Subject: Re: [LMB] Anime?? (Re: SP: TSK is a Big Fat Greek Wedding)

Elizabeth McCoy arcangel at
Fri Dec 8 13:41:31 GMT 2006

At 4:08 PM -0800 12/7/06, Azalais Aranxta wrote:
[...]>On Thu, 7 Dec 2006, Elizabeth McCoy wrote:

(I'll slash an' burn on the quotes...)

>> At 1:47 PM -0800 12/7/06, Azalais Aranxta wrote:
>> [...]
>> >I guess what I wonder is why people love Ranma, because they
>> >surely do, but I just don't GET it.
>> To actually tie that back into something that's approaching topic...
>Well, I suppose so.  But you know, I sort of don't feel that this
>is a manga that is *about* those issues, because 90% of it is
>boob jokes, butt jokes and other

About? No, hardly. As you say below and I'm going to probably quote-
trim violently, Takahashi's writing primarily for boys. She's not 
working some deliberate subtext into it. I think that subtext is 
_there,_ because it's what's driving the underlying theme and humor 
(boys being the ones who are working through cultural stereotypes of
what it means to be a guy, and who would probably being unable to 
look at the whole thing seriously at their ages, anyway) -- but
I don't think that she's sitting down, giggling to herself, and 
putting in subversive, mature subliminals.

I'm just trying to analyze _why_ I kept watching it, when Lum (I
can't remember the proper series name, argh) didn't catch me with
any real interest. And those are the themes I came up with.

(I hadn't noticed the butt jokes so much, myself. More the 
breast/chest/bra ones, Ranma putting his foot in his mouth, 
Ryoga getting lost, Mousse being blind-myopic, and everyone 
of the appropriate gender chasing Ranma and Akane with kidnapping 
when they can.)

I'm not saying, "OMG! it iz sooooo grate! u gotta watch!" I'm
just saying what parts of it hooked _me._ (And it's true, I 
haven't managed to see the full run of anime, though I have the
full run of manga.)

[Re bit that I snipped and then came back to in my head, argh]
(I don't think that she's writing for _just_ the nerdy boys, 
considering how the heck rich she is. There's gotta be some kind
of crossover going on there.)

>> (I note that this "oh, and here's a drabble of the underlying
>> plot, since you've stuck with us for the last five episodes" is
>> apparently some kind of Japanese tradition. It crops up in

>That's really typical of boys' shows.  (Sorry, but comics and
>animation in Japan are really marketed toward one gender or the

Oh, that much I know! You don't want to know how much manga this
place has in it. *shiftyeyes* (Though there are enough female 
fans of Saiyuki and Bleach that I think the lines may be blurring;
the creators may have realized that Boy's Stories and Hot Guys 
will get crossover sales from at least American women. >_> )

> In girls' shows the plot is much denser, 

I'm not sure I've seen this aspect of things, personally. Sometimes
the plot is much more _apparent,_ but... Hm. I suppose it depends on
if you describe Utena as Shojo or Shonen (shoujo/shounen? curse 
those wandering "U"s!).

And on the other side, the Bleach anime and manga doesn't have
any deep, hidden meta-plot that I've noticed by episode 90something.

>although Sailor Moon which tried to be all things to all people had a 
>problem with Really Stupid Monsters of The Week.  (The manga did not 
>have this problem, only the TV show.)

I've only seen the TV show, when the kid marathoned it. (In subtitle.
I'd _heard_ about the dub... "Cousins" my... left wingfeather.) What
bugged me in that was how many times Tuxedo Kamen showed up to Save
The Day. O:p

>> [...]
>I liked Tenchi in the OAVs, but the series doesn't continue them,
>it retcons them and adds more women who are hot for Tenchi's bod.

There's actually a 3-disc continuation of the original (allegedly)
plotline! We got the 3rd of them recently. It doesn't quite live up
to the really _lush_ promise of the original series, and it does
add Another Girl -- but her opinion of Tenchi seems to be a lot
closer to what OAV Mihoshi and Washuu have. (I've never seen 
Mihoshi as seriously after Tenchi, and Washuu's just a dirty
old broad who thinks his genetics and abilities are interesting;
she never _fights_ over him.)

>> (Now, Ryoko and Ayaka... Talk about a pair of jerks.)
>The character in Tenchi I like best is Sasami.  She got her own
>show, good for her.

We've marathonned that one, too. Kid likes it. (And Cardcaptor
Sakura, though I'm not positive we've done _all_ of that series;
at least all the first season.)

>> PS: I love Nabiki best as well. >_>
>Did she ever get Kuno?  They were the only couple in Ranma I ever
>rooted for.

That was one of the loose ends that never got officially tied up, 
and I honestly can't remember at this early-morning hour if there
was really a lot of hinting about it, or if that was just all the
fanfic that I've ever read on 'em.

At 1:01 AM -0800 12/8/06, Raye Johnsen wrote:
>Tenchi achieved jerkhood with me in OAV 6, when he
>asserted that he wouldn't give up any of the girls. 

You're making me need to go watch the thing again; I'm
blanking on the "give up" versus "give up _on_" -- which,
yeah, they're all pretty darn capable, but he's got a
cultural macho going on that would be doing the "You guy,
you defend them with your life (or at least fight beside
them)" number on him. (And he's the main character (in, as
Azalais points out, a shonen story), and main characters 
_always_ pitch themselves into battle whether or not they're 
the most sensible choices, and then rise to the occasion.)

Anyway, till I go watch it again (side track into wondering
if we have it on DVD or only LD, which only accesses the dub),
I'm honestly having a problem remembering any scene where he
might have said that in a way which was not either
physically protective (you wanna hurt them, any of them, you
go through ME), or emotionally protective (I'm not going
to tell any of them that I like them less than the others, 
or make them feel unwelcome. Except when they blow up the
house, and then I'll apologize later.).

>[...] There's politeness, there's wimpiness, and there's *simulated*
>wimpiness that hides jerkhood.  IMHO, OAV 6 shows,
>loud and clear, that Tenchi is a prime case of Door
>No. 3.

I'm not sure there's any other evidence, though -- he's generally
polite (save when they're genuinely out of bounds, which isn't
hard), winds up enforcing the chore rules because it's hard to
tell a space pirate what to do and she only listens to him (or
gramps?), and does a lot of back-breaking work in the carrot fields.
(And he wound up saving people's lives after getting killed once,
so he's not totally useless, despite the title...)

(I really, really need to find out if we have the DVDs; the
dub is a good one, especially for the time in which it was made,
and the voices are well done, but I haven't seen the subtitles
enough to know if a lot of "BWAH??" changes were made.)

>couple, I realised that they seriously *didn't like*
>each other and that they were canonically smart enough
>to realise this and stay the hell out of each other's
>way. [...]

Except for Nabiki shamelessly exploiting Kuno's pocketbook at 
every opportunity. (I think that's why the fanficcers and anime
paired them off; he's rich and stupid and impulsive. She's mercenary 
and smart and calculating. Comedy match of the first water!)
--Beth, arcangel at 

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