[LMB] Nikki's POV re: Tien

Pouncer at aol.com Pouncer at aol.com
Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:18:20 EST


Robert Parks)< rparks at lvhot.org > suggests:
>Lois McMaster Bujold wrote:

>> (Actually, I would be curious what Pouncer had to >>say about
Ekaterin, Nikki, and Tien... that part, >>at least, would be on
topic.)

>Pouncer!  Better go get the flannel lined jacket
>and fur hat...you've just been handed a hunting >license!

It's just that, in Ekaterin's and Miles's view, Tien is a jerk. We
are much less privileged to enjoy Tien from Nikki's perspective.

Given the impulsive, short-sighted, selfish -- childish -- characteristics
Tien shows, Nikki at the time of _Komarr_ might easily prefer his
father to his mother.

Imagine conversations with Nikki regarding his family b maybe at some
point just prior to Tien's assignment to Komarr. If Ekaterin sought
some sort of marriage/family counseling.  She's weary of the career
moves, the jealousy, postponements of medical treatments that she'd,
still, keep secret from the counselor. And that is going to be
looking for the big picture and talking to Nikki. Or say Ekaterin
wanted to raise more children,  Tien was reluctant to admit his
medical problem, and they looked into adoption.  So the Barrayaran
analog of a social worker comes around and talks to them, and to
Nikki.

Either wayb&

"You move a lot?"

"Yeah, well, Dad says it's part of being Vor.  We serve.  In the
military, soldiers go where they're sent, right?  My Dad's the same b
there's places that need him, and we go there."

"But you're not, actually, in the military."

"Naw.  It's all important, though.  My Dad is able to get in, learn
fast, and get things running.  He's good at it. He's had to be good
at it."

"He doesn't spend much time with you, then?"

"Oh yeah, he does.  Between jobs, mostly.  We took a big vacation to
the beach, one time.  Sometimes is hard but it's really exciting,
too.  We make up for the hard times with really neat time togetherb&"

"So, you get along good with your father?"

"He's great. He taught me to wrestle.  He used to be in the Service,
you know. He quit to get married and have me.  He coulda stayed in,
but he didn't."

"Hm-mm.  You mentioned wrestling.  Do you ever fight with your
father, for real?"

"Aw, naw!  It's all fun, you know?  Even when I do something bad, --
just sometimes, you know b he never hits me.  I don't suppose he ever
hit me, even when I was little.  "

TIen's manipulative streak probably leaves Nikki thinking  he (Nikki)
has earned a beating rather frequently, beatings which are never
delivered because of Tien's vast forebearance...  That absence of
violence might loom larger among Tien's virtues with Nikki than
Ekaterin.

A great deal of all this is Ekaterin taking on the whole burden and
deliberately shielding Nikki from Tien's worst failings.  She's giving
150%, Tien is sucking away three quarters of that, leaving Nikki
on average a two parent family that gets a  solid  "C" grade.
It's Ekaterin making sure the family sits down for dinner together
at night, each with a serving of greens.  (Sometimes brussel
sprouts instaed of peas, 'cause they were on sale and she had
a coupon.)  Tien insists Nikki eat them, 'cause it's the Vor fatherly
role to insist on such things -- even if Tien leaves his own on his
plate.  But when Tien happens to be in charge alone, well, then,
time to send out for pizza.

Ekaterin doesn't express dislike of this situation so much as sheer
weariness.  I speculate that, if Tien had been assigned another
sector, not Radnov's, the situation would have limped along until
Ekaterin began dumping some of the family workload on Nikki.
That would be interesting -- would Nikki resent his mother for
dumping, or his father for not accepting a dump?

But right at the moment when Ekaterin decides SHE's had enough,
and SHE's taking Nikki and getting gone -- what do you suppose
Nikki's opinion is?  Given choices -- go with mom, stay with dad, or
somehow magic mom and dad into staying together -- I'd guessing
he'd do everything he could imagine to hold things at that "C",
again.
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From: lois-bujold-request at lists.herald.co.uk
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Today's Topics:

   1. adoption and divorce and pizza (POUNCER)
   2. Re: A question from Komarr (Drandmrslecter at aol.com)
   3. RE:  A question from Komarr (Tracey Edwardes)
   4. Re: A question from Komarr (Janet Bruesselbach)
   5. Re: Lois-Bujold digest, Vol 1 #2199 - to "10 year old courier" (CatMtn at aol.com)
   6. Re: Lois-Bujold digest, Vol 1 #2199 - to "10 year old courier" (CatMtn at aol.com)
   7. 10 year old courier (Lois McMaster Bujold)
   8. 10 year old courier (lorraine fletez-brant)
   9. Pizza, adoption, not OT (Marna Nightingale)
  10. Re-reading _BOA_ (Alexandra Haropulos)
  11. Re: Pizza, adoption, not OT (Azalais Malfoy)
  12. Re: OT: Revisiting earlier audio & video over LAN
       discussion (Patricia A. Swan)
  13. OT:  A Quote for Today (Susan Fox-Davis)
  14. 10 year old courier (Louann Miller)
  15. Re: TORCON Hotel Bujoldar! [Fwd: Canadiana Backpackers
       Inn,  inToronto] (Scott Hofmann)
  16. Re: 10 year old courier (Robert Parks)
  17. Re: Pizza, adoption, not OT (Robert Parks)
  18. OT: Bart Update (Jagoda, Lynette K)
  19. Re: Croatian Winterfair Gifts has landed!!!!!  YAY! (George S. Vaughan)
  20. Re: The Tomorrow Log and other Lee/Miller vs LMB (Scott Raun)
  21. Re: A question from Komarr (Michele Stupinsky)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 04:09:23 -0800 (PST)
From: POUNCER <altpouncer at yahoo.com>
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: [LMB] adoption and divorce and pizza
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

"Ray Drouillard" <RayLists at quixnet.net>

>I think it's time to call pizza on this one.
>
>The discussion was interesting (at least, I 
>was learning something), but we don't need to 
>cause pain to our fellow listees.

<Pouncer defers Tien/Ekaterin/Nikki post until
some indefinite future date...>



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
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--__--__--

Message: 2
From: Drandmrslecter at aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:33:14 EST
Subject: Re: [LMB] A question from Komarr
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

In a message dated 3/17/2003 4:22:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
traceyln at tpg.com.au writes:


> Miles is in the bathroom talking Nicki into going to school.
> He mentions having contracted with a 10year old girl to be a courier.
> it seems as if he's real about the story but I don't know where it was in
> the previous books.
> Have I been sucked in just like Nicki or did she really exist?
> 

I have the impression Miles was making it up. 

He had to use the depilatory cream as a ruse to gain entrance into the 
bathroom, so he already knew it was going to take a bit of doing to get Nikki 
out of there.

He realizes very early on in the conversation that Nikki is bright when his 
first couple of tactics fail to make an impression.  

"That's what Mama said"/"How do you know?  You said you were a courier."

'Damn, the kid was sharp.'

That's when he switches to the 'youngest subagent' story.  At first, I was 
falling for it, but then picked up these couple of bits that convinced me 
Miles was pulling the wool over his eyes.

First, when Nikki is obviously very impressed with the story ("Ten.....a girl 
...")

Miles thinks: 'a hit.... very palbable hit'' .

Then we read, "when he judged the hook was set, he feigned to come back to 
himself...."

So considering that Miles has to fake that expression, means it wasn't a real 
memory.....at least, that's how I interpretted it.

Helene

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "Tracey Edwardes" <traceyln at tpg.com.au>
To: <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE:  [LMB] A question from Komarr
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:44:09 +0800
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

I started reading down the digest and began thinking who was the idiot that
didn't snip, oops twas me...(-:

Thanks for the comment Bo, I was sure I couldn't remember a 10 year old girl
but you never know.

Traceylyn (from Oz)
>
> OK I've been re reading this for the umpteenth time and I
> still cant place where the 10 year old spy/courier fits in
>
> Miles is in the bathroom talking Nicki into going to school.
> He mentions having contracted with a 10year old girl to be a
> courier.
> it seems as if he's real about the story but I don't know
> where it was in the previous books.
> Have I been sucked in just like Nicki or did she really exist?

My impression is that this happened during some mission not (yet)
described in the books. Perhaps that mission after BiA when he
broke both hands.

// Bo Johansson

P.S. Not a good idea to include the whole digest as a quote...

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 08:15:21 -0500
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
From: Janet Bruesselbach <jupitre at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [LMB] A question from Komarr
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

Remember Lilly, Jr. ?

>On Monday, March 17, 2003 10:24 AM [GMT+1=CET],
>Tracey Edwardes <traceyln at tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
>  > Miles is in the bathroom talking Nicki into going to school.
>>  He mentions having contracted with a 10year old girl to be a
>>  courier.
>>  it seems as if he's real about the story but I don't know
>>  where it was in the previous books.
>>  Have I been sucked in just like Nicki or did she really exist?
>
>My impression is that this happened during some mission not (yet)
>described in the books. Perhaps that mission after BiA when he
>broke both hands.
>
>// Bo Johansson

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: CatMtn at aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:09:18 EST
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: [LMB] Re: Lois-Bujold digest, Vol 1 #2199 - to "10 year old courier"
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk


--__--__--

Message: 6
From: CatMtn at aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:11:17 EST
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: [LMB] Re: Lois-Bujold digest, Vol 1 #2199 - to "10 year old courier"
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

I don't suppose Miles would have been plagiarizing from Heinlein's _The Moon 
is a Harsh Mistress_ in which 12-year-old Hazel Meade organizes the children 
as irregular couriers?

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Lois McMaster Bujold" <lbujold at myinfmail.com>
To: "Bujold chat list" <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:38:38 -0600
Subject: [LMB] 10 year old courier
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

Hiya --

    If it matters to the discussion, which I have no desire to cut short, in
my mind, at least, the 10 year old courier was a real incident, attached to
one of the 35 or so unchronicled Dendarii missions.  No, you were not
intended to construe her to be Lilly jr.  No, I don't know anything about
the rest of the mission at this time.

    Though Miles being Miles, it is certainly possible for him to have been
making it up on the fly -- he does fall back into old bad habits now and
then, despite his recent reforms.  Though I think he'd be less inclined to
lie to a child than to an adult, particularly a child already in distress.

    Ta, L.

    (Actually, I would be curious what Pouncer had to say about Ekaterin,
Nikki, and Tien... that part, at least, would be on topic.)

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "lorraine fletez-brant" <lorrainenfletez at hotmail.com>
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: [LMB] 10 year old courier 
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:33:04 -0700
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

Lois McMaster Bujold lbujold at myinfmail.com
Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:38:38 -0600

>    If it matters to the discussion, which I have no desire to cut short, 
>in my mind, at least, the 10 year old courier was a real incident, attached 
>to one of the 35 or so unchronicled Dendarii missions.  No, you were not 
>intended to construe her to be Lilly jr.  No, I don't know anything about 
>the rest of the mission at this time.<

Hi, Lois and all!

The Lil' Horned Hopper, being who she is [curiosity and all, y'know], has 
immediately latched onto the phrase, "at this time." OOOooooh. THAT implies 
a *later* time, maybe even a *sooner* time. I'm looking forward to that 
time, whenever it comes, with keen interest!!!! WLW!

I, too, would like to read Pouncer's views on the Ekaterin/Tien situation. 
His views are always interesting ...

Lorraine - Lil' Horned Hopper





_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Marna Nightingale" <marna at mailpuppy.com>
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 00:56:34 +0800
Subject: [LMB] Pizza, adoption, not OT
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

<<<Pouncer defers Tien/Ekaterin/Nikki post until
some indefinite future date...>>>

I don't understand the Pizza Call notion as being intended to halt ONtopic threads, even if heated. 

What do other people think? 

I do think, though, that we might want to a) keep this one reined in fairly firmly to On Topic, and b) remember when posting on family arrangements that there's hardly a one a person could pontificate on around here without running smack into someone  who is living it and may therefore think that they know rather more about it than the theorists do. 

This is what I think. What does everyone else think? 

Marna. 

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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:55:18 -0500
From: Alexandra Haropulos <aharo at erols.com>
To: Bujold Listserv <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
Subject: [LMB] Re-reading _BOA_
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

It only takes me five years, but I
eventually notice
these things.

I looked at the dialog where Miles is
telling Duv
that some things were too important to
allow him to take
the time to play Lord Vorkosigan.

(Following is an approximation.)

Duv says with astonishment "Play Lord
Vorkosigan?
Who do you think you are?"

Miles says "Uh..."

Duv says, "Lose track sometimes?"

Maybe this was partially why Miles had
trouble
in _MD_ remembering which one he is.
After all, it's not
really until _Memory_ that he finds
himself as Lord
Vorkosigan.

--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:11:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Azalais Malfoy <tiamat at tsoft.com>
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: [LMB] Pizza, adoption, not OT
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, Marna Nightingale wrote:

> <<<Pouncer defers Tien/Ekaterin/Nikki post until
> some indefinite future date...>>>
>
> I don't understand the Pizza Call notion as being intended to
> halt ONtopic threads, even if heated.
>
> What do other people think?

That there is hopefully, not any way in which an Ekaterin/Nikki
post could be turned around into an insult to those members of my
family worth acknowledging-- and that on topic is on topic.

~malfoy
**************************************************************************
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is
sacred somewhere.  There's a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect
and love your darkest side, disposing only of what is obsolete or
impractical.  It's all about giving yourself permission." --Jack Darkhand

"It is better to be cruel for love than for hate." --Thomas Burnett Swann

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:19:48 -0500
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
From: "Patricia A. Swan" <zafaran at sff.net>
Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Revisiting earlier audio & video over LAN  
  discussion
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

At 02:25 AM 3/17/2003 -0600, Andrew Lambdin-Abraham wrote:
>However, you don't want RAID here.  RAID is for redundancy, or speed.
>In either case, it comes at the cost of capacity, or safety.  If 
>you're running RAID 0, one disk crash and you're out your entire 
>collection.
>
>Andrew

For this, if you do want RAID, you don't want anything less than RAID 5 
if you can avoid it.  That obviates the safety issue.  This type of 
RAID can recreate the data on a lost drive in the array if you don't 
have a second drive in the array fail at the same time because there is 
what is called "parity" information written across all the disks in the 
array.  In software, with my NT4 Server, I can run RAID 5 on an array 
of up to 32 disks, or there are the hardware options that have the 
drives in their own cage.  Some of these cages allow you to "hot swap" 
failed drives without even powering the system down, which is more than 
a bit of over-kill for most audio/media apps, but it never hurts to 
know it's available for other uses where it makes sense.

If RAID 5 is out of the question, your only other safe option is RAID 1 
which is making a pair of drives into a mirror set.  *But* you have to 
also know how to break the mirror if one drive fails so that you can 
replace the failed drive and then re-mirror with the replacement drive 
so that the pair are running together again.  Which, with a system 
drive, means you have to have two boot disks, one for each side of the 
mirror because of the physical difference in where the files for the 
operating system, etc. reside on the drive controller/drives real-life 
physical structure for the two sides of the mirror.

Pat (the lan geek) in North Carolina.

>--

* Patricia A. Swan   <*>  zafaran at dnet.net  Ebay ID:  zafaranswan  *
* Six Swans Design   http://members.fortunecity.com/zafaran        *

--__--__--

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:29:51 -0800
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
To: lois-bujold <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
Subject: [LMB] OT:  A Quote for Today
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

This one came in my e-mail today and made me go "whoaaaaa."
There's a man we really needed today.  :-(

"He who cannot change the very fabric of his thought will never be
able to change reality."  -Anwar El-Sadat


Let's all change reality for the better today!
Selene/Susan

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:28:13 -0600
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
From: Louann Miller <lqmiller at iqcisp.com>
Subject: [LMB] 10 year old courier
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

At 10:11 AM 3/17/2003 -0500, CatMtn at aol.com wrote:
>I don't suppose Miles would have been plagiarizing from Heinlein's _The Moon
>is a Harsh Mistress_ in which 12-year-old Hazel Meade organizes the children
>as irregular couriers?

Remember that Heinlein/Mike the computer plagiarized that idea from 
Sherlock Holmes. I think there are indications elsewhere in canon that 
Miles is a Holmes reader.

Which could cut either way. It could have inspired him to the 
real(his)-world use of an underage courier, or it could have inspired him 
to invent the story for Nikki out of whole cloth.

Note also that Duv Galeni had played a child courier/spy role for his 
father in one of the Komarr revolts.

Louann

--__--__--

Message: 15
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: [LMB] TORCON Hotel Bujoldar! [Fwd: Canadiana Backpackers
  Inn,  inToronto]
From: shofmann at mindspring.com (Scott Hofmann)
Date: 17 Mar 2003 12:36:11 -0500
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

>>>>> "MN" == Marna Nightingale <marna at redmaplegrove.org> writes:

 MN> I forgot to highlight this bit. 
 MN> Marna Nightingale wrote:

 >> Please e-mail me back if you would like any additional information, if you
 >> know the number of participants and type of accommodation preferred I can
 >> quote a group rate.

 MN> So if anyone who wants to do this will drop me a line this week, I can
 MN> call her and negotiate; if we actually do manage to fill or
 MN> nearly-fill the place, the group rate ought to be good. 

I am interested in joining the Bujold group there.

scott

-- 
J. Scott Hofmann                      http://cougar.kniggets.org
mailto:shofmann at mindspring.com

--__--__--

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:49:49 -0800
From: Robert Parks <rparks at lvhot.org>
Organization: San Francisco Municipal Railway
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: [LMB] 10 year old courier
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

Lois McMaster Bujold wrote:
> (Actually, I would be curious what Pouncer had to say about
> Ekaterin, Nikki, and Tien... that part, at least, would be on
> topic.)

Pouncer!  Better go get the flannel lined jacket and fur 
hat...you've just been handed a hunting license! ;)

Robert

--__--__--

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:54:30 -0800
From: Robert Parks <rparks at lvhot.org>
Organization: San Francisco Municipal Railway
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: [LMB] Pizza, adoption, not OT
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

Marna Nightingale wrote:
> <<<Pouncer defers Tien/Ekaterin/Nikki post until some
> indefinite future date...>>>

> I don't understand the Pizza Call notion as being intended to
> halt ONtopic threads, even if heated.

> What do other people think?

Shouldn't be, maybe remind people where they are and cool it off a 
bit, but certainly not kill the thread, esp when the part that is 
causing the problem is clearly off-topic/personal.

> I do think, though, that we might want to a) keep this one
> reined in fairly firmly to On Topic, and b) remember when
> posting on family arrangements that there's hardly a one a
> person could pontificate on around here without running smack
> into someone  who is living it and may therefore think that
> they know rather more about it than the theorists do.

> This is what I think. What does everyone else think?

I think that you're right, as usual.

Robert

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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:07:31 -0800
From: "Jagoda, Lynette K" <lynette.jagoda at pnl.gov>
To: "Lois-Bujold List (E-mail)" <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
Subject: [LMB] OT: Bart Update
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

Hello all,

Just a quick update for those who like to stay up with Listee's personal lives. I heard from Bart yesterday, from some temporary cyber place. A wonderful, long (almost 2 pages) very Bartish letter <sigh, I miss him>. He is in Europe someplace. Can't tell us more. He is sad that he won't be at TorCon, which means he is going to miss his first WorldCon since 1988. [1] Says the family is doing fine, but is worried that his business will loose significant ground with him away for gone so long. 

He had lots of "on the ground" observations that make him feel more and more like his being there is a "right thing" for him to be doing. Thus he feels like his personal losses are part of what needs to be done for the good of many. He acknowledges many feel otherwise about the situation, and says he respects those who are genuinely motivated by pacifistic convictions. But for him, this is part of what he joined the military for in the first place. To help depose "Prince Sergs" of the world. Needless to say, Bart says all of this far more eloquently than I am distilling. But since his message was both long and seeded with many political hot topics I am not forwarding the entire thing to the list this time. [2]  However I know many of you miss him as much as I, and that all of you hope he returns to us safely and soon. So I thought I would give you all a short up-date on his current physical and mental state. 

Hugs for all of us with loved ones in potential danger in these troubled times. 
Prayers for Peace for us all. 
And Prayers of protection for those of our own around the world. [3] May you be ruled by wisdom and compassion in all things. And may you return home safely, having done what you were personally called to do, with your personal honor still intact rather than as shards at your feet. 
 
Lynette 

[1] Not that I don't really want to meet many many of you, and see others of you again... but the potential for no Lois and now for sure no Bart... well TorCon is going to have its bittersweet parts for me. Perhaps I should have tried harder to make it to last years WorldCon in CA. <sigh> 

[2] Anybody who wants the full text e-mail me offlist at Vorjoy at aol.com and I will happily pass it on to you.  Make sure you put something in the subject line that identifies you as a listee not a Spammer. 

[3] At this time I know we have two listees deployed, Bart and Diana. And Brian is being deployed within days IIRC. Anybody else we need to be praying for by name?  

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Message: 19
From: "George S. Vaughan" <gsvaughan at insightbb.com>
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: [LMB] Croatian Winterfair Gifts has landed!!!!!  YAY!
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:51:51 -0500
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:52:57 -0700, House of Unruly Fish wrote:

>The cover is kind of neat, I think, and I will post a pic of it later this 
>evening.  

They are beginning to arrive at the end buyers as well.  Why is there
a rising torrent on the back cover?

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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 12:54:22 -0600
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: [LMB] The Tomorrow Log and other Lee/Miller vs LMB
From: Scott Raun <sraun at fireopal.org>
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

On Sat, Mar 15, 2003 at 02:00:44PM -0600, K Kuhn wrote:
> Thought Clan Korval did think they were responsible for Liad, even if
> the rest of the planet didn't know about it?

Hmm - Korval believed they had a very well-defined responsibility for
the safety of the passengers.  Anything that didn't affect their
safety was none of Korval's business.

It was ... understood? by the rest of Liad that the Contract had never
been cancelled - Captain's Justice had last been (officially)
exercised some three hundred years earlier, which would have been
about 700 years after the refugees landed.

There's clear reference to both of these in Chapter Two of _Scout's
Progress_.  Delm Korval (Head of Clan) says explicitly that he is
'very little more than a tightly-channeled wild card'.

> Sorta like the series is a story of the conflict between two
> unofficial organizations that each think they are the ones in charge
> of protecting Liad, but which haven't bothered to inform the
> putative government (the Council of Clans) about it because they
> can't be trusted to follow orders?

That's in ... interesting take on it.

The DoI views Korval as a potential hindrance to their plans to make
Liad a 'true' galactic power.  They (the DoI) seem to feel that an
expansionistic dictatorship is necessary for that to occur.  They also
strike me as incredibly xenophobic - they're out to conquer the
universe before the universe does something nasty to THEM!  Korval
would, by all past actions, look upon their plans with very little
sympathy - and Korval has the power to back up their displeasure!

After all, the Scouts exist because of Korval's patronage.  One would
hardly expect that the two would have substantially different
world-views!  (Especially given how frequently Korval members seem to
become Scouts!)

There's a line somewhere - probably in _Carpe Diem_ - about the DoI
looking at isolating undeveloped worlds to be left to develop on their
own as 'inefficient', and that that would change after they took over.

> Thanks for writing that - the 'aha!" moments are what I read sf for in
> the first place, and I never thought of Jackson's Whole as being like
> Liaden before.  But now that you put it that way, it makes a rather neat
> analogy, leading to rather more sympathy for the Terran viewpoint than
> one gets if one's first exposure to Liaden was _Agent of Change_.  

Hmm - I never had much lack of of sympathy for the Terran viewpoint.
I think part of that was Val Con's description of the Terran Party -
it sounded like one of those non-mainstream groups that accumulate a
fair degree of power, and then are likely to abuse it - or at least,
individuals in positions of power will abuse it.  In many ways, the
Terran Party and the DoI are two sides of the same coin.

-- 
Scott Raun
sraun at fireopal.org

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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:20:14 -0500
From: Michele Stupinsky <stupml1 at wfu.edu>
To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: [LMB] A question from Komarr
Reply-To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

Having just finished the series (i read every book since WA in about a
month...whew!), i can confidently say there was no ten year old girl.  Maybe
it's just me but i got the impression that Miles was using that story to make
Nikki feel that he shouldn't let his apparent (or not-so-apparent) weaknesses
hold him back.

--Michele
Live From Wake Forest University.

Tracey Edwardes wrote:

> Sorry, sorry, sorry.
>
> I started reading down the digest and began thinking who was the idiot that
> didn't snip, oops twas me...(-:
>
> Thanks for the comment Bo, I was sure I couldn't remember a 10 year old girl
> but you never know.
>
> Traceylyn (from Oz)
> >
> > OK I've been re reading this for the umpteenth time and I
> > still cant place where the 10 year old spy/courier fits in
> >
> > Miles is in the bathroom talking Nicki into going to school.
> > He mentions having contracted with a 10year old girl to be a
> > courier.
> > it seems as if he's real about the story but I don't know
> > where it was in the previous books.
> > Have I been sucked in just like Nicki or did she really exist?
>
> My impression is that this happened during some mission not (yet)
> described in the books. Perhaps that mission after BiA when he
> broke both hands.
>
> // Bo Johansson
>
> P.S. Not a good idea to include the whole digest as a quote...
> --
> Lois-Bujold mailing list
> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
> http://lists.herald.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold


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