MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2038 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: the last straw and other matters by Gallen 84 2) Monarch's Own Companion by Gallen 84 3) RE: Stuff by "Hill, Susan" 4) Re: Monarch's Own Companion by Amy Trujillo 5) Re: Reincarnation by DNurkTwins-+AT+-aol.com 6) RE: Monarch's Own Companion by "Hill, Susan" 7) RE: Monarch's Own Companion by "Hill, Susan" 8) Re: the last straw and other matters. by MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com 9) Re: the last straw and other matters. by MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com 10) Anthologies by "Tanya Evans" 11) RE: Monarch's Own Companion by kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com 12) RE: Monarch's Own Companion by "Phil COHEN" 13) Re: the last straw and other matters. by Julia Gray 14) Re: the last straw and other matters. by Paige 15) Re: the last straw and other matters. by Kenneth Allen Hyde 16) Re: Monarch's Own Companion by dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph 17) Insanity is spreading... by Emily ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 19:12:25 -0400 From: Gallen 84 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the last straw and other matters Message-ID: <19990801.191226.-24663.1.gallen84-+AT+-juno.com> Heyla all! Alex Boyd wrote: >I'm not sure it's flawless logic to infer from Gwena's experience that all grove-born are young souls. I guess if i really want to know I should >look up the reference again, but I'm pretty sure it's inconclusive. After >all, we don't see Rolan (AoQ)or Taver (LHM) indulging in Gwena's >brand of immature behaviour. Gwena did not have as much experience. While Rolan and Taver were also Grove Born, they had both Chosen before. Before Talia, Rolan's Chosen was the old man. (raps head. AAARGH! Can't remember name!) And before Shavri, Taver had chosen Lancir. Both these people died, so their Companions went out and Chose again, but the Companions already had a lot of experience with their previous Chosen. Gwena was "born" that stormy night in, uh, one of the Arrows. That's all for now I guess. Um, sheep-shaped pools for everyone's back yard! :) Gallen aka Wingsister Silvertalon (Hopeful)Subject of the Great Spork Empire (Hopeful) Member of the Order of Amber and Marigold (Hopeful) Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:59:22 -0400 From: Gallen 84 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: <19990801.191226.-24663.0.gallen84-+AT+-juno.com> (I don't think this message got through, so I'll repost it. Sorry if you get it twice.) Bright the day listsibs: ~*~Gallen stands in the center of the Halls of Misty, with a scared and expectant face, waiting for one of the oldbies to sploosh her. By her are 5 fluffly towels, waiting to be used.~*~ That was my first attempt at fluff. Hope I did alright. Lady Ember wrote: >I'm curious as to where it said that Monarch's Own Companions are >Grove Born? Was it in the Storms Books? I just don't remember >that at all, so I hope it's in one of the books I didn't read rather than >that I wasn't paying attention. =] I believe they mentioned it very, very briefly in Arrows, but I know they said that most MO's Companions were Grove Born in Winds. I don't believe they said anything about it the Storms Books, but I read it so long ago that I can't be sure. Which brings me to my next question. When exactly does the Monarch's Own companion die? Since he/she doesn't die with her/his chosen, but doesn't live forever, (illustrated by Shavri's Taver and Talia's Rolan), when exactly does a MO's companion die. After 2 choosings? Gallen, aka Wingsister Silvertalon (Hopeful)Subject of the Great Spork Empire (Hopeful) Member of the Order of Amber and Marigold (Hopeful) Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:34:24 -0700 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Stuff Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E03A03524-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> Monarch's Owns are first explained in the Arrow's books when Talia begins her training they talk about it. > ---------- > From: Sarah W[SMTP:ladyember-+AT+-email.com] > I'm curious as to where it said that Monarch's Own Companions are Grove > Born? Was it in the Storms Books? I just don't remember that at all, so I > Lady Ember Echosinger > Say, Has anyone ever wondered why it wasn't mentioned in Stef's and Van's conversation at the end of MPrice that Jisa is now Kings own (and Queen)? I'd be very interested in finding out what happened in her life - obviously she has a kid or two, to ensure Van's DNA in the royal line, but we don't ever hear about if Lancir choose her, or Lancir suicided to help Sharvi keep the King alive... Any thoughts? I personally would have liked to see that "choosing" in print. Might make a great short story (HINT HINT to Misty's muse - or even to Misty choosen writer's muse) - The King and Sharvi would have died about the same time, Trev gets crowned, and oh-by-the-way, Jisa, sorry your folks are dead, but you're King's own now, not to mention Queen. Sheep shaped snow cones to those suffering from the US Heat Wave Suzi, who can spare some cool air from Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 20:47:28 -0500 From: Amy Trujillo To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: <37A4F8AD.627A-+AT+-southwind.net> Heyla listsibs! I decided to delurk to add my two cents to the monarch's own companion discussion. Gallen asked: Which brings me to my next question. When exactly does the Monarch's Own companion die? Since he/she doesn't die with her/his chosen, but doesn't live forever, (illustrated by Shavri's Taver and Talia's Rolan), when exactly does a MO's companion die. After 2 choosings? Hmm I think that maybe if the monarch's own lived a full life and there was no pressing need another grove born would come into being just before the death of the MO. At least that would make sense to me...Misty never really gets into that but in both the cases that she has mentioned there was a pressing need for continuity and knowledge of the current events. When Shavri was bonded to Taver the need was obvious, she needed all the resources she could get to deal with Randi's illness and when Jissa was bonded to Taver a huge crisis had just been averted and she would have needed a good advisor for a companion not a new soul or a newly reincarnated grove born. Similarly Talia needed a good advisor even though Rolan could not truly "talk" to her. She also needed all the respect she could gather because of her age and having Rolan would have been a greater advantage than a new grove born. And Valdemar was headed toward another crisis so a new companion would have been at a distinct disadvantage My first idea is a possibility but here is another thought...is it possible that the MO companion is the same companion that started off back in Baron Valdemar's time with just a different name? It is obvious that the companion's can cloud the mind of their chosen and others, ie hiding that Gwena was grove born. What is to stop them from hiding the real age of the MO companion? This companion has to be able to advise and guide the other companions as well as his herald so it would make sense of sorts for him to be the same companion through the ages. Well I think that I have rambled enough, hope that made some sense. Blackberry sorbet sheep on a stick to everyone Amy Ferret Friend Lady of All Things Missing, Especially Socks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 21:40:32 EDT From: DNurkTwins-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: Heyla! Firedance k'Treva writes: <Herald about Firecats and that Companions are reincarted Hearlds. Carefully >reread Karals thoughts about why the Companions don't want the Hearlds to >know that they are reincarted.>> urtho? hehe, sorry i couldnt resist. In a message dated 99-07-27 06:48:53 EDT, Sara writes: << Hi there, Is there any indication that Companions are reincarnated as Heralds? >> yes, well, uhoh.... spoiler space: storm breaking at the end of SB, florian *strongly* hints that he will come back as a Herald, so all deceased Heralds/ Companions are given the choice of coming back as a Herald/Companion or moving on to the Havens. end spoiler alright, well, im back, and after going through the many posts, i am *finally* caught up with the list. :whew!: Zhai'helleva, ¤Silve¤ Co-ruler of the Great Spork Empire Member of the CfWD, Albertan division Appreciator of llamas Demon of Page-flipping (Hopeful) member of the Order of Unsung Heroes, Champion of Skif (Hopeful) member of the Order of Amber and Marigold----- anyone who knows who to contact as to these last two orders, please contact me off-list please, thank you! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:49:55 -0700 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E03A03526-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> Before I get pummled with sheep shaped debris - I meant Jisa bonding with Taver not Lancir. sorry listsibs! -Suzi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:52:10 -0700 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E03A03527-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> > My first idea is a possibility but here is another thought...is it > possible that the MO companion is the same companion that started off > back in Baron Valdemar's time with just a different name? It is obvious > Amy > Ferret Friend > Lady of All Things Missing, Especially Socks > Better - what if (following those with the MOC is really former Monarchs) the MOC is actually Baron Valdemar himself???? OOOOOO wouldn't that be wild? :) toodles, suzi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:37:44 EDT From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the last straw and other matters. Message-ID: <6c901948.24d65e78-+AT+-aol.com> maybe it's not there on the high flight website, but it was there once upon a time at firebirds lackey site. well, to make a long story short was that the Diana tregard novels were the poorest selling series, and some stupid fool was making death threats to misty and Larry because he didn't agree with the type of magic or something similar that misty had Diana tregard practicing ... or that's how i remember it. some one thought that misty was omitting some vital part of a magical ritual or something. well they took the threats seriously as would i. you can never tell these days- witness the awful toll from the barton killings in Atlanta this past weekend. previously, they also had some trouble with a friend that they'd taken in who was having trouble Edith her husband (who turned out to be a psycho and killed their infant/toddler child and then killed himself the court gave the kid to the husband for a visit and she never came back. apparently he was an abuser as well. that's there as well, or was not too terribly long ago when i checked sorry if it's not. It also was in Queen's own, but I don't ha my files handy to look it all up and scan it in here for everyone. This was at least 2 maybe three years ago now, still nothing that you forget! hope this fills everyone in on the bare facts. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 23:21:38 EDT From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the last straw and other matters. Message-ID: Sorry, that should read they took in a friend who was having trouble with her husband ... don't know how that Edith got in there. Guess I'll blame the spell check! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:05:29 -0400 From: "Tanya Evans" To: Subject: Anthologies Message-ID: <002701bedcf0$144858e0$23040618-+AT+-baycty1.mi.home.com> Has anyone read any of the following book (anthologies) and if so did Misty write anything for them? Ancient Enchantress, Witch Fantastic and Castle Fantastic ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:34:03 -0500 From: kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: <05fd40732140289SM1-+AT+-mail.austin.rr.com> Hmm... how to put this in general terms... or would I need a spoiler? (Storm Breaking) ~ S P O I L E R ~ Ooh, nice and pretty. Now, Silve wrote: It would be interesting to see how many of these new Heralds happened to be Heralds in a previous life... Could it be that the amount of "new" Heralds is really just a few a year, and that previous Heralds (or Companions!) continue reincarnating themselves as such? Okay, here's what I'm thinking: There was a core group of Heralds after Baron Valdemar introduced Companions. Initially there was a high growth rate, so that there would be a lot of new souls coming in to become Heralds and Companions. But as the years go by, Valdemar's god (and/or Heralds/Companions) realize that the best Heralds are ones that have served before in a previous life. So the growth rate of "new" Heralds goes down, and more "old" Heralds end up reincarnating to help Valdemar. Any good? I know there's a bit of a flaw in logic there around the slowing of the growth rate, but it works..:grins: All right, I can't resist... Grove-born MOC's might be Heralds or Companions reincarnated a specific number of times, and blessed(?) with special insights. Gwena wasn't a MOC, so she wouldn't have the same maturity or "powers" that the others have. Sheeps to all! Lanen Mirjana Kelran, wanderer of worlds ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:06:05 -0400 From: "Phil COHEN" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: <852567C1.0052A222.00-+AT+-hector.dalet.com> On the subject of the Reincarnation issue... I had a thought. Is it possible that characters from the owlflight trilogy are reincarnations? We certainly seem to have had alot of information from Ms. lackey on the subject lately... maybe its on her mind as plot devices? Or better yet, could we see books that bring us back (my favorite) Vanyel, in a reincarnated form? I'm getting excited just thinking about it... -Phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:16:54 -0500 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the last straw and other matters. Message-ID: <37A5B666.5AEF86C-+AT+-oakton.edu> Alex boyd wrote: > I had wondered if anyone else thought the last few valdemar books weren't as > good. I'm glad I'm not alone. I don't know if you mean the owl books, the storm books or something else, but I can't say I agree with you (and others who have voiced this opinion). I at one time thought along the same line, ... well, read below about the owl books (after spoiler space) :-) OBMISTY (so people who don't want to read the spoiler don't have to scroll to the end): Thanks for whomever mentioned she's going to Great Britain. Does anyone know if it's her first time? I haven't been to wales, so I can't put in my two cents on that, but Scotland....ahhhhh.....(well, except glasgow, apologies in advance)....I thought scotland was beautiful, the people nice, the beer great and the calm at the end of the day almost surreal. Since I think all writers have their own experiences reflected somehow in their work, I'm looking forward to seeing in a few years how this experience will impact Misty's....any thoughts? [i think, by the way, that it could start sneaking into her work now, but what with the time delay between when she writes 'em and when we get them, it could be a while before I, at least, can see any connection) *******POSSIBLE OWL SPOILER (NOT FANCY)****** **** *** ** * I was initially disappointed in the Owl books - but then I thought about it, and I'd say that the owl series is different than her other books - they are obviously intended for a different audience and not as complex as her last series. With this in mind, I think they are good. Compared to other YA fiction, they hold up well. * ** *** **** end spoiler for owl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 12:06:28 -0400 From: Paige To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the last straw and other matters. Message-ID: <37A5C204.25B4579D-+AT+-sympatico.ca> Emily wrote: > > Alex boyd wrote: > > > re: reincarnation of the Monarch's Own's Companion: I would argue in favor > > of the Companion's being a reincarnated Monarch, based on the names > > Rolan/Roald (not quite as obvious as Savil/Sayvil, but still just a > > transposition of one letter and a change in the final consonant). Roald, by > > the way, is a King listed in the timeline, and I'm pretty sure he appears in > > Oathbreakers as the Heir. > > I must disagree with you on this one...MOC's are *always* groveborn. And from > what we've learned of Gwena, they have less experience because they *haven't* > been reincarnated....I can't tell you where in the series that's from, but I > think that tidbit of information was presented after a fight between Elspeth and > Gwena... Actually, it was page 113-114 of WoFury (finally found it) and it goes like this: Van: Your gwenna, for all that she is Grove-born, is just as fallible as any other mortal further down Van says :...I'll tell you what she may "forget" to tell you about the Grove-born....as Companions go - when compared to, say, Sayvil - she is very, very young. No older that you, in fact. She makes all the kinds of mistakes any young thing makes, but because she is Grove-born, she thinks that she will always make the right decision...She forgets that she has no real human experience to base her decisions on: Now, the way I interpret that is that Gwenna is young. I realize that Van starts by saying "about the Grove-born" but he changes to "she" not "they". I think that Gwenna is an exception. Why else would Van say "because she is Grove-born, she thinks that she will always make the right decision"? I would say that the others are more than she is, but she thinks of herself as being on their level because they all come from the grove. Am I making any sense? My only other alternative is to say that Misty made a mistake and didn't word it properly (the usual fallback of someone who disagrees with Misty's logic :-)) Gallen 84 wrote: > > Heyla all! > > Alex Boyd wrote: > >I'm not sure it's flawless logic to infer from Gwena's experience that > all grove-born are young souls. I guess if i really want to know I > should >look up the reference again, but I'm pretty sure it's > inconclusive. After >all, we don't see Rolan (AoQ)or Taver (LHM) > indulging in Gwena's >brand of immature behaviour. > > Gwena did not have as much experience. While Rolan and Taver were also > Grove Born, they had both Chosen before. Before Talia, Rolan's Chosen > was the old man. (raps head. AAARGH! Can't remember name!) And before > Shavri, Taver had chosen Lancir. Both these people died, so their > Companions went out and Chose again, but the Companions already had a lot > of experience with their previous Chosen. Okay, so Talia and Rolan are killed (we're playing "what if" here) and a new GB appears. The one one they are to Choose happens to be a trainee - how in the world are two children supposed to advise the Monarch? I'm going to have to stick to my guns and say that Gwenna is the exception to the rule when dealing with GB's. As Elspeth says in WoC "So I'm a stubborn bitch...Nyah, nyah" :-) > Gwena was "born" that stormy night in, uh, one of the Arrows. Arrows Fall -- Paige Proud Mom of Victoria - 15 months Proud to be Outlandish Royal Defender of The Brat There is no "I" in "TEAM"...but there is an "M" and an "E" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:44:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: the last straw and other matters. Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 1999 MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > he didn't agree with the type of magic or something similar that misty > had Diana tregard practicing .. or that's how i remember it. some one > thought that misty was omitting some vital part of a magical ritual or > something. You know, when I first read about this in TLS, I was amazed. Seriously, my first reaction was "you have *got* to be kidding!" I mean, it just seemed so impossible. And then, I had this same thing happen to me (well, not the death threats). One of my mage characters on IRC was doing some magic, and another person in the same channel said "You can't do that, because Magick doesn't work that way." He actually tried to argue that a fictional character in a totally unreal cyber environment had to follow what he believed were the "rules" for magic in the real world. I was stunned. Fortunately, he was not totally lost to reason and when I pointed, quite politely for me [1], that the mage in question was a fictional character that I had created and had no bearing on "reality," he saw the point. For that matter, there was always the guy who was on a couple of years ago claiming his brother was a "blood path" mage who was sacrificing animals for power and he (the guy on the list) was afraid that he (the brother) was going to try for human soon. The listmember wanted to know if there were any ways to prevent his brother from continuing. The impression that I got was that he was hoping a Guardian would step forward and say "I'll be right over and fix everything." Instead, what he got was a bunch of listsibs saying "if you have evidence, tell your parents and call the police!" So, I guess there really are psychos out there who cannot tell the difference between reality and a story. I still say that it takes a profoundly weak grasp on reality to get that het up about whether a work of fiction is "true" to reality. I mean, it would be like arguing that Misty's lifebonds are not like "real" lifebonds and that she is therefore a bad person. Even if you believe in real-life lifebonds, Misty's versions are fiction and don't have to have any relation to reality. Endnotes: [1] Okay, what I actually said was "HelLO! Doofus! This is not reality, remember?!" But that *was* being nice, for me. =) May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:46:04 +0000 From: dennis-+AT+-jmf.org.ph To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: >From the rain soaked to the heat stroked: ***Dark clouds form over the heat drenched land. To the eye of the curious they seem to resemble sheep. Suddenly, the air is filled with white fluff gently drifting down. Is it snow? No. It's ice sheep sent for the cooling of everyone suffering excessive heat.*** Amy writes, > My first idea is a possibility but here is another thought...is it > possible that the MO companion is the same companion that started off > back in Baron Valdemar's time with just a different name? It is obvious > that the companion's can cloud the mind of their chosen and others, ie > hiding that Gwena was grove born. What is to stop them from hiding the > real age of the MO companion? This companion has to be able to advise > and guide the other companions as well as his herald so it would make > sense of sorts for him to be the same companion through the ages. I think this sounds like a real possibility. Even if the MOC is killed, there wouldn't be any problem about coming back as the next MOC. Seeing as he is always grove born, he is already full grown so there wouldn't need to be any overlap. One dies and the next one steps out of the grove, only it's the same one. And Gwenna was born in Arrows Flight before Talia went off on her internship. Sara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:05:55 -0400 From: Emily To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Insanity is spreading... Message-ID: <37A5DE03.EE556B9E-+AT+-yahoo.com> MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > you can never tell these days- witness the awful toll > from the barton killings in Atlanta this past weekend. That was awful...I just felt that I had to say something...I have a friend who's mother works over there, and another who's father has store over there. I'm not sure what was on news elsewhere, but *here* (not at all far from Buckhead - where the killings were. It's very high-end, really expensive to live in...), everyone's upset. People have been giving blood like crazy to make up for all that was used in saving those who *did* live. It really hits home when it happens somewhere really close. I don't *think* I know anyone that was involved in it, but I probably did. The morning shows on the radio have been talking to people who knew Barton (he was apparently a Boy Scout leader, went to church regularly...all over nice guy...). The newspapers have entire sections dedicated to the aftermath.... Onto a lighter note...I stand rebuked. I *did* assume that MOCs were Grove Born...I still think they are, but I don't know if I have text evidence to back it up, and I don't have time to look it up (schools getting ready to start again...I may have to leave the list if I don't have enough time to read my mail...) Alinea -- Alinea Songwind (a/k/a Artemis, a/k/a Emily) Supreme dictator of Quistar Island Member of OoUH, Champion of Tylendel & Moondance Loyal member of the Great Spork Empire http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon/2571 "WHAT???" -My response to the bear that killed Alinea, the ranger. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2038 **********************************