MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2041 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Stef by Gallen 84 2) Re: braid by Gallen 84 3) Re: Grove Born MOC by T Stafford 4) RE: Stef by "Jennifer Zibart" 5) Re: Monarch's Own Companion by Kerowyn73-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: Grove Born MOC by "angie" 7) Re: Monarch's Own Companion by Kenneth Allen Hyde 8) (no subject) by MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com 9) Groveborn companions by Danielle May Marrone ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:14:02 -0400 From: Gallen 84 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Stef Message-ID: <19990803.180304.-15921.0.gallen84-+AT+-juno.com> The recent tald about Stef and Vanyel coming back made me think of a question. Suppose there really was a need for Vanyel and Stefan again in Valdemar. Would Stef come back as a herald or companion, seeing the heralds come back as a herald or companion, and Tylendel was a herald. Or would he come back as a bard or something else? Gallen, aka Wingsister Silvertalon (Hopeful)Subject of the Great Spork Empire (Hopeful) Member of the Order of Amber and Marigold (Hopeful) Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:35:46 -0400 From: Gallen 84 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braid Message-ID: <19990803.183546.-15921.1.gallen84-+AT+-juno.com> ~*~Gallen runs as fast as she can, but her listsibs still seem to be gaining on her. The sheep-shaped snow that's falling from the sky doesn't slow them down much.~*~ Okay, okay. I was wrong about the MO's Companion. You all have finally convinced me that the MO's Companion is not a "new soul". Normally I would be much more stubborn in my face, but I just happen to be re-reading AotQ, and with the textevd right in front of my face and the convincing reasons you guys have been giving me, I am now officially convinced. Now an obmisty. Aargh! Think, brain, think! Okay, got one. Is it true that there is always divine intervention, or something else, preventing lifebonded people "going" with someone other than their lifebonds? I mean Talia and Skif. But this is not always true in some of the Valdemar stories. Uh, better spoiler this. * * * Spoiler for Sword of Ice, A Herald's Honor * * * * * Martin slept with Lyssa and even made the vow that Lyssa would be his one and only. Shouldn't something have stopped him from making that vow? Or maybe Mickey Zucker Reichert made a mistake. It's certainly possible. Not everyone has the priviledge of being on this list. :) * * End spoiler Little sheep named Rolan for everyone! Gallen, aka Wingsister Silvertalon (Hopeful)Subject of the Great Spork Empire (Hopeful) Member of the Order of Amber and Marigold (Hopeful) Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:10:53 -0700 (PDT) From: T Stafford To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Grove Born MOC Message-ID: <19990803231053.16470.rocketmail-+AT+-web106.yahoomail.com> --- Lizz Norton wrote: Elspeth was Chosen (by Gwenna) when she was 14, and if Gwenna is "no older" than her, that leaves about 14 years that are notaccounted for in which she *could* have been alive. What if she was a dyheli or a kyree or something, and died young? Any thoughts? Liseth > Good theory! My friends and I had thought maybe there was a training period for her before she was "born" in the Grove. (celestial pre-school for Companions, anyone?) It seems like there would be some kind of requirements for Grove born, even new souls. Didn't Vanyel say something about the reason that Elspeth got a Grove born being due to the circumstances? It would seem odd that the Powers would send someone totally inexperienced for such an important role. Anyway, that's my ramble for now! Teresa (who has come out of lurking with a roar and is really curious about all these Orders other people are in) _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:24:30 -0400 From: "Jennifer Zibart" To: Subject: RE: Stef Message-ID: OK, I'm a newbie to this list and to Mercedes Lackey. I have only read her Burning Water, Jinx High and Children of the Night (and the 2 short stories in Werehunter on Diane). I started Born to Run and noticed Deke Kestrel mentioned in it, from Jinx High, - is this common? I can't STAND to read a series out of order, so what order should I read them in to keep from having to ask "Don't I know them from somewhere?" Thanks for any and all help. Jen ____________________________________ Jennifer L. (Dennis) Zibart jenz-+AT+-iglou.com ICQ# 15280908 AIM: JenZibart Cincinnati, OH (To err is human; to purr, feline.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:47:16 EDT From: Kerowyn73-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: Hi, listsibs... In a message dated 8/3/99 11:41:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time, lwhitman-+AT+-nwcomputing.com writes: << About the Grove born as new souls: I don't think that this is the case. In the first Winds book, (sorry, no page numbers, I don't have the book with me at work) when Elspeth approached Quenten, he looked at her with mage sight and saw Elspeth and Skif, both riding Guardian Spirits. The one that Elspeth was on was a much more powerful spirit than Skif's. It appears to me that standard companions are reincarnated Heralds, but GB's are more like the Valdemar equivalent of angels - spirits created to serve the gods. That's why, in my opinion, Gwena had no sense of her own fallibility. Star >> I believe that they are referred to in one place as "avatars"... I believe it was in the MS series, though I do not know the exact reference. Sionen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:15:34 +0800 From: "angie" To: Subject: Re: Grove Born MOC Message-ID: <006601bede4a$26f21ca0$a7d115a5-+AT+-dumbot> About Gwena... :What if she was a dyheli or a kyree or :something, and died young? I don't know. Any thoughts? : :Liseth yes, well. she was probably Grove-Born, hung around in the field for awhile around the Grove, etc etc etc. Grobe-born companions weren't re-inced they were "new" souls right out of the abyss... plus, talia got a funny feeling when she saw Elspeth getting chosen. that would have further got the point through that gwena was grove-born. i don't know what happened to the misties. *sigh* lj? ( ) Wind to thy Wings <==-+AT+-==> Shadowblade, mindmate to Raul | | Fairgove elven archer >>~~~> | | High Priestess of the Goddess of Elves and Unicorns and OOPS | | OOUH Advocate of the entire Urban Fantasy group! :) \/ Singer of Fire, Member of the Mistic Circle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:55:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Kerowyn73-+AT+-aol.com Subject: Re: Monarch's Own Companion Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 Kerowyn73-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/3/99 11:41:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time, > lwhitman-+AT+-nwcomputing.com writes: > Quenten [snip] looked at her with mage sight and saw Elspeth and > Skif, both riding Guardian Spirits. [snip] It appears to me that > standard companions are reincarnated Heralds, but GB's are more like > the Valdemar equivalent of angels - spirits created to serve the gods. and Sionen responded: > I believe that they are referred to in one place as "avatars"... I > believe it was in the MS series, though I do not know the exact > reference. One comment on the first quote: the fact that *both* Companions (i.e. both Gwena who was grove-born and Cymry who was not) appeared as Guardian Spirits is a pretty good indication that there is no conclusion about the "special" nature of Gwena that can be drawn from this scene. Gwena and Cymry may be quantitatively different (Gwena being more powerful), but they are apparently not qualitatively different. Certainly, they do not seem to replicate the difference between mortal and angelic in real-world theology. I think that the second quote brings up a more interesting point. Misty clearly uses "avatar" to mean a special servant of a divine Power. In that sense, if "Guardian Spirit" is just a theological neutral way of saying avatar, then it is conceivable that both Grove Born and Companion Born Companions are avatars. BTW, the first suggestion that Companions are avatar-like creatures is the meeting of Roald and the Star-Eyed in OBreakers. Misty clearly liked the idea and continued to develop it in later books. As far as whether being GB automatically means that the Companion has no real experience (that they are a "new soul"), there is nothing in any of Misty's books that can be taken as clear evidence for this position. There simply is not enough data. Gwena is an exceptional case and cannot be taken as representative. From a statistical point of view, she would be considered "bad data" and have to be excluded from any analysis as an anomaly. The only other data we have on GB Companions is the data on the MOCs. If anything, the stated fact (in AotQ) that the MOC is *always* GB combined with the narratively established scenario of the MOC as a source of wisdom and comfort for the MOH suggests that at least one GB Companion comes from the Grove with both experience and wisdom. I personally like the suggestion someone made that the MOC is always the same "soul," since it fits with all the known phenomena and is by far the simplest suggestion (Occam's Razor is a lovely tool). It would also fit with the idea that all of the original Companions were GB, and yet we don't here stories about how inept and immature they were. As to whether the MOC has an originally human soul, I don't think there's any evidence for that. And I think that there are equally tenable alternate hypotheses which can account for the data. For example, what if GB Companions have the souls of a benevolent ethereal Power in the service of a divine Power? Such a Power might certainly have a wealth of experience with humans and would probably have a good perspective on human history and behavior that would be very useful for a MOC. It would also be possible that such a spirit might be benevolent, but lacking in experience with direct human interaction. This could explain Gwena's occasional oddities. Anyway, those are some thoughts I have on the subject. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:38:47 EDT From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: I've been a queen's own member for several years. I enjoy getting it. Here's the address: QUEEN 'S OWN/MERGING OF THE WAYS the official Mercedes Lackey fan club PO B. 56956 Sherman Oaks, CA 91403 rates are $8/year for printed newsletters $4 year for emailed newsletters. email editor robin ready, HrldSenshl-+AT+-aol.com I had some problems getting the email to go through so maybe you might want to try snail mail. I did finally get the address correct... I'm giving you the corrected version. This was about the time that AOL was having some email problems... You can send for a sample news letter and see if it's what you want. At least you could when I first subscribed the editor has changed recently so that policy may have changed as well. A nice thing about this newsletter that it has lists for other related fandoms and also some of the regional misty clubs. Hope this answers your question. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:25:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Danielle May Marrone To: Mercedes Lackey Fan List Subject: Groveborn companions Message-ID: Before I start I have a question. How does one start a list? I would like to start or find someone to start a list for The Irish Tenors since I have recently discovered I am not the only Irish Tenors fanatic out there. Can anyone help me out here??? Now to the subject: I always had the impression that Groveborn companions only came about for special cases. A monarch's own companion being groveborn and the only groveborn companion seems to have been an unspoken rule. In Gwena's case, Elspeth was going to be the first Herald with a mage-gift to bring mage-gift training back. As a result she needed a special companion with a mage-gift as well (which is why she glowed more brightly in Quenton's sight than Skif's companion). I believe this is why the 'rules' were broken and Elspath was given a special companion. I have no guesses on the age of groveborn souls. -ARI ***************************************************************** Ari and Mandeline dmarrone-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu "Gravity is a habit that is hard to shake off." - Terry Pratchett "I drank what?!" - The last words spoken by Socrates . . . ****************************************************************** In case of emergency, break glass. Scream. Bleed to death. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2041 **********************************