MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1987 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Star Wars in Valdemar? by ladyember-+AT+-email.com 2) Question by Dawn Woodard 3) Re: Star Wars in Valdemar? by EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com 4) Re: Babylon 5 by Abigail Laughlin 5) Re: Writing about stuff you haven't experienced by Kenneth Allen Hyde 6) Re: Star Wars in Valdemar? by Orelalaith 7) Re: Star Wars in Valdemar? by EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com 8) Monarch's Consort by Joey Burgess 9) MLML ObMisties/Urban/Sheep by Peter Allen 10) SW/KoGS by "You" 11) Van and Rand with a few other things thrown in for intrest by Sorana Stargem 12) Re: Writing about stuff you haven't experienced by "Alexia/Sabrina" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:27:33 -0400 (EDT) From: ladyember-+AT+-email.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star Wars in Valdemar? Message-ID: <990606112733B8.15622-+AT+-www5.iname.net> heyla! I've been reading the whole Star Wars/Gryphon parallels, and I'm not quite sure that I understand. I mean, I understand where you got the parallels, I'm just not quite sure that I get it. I guess it's because I see the gryphons more as "people" and not as things. =) I love comparing Star Wars to Valdemar though! Jedi sheep for everyone! Lady Ember who is proud to have liked both Swing Music and Star Wars "before" they were "cool"! ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address -+AT+-email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:52:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Woodard To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Question Message-ID: <19990606165212.21199.rocketmail-+AT+-web222.mail.yahoo.com> Does anyone know the name and author of the poem from which ML drew the titles of the Urban fantasy books. I had a copy of it, once upon a time, but I have been unable to find it. (Iswear I'll get organized one of these days. Then with my luck, an actual tornado will go through and disorganize everything.) Anyway, a few lines of the poem go like this. This knight of ghost and shadows Who had been summoned to tourney ... That's all I remember (easy to do with the titles in the lines). I've looked in many editions of Granger's Index to Poetry, but have been unable to find anything. Many thanks for any help. Jadzia _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:35:04 EDT From: EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star Wars in Valdemar? Message-ID: <3f57327d.248c2768-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 6/6/99 10:37:15 AM Central Daylight Time, ladyember-+AT+-email.com writes: << I guess it's because I see the gryphons more as "people" and not as things. >> I think you're probably right here, but you can think of the x-wings as people too, remember they do have living pilots within them.. ~~EarthSong~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 13:48:30 PDT From: Abigail Laughlin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Message-ID: <19990606204831.85475.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> < And speaking of Babylon 5, I was wondering if anybody knows what season >that Ivonova says, " . . . I'm Death Incarnate. I'm sent from God." And >there's another one to, but I forget what she says . . . That's in season 4. The full quote is... "I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry *** right back to Earth. I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me.">> God, I love that quote. It is, as I recall, in response to some idiot enemy captain asking Ivanova's Whitestar "Who sent you? Identify yourself." How very Keroesque. You will note, should you look at the cast list page, that there are several actors from Babylon 5 (Jason Carter (Marcus), Claudia Christian (Ivanova), and Bruce Boxlietner (Sheridan), possibly others). Ivanova is probably my favorite--she has a very caustic, very Kero-like sense of humor, and sometime soon I'll have several quotes from her on the cast list page to argue my case, including the one above. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Webmaster of the Circle of Stone, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes; http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ - The Labyrinth _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:30:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Writing about stuff you haven't experienced Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Alexia/Sabrina wrote: > Gotta disagree again. For a lot of things... unless you've been there, it's > nearly impossible to REALLY understand something... [snip] > Figure out how the person is LIKELY to have felt. MIGHT have felt but not > MUST. We can all guess what is likely BUT people aren't logical... Unless > you've been there you CAN'T know how it feels... True. But my point is that you also can't know how it feels, even if you have lived through it. You aren't the other person, and you will never ever be able to experience something (even the exact same situation) as they would. You may have lived through something similar, but you still wouldn't know how they felt any better than anyone else. In fact, I would say that an empathetic and observant friend would have a better chance of understanding someone than a stranger who has had a similar experience. To get out of the emotionally charged example of abuse, let's look at something else: a movie. You and your best friend go to a movie. Imagine that you both grew up together, have had many similar experiences in your lives, etc. You both see the same movie at the same time. Do you both feel the same way about the movie? Do you have the same emotional reactions? How do you know that you do? You can't. We never really can experience other people's thoughts and emotions directly, so we never really *know* what others are thinking or feeling. We can only guess, based on observation. The event that might devestate one person could be trivial to another. Here's a more emotionally charged example: My best friend and I broke up with our respective significant others at the same time. In both cases, it was the SO who made the suggestion. My best friend was very badly hurt and upset and it took her several years to get closure and move on. I, on the other hand, went home, cried a few tears, got a good night's sleep, and was fine the next morning. I can understand what my friend went through, not from any personally lived experience, but because I know her and have observed her long enough to know how she thinks and feels. In fact, if I went by the shared life experience, I would never even come close to understanding her, because the experience did not affect us the same way. The worst thing I could have done would have been to assume that my experience of breaking up with someone I loved was going to give me any insight into her experience of the same event. I have had people who claimed, on the basis of shared experiences, that they "knew exactly how I felt." While I could accept that statement as a well-meant expression of sympathy, it was nevertheless a laughably false statement. In almost every case, their subsequent actions and words (based on "knowing" how I felt) were clear proof that they had no clue what was going on in my mind. I frequently find myself wanting to ask people, "if you know how I feel right now, why are you doing exactly the wrong thing?" Anyway, to bring this back to writing, I think that writers who do the equivalent of saying "I know how you feel" based on their own experiences run the risk of projecting themselves onto an audience that may not, in fact, share their feelings. Using personal experience may be a useful stepping stone to a more general and sharable experience, but it can't be the entirety. You still have to generalize, to find the part of your experience that will be shared by a large number of people and is not just you. Obviously, if you are not working from the basis of personal experience, you are not likely to fall into the "I've been there and this is what it's like" trap. Perhaps, if you have no experience (including secondary or tertiary) with your subject, you will not be able to get much of a reaction from your audience, but if you are observant, thoughtful, and empathetic, you will probably do a pretty good job. Just as a note, one of the most romantic songs in recent years, according to a large number of my friends was "Foolish Games" by Jewel. It really is an amazingly poignant and bittersweet song about the kind of pain that can happen in a love affair. The interesting thing is that Jewel has stated, on a number of occasions, that the song has nothing to do with her life, and that she has no real emotional tie to its message. That song, to me, is a perfect example of just how intensely moving a piece of writing can be, even without personal experience to base it on. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:05:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star Wars in Valdemar? Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jun 1999 EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/6/99 10:37:15 AM Central Daylight Time, > ladyember-+AT+-email.com writes: > > << I guess it's because I see the gryphons more as "people" and not as > things. >> > > I think you're probably right here, but you can think of the x-wings as > people too, remember they do have living pilots within them.. Actually, if you think of the R* units in them as thier brains, they become much more sentient... not to mention the fact that xwings, not unlike droids, also gain personality (though not as much as the latter)if it's computer isn't wiped once a month or so as standerd procedure... > ~~EarthSong~~ > * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 01:21:54 EDT From: EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star Wars in Valdemar? Message-ID: <96aad045.248cb0f2-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 6/6/99 11:39:38 PM Central Daylight Time, ghsu-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu writes: << not to mention the fact that xwings, not unlike droids, also gain personality (though not as much as the latter)if it's computer isn't wiped once a month or so as standerd procedure... >> True, i had forgotten about this.. thats why Luke's x-wing responded to him so well, he refused to have it wiped... ~~EarthSong~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 23:06:38 PDT From: Joey Burgess To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Monarch's Consort Message-ID: <19990607060638.76272.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> "wow, dropping out of lurkdom twice in less than 30 days...that's got to be a record" Someone, i don't remember who, now, asked about wheather or not the Monarchs consort would be co-ruler..Well, according to Arrow's Fall, the answer would be if the consort were a herald, then yes.pp 50-51 (paperback) of Arrows Fall, Queen Selany says to Talia "I saw for myself the kind of problems that can come when the Queen's consort is not co-ruler, yet has been trained to the idea of rule. And you know very well that Elspeth's husband will not share the Throne unless he, too, is Chosen." That should clear that one up nicely.... Taliesin Pereldan, Impressed of Gold Rhiannon, fire-lizard Journeyman Harper _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 02:32:02 -0400 From: Peter Allen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: MLML ObMisties/Urban/Sheep Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990607023202.007fb580-+AT+-pop3.frontiernet.net> Hi all, This is just a friendly reminder from a Councilor that this is a Mercedes Lackey discussion list. While I'm enjoying the discussion in regards to Star Wars, as other people probably are, one needs to either tie in Misty to the e-mail, include an ObMisty, or take the conversation into private areas. What, you don't know what an ObMisty is? :) ObMisty stands for Obligatory Misty, meaning that in a post that is mostly fluff (anything that isn't vaguely about ML or her works), a person is supposed to make the token mention of some Misty-based comment or question to show that they realize that the discussion list is devoted to her. Most of the time, with those that braid their posts together, this isn't something that needs to be done, since at least one part of the braid should be about Misty. For those that are replying to one post that is off-topic, you're still allowed and encouraged to do so.. so long as you talk some about Misty too :). --- In regards to the poem that Misty uses her Urban Fantasy titles from, I'd be interested to hear more about.. was it something from another author? Also, for those that wanted to know about the sheep, it started out as a mention in the LHM books at the end, and then list members started having a "Find the Sheep" contest in stories, trading sheep back and forth, then trading sheep cookies, then sheep blankets, sheep plushies.. you get the idea :) Bright be thy day in the sun, Wintershard Councilor of Mist http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/rules_thumb.html http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:15:19 +0800 From: "You" To: Subject: SW/KoGS Message-ID: <00a201beb0b5$8ba88980$eba815a5-+AT+-knbwubxl> Heyla... (parenthesis mine) :You do have some good points there. (thanks!) :I personally am no longer a huge star wars junkie but i used to be very very :addicted to it...(ditto.) I haven't even seen the phantom menace yet.. i'm tempted to :go see it later today.. :~~Justyn EarthSong~~ I've seen it. like i said... anyway, i don't think we should go into the phantom menace. it's not being shown in some cty all the way till october. Jadzia asked about the quote? I always figured it to come from Yeats. Wait, I'll check... it's from this song, but it doesn't say who's it by... Bedlam Boys ------------- For to see mad Tom of Bedlam, ten thousand miles I'll travel. Mad Maudlin goes on dirty toes for to save her shoes from gravel. Still I sing bonny boys, bonny mad boys: Bedlam boys are bonny, for they all go bare and they live by the air and they want no drink nor money. I went down to Pluto's Kitchen for to get me food one morning, and there I got souls piping hot, all on the spit a-turning. My staff has murdered giants; my bag a long knife carries for to cut mince-pies from children's thighs with which to feed the fairies. The spirits white as lightning would on my travels guide me; the moon would shake and the stars would quake whenever they espied me. And when that I'll be murdering the man in the moon to a powder, his staff I'll break and his dog I'll shake, and there'll howl no demon louder. By a knight of ghosts and shadows I summoned am to tourney ten leagues beyond the wild world's end; methinks it is no journey. Of forty bare years have I twice twenty been enraged, and of thirty been three times fifteen in durance soundly caged; Still I do sing any food, any feeding, feeding, drink or clothing? come dame, come maid, be not afraid: poor Tom will injure nothing. With a host of furious fancies of which I am commander, with a flaming spear and a horse of air through the wilderness I'll wander. I know more than Apollo, for oft when he lies sleeping I see the stars at bloody wars in the wounded welkin weeping. >From the hag and the hungry goblin that into rags would rend ye, may the spirit that stands by the naked man in the Book of Moons defend ye. That of your five sound senses may you never be forsaken, nor wander from yourselves with Tom abroad to beg your bacon. Remember to Vote! ( ) Wind to thy Wings <==-+AT+-==> Shadowblade, mindmate to Raul | | Fairgove elven archer >>~~~> | | High Priestess of the Goddess of Elves and Unicorns and OOPS | | Singer of Fire, Member of the Mistic Circle \/ OOUH Advocate of the entire Urban Fantasy group! :) "Go not to the elves for counsel, for they will say 'Abort, Retry, Fail?'" --from The Cloak of Night and Daggers, by Rosemary Edgehill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 00:27:05 PDT From: Sorana Stargem To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Van and Rand with a few other things thrown in for intrest Message-ID: <19990607072707.21911.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla all!! Well, I had my ballet recital last night and it all went great! I would like to thenk the Goddess of the Arts for watching over us and I give her these offerings. ~gestures and a large platter of chocolate raspberry truffle sheep appears with aanother large platter of chocolate dark forest sheep and a platter of bread pudding sheep~ Raven Darkblade wrote: >But Elspeth and Darkwind, I am not so concerned about. Kero and Darkwind >are >not lifebonded. I'm very glad to hear that Kero and Darkwind aren't lifebonded. I would've been worried if they were. ;) Adrianne wrote: >path was very slow (haven't even finished it yet). i guess what i >was >looking at were the aspects that in order to fulfill their >respective >destinies, the heroes must be destroyed (death in van's >case, insanity in >rand's); both had their destinies forced upon them >... things like that. >now granted, rand has 3 women chasing him and >poor van spent large >portions of his life nearly celibate, so the >parallels aren't exact, but >... I see what you mean. And not only do they both get destroyed, but they both come back. Van as a ghost (or Guardian Spirit) in Sorrows, and Rand as whoever he is in the next Age. I can even see the parallels in their lovelives. Ready for this one? :) Rand manages to fall in love with three women. At the same time no less. This has him turned on his head and he spends a lot of time incredibly confused. He also feels guilty for being in love with three women; like he's betraying each of them for being in love with the other two, especially Elayne. (or, wait, maybe he got over his feelings of betrayl by the time he realized he was in love with Min. I only read the series twice, so I'm not sure. Maybe I'm completely wrong about him feeling like he betrayed any of them. Or maybe I'm right. Hold on.....~thinking~.....Okay. I think I have it. Rand felt like he was betraying Elyane, the _first_ one he fell in love with, and felt guilty about being inlove with the other two (not only bc of Elayne), and just really confused in general. hah! :)) He also tried to keep them away from him because he didn't want them to get hurt (either by him when he finally goes insane or by the Dark One's 'people' for being the girls he's in love with or even by accident). Rand is now at peace with the situation IIRC. Vanyel, fell in love with 'Lendel and became incredibly confused. At some point (I'm not sure exactly when) he became at peace with the situation and he and 'Lendel eventually Lifebonded. Then Van fell in love with and Lifebonded to Stefan. That got him kinda confused again (thanks to certain dreams) and guilty, and he felt like he had betrayed 'Lendel by FILW Stefan. Fortunately, he was at peace by morning (this time). (While at Forst Reach) He did consider trying to keep Stef away from him when they were back at Haven, and he did try to keep Stef from coming with him when he left to hunt Leareth (both to keep Stef safe and for a couple of other reasons which I can't quite recall at the moment). Can you see the similarities, or was I too confusing? It's late and I can't really tell. someone wrote: >*Speaking of a guide, here is a question of mine. is there any sort >of guide of misty's as to all of the terms throughout all of her valdemar >books? Well, there's the...what were they called? I own one and I can't even think of the name of it. The Concordances! Of course! How could I have forgotten? There's the Arrows of the Queen Concordance. It's like a dictionary and covers all (or most of) the stuff from the Talia books. It even has all the names of the mentioned Heralds and Trainees and Courtiers and everything. And the LHM concordance is out now too. I don't know if that one gives definitions for the Tayledras words though. And there's a list of definitions for some Shin'a'in words and phrases at the end of Oathbreakers. It only has the ones actually used in the book though. All right, I'm going to bed now. Good night everyone. Zzzzzzzz..... Stars light your path, Sorana S. Stargem Herald-trainee, %-+AT+-"So free for a moment High Priestess to the Goddess%-+AT+-Lost somewhere between the earth and of Unicorns, %-+AT+-the sky Goddess of Flions, %-+AT+-So free for a moment Knight of Amber and Marigold,%-+AT+-Lost because I want to be lost Knight of the OOUH %-+AT+-Don't try to find me" --The Martinis http://www.angelfire.com/wa/mylagoon/index.html _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:39:46 +0100 From: "Alexia/Sabrina" To: Subject: Re: Writing about stuff you haven't experienced Message-ID: <01ba01beb0c7$962462a0$59ca28c3-+AT+-oemcomputer> >True. But my point is that you also can't know how it feels, even if you have lived through it. You aren't the other person, and you will never ever be able to experience something (even the exact same situation) as they would. You may have lived through something similar, but you still wouldn't know how they felt any better than anyone else. In fact, I would say that an empathetic and observant friend would have a better chance of understanding someone than a stranger who has had a similar experience.To get out of the emotionally charged example of abuse, let's look at something else: a movie. You and your best friend go to a movie. Imagine that you both grew up together, have had many similar experiences in your lives, etc. You both see the same movie at the same time. Do you both feel the same way about the movie? Do you have the same emotional reactions? How do you know that you do? You can't. I think that the whole point of why people can understand or not understand abuse is because it is SO emotionally charged. It is one thing where allegories just don't work because logic doesn't tend to function there. Abuse is a realm of pure emotion... and one of the reasons why group-therapy is so successful in abuse cases is because, though the cases are all different, the feelings are almost completely the same. An outsider to this, no matter how symapthetic and sensitive will never understand it because they've never felt it. A person who has suffered abuse will have an automatic-level of understanding with another victim. It like eating disorders - obesity and anorexia seem hugely different... but an obese person will understand an anorexic person much better than the lay person. The cicrumstances and different but the FEELINGS are the same. And those are what matter. Not why just that both people feel that way. > >We never really can experience other people's thoughts and emotions directly, so we never really *know* what others are thinking or feeling. We can only guess, based on observation. The event that might devestate one person could be trivial to another. Here's a more emotionally charged>example: My best friend and I broke up with our respective significant>others at the same time. In both cases, it was the SO who made the suggestion. My best friend was very badly hurt and upset and it took her>several years to get closure and move on. I, on the other hand, went>home, cried a few tears, got a good night's sleep, and was fine the next >morning. I can understand what my friend went through, not from any>personally lived experience, but because I know her and have observed her>long enough to know how she thinks and feels. In fact, if I went by the>shared life experience, I would never even come close to understanding>her, because the experience did not affect us the same way. The worst>thing I could have done would have been to assume that my experience of breaking up with someone I loved was going to give me any insight into her experience of the same event. I think the thing here is that abuse is VERY different. It doesn't come under the same realm of things as break-ups. From my experience in the mental health field, people get to be very close friends because they understand EXACTLY how the other feels. The cases are entirely different, but the feelings are the same. This is often the case with abuse. I think the problem with comparing a break-up to how things happen in abuse is because break-ups are a natural part of life... abuse is NOT. Abuse is in the realm of mental illness which has totally different 'rules' than things that are expected parts of life... like going to the movies and breaking up. The were two people who became very close as a result of being able to discuss the fact that their feelings around abuse were exactly the same - now, these people wouldn't feel breakups the same way, or movies... but the abuse- yes. I'm not saying there's logic here, I'm just saying that this is what happens and I've observed it time and time again. I just don't think the things you're using to draw your points from are valid things to draw parallels with abuse from. Eating disorders, PTSD disorder... anything in the realm of mental health, I'd agree with, but things that everyone experience are not valid for a parellel here IMHO. > >I have had people who claimed, on the basis of shared experiences, that>they "knew exactly how I felt." While I could accept that statement as a>well-meant expression of sympathy, it was nevertheless a laughably false>statement. In almost every case, their subsequent actions and words>(based on "knowing" how I felt) were clear proof that they had no clue>what was going on in my mind. I frequently find myself wanting to ask >people, "if you know how I feel right now, why are you doing exactly the>wrong thing?">Anyway, to bring this back to writing, I think that writers who do the>equivalent of saying "I know how you feel" based on their own experiences run the risk of projecting themselves onto an audience that may not, in>fact, share their feelings. I think coming out with that statement is a load of BS BUT it is often demonstrated that people with eating problems, abuse problems, will immediately find common ground in that and will come to the conclusion that they do know how the other felt... not EXACTLY, but very close to it. Self-harmers and eating disorder sufferers are very good examples for seeing this in- attending a good grou-therapy session shows just how much the people having in common in terms of feelings. They don't deal with things the same way, have the same case history... but they FEEL the same things. Emotional territory IS common in a lot of cases. This is what Iv'e observed from my work in mental health fields but I appreciate that it is not always the case and this is just what I've observed and read about etc. I think it is more the rule than the exception though. >Using personal experience may be a useful>stepping stone to a more general and sharable experience, but it can't be>the entirety. You still have to generalize, to find the part of your>experience that will be shared by a large number of people and is not just>you. Obviously, if you are not working from the basis of personal experience, you are not likely to fall into the "I've been there and this is what it's like" trap. Perhaps, if you have no experience (including secondary or tertiary) with your subject, you will not be able to get much of a reaction from your audience, but if you are observant, thoughtful, and empathetic, you will probably do a pretty good job. If you generalise, you lose the emotion. A generalise scene in something as emotional as abuse or eating disorders will never ring true because it is the emotion that shows the truth of it. Thinking that the case situation is the all important bit is the mistake- but writing using the emotions will result in a 'true' effect. A good example is seeing things written when thinking of past memories and comparing them to just writing something general on the subject= the pieces might be the same in plot but one has emotion because the writers is focusing on remembering how they felt and is projecting that. The other is an intellectual exercise and abuse, etc is anything but intellectual, which is what a lot of mental health professionals don't seem to understand. They have all the information but not understanding, no matter how long they've worked with patients in this field. BTW, this is all just my opinions and thoughts. I'm not claiming it to be 'the truth'. I'm saying that this is what I believe firmly and these are the reasons and the arguments why. This is why I think this and why _I_ believe it to be true. Guess an obmisty would be good Um... I wanted to bring up the old thread of favourite books/series again... I always find it interesting to see what everyone's preferences are in terms of that. I'd say By the sword, then Magic's Pawn for me... Anyway... Long-winded sheep to all Alexia ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1987 **********************************