[LMB] LMB] EoA Now ON TOPIC!!!! was Re: gender changing

Ray RayLists at quixnet.net
Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:11:13 -0500

RosinaRowantree at aol.com wrote:

>Bo Johansson wrote: As long as there are more "mothers" (ovarian cultures) 
>than generations, there need not be any inbreeding.
>"They only need to keep records, and not let any of a man's descandants have 
>a son with the same mother. And I think they originally had at least 50 
>different ovarian cultures."
>Ray wrote: "Actually, after five or six generations, the genetic information 
>would be diluted enough that it would be safe to use that culture again.
>"On the other hand, if you were unwilling to reuse a culture, you would go 
>through 64 cultures in six generations, and 128 cultures in seven generations."
>No, Bo is right, because the 'mother's' culture is a totally fresh lot of 
>genetic information, with no input either from any of the male progenitors, or 
>any of the other cultures.  The progression Ray mentions would only apply if 
>both sides were descended from previous generations.
>Athosian 1 uses culture A; his son 1A has a son by culture B, and is 25% A, 
>25% 1 and 50% B, his son is descended from A & B, & C, none of which contains 
>the same genetic material as the other.  Thus they have 26 generations without 
>running out of letters.  Athosian 2 can vary the order, so that 20 generations 
>on each individual may be a mix of the same genes (except for the original 
>male) but has different proportions of each.
Take my original calculation and shift it by one generation.

Generation 1: mother A
Generation 2: grandmother A, mother B
Generation 3: great grandmothers A and C, grandmother B, mother D
Generation 4: great great grandmothers A, C, E, F, great grandmothers B, 
G, grandmother D, mother H

The number of female ancestors doubles each generation, as does the 
number of male ancestors.

Still, after a few generations, the genetic material gets diluted.

On the other hand, fifty or a hundred original mothers, mixed and 
matched over the generations, is not a whole lot of genetic diversity 
for an entire planet.  How many original male settlers were there?  In 
the long run, the genetic diversity can be thought of as coming from the 
sum of all the original settlers and ovarian cultures.

By the same token, Barrayar started out with a limited gene pool.  A 
couple generations of mixing with the galactics has helped that, but 
probably not as much as the Komarran terrorists claimed.

>And on the subject of incest, Janos was not Ethan's half brother, but a 
>'step-brother' - neither father nor maternal culture being the same.  I don't think 
>Janos was bred from Ethan's father's maternal culture either - I think that 
>was just the first two sons.  It is as well that they don't see the ovarian 
>culture as a 'person' - relationships would get too confused!

We're not talking about incest in the genetic sense.  The built-in 
(instinctive) 'taboo' seems to be linked to growing up in the same 
household, not any actual genetic similarity.  As someone else pointed 
out, we are attracted to people who are similar to our family of origin, 
but who haven't grown up with us. [1]

I believe Ethan and Janos were raised in the same house by Ethan's dad 
and Ethan's dad's DA.  Ethan and Janos should have about as much 
romantic inclination for each other as two unrelated children who were 
adopted as infants, but raised together in the same family.

Ray Drouillard

[1] There also seems to be an attraction to people who are *different* 
from us.

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