MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2124 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Magic by "Ambermoon Shadowstar" 2) Re: Magic by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 3) Re: Magic by "Alia Rose" 4) Re: Magic by songrunner-+AT+-juno.com 5) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 2123 by Elizabeth Hoffman 6) Re: Magic by HecateShiru-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: Magic by LW ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:44:42 EST From: "Ambermoon Shadowstar" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Magic Message-ID: <19991101014443.51271.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Bright the day, Lovesinger wrote: > Well, it is possible that the monarchs never did leave Valdemar. >It >seems unlikely, but I don't remember it ever being mentioned where >Seleny >leaves Valdemar, so maybe no monarch has. They have >dignataries and >diplomats to do all the treaty-making, peace-keeping >stuff. So, if the >monarchs never left Valdemar, they'd never >discover their mage-gift >because the gift could not have been >discovered within the borders because >of Vanyel's boundry. But, I >think the biggest part of the "no magic in >Valdemar" thing had to do >with the bards' "spell" of forgetting magic. By >Seleny's time, no >one BELIEVED in magic. Belief is powerful....if you >don't believe in >something, it can never be true to you. However, not just the Monarchs were Vanyel's descendents. Everyone in the royal family is one. It's completely illogical that none of them would ever have left Valdemar. And once outside, the spells were no longer in effect, and magic was everywhere. When the Rethwellan monarchs have court mages performing tricks, it's a little hard to not believe. Come to think of it, why did no ambassadors ever mention magic? Either Valdemaran ambassadors in other countries sending reports back, or foreign ambassadors at the Valdemaran Court? I'm trying to understand how a whole country could have remained in such ignorance for centuries. logical sheep with tasty answers to all, Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:13:51 -0500 From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic Message-ID: <381D056F.1E5A6F3-+AT+-vt.edu> It was mentioned, and noted, many times, but the glamorie Vanyel and Stephen put on the Valdemarans made them discount or forget it. (Elspeth discovers and wonders at this when she's reading in the Haven library before her overland trek.) Also, the monarchs would probably only leave the country when very young or for short periods of time (diplomatic missions, etc.), and this doesn't provide much chance for development of powers they haven't recognized as possible for a long time. I don't think the Valdemarans were made to believe magic *itself* was impossible, just that there were no Valdemaran mages. I think there were a few instances that Valdemarans referred to Rethwellan or Hardornen wizards while not really thinking about the lack of Valdemaran mages. Ambermoon Shadowstar wrote: > > Bright the day, > > Lovesinger wrote: > > Well, it is possible that the monarchs never did leave Valdemar. >It > >seems unlikely, but I don't remember it ever being mentioned where >Seleny > >leaves Valdemar, so maybe no monarch has. They have >dignataries and > >diplomats to do all the treaty-making, peace-keeping >stuff. So, if the > >monarchs never left Valdemar, they'd never >discover their mage-gift > >because the gift could not have been >discovered within the borders because > >of Vanyel's boundry. But, I >think the biggest part of the "no magic in > >Valdemar" thing had to do >with the bards' "spell" of forgetting magic. By > >Seleny's time, no >one BELIEVED in magic. Belief is powerful....if you > >don't believe in >something, it can never be true to you. > > However, not just the Monarchs were Vanyel's descendents. Everyone in the > royal family is one. It's completely illogical that none of them would ever > have left Valdemar. And once outside, the spells were no longer in effect, > and magic was everywhere. When the Rethwellan monarchs have court mages > performing tricks, it's a little hard to not believe. Come to think of it, > why did no ambassadors ever mention magic? Either Valdemaran ambassadors in > other countries sending reports back, or foreign ambassadors at the > Valdemaran Court? I'm trying to understand how a whole country could have > remained in such ignorance for centuries. > > logical sheep with tasty answers to all, > Ambermoon > Singer of Fire > Royal Defender of the Brat > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 00:48:19 EST From: "Alia Rose" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic Message-ID: <19991101054819.16765.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Ambermoon wrote: It's completely illogical that none of them would ever have left Valdemar. why did no ambassadors ever mention magic? ** yeah, it IS kinda weird, but if you will remember from the first Winds book, Elspeth is looking through some old history books. she discovers that there is alot of informationabout magic in there, but it is generally attributed to mind magic or hallucination. as i remember it, the song "Kerowyn's Ride" has always been attributed to anonymous. whenever someone from elsewhere would hear it in court, they would always correct that. it would be duly noted, and then , the next time its played, its attributed to anonymous!! my best guess is that the spell that Vanyel establishes not only keeps magic out, but people also forget. Even Kero has a very hard time talking about magic inside the borders, and she KNOWS its real. so it probably WAS reported, but soon, it wouldnt seem to be a big deal, or everyone would forget about it. and when people returned to Valdemar, they were soon back under the spell of forgetfullness. WHEW! that was alot, and from ME, a lurker? AMAZING! i forget, who do we apply to for divinity? i want to be a goddess. Wind to thy wings, listsibs. Sheep in ewok pajamas, ************************************* Alianora Rose Royal Defender of the Brat ICQ # 1372207 ************************************* Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. -Jade ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:30:49 +0000 From: songrunner-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic Message-ID: <19991031.225958.3686.4.Songrunner-+AT+-juno.com> Ambermoon wrote: > However, not just the Monarchs were Vanyel's descendents. Everyone >in the royal family is one. It's completely illogical that none of them would >ever have left Valdemar. And once outside, the spells were no longer in >effect, and magic was everywhere. When the Rethwellan monarchs have court >mages performing tricks, it's a little hard to not believe. Come to think of >it, why did no ambassadors ever mention magic? Either Valdemaran >ambassadors in other countries sending reports back, or foreign ambassadors >at the Valdemaran Court? I'm trying to understand how a whole country could >have remained in such ignorance for centuries. Remember when Kero was trying to talk to Eldan about Companions being Spirits and about the mages and magic-related stuff in her merc company? Every time she tried to say something, there was some force that would prevent it or make her say something else. And this was when the spell was weakening, several hundred years after it was cast. So even if member of the royal family did go out of the country, it doesn't necessarily follow that they had the mage gift - it was a rare gift even back in Van's time. And even those that did, the same thing that made it hard for Kero (and probably anyone else that tried) to talk to a Valdemaran about magic probably made it so that anyone that might have shown interest in checking the mage-abilities of a Valdemaran ambassador lost interest or something. And those that came to the Valdemaran court probably didn't have the mage-gift, since the border spells would have kept them out. With the exception of Hulda, of course, but she was a special case, and besides, she never realized that Elspeth had mage-potential, and she was with her constantly and was, herself, an Adept-class mage. So apparently the spells that Van cast have a bit more of a wide-spread range than is immediately obvious. Now, if that made any sense at all to you, treat yourself to your favorite-flavored sheep! Wind to thy Wings, Songrunner ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:02:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Elizabeth Hoffman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 2123 Message-ID: >"Silver wing" > i asked how to switch the list to a digest. unfortunately, > i added a nice little ?, and everyone anwsered that, but no > one knew how to digest the list HELP??? I'm pasting this in from the email that Mel D. sent when Vanyel (the server the list is sent from) had a flip out. >Hi folks, Due to Listproc getting its knickers in a knot earlier on today, I've temporarily set all of your subscriptions to ACK, rather than any of NOACK, DIGEST or POSTPONE. Those of you who were on ACK before -- which is the setting where you get each mail as an individual message, including your own -- need do nothing. ---start instructions--- Start to write a mail message to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk. If you are not on AOL, and know that your mail client does not try to do clever things to blank Subject lines, leave the subject line of the mail blank. If you are on AOL, or aren't sure about your mail client, the Subject line should be "Chocolate Cake". Turn off MIME encoding. (This will probably apply to people using Outlook Express or similar Microsoft-isms.) If you managed to subscribe to the list in the first place, you must already have done this at least once ;) In the body of the mail message, write one of the following: set mercedes-lackey mail digest set mercedes-lackey mail noack set mercedes-lackey mail postpone depending which setting you want. "Digest" gives you collected batches of mail messages. "Noack" gives you individual messages, but never sends your own posts back to you. "Postpone" does not send you any mail at all. If you don't actually want to be on the list at all, then please write the following instead: unsubscribe mercedes-lackey Do not leave the word "mail" out of the line in your mail message if you are using one of the first three messages. Do not misspell "unsubscribe" if you are using the last option. "unsub" is also okay. Now send the mail. You should get an acknowledgement back reasonably shortly (minutes to hours, depending on many things including the speed of the net, phase of the moon...) telling you that your settings have been reset. If you get a message back saying something along the lines of "Unrecognized command THIS", then please go back to the section above that mentions MIME encoding, and remember to do that this time. If you get a message saying "You are not subscribed to the list" (or words to that effect) then forward that message to lackey-owner-+AT+-herald.co.uk, and tell me what you would like your setting to be. If you don't get a message back at all after, let us say, 24 hours, something is broken; mail to lackey-owner-+AT+-herald.co.uk. --- end instructions --- Mel< Hope this helps. ---------------------- Liz Hoffman E.G.Hoffman-+AT+-soton.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:57:13 EST From: HecateShiru-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic Message-ID: <0.c0965498.254f3c89-+AT+-aol.com> Quick correction, my friends. Hulda did realize that Elspeth had the potential to be an adept class mage, but during the time that she was with the child, Elspeth's gifts hadn't awakened yet. It says in one of the books (I'm sorry but I can't remember which one) that Ancar was only a second choice for Hulda, considering the power that was available in Elspeth. Zhai'helleva sibs! Songstar << Remember when Kero was trying to talk to Eldan about Companions being Spirits and about the mages and magic-related stuff in her merc company? Every time she tried to say something, there was some force that would prevent it or make her say something else. And this was when the spell was weakening, several hundred years after it was cast. So even if member of the royal family did go out of the country, it doesn't necessarily follow that they had the mage gift - it was a rare gift even back in Van's time. And even those that did, the same thing that made it hard for Kero (and probably anyone else that tried) to talk to a Valdemaran about magic probably made it so that anyone that might have shown interest in checking the mage-abilities of a Valdemaran ambassador lost interest or something. And those that came to the Valdemaran court probably didn't have the mage-gift, since the border spells would have kept them out. With the exception of Hulda, of course, but she was a special case, and besides, she never realized that Elspeth had mage-potential, and she was with her constantly and was, herself, an Adept-class mage. So apparently the spells that Van cast have a bit more of a wide-spread range than is immediately obvious. >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 17:31:55 -0500 From: LW To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991101173155.0079db80-+AT+-idirect.ca> > However, not just the Monarchs were Vanyel's descendents. Everyone in the >royal family is one. It's completely illogical that none of them would ever >have left Valdemar. And once outside, the spells were no longer in effect, >and magic was everywhere. When the Rethwellan monarchs have court mages >performing tricks, it's a little hard to not believe. Come to think of it, >why did no ambassadors ever mention magic? Either Valdemaran ambassadors in >other countries sending reports back, or foreign ambassadors at the >Valdemaran Court? I'm trying to understand how a whole country could have >remained in such ignorance for centuries. You are greatly forgetting the fact that all of the monarchs who left had companions who would have helped keep things likes that a secret. Companions were part of the reasons magic became something that was not comprehendable. Also with companions not being shielded out they can pretty much alter your mind slightly. Roald met with Kethry and Tarma and was not affected by it either. Lightwing ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2124 **********************************