[LMB] ListBiz was: little boys in women's bathrooms

[Azalais Aranxta]

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Eli Toft wrote:

> On 8/23/06, Marna Nightingale <marna at marna.ca> wrote:
> > Eli Toft wrote:
>
> Seems to me that the list, in general, has a pretty good sense of humor.

This is the kind of thing Marna was talking about when she
referred to "passive-aggressive slaps at people".  Your choice to
include the aside, "in general", made it very clear that you
believe that there are specific members who do not have a good
sense of humour.  Since you have been arguing with several
people, it is quite clear who you mean.

You can of course claim that you never intended the sentence to
be read that way, but unless English is your second language, it
seems unlikely that you are completely unaware of the
implications of this sentence structure.

> > Also, just because someone doesn't laugh at your attempts to be funny
> > doesn't necessarily mean that that person lacks a sense of humour.
>
> Where did I say that?

That wasn't a quote.

> I am offended by your false accusation.  Who are you to accuse
> me of something I did not say?

Your comment, "quiet?" placed directly under the attribution to
quietann, appears to be a joke at her expense, and not a nice
one.  If you had not intended it to be, I expect your reaction to
being told this would not be "How dare you accuse me falsely" but
rather, something along the lines of "Oh, no, I didn't mean that!
I was referring to something else, my goodness, I'm so sorry!"

> How dare you offend me a new person, etc etc. etc.

New people are cut slack for not knowing the particular rules of
the list, such as "use asterisks in swear words" or "if someone
calls OT3, you have to drop the topic."  We do expect new people
to know the general rules of polite behaviour in the language
they're using, though we make allowances for those to whom it is
a second language.

> It's all relative.....isn't it?  Or do you use two different
> rule books?

There's not a rule book, but there are several FAQs, which you
should read. I believe you can find them all at
http://www.dendarii.org.

However, most people are more willing to indulge someone they
know, because they know the person well enough to know when a
gaffe is exactly that as opposed to being a deliberate insult.

> > > I insulted no one.  I asked if the topics that I found upon my
> > > arrival were ordinary or habitual.
>
> > In a fault-picking tone with what was, minimally, an ill judged comment
> > on a specific listee's moniker as an opening hook.
>
> It was junk talk.  And now you want me to beg pardon for calling "Tripe!"?

Ross has already dealt with the matter of who gets to decide what
Lois finds insulting.  I will deal with this.  "Junk" and "Tripe"
are insulting words.  If you don't like the subject matter of the
conversations in progress, start new ones.  Insulting people
doesn't usually change anything except their opinion of you.

> I live by principles.  They are not relative to your sensitivities.

How nice for you.

> Objective commentary is just that.  Objective!

I agree.  But you've made no objective commentary whatsoever.
You've appealed to my sense of humour and you've called the
discussions junk and tripe.  None of those things is objective.
They are all subjective.  What is one person's junk may be highly
useful to a second person.  Many people like tripe.  And
individual senses of humour are exactly that, individual.

Objective statements can be proven using logic and reference to
fact.

"You look like a slut" is a subjective statement.  And also an
insulting one.

"That outfit does not meet the modesty standards of this
community, which may be found in this book," is an objective
statement.

Calling the conversation "junk talk" is more like which of these
approaches?

> You want to attack me for expressing my own opinions about
> ideas and how they are expressed?

There's a big difference between objecting to your expressing
your opinions and objecting to the way that they're expressed.
If you want to tell me that you don't think the cinnamon I've
added to my cake has improved the flavour, that's just fine.  If
you don't say that, but rather dump the cake in my cat's litter
box and say, "that's where it belongs," I don't feel I'm out of
line in asking you to leave my house.

I know that you know the difference.  If you have any friends,
you have to know the difference.  And the fact that we are online
and not in someone's house does not change this.

~malfoy
****************************************************************
Azalais Aranxta (~malfoy)
ataniell93 on LiveJournal and Vox
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/malfoymadness

"I know the true world, and you know I do. But we needn't let it
think we all bow down." --Christopher Morley