[LMB] Listbiz: 'king of the internet'

[B. Ross Ashley]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 05:48:01 -0500, Lois Aleta Fundis <lfundis at weir.net>
wrote:

 > Azalais Aranxta wrote:
 > > HTML email is the default for yahoo because yahoo is an ISP that
 > > is aimed at people who use the internet very casually and want
 > > lots of bells and whistles and colour in their email. ...
 > There are several other reasons to use Yahoo Mail, even for
 > experienced Internet users.  Such as the convenience of being able
 > to use it from any computer anywhere in the world, even if
 > your regular ISP is unavailable for some reason, and having
 > it integrated with other Yahoo services like My Yahoo or
 > Geocities. And the price is right, namely, free.

It is also possible to get around the HTML default in Yahoo by using it 
through your email client. (I use Thunderbird, and for Yahoo mail I have 
the incoming set to download from pop.mail.yahoo.ca, and outgoing 
through smtp.yahoo.ca ... for directions see 
http://popfwd.mail.yahoo.com/pf/PopFwd?.done=http://ca.f324.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Options?YY=51808&y5beta=yes&ymv=0&y5beta=yes 
or use http://qurl.com/z21r5 if that breaks.)
So far as I know, all my main outgoing through that account is in 
plaintext.

 > > If Yahoo
 > > users think you're being picked on, try complaining to your ISP
 > > for forcing this on you, instead of to the people who actually
 > > are being inconvenienced by the HTML.
[snip]

 > I'm going to repeat this to emphasize it: When I became aware of
 > the problem - however rudely I was notified of it, and it was
 > Peter who first complained in a way that implied I was already
 > aware of it already and was intentionally doing it  -- I tried
 > very hard to figure out what was causing it and whether it was
 > something I could fix, and if so how.
 > It seemed to be a problem in the type of ASCII  (7 bit vs. 8
 > bit)  which apparently Yahoo does differently from some other
 > e-mail clients, some of which couldn't resolve the discrepancy.
 > At least that was one suggestion that came from a listee that
 > was actually trying to be helpful instead of just taking ti
 > as a personal insult.  Thus, even though from my point of view
 > the problem seemed to be in the software being used by a relative
 > few of those *reading* the e-mails, not in what I was using in
 > sending them, I was trying to find a way to solve the
 > problem, and I mentioned several times on the list that I was
 > trying.

I've run across the same problem in webpage editing ... a lot of the 
HTML out there is built specifically for Intarweb Exploder rather than 
to the standards. I try to keep webpages to the real standards so as to 
be readable in any browser I have access to. Including my wife's MSNTV box.
 > Yes, I even tried contacting Yahoo about it (they never answered
 > back).  Meanwhile, all that time Peter and others, but mostly
 > Peter,  were complaining as if I were doing it on purpose, like
 > I wanted my comments to be hard to read!  I don't know if
 > anyone noticed, but I quit posting to the list for months just
 > because I was tired of snarky comments about weird character
 > infecting (apparently otherwise immaculate) e-mails!

I noticed, and missed you.
 > And yes, sometimes I get e-mails or see web pages or LJ posts
 > with strange things in them, usually differences in rendering
 > punctuation or diacritical marks -- usually a difference
 > between Unicode or ASCII codes for such marks. But I don't
 > go around accusing and insulting people! I just accept that
 > different computers and different programs, like different
 > people, do things differently, and they don't always agree.
 > It's not like I can't figure out what they're saying.

If Macros**t would write browsers and email clients that actually met 
the current standards, instead of trying to rewrite the standards to fit 
their attempt to dominate the 'net, we might see better interoperability.
 > All of that is why I was, and am, very offended by Peter
 > calling Jill's e-mail "butt UGLY", caps and all.  That was
 > disgusting, gross, nasty and utterly uncalled for!  (Much ruder
 > even than he had been to me.)  The very term "butt UGLY" is
 > filthy, even borderline obscene, and ought not to be used in
 > polite company at all.   He could simply have pointed out
 > that there was a problem with the lack of spacing and suggested
 > Jill look into fixing it, or if anyone on the list could help
 > suggest a solution.  She certainly didn't intend it to look that way.

True enough. Peter, is there a way to make your legitimate complaints 
more civil? I've run across this very same problem on the other 
listserve I read, the tandem bicycling list, tandem at hobbes.ucsd, and the 
tandemists don't conduct flamewars over it. (Other stuff, yes, like 
Santana's wide rear triangle spacing, but not email formats.)[snip]

 > I don't really want Peter to quit the list either, but I'm not
 > sure he realizes how offensive his attitude is, or even that it
 > comes across that way. And if he insists on being nasty and
 > insulting when, for reasons beyond their control, the formatting
 > of other people's posts offends his obviously delicate
 > sensibilities -- and such problems probably will crop up again,
 > the world being imperfect -- instead of coping with it in more
 > civilized ways  like the rest of us do,  it may be the best
 > thing for all concerned.

Don't leave, Pete, please?

-- 
B. Ross Ashley
http://brashley46.livejournal.com
http://brashley46.no-ip.info
"It would be too painful to think that there are worlds somewhere
where I got everything right."  Sulien, in _The King's Name_, by Jo Walton
Registered Linux user # 402119
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