MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2082 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Evil and not so evil! by Kenneth Allen Hyde 2) Re: Evil and not so evil! by Orelalaith 3) Re: Evil and not so evil! by Orelalaith 4) Ta DAAA!! Im BACK! by "Alia Rose" 5) Question of Rings - Arrows Series by "Carrie MacDonald" 6) The Ship Who Searched by "Korendel k'Vesta" 7) Lack of Elvish Creativity by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 8) Re: Ta DAAA!! Im BACK! by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 9) Um...apology! by "Li'nia Stormdancer" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:12:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Evil and not so evil! Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Tim and Tiffanie Gray wrote: > To me, she just seems to be giving the Elves a fatal flaw for no reason > except to make the humans better or so that they won't be all powerful. Well, this is actually not a bad reason. After all, as I understand it, the Elves in her urban fantasy are quite powerful, yet they do not rule the world. So there needs to be some kind of explanation. And I've never trusted the authors who solve this little problem by saying something like "elves wouldn't be interested in power," especially since so many of them seem to be quite power-conscious. And this has a certain historical precedent. There are some traditions of elves or other fey that are suggest that elves are, at the very least, less creative than humans. The tendency to kidnap human musicians, the whole changeling/stolen child tradition (infertility is a very obvious symbol of a lack of creativity). > Well, my fuss for the day...I must defend the Elves! *grin* And you do such a good job of it. =) May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:20:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil and not so evil! Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Tim and Tiffanie Gray wrote: > > That is one of the things in the SERRA books that I have never liked. It > makes no sense. Now if the bad ones could not create, or if the Dreaming > made it impossible to create then I could see it. But just giving the > blanket statement that they cannot create doesn't jive to me. > > Now if the reason she is saying that is because they have lived so long that > they have seen it all....then nothing the humans did would be creative > either. There is ever that arguement going on that every plot in the world > has already been written, everyone is just doing variations on a theme, that > would fit with this theory. > > To me, she just seems to be giving the Elves a fatal flaw for no reason > except to make the humans better or so that they won't be all powerful. > Prejudice? or DM fiat? Who knows, maybe she just wants to make humans seem > cooler, so people don't go crazy wishing they were elves or something. > (Don't encourage the wackos) > > Well, my fuss for the day...I must defend the Elves! *grin* > :) Cool, you think the way I do, in case you haven't noticed... MOST Fantasy worlds (in fact, most sci-fi worlds too!) give non-human races fatal flaws for no good reason... last time I talked to a games designer, he claimed it was to give humans an even break... but most of the time, I think it's just racial (human, not skin-tone racial) patriotism (errr, was that the right word? :P) I mean, look at AD&D, you can't advance past a certain level if you're of a certain race?! So essentially, everyone but humans spend about .01 percent of thier lives gaining knowledge, then quit 'cause thier brains are full!! ::Grin:: Sorry, this is a random problem I've got with most fantasy worlds... I think it's possible to give humans an even chance without screwing over the otehr races... not just defending the other races... also defending humans... 'cause I think giving other beings random disads for no good reason's like the judge hamstringing your opponants horse on the day of the race... not only does it screw your opponant, but it shames you! Actually, my main problem with Misty's books is that she tends to make her bad guys WAY too Evil (Capital "E"), or they tend to be insane... ::sigh:: Her heroes have a nice deapt tot ehm, but her villains tend to have fewer reasons for what they are... you know, they're too much less complex, and it gives me the feeling of "This guy was brought into existance to be beaten by the Good Guys!" (OK, so heWAS.... but he shoulddn't SEEM like it!) ::grin:: despite this flaw in her writing... I can live with it... tho, the Owl series IS kinda bringing my complaint back on it's ear, though, again, the people are too clear-cut good and evil... ::shrug:: so how does anyone else feel about this? > Dax the Eternal, > Goddess of Elves and Unicorns, Councilor of Mist > Mistic Watcher of Continuity, Evangelist of Low Humor, Knight of Fluff > NewbieFest: http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html > HomePage: http://welcome.to/GrayHaven > * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:28:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil and not so evil! Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 1999, Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > Well, this is actually not a bad reason. After all, as I understand it, > the Elves in her urban fantasy are quite powerful, yet they do not rule > the world. So there needs to be some kind of explanation. And I've never > trusted the authors who solve this little problem by saying something like > "elves wouldn't be interested in power," especially since so many of them However, it seems to me like they've got more than enough to worry about in thier own world... much less in ours... ::grin:: they way I've handled it (I world-build for games and such) is to say, they're not that interested in our worlds, since they've got enough problems in thier own, however, they tend to stratigically place thier worlds to opposing positions to ours basically, they tend to use our worlds as buffer zones... (AND our worlds are also less magical then thiers, or at least it's a different magic) ... the reason we see 'em's 'cause they keep way-stations (kind of like bvorder gaurds) and on occaasion, some of them get curious... OR someone decides to fight thier way into another "kingdom, and run into our world... ::grin:: so my elves and dwarves and fay in general aren't so goody-goody... :) > seem to be quite power-conscious. And this has a certain historical > precedent. There are some traditions of elves or other fey that are > suggest that elves are, at the very least, less creative than humans. > The tendency to kidnap human musicians, the whole changeling/stolen child > tradition (infertility is a very obvious symbol of a lack of creativity). I thoughtt he stolen child bit's because fay children scream during the day, when their parents sleep, so they want human children that scream at night, when they're awake... also because sometimes they want to get rid of sickly children... ::shrug:: > > > Well, my fuss for the day...I must defend the Elves! *grin* > > And you do such a good job of it. =) > > May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, > > Cennydd > Councilor of Mist > > Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife > Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously > Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb > kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me > > //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html > > * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:21:51 EDT From: "Alia Rose" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Ta DAAA!! Im BACK! Message-ID: <19990916212151.38136.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> greeting gentles!! i, alianora rose, have returned from the land beyond (ie. Ireland), and can now return to the list. happy dance! anybody miss me? . well, does anybody REMEMBER me? . um, well, anyway, im back. can somebody fill me in on whats been going on around the Halls of Mist? is ambermoon still around? just wanted to say hey, and inform everyone, whether they care or not, that i have returned. Ireland was awesome! hi to all the newbies! ************************************* Alianora Rose Royal Defender of the Brat ICQ # 1372207 http://members.xoom.com/alianora/procrastination.html ************************************* Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. -Jade ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:43:42 -0500 From: "Carrie MacDonald" To: "Misty List" Subject: Question of Rings - Arrows Series Message-ID: <000c01bf008c$d889e380$31a570cf-+AT+-compaq> ** Mistyish Fluff ** Morgana waits for a small lull in the conversation, then asks, "Do folks remember Talia's ring? The one she got from Kris? My books are back on the West Coast, and I'm in the Mid-West... anyway, what are the two meanings of the ring again? And what is it call in this reality? Thanks!" The girl flashes a faintly embaressed smile, for having forgotten, then pauses, "Oh yah. I forget who was asking about Serrated Edge and the series w/Eric&Beth&Kory, but there is also a good book called Beldam Boyz, by Ellen Guon, if no one has mentioned it yet. About Kayla and Elzbet, or however that name is spelled. Anyway, jasmine scented sheep to all, and thanks for the help! Morgana, Lady of Things Unseen And that Rat-Cat, Alexandra. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:14:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Korendel k'Vesta" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: The Ship Who Searched Message-ID: <19990917001455.8343.rocketmail-+AT+-web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Hello List-Sibs! I just (about 5 minutes ago) finished reading 'The Ship Who Searched'... I have several comments/questions I'd like to make... First- When I got the book I wasn't too sure about reading it- although I liked both authors- because it was more on the sci-fi end of sci-fi/fantasy. Not the type of book I usually read... but since it was Misty stuff I figured what they hey- and read it. Whoa! I totally adored the book! In fact- I liked it so much that I plan on reading the others in the series, even though they're not Misty stuff. If you havn't read it yet- please do! It's great. But I do have one question... **WARNING -- SPOILER -- WARNING** How exactly does the span of time work in the book? Tia was seven when she went into the shellperson program... I assume she was there for several years (did it say how long exactly?)... Then she had known her brawn for only a couple months when she decided she loved him... So by the end of the book when she gets the body-thingy how old was she? Even though she was mentally pretty old seeming, it just seemed odd to me... Maybe it was just me who thought that... What do ya'll think?? **END SPOILER** Well- that's all for now.. I FINALLY got the second Owl book, and am buisy reading that... Not I have to wait for 'Owlknight' to come out in PB... ::sigh:: Presto! ::makes three sheep jump out of her top hat:: ~*Kory*~ === ~*Korendel k'Vesta*~ ~*Stealer of Names and Changer of Spellings*~ ~*Kalma-Shait Nzambi Tripeta Leshy'a Psyche'Bes (AOL RPG)*~ ~*Notorious Lackey fiend of prestigious local rank*~ ~*Truth can hardly be held in the same light as vanity*~ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:31:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Lack of Elvish Creativity Message-ID: <19990917053109.20820.rocketmail-+AT+-web601.yahoomail.com> Heyla List-Sibs! *Li'nia grabs another fistful of hair as yet one more error message pops up onto her computer screen. She's also really beginning to regret programming a certain Monty Python Frenchman's razz-berry as her error sound...Shooting an evil look at Styx, she continues typing, ignoring his silent laughter...* Just a thought on the Elves (or Sidhe) and their lack of creativity. Misty isn't the only one to touch on this; I've seen other authors mention the fact that that tended to be one of their racial flaws. Maybe it has something to do with their long lives. You rarely see authors give an advantage to a race without taking something away from them. So I don't think that it's just her idea. Just MHO. === ---<---<---<----+AT+- Li'nia Stormdancer -+AT+---->--->--->--- Stormdance k'T'more y Kuus & Tril, Peon to the Powers That Be, Devotee to the OoUH, (Hopeful)Goddess of All Things Possessed, Mindmate to Styx A'ska, Caretaker of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:36:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Ta DAAA!! Im BACK! Message-ID: <19990917053651.21353.rocketmail-+AT+-web601.yahoomail.com> Welcome back, List-Sib! What I wouldn't give to be able to go to Ireland.... Instead I'm in Korea... I miss the States, though! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:39:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Um...apology! Message-ID: <19990917053917.18119.rocketmail-+AT+-web601.yahoomail.com> Sorry, List-Sibs, for that last posting! My finger was a little faster than my brain (not unusual) and I sent it before changing the "reply" address. *Li'nia hangs her head and shuffles out of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention. Maybe she'll go grab some janitorial stuff and clean up the sheep-leftovers in the Arena...* === ---<---<---<----+AT+- Li'nia Stormdancer -+AT+---->--->--->--- Stormdance k'T'more y Kuus & Tril, Peon to the Powers That Be, Devotee to the OoUH, (Hopeful)Goddess of All Things Possessed, Mindmate to Styx A'ska, Caretaker of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2082 **********************************