MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1992 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) fluff'n'stuff by Chris Robertson 2) heyla by Chris Robertson 3) Re:braid of various by Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com 4) Re: Tannim? by Alinea 5) New Virus - Heard on news, read in paper by "Mark Severson" 6) Tarma by Paige 7) ADMIN: worm warning by Melanie Dymond Harper 8) Aryenne tries out braiding! by Miranda Warren 9) skywolf's poem question by KATE REYNOLDS 10) alternative characters by "Hill, Susan" 11) Apology for Diana Tregarde by Chris 12) regarding the misties. by "You" 13) very confused by ambermoon starshadow 14) Tregarde, and Homosexuality by dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 03:01:33 PDT From: Chris Robertson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: fluff'n'stuff Message-ID: <19990611100134.17317.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> ********* A pool of water forms on the floor of the Hall Of Mist. From it rises a tall form with brown hair flowing about her shoulders, who is holding a bunch of pohutukawa blossoms in her outstretched hands. [They're red, they're pretty and they grow next to my stream.] "O Goddess of the Water-Borne, in whose domain are the kelpies and selkies, accept this offering as a token of my fealty and my thanks that my prayer to become a naiad found favour in thy eyes." Stepping out of the pool, she shakes a few stray droplets from her hair and clothes [adding to the general misty atmosphere] and advances further into the Hall... ********* A few thoughts on the same-sex ruling pair thing - one reason there aren't/haven't been any is that none of the countries except Valdemar seem to have been particularly enlightened on that subject so a homosexual ruler would probably have to make a marriage of convenience to keep up appearances of obeying his country's customs. Also heterosexual relationships are politically useful because they can be made official, thus providing a means of making some handy international alliances. [Are same-sex marriages able to be contracted in Velgarth?] Then, even if there was a same-sex pairing on the throne somewhere, if there were any rebellious types around, when they died and they had an adopted child to succeed them, the rebellious types could say they had a better claim to the throne because the Heir wasn't of the blood and they were, being [say] fourth cousins. Actually that'd be a nice premise for a new trilogy... My favourite series is the Mage Winds - is it jsut me or is that not terribly popular around here? However my favourite book would ahve to be By The Sword. Shadowlight Absentee Naiad Bearer of an enchanted biscuit tin which is always full of chocolate-filled pastry sheep [or any other sheep-shaped edible you could desire - help yourself] ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 03:45:33 PDT From: Chris Robertson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: heyla Message-ID: <19990611104534.14488.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla fellow kiwi Merrin! Nice to hear from you, and you'd be surprised at the number of kiwis - i think there's a couple of others lurking around and i currently have a friend who's trying to get on the list but having problems *wide band mindCall* any help on that would be appreciated, if you have help email me off-list or add it to a post I'm at high school [last year there! Yippee! Yippee!] up in Auckland and currently completely unsure about my life path regarding next year. So...bring on the obMisty.... Tarma and Kethry were a wee bit stiff and decrepit at the beginning of BtS but they didn't look like they were going to drop dead any time soon. Has there been any concrete evidence since as to their continued existence, or not, as the case may be? Shadowlight Absentee Naiad Sorry for her bad habit of two-posts-in-one-day Bearing candy-floss sheep in divers colours ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 99 09:10 EDT From: Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:braid of various Message-ID: <37610c4dRe:braid of various*-+AT+-m400gw.wiley.com> shadowlight wrote : Tarma and Kethry were a wee bit stiff and decrepit at the beginning of BtS but they didn't look like they were going to drop dead any time soon. Has there been any concrete evidence since as to their continued existence, or not, as the case may be? --> for more on tarma, read storm breaking (near begining -- chpt 2?) where a sword sworn talks to karal, & says that her kin has left a mark on him because he's lined up everything that he'd need to use as a weapon right where he could reach. my *guess* is that this is tarma, because the kin she's referring to is kero. shadowlight also wrote: A few thoughts on the same-sex ruling pair thing - one reason there aren't/haven't been any is that none of the countries except Valdemar seem to have been particularly enlightened on that subject --> ummm ... i remember a passage from mpromise where tran tells van that people are referring to gays as shaych; in his opinion, that's because people can't call the highest ranking herald in the circle a pervert. also, in mprice, someone relates (medren?) that stef got into so many fights once he hit adolescence that breda talked about assigning him to a healer apprentice as a case study. i never got the feeling that any country/group besides the tayledras/shin'a'in/kaleda'in were exactly *enlightened*. valdemar may be a bit better than say, rethwellen, but i wouldn't go so far as to say they're enlightened. altho, karal refers (storm warning?) to pairings (hetero & homosexual) in the priesthood, and to solaris' maxium that you shall force no one. ambermoon wrote: I'm curious how much the "no one true way" rule affects laws that apply to the whole country. Or how much is done to protect the rights of minors. In MPawn, Vanyel outlines how if his father knew he was shay'a'chern, he'd be shipped off to a priestly order and because he was underage there would be nothing anyone could do. In AotQ, after Talia is horrified by the memory she received from Neave, Elcarth tells her how the Queen is working to make those situations disappear, but it's slow going --> hate to say it, but i think that velgarth is much like our own world in the sense of protecting minors. some places do it very very well, but others ... as much as we'd like such things like sexual abuse of children to disappear forever, they're still here with us (i personally advocate castrating child molesters at the neck -- immediately!). such things as van being shipped off to be "cured" of being shaych are present today: there was an article in a newspaper in the last year (?) that recounted the experiences of a woman who, as a teenager, was put into an aversion-therapy program to "cure" her of being as lesbian (fyi: she wrote a book about this, & i think it was called "the last time i wore a dress"). as far as child abuse, the last i'd heard was that thailand's #1 growth industry is ... child sex. derrick wrote: On another issue of homosexual characters in sci-fi/fantasy it isn't right out mentioned, but hinted at sevearl times through the series, but Tanya Huff's character Vicky Nelson is bisexual I believe. So if you are looking for a reference to a character who is bi but doesn't let that fact become an overpowering part of the story she is one you could mention. --> really, where? i've read all of the blood books, several times, & i never got that impression. i was thinking more about tony & henry. page ref pls? (or even a scene) whew, i'm exhausted. sorry it got so long, but there's so much to say. ____________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:56:02 -0400 From: Alinea To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tannim? Message-ID: <37611572.38377891-+AT+-geocities.com> > I just caught this reference to Tannim - is this the "dark stranger" that is > marginally psi at the dance that Di gets help from? I dunno, but there's a reference to Di in _Chrome_Circle_. I've yet to read more Di books then just _Burning_Water_ (I *knew* I got the wrong one first!), but I should get more soon... Alinea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:19:40 -0700 From: "Mark Severson" To: Subject: New Virus - Heard on news, read in paper Message-ID: <000901beb41d$d486ae00$9d6cb4cd-+AT+-janltcea> Greetings all, or at least whom ever is still reading the email I send. Per this mornings news broadcast and in the Oregonian there is a new virus which is being spread via email. This is a worm virus which will destroy files on your computer. If you receive a email with the following - Hi, (recipient's name). I received your e-mail and I shal send youi a reply ASAP. Til then, please look atthe attached zipped docs. Bye The attached file is Zipped_files.exe. This is the worm program. Do not open the file. Delete it and you will not be infected. Mark Severson markttz-+AT+-eoni.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:15:09 -0400 From: Paige To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Tarma Message-ID: <3761360D.B6ACB129-+AT+-sympatico.ca> Adrianne.Cook-+AT+-wiley.com wrote: > > shadowlight wrote : Tarma and Kethry were a wee bit stiff and decrepit > at the beginning of BtS but they didn't look like they were going to drop > dead any time soon. Has there been any concrete evidence since as to their > continued existence, or > not, as the case may be? > --> for more on tarma, read storm breaking (near begining -- chpt 2?) where a > sword sworn talks to karal, & says that her kin has left > a mark on him because he's lined up everything that he'd need to use as a > weapon right where he could reach. my *guess* is > that this is tarma, because the kin she's referring to is kero. Tarma makes a much earlier appearance in the Winds Trilogy. I believe it's in Change, when the K'Leshya arrive and the Leshya Sworn are gathered as "proof" that the "new" clan are welcome. When Elspeth looks at the veiled sworn she notices that they are shimmering and that they are not entirely of this word. :So we are not: one of them says and an ice blue eye winks at her then the voice again says :Be at peace, little sister in power, student of my student: (or something to that effect I don't have the book handy but I've read it about 10 times) the figure is Tarma, her student was Kero, Kero's student was Elspeth. As for Keth, I can only assume that she's dead. -- Paige Proud to be Outlandish Royal Defender of The Brat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:43:56 +0100 (BST) From: Melanie Dymond Harper To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: worm warning Message-ID: <199906111743.SAA13301-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Yet another worm is making the rounds, this one appearing in messages that say: "Hi (recipient's name). I have received your e-mail and I shall send you a reply ASAP. Till then, take a look at the attached zipped docs. Sincerely, (sender's name)." The zipped attachment is where the worm resides, and it's apparently about 200K in size; the listproc here won't pass messages that large, so you shouldn't have any problems with list mail. Mel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Miranda Warren To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Aryenne tries out braiding! Message-ID: <19990611180241.22607.rocketmail-+AT+-web217.mail.yahoo.com> Elsa wrote: > WHA~HAAAAT?!?!?! *looks dazed* Someone who > doesn't like Worf? The world > is grinding to a halt, right? Have aliens landed in > my backyard? > *g* Sorry, it's just that everyone I know adores > Worf, esp. my best > friend, and it's kinda strange to think about > someone not liking him... > (Wait until I tell Janine!! Mwahaha!!) Worf is da man!!! All hail Worf! ::shakes out of her DS9 daze:: oh...sorry. I just love a sensitive Klingon... he he he Ari Anna wrote: ::does a happy dance:: YES!!! I'm not the only one!!! I am soooo addicted to that game it's not funny... Will I ever be able to get in the castle...perhaps not, but that will not stop my need for Bard's Tale!!! Ari Anna also wrote: (Get's in her OBMisty right here) Mine would have to be the one about the two lifebonded heralds but one made a vow to the last woman he was with that he wouldn't be with another, in Sword of Ice. I just thought that one was great! I don't know...I think I read it like 4 times. Rhiannon Shadowsong wrote: Dear Sister, did you have to bring up that man? ::shudder:: Mercury and the sky I swear!! ::twitches:: Sorry, list sibs, that man's poetry just erks me to no end. If you don't have to read him, I wouldn't recommend doing so unless you have a masochistic(sp?) streak... Rhiannon Shadowsong also wrote: Pink? You think you're pink! Red she is!! She's been peeling for two days! ::wiggles eybrows:: And don't make me mention Ricardo.... =) Ambermoon wrote: I think I recall in one of the arrows that the heralds that are doing their rounds in the holderkin territories are to make it clear to any children that seem restless that there is a place for them in Haven. That is all that I can recall from those. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I'll only love you for it! ::smiles:: ::blinks:: I think I did it! I think I actually braided! ::does another little happy dance:: he he he. =) Big sugar coated sheep cookies with painted smiles! Moonbeams to you and yours! Aryenne Winterfire Protector of the Freeze dried sheep flock Wanting to be a member of Canada for world Domination! (I can be a Kentucky Chapter!) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/4736 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:56:13 -0400 From: KATE REYNOLDS To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: skywolf's poem question Message-ID: <990611165613.2488-+AT+-4cty.org> Greetings listsibs -- For a lazy friday afternoon, the resident librarian decided to tackle the poem source questions: Dawn Woodard said: <> The whole song, as posted here previously, appears many places on the Web, listed as a folksong, once as Traditional English variety. I can't find an author anywhere I've looked. Skywolf asked the following: >Now to tie into that, Anne McCaffery has Simeon in the _City Who Fought_ >book, recite to Channa a poem. The beginning is, "We who with songs beguile your pilgrimage . . .(it skips to the end) ...and softly through the silence beat the bells, Along the golden road to Samarkand" (72). >Ok, anyone know what this poem is called, or if it es even a poem at all, or >where I can find the entire thing? It sounds like a beautiful poem, and I'd >like to hear the entire thing. And I think I found it: The Golden Journey to Samarkand, by James Elroy Flecker (1884-1915), and I found it at http://strong.uncg.edu/flecker/sampler.html The end looks different, but I'm not sure that the whole poem is posted, and I'm out of time to look for it today, but if some enterprising listsib wants to follow up, here's a place to start. Bright the day, and bright the weekend! Kate hunter of trivia for the MLML OOUH: Natoli and the blues! Now on to my second question, kinda-sorta Misty related. In my english class, we have this paper to write, an analysis of some thing or another. We all got to stick our hands in a bag and pull out topics. I got the topic of homosexuality in literature. The basics behind it, is that in school, the books picked for us to read very very rarly have any mention of homosexuality in them. The closest we got this year was passages in James Joyce's _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_. All of the books placed upon my english classes required reading list had little to no help for me. Now, my question to you, listsibs, it that do you have any idea as to where I can find some books to make a start of this project with? Now to tie this in with Misty, and there fore not get flamed, I have seen that Misty and only a few others (Fiona Patton and Lynn Fwelling) are the authors to write openly about homosexuality in their books. I kind of hope to some how tie in the fact that sci-fi/fantasy authors are more open to taking chances, but seeing as that my english teacher is a very traditional guy, I know I'll need some good, "literature" to back up my thesis. So, does anyone know of anyother sci-fi/fantasy authors who have gay characters in their books? There. I'm sorry if I'm not coherant. It's been a weird week. Thanks! Skywolf and Misha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:58:24 -0700 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: alternative characters Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E03A033B1-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> > ---------- > From: KATE REYNOLDS[SMTP:SH_KATE-+AT+-4cty.org] > So, does anyone know of anyother sci-fi/fantasy authors who have gay > characters in their books? There. I'm sorry if I'm not coherant. It's > been a weird week. > I think you might find some in Marion's books. I just got started on the Darkover series (oh-my-god-its-FAB-U-LOUS!) She seems to have a whole society that takes sex very less seriously. But she does mention in several of her Renuciate areas about lesbian matches - In The City of Sorcery one of the main characters is legally "married" (there's not a good way to describe it except this person is her legal representative in family and goods and a partner) to one woman, but has a sexual relationship with another. The book itself does not deal with the fact of this relationship or the exsistence of others, but just mentions them as part of the story. Its a wonderful example of characters of "alternative lifestyle" but the book is not about the angst or trials the sexual part of that lifestyle brings... Which may not be what your teacher intended... I dunno. I think you'll find that since Marion's Mists of Avalon is such a WONDERFUL book, and is popular with all genres that she is probably viewed higher than most SF/Fantasy authors by the general press. You will also find that whats-her-name that writes the murder/mystry books about Kay Scarpetta (Title I can think of - Potter's Field)- she's alway's on the best seller list... Patricia someone??? the neice of her main character is gay, and one of the neice's relationship with an unbalanced chick is part of the story line of all her books, but may have been the main story of one of the books. McCaffery's Pern books hit subtlely on male-male sex but never come right out and talk about it - (forgive me its been a while) There's the issue of Jaxom getting mentally caught up in the mating of a green dragon, and its quite explicity explained what happens to the riders in those cases - they merge with the dragons and have sex with the other dragon's rider, from what I understand - but only the queen (gold) dragons are allowed to choose women, even though green dragons are also female...and untill Mirrim is choosen by a green dragon, one must assume all green riders are male, and when green dragons mate, the male riders end up having sex together... thats always intrigued me why she doesn't really get into it.... Also in McC's latests series (Rowan, Damia, D's Children, Lyon's Pride, and now The Tower and the Hive) the last two books have a gay character in them that deals with one of the Lyon's Female Prime's - In Tower&Hive, they actually concieve a child together, and wrestle with the fact that if it weren't for thier Mrdini's mentally influenenceing them, they wouldn't be having sex at all.... If you want to get really kinky - pick some of shakespeare's plays and hopothesize about the sexual orientation of some of the characters i.e Hamlet... Good luck. I don't read enough classical to help you there- I would suspect, given the historically (and religiously) negative view of homosexuality that the books dubed "classics" are not going to deal with the subject in an upright manner - after all, how could a "great work" have a character that is something polite, good, and god fearing people do not discuss. You might look at the classical Roman (and maybe Greek) - they were pretty busy having fun in those baths... Many blessings, Suzi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:23:41 -0700 From: Chris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Apology for Diana Tregarde Message-ID: There's been some understandable confusion over the order of the Di Tregarde books, so here's a clarification: The trilogy, in order of publication: 1) Burning Water 2) Children of the Night 3) Jinx High The trilogy, in the order that they occurred: 1) Children of the Night 2) Burning Water 3) Jinx High As far as I know, it's never stated outright that the second book published actually happens first, but there are various hints to that effect. Di mentions knowing Andre in "Burning Water," and "Children of the Night" is the story of how she meets him. With that in mind, it's obvious that many things have happened to Andre between where "Children of the Night" ends and "Burning Water" begins. Also, Di is more experienced and more mature (and cuter) in "Burning" than she is in "Children", and from her level of maturity and wisdom in "Jinx High" it's apparent that "Jinx" happens not so long after "Burning." It seems that the Di books aren't as popular as the Velgarth books. I love both series, so I hope that more adventures of Di will come someday! Endymion -- Chris Colvin knight-+AT+-sirius.com http://www.sirius.com/~knight/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:53:50 +0800 From: "You" To: "misty" Subject: regarding the misties. Message-ID: <000601beb47c$4a109e20$12a015a5-+AT+-knbwubxl> The form for the Misty Awards'99 is up, at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/8890/poll.html sorry, for the one-liner, but I never knew listsibs would use the previous form (it's OLD) wttw shadowblade ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 20:30:51 PDT From: ambermoon starshadow To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: very confused Message-ID: <19990612033051.43040.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla, Welcome back Elsa! Very nice to see you again, and utterly ironic that I'm leaving tomorrow for two/three weeks, and will be offlist. Happy returns also to Rhiannon, along with mock glares for one who has been to Cancun. Before I leave, I have just about enough time to check this once more tomorrow, so I have a question. *looks around in bewilderment* I just bought Children_of_the_Night and Burning_Water today, and have no idea of what order in which to read them. According to the good old copyright dates, Burning_Water came out before Children_of_the_Night, and in both books it's listed first, but almost all the knowledgeable people onlist seem to be saying the order is the other way around. I *hate* reading books out of order, and know that whichever one I choose is bound to be the wrong one. Could someone please clarify this? I suppose now that I'm finally reading Di Tregarde, I'll have to branch out into Serrated Edge as well . . . I refuse to read any more Bardic Voices books, though . . . trips to bookstores have ensured that I won't lack for reading material this summer ; ). summer sheep to all, Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:53:10 +0000 From: dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Tregarde, and Homosexuality Message-ID: Hi there, First, regarding Children of the Night and Burning Waters: there are references to two other characters in BW other then Andre that would indicate that chronologically CotN occurs first. Trust your listsibs. Homosexuality in Lit. How about Oscar Wilde. I haven't read his work, but from everything I've heard, he was probably homosexual. Homosexuality among the Holderkin: I'm not quite sure it could be called accepted. The indication IIRC was that it occured among the lesser wives, and maybe the male members of that society were not even aware of its existence and so could neither approve nor disapprove the practice. If this is the case, it might explain how homosexual relationships could exist in such a conservative society. Sara ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1992 **********************************