MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1989 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: King Daren? - Reply by EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com 2) Mad Tom of Bedlam by Joey Burgess 3) Bedlam, Companions, and Casting by dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph 4) =?iso-8859-1?Q?replying_to_hetero_assumptions_w=2F_rulers?= by Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com 5) Re: King vs. Queen/Companions/Voice Casting by Paige 6) Re: Mad Tom of Bedlam by Kenneth Allen Hyde 7) Re: Mad Tom of Bedlam by Alia Rose 8) ?/hope by "Mark Severson" 9) of poems and characters.... by "Marv Watson" 10) of poems and characters.... by stephanie coombes <106365.1242-+AT+-compuserve.com> 11) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_of_poems_and_characters=2E=2E=2E=2E?= by Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com 12) Companions by Abigail Laughlin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:54:59 EDT From: EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: King Daren? - Reply Message-ID: <511d59e8.248dfc23-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 6/7/99 11:52:46 PM Central Daylight Time, eugenem-+AT+-noao.edu writes: << Does anybody know of any examples of > same-gender pairings that were involved in 'ruling' an area? How about Moondance and Starwind? I know it's more guardianship rather than ruling, but... >> Along The Same line, How about Van and Stephan, A.D. The forest of sorrows.. Its in during their life, but it counts i think, They have gaurdianship and control of that land, and use its resources to protect valdemar... ~~Justyn EarthSong~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 23:06:47 PDT From: Joey Burgess To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Mad Tom of Bedlam Message-ID: <19990608060648.70753.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Mad Tom of Bedlam is the name of a song by Tempest on the Serrated Edge cd. these words are almost exactly (except Satan instead of Pluto's kitchen) the lyrics. This cd was partly enspired by and partly inspiration for the serrated edge series, according to the firebird arts catalog, along with several other Tempest cds and Lief Sorbye's solo cd (whose name escapes me at the moment). Wow....still less than 30 days, and now three posts...i'm getting talkative all of a sudden! Taliesin Pereldan, Impressed of Gold Rhiannon, Fire-Lizard Journeyman Harper >Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:15:19 +0800 >From: "You" >To: >Subject: SW/KoGS >Message-ID: <00a201beb0b5$8ba88980$eba815a5-+AT+-knbwubxl> >Jadzia asked about the quote? >I always figured it to come from Yeats. Wait, I'll check... it's from this >song, but it doesn't say who's it by... > >Bedlam Boys >------------- >For to see mad Tom of Bedlam, >ten thousand miles I'll travel. >Mad Maudlin goes on dirty toes >for to save her shoes from gravel. > >Still I sing bonny boys, bonny mad boys: >Bedlam boys are bonny, >for they all go bare and they live by the air >and they want no drink nor money. > >I went down to Pluto's Kitchen >for to get me food one morning, >and there I got souls piping hot, >all on the spit a-turning. >My staff has murdered giants; >my bag a long knife carries >for to cut mince-pies from children's thighs >with which to feed the fairies. > >The spirits white as lightning >would on my travels guide me; >the moon would shake and the stars would quake >whenever they espied me. > >And when that I'll be murdering >the man in the moon to a powder, >his staff I'll break and his dog I'll shake, >and there'll howl no demon louder. > >By a knight of ghosts and shadows >I summoned am to tourney >ten leagues beyond the wild world's end; >methinks it is no journey. > >Of forty bare years have I >twice twenty been enraged, >and of thirty been three times fifteen >in durance soundly caged; >Still I do sing any food, any feeding, >feeding, drink or clothing? >come dame, come maid, be not afraid: >poor Tom will injure nothing. > >With a host of furious fancies >of which I am commander, >with a flaming spear and a horse of air >through the wilderness I'll wander. >I know more than Apollo, >for oft when he lies sleeping >I see the stars at bloody wars >in the wounded welkin weeping. > > >From the hag and the hungry goblin >that into rags would rend ye, >may the spirit that stands by the naked man >in the Book of Moons defend ye. >That of your five sound senses >may you never be forsaken, >nor wander from yourselves with Tom >abroad to beg your bacon. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:15:54 +0000 From: dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bedlam, Companions, and Casting Message-ID: Heyla, I know that I have heard "Bedlam Boys", but from an even different source. I can't be sure of this (so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) because I never owned the album, just listened to it. Anyways, I am almost positive that Steeleye Span performed a version of the song. Can someone verify/clarify this? Size of horse vs. rider is basically irrelevant, especially if one or both of them is/are well trained. For example, young children are able to compete in barrel racing on comparatively large horses. Companions and Heralds definitely qualify under the "both" category. What has been done regarding the casting of Companions? Are people figuring on some form of animation or the use of live horses? If horses, what breed? I would vote for Arabians. Sara, Practical Hedonist ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 99 08:55 EDT From: Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?replying_to_hetero_assumptions_w=2F_rulers?= Message-ID: <375d1415replying to hetero assumptions w/ rulers*-+AT+-m400gw.wiley.com> as ladyknight of the fairgrove said: >"My .02 on the subject: >I agree with you on this, and would add that there seems to be a >homophobic bias in English as well, in that the ruling pair is assumed >to be male+female. There seems to be no provision for same-gender >rulers...granted, if the rule is passed by primogeniture or some other >sort of 'in the blood' inheritance, this scheme for preserving the local >power structures is deep-sixed by same-gender associations; and replying to nighteagle's comments [snippet below]: >Thank you very much, I don't think I could have said that any better. I >have, for some time now, resented the heterosexual 'standards' of the >general population. Many say it is because it is "right" or "the way it is >supposed to be." >That's a load of sheep dung! >I feel that society chooses to ignore thier own statistics that over 98% of >the reported cases of abuse and violence (sexual, domestic violence, rape >and murder, etc.) are committed by heterosexuals and that heterosexual >couples rear over 90% of the children who are victims of 1st and 2nd >generational incest ... now, my 2c --> for those of you who live on the eastern coast of the us, this may sound familiar, but for those of you who don't: a few years ago (1 1/2 or 2?) there wasa big story that got local & national coverage when a gay couple went to court, suing for the right to adopt their foster son as a couple, stating that it was discriminatory to impose twice the fees on them (ie: 1 person adopting, then the 2nd person having to go thru the same procedure) -- they won their case. while the religious right nattered on about how their son will grow up all twisted, they ignored a few items: these men, in their mid to early 30s, were high school sweethearts. their commitment to each other has lasted for 15 years -- not too shabby, considering the rate of divorce among hetero couples. also, this is the only family their son has ever known. they got him as foster parents when he was only 4-6wks old, he was hiv positive & horribly sick. under their care, these illnesses have almost disappeared. a loving family, no matter how its composed, will do wonders. if this boy had stayed in state care, he'd probably be dead instead of acting like a normal child his age. obmisty: i'd like to see her tackle same-sex rulers in valdemar. specifically (hint, hint) i've been wondering about kris. why couldn't he have a male consort? unless both of his sisters were infertile, he wouldn't have to marry to provide an heir, & even under those circumstances, there are still the cousins, collateral lines, etc. it could be done. as for the royal titles, why not discard queen /king & replace it w/ royal consort. so, you'd have queen selenay & her consort; king xxxx & his consort? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:55:19 -0400 From: Paige To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: King vs. Queen/Companions/Voice Casting Message-ID: <375D20C7.EC29F2AE-+AT+-sympatico.ca> Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > > On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Paige wrote: > > > I doubt that there are many (if any) examples of someone marrying a > > Queen and becoming King. I haven't seen this said anywhere on the list > > so sorry if I'm repeating, but there is a reason for this Queen/Price > > business. It's called "rank". A King has a higher rank (thus more > > authority) than a Queen. > > Not really. A queen regnant has exactly the same rank as a king regnant. > The confusion comes about because we also use (due to historical reasons) > the plain form "queen" for two very different roles: queen regnant (who is > not outranked by anyone, if the country is a true monarchy) and queen > consort (who is the wife of a king regnant). Seeing as this was heading into "off-topic land", and seeing as how we received a post warning against off-topic and overly long posts, I decided to give an explanation that would be understood by the majority in the simplest terms possible. I went so far as to recall how the subject was taught to me, and during a conversation with my father, asked him how I should explain it. Most people who are not from a Monarchy (such as my father) or a Constitutional Monarchy (such as myself) are not really interested in the long explanation. I felt that if they wanted more than bare facts they could go to the Royal Family's web site. OB Mistys (since this has become truly off topic) dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph wrote: > Size of horse vs. rider is basically irrelevant, especially if one or > both of them is/are well trained. For example, young children are > able to compete in barrel racing on comparatively large horses. > Companions and Heralds definitely qualify under the "both" category. I began my riding "career" at 4 years of age on an 18 hh Arabian. I never had a problem with him at all. However, at summer camp they tried to put me on a little fat pony and my legs couldn't make proper contact on him. > What has been done regarding the casting of Companions? Are people > figuring on some form of animation or the use of live horses? If > horses, what breed? I would vote for Arabians. Well, if it was going to be a miniseries rather than a movie and unless it had a very high budget I'd rather see Lipizzaner (sp?) Stallions. They're already white and trained to do quite a few things that most horse aren't. However, if it was a high budget movie/series, I'd completely agree with you. Arabians are prettier :-) Nope, those weren't OB Misty's, let's try again :-) Ummm...Oh I know. Somebody from another group (where we're having the same casting difficulties as here) asked who you would get to *voice* the characters. Say, instead of a movie/series it was an audio book, a radio show, or an animated series. You know, maybe you've thought of someone that doesn't have the right "look" but you still think they're the "right" person for the job. -- Paige Proud to be Outlandish Royal Defender of The Brat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:59:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Mad Tom of Bedlam Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Joey Burgess wrote: > Mad Tom of Bedlam is the name of a song by Tempest on the Serrated Edge cd. > these words are almost exactly (except Satan instead of Pluto's kitchen) the > lyrics. The poem is older than that. I am almost positive that it was one of the romantics, in particular, I think it was Yeats. I tried to find it in my poetry anthologies, but it wasn't there. I'll have to check in a complete Yeats collection. For that matter, the story of Tom o' Bedlam is very, very old. He is, essentially, the same character as Thomas the Rhymer or the first part of the Tamlin legend, who is swept away by the Queen of Faerie (or Hell, depending on the version) and then abandoned (or in some versions, rescued--there actually seem to be two major legends that are used as the second half), years after all he knew has died and passed away. Other classical poems that refer to this story are "La Belle Dame sans Merci" and "The Man Who Dreamed of Fairyland" (the former by Keats, the latter by Yeats). "The Lovesong of the Wandering Aengus" also builds on this theme of a human man who wanders through the world, seeking his faerie love. All of this, of course, is simply building on the rather common theme of humans trapped in Faerie, where time passes differently. This theme is found in countless English and Gaelic folktales and even crops up in more modern stories such as Rip Van Winkle. Incidently, I'm not sure if this is based on an actual legend (I suspect it is), but Barry Hughart incorporates a Thomas the Rhymer type into his Chinese-legend-based book, "The Eight Skilled Gentlemen." Given that Hughart is a specialist and scholar of Chinese legendry and folkways, I would not be surprised to find that the story he uses is an authentic Chinese legend. Hmmm. You know, I will have to ask around, but it occurs to me that "bedlam" may be a Middle English borrowing of the French "Belle Dame" with the l and d metathesized. It would make sense since it would then make Tom o' Bedlam into Tom of the Belle Dame (the Fair Lady's Tom), which is what the story is all about. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:38:58 PDT From: Alia Rose To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mad Tom of Bedlam Message-ID: <19990608163900.68358.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> taliesan said: >Mad Tom of Bedlam is the name of a song by Tempest on the Serrated Edge cd. >these words are almost exactly (except Satan instead of Pluto's kitchen) >the >lyrics. This cd was partly enspired by and partly inspiration for the >serrated edge series, according to the firebird arts catalog, actually, ive heard this song in a variety of places and variations, i believe it is a scottish/celtic/irish folk song/poem. the version i know the best is a little different, its shorter for one thing. its sung by Double Indemnity, and band that hits the ren faires, and it EASILY takes over your brain and wont leave. i thought yall might want to see a different version, so i wrote it down too. this version is called Tom O' Bedlam, or, Mad Merry Maudlin ------------- to find my Tom of Bedlam, ten thousand miles I'll travel. Mad Maudlin goes on dirty toes for to save me shoes from gravel. still I sing bonny boys, bonny mad boys: Bedlam boys are bonny, for they all go bare and they live by the air and they want no drink nor money. I know repent that ever for Tom was so disdain-ed Me wits are tossed, since him i crossed which makes me thus go chain-ed Still I sing... I went to Pluto's Kitchen for to beg some food one morning, and there I got so spiking hot, while on the spit a-turning. Still i sing... there i took up a cauldrin, where i boiled 10 thousand harlots those still aflame, i drank the same with a heath to all such varlots Still i sing.... My staff has murdered giants; my bag a long knife carries for to cut mince-pies from children's thighs with which to feed the fairies. Still i sing... No gypsy, slut, or doxy, shall win me mad Tom from me Ill all night, with the stars ill fight the fray shall well be come me Still i sing... So drink to Tom O' Bedlam Fill all the seas and barrels, Ill drink it all well brewed with gall, and maudlin drunk ill quarrel. Still i sing... Still i sing... ---------------- i wonder how many versions there are floating around. i suppose i need an obmisty after that.....ummm....actually, i didnt like the bedlam's bard books. i just didnt really like the way she did the elves. that is an opinion, so please no flaming sheep! of course, im not overlly fond of the LHM books either. i just didnt like the storyline, i liked Van ok. i tried to post this earlier, but i think the computer ate it, so i apologize if you get 2 copies of this! ************************************* Alianora Rose Royal Defender of the Brat ICQ # 1372207 ************************************* Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. -Jade _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:22:30 -0700 From: "Mark Severson" To: Subject: ?/hope Message-ID: <003f01beb1db$dfe16f40$9b6cb4cd-+AT+-janltcea> I do hope we are not going to see the group once again go the route of straight basing - something that seems to happen here on a fairly regular basis. If that is were some of you are going please note it in your subject line so that those of us not interested in said material can pass over your posts. Thank you. Mark Severson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:27:31 -0700 From: "Marv Watson" To: Subject: of poems and characters.... Message-ID: <015401beb1dc$931e23a0$26e930cc-+AT+-skywolf> Hello ev-er-y-bo-dy! say it's been a while. Anyhow, i thought i'd post and say hello, and please forgive me if the topic's rather old, but oh well, i'm not coherant today. Dawn Woodard said: <> Now to tie into that, Anne McCaffery has Simeon in the _City Who Fought_ book, recite to Channa a poem. The beginning is, "We who with songs beguile your pilgrimage . . .(it skips to the end) ...and softly through the silence beat the bells, Along the golden road to Samarkand" (72). Ok, anyone know what this poem is called, or if it es even a poem at all, or where I can find the entire thing? It sounds like a beautiful poem, and I'd like to hear the entire thing. Now on to my second question, kinda-sorta Misty related. In my english class, we have this paper to write, an analysis of some thing or another. We all got to stick our hands in a bag and pull out topics. I got the topic of homosexuality in literature. The basics behind it, is that in school, the books picked for us to read very very rarly have any mention of homosexuality in them. The closest we got this year was passages in James Joyce's _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_. All of the books placed upon my english classes required reading list had little to no help for me. Now, my question to you, listsibs, it that do you have any idea as to where I can find some books to make a start of this project with? Now to tie this in with Misty, and there fore not get flamed, I have seen that Misty and only a few others (Fiona Patton and Lynn Fwelling) are the authors to write openly about homosexuality in their books. I kind of hope to some how tie in the fact that sci-fi/fantasy authors are more open to taking chances, but seeing as that my english teacher is a very traditional guy, I know I'll need some good, "literature" to back up my thesis. So, does anyone know of anyother sci-fi/fantasy authors who have gay characters in their books? There. I'm sorry if I'm not coherant. It's been a weird week. Thanks! Skywolf and Misha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:35:13 -0400 From: stephanie coombes <106365.1242-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: of poems and characters.... Message-ID: <199906081535_MC2-78A8-F4DD-+AT+-compuserve.com> I have read a book called Katcha but i havent got the authors name. i will e-mail it to you soon. it has a good reference to homosexuality in it. Luv Saver ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 99 16:12 EDT From: Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_of_poems_and_characters=2E=2E=2E=2E?= Message-ID: <375d7a7dRe: of poems and characters....*-+AT+-m400gw.wiley.com> homosexuality in sf/f ... misty stuff: --> well, there's lhm (obviously), knight of ghosts & shadows & summoned to tourney (kinda) try "the fire's stone" by tanya huff, also her first quarters book (sing the four quarters?), also alluded to in her blood books try marion zimmer bradley's darkover books ---> darkover landfall, if you can find it, does a bit w/ father valentine & guilt; best example of social assumptions about sex & gender is "world wreckers" [ what do you call a hermaphrodite who has switched from one gender to another?] heritage of hastur is also pretty good & sharra's exile. also by mzb (not darkover) was warrior woman in 1985 there was an anthology a few years ago -- i think the title was "swords of the rainbow" edited by eric garber & jewel gomez, something like that. anyway, all of the authors were (well, i guess still are) gay. mark sheperd had an interesting piece, & there was a real funny romance (this is what i get for trying to answer something while away from my library -- arrgh!!). tanya huff also had a piece in there, "swan's braid" try cyteen by cj cherryh (big tpbk) sardonyx net by elizabeth a lynn (kinda), also dancers of arun, watchtower, northern girl (i think) a fall of princes & arrows of the sun by judith tarr there's one overwhelming thing that i've realized while compiling this list (& maybe this will help): the vast majority of these relationships are pretty bad, not exactly healthy. maybe it's because all of the characters have been damaged in someway, which they carry over to personal relationships (van, obviously). thoughts guys? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 20:19:27 PDT From: Abigail Laughlin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Companions Message-ID: <19990609031927.8799.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> << What has been done regarding the casting of Companions? Are people > figuring on some form of animation or the use of live horses? If > horses, what breed? I would vote for Arabians. Well, if it was going to be a miniseries rather than a movie and unless it had a very high budget I'd rather see Lipizzaner (sp?) Stallions. They're already white and trained to do quite a few things that most horse aren't. However, if it was a high budget movie/series, I'd completely agree with you. Arabians are prettier :-)>> I'll object here; Lipizzaners (or, if you prefer, Lipizzans) are not white, they are grey, not all are grey, though most turn that color shortly after reaching maturity, and they are not automatically trained to do the complex dressage and airs above the ground to which you refer. An Arabian or Andalusian is just as capable of being trained to do those movements as a Lippizan. Besides which, horses are routinely trained to do all manner of movements for TV and movies. Airs above the ground would have only a limited use for Misty's use of Companions, anyhow; battle scenes, mostly. A better style of training for such horses would be the method used on the Quarter Horse that portrayed Black Beauty in the recent movie. That is more suited to horses that need to seem humanly intelligent and to interact with humans. Personally, I agree with the vote for Arabians, since Arabs have the sleek, graceful build the Companions are described as having. Jody Lee's Companions all look Arabian. I would also vote for grey Arabs rather than albino, since albino horses tend to have red/pink eyes and to look slightly pinkish. If someone could find blue-eyed albino Arabians, it would be a different story. I have seen pictures of blue-eyed albino horses, so it isn't impossible. I have known grey horses who looked completely white, so that would not be impossible. Andalusians and Lippizans are also pretty, but not so trimly built as a rule. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Webmaster of the Circle of Stone, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes; http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ - The Labyrinth _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1989 **********************************