from without d. The Crossing of the return threshold e. Master of the two worlds f. Freedom to live It's relatively easy to find all of these in both SW and LHM. Some of them can be taken loosely, not held to the exact wording in the chart (ie. the temptation is not always a woman). Sorry for the late response (exams), but, Sara, according to the definition of "myth" I received other fiction could not be myth because the supernatural is a fundamental part, and without it the "myth" is not so and is just a story. (So many kids in my class complained about having to write magic into their stories; I was delighted to have a teacher not only not forbid but require it.) The casting thread . . . can't contribute there, but that was quite a storm. Is it starting up again? Star Wars humming sheep to all, Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1985 **********************************