[LMB] [SPOILERS] Legacy: "Assume it's true ...

[Beth Mitcham]

I'm going to go ahead and put in
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> > Men don't stop patrolling when they marry.  He was supposed to marry
> > in addition to patrolling.  Not just marry; procreate.
>
> Procreation however doesn't require marrying...  and historically in this
> world there was a lot of engendering outside of marriage!

Hmm.  I wish I had my books... I thought Dag said that there was
little birth out of wedlock with the Lakewalkers, but maybe he just
said that it wasn't a problem, since the woman owns her tent.  I don't
think we met any single parent households, and the unconventional one
was, uh, unconventional.  (but not punished)


> Socials rules and "jobs" are not the same thing.  And what if he were
> sterile?!

If he were sterile, he would get sympathy.  They know something about
it, because couples who can't conceive with each other are encouraged
to dissolve and try again with someone else (I think I remember Dag
talking about that).

What do you mean by the difference between social rules and jobs?  Do
you think that Dag wasn't expected to have kids?  I agree that it
wasn't a paid position, like patroller is.  I got the impression from
Dag's aunt that Lakewalkers recognize producing more Lakewalkers to be
a duty as well as a pleasure.  Did you interpret that differently?

I don't think they have rules such that Dag could get fined or
anything for not having kids or not getting married.  But people who
don't care about him probably think he should get married, and people
who do care about him probably wish he could bring himself to think
about it, mainly because that would be a sign of healing.

> Most patrollers seem to retire from patrolling if they survive all that
> long, and do other things--note that there was a push for Dag to stop being
> a patroller and find a vocation that kept him with the rest of his extended
> kinship group.

Well, there was a push for him to expand his making talent, but I'm
not sure that push was there before his expanding making talent.  I
think the main pre-SK push for Dag was towards becoming a
higher-ranked patroller.

> Not everyone is suitable breeding/childrearing stock, and I presume the same
> is true of Lakewalkers.  Dag as successful patroller might be someone wanted
> to be kept in the breeding pool, but still....

Right.  That's why I bet there is social pressure but no fining people
or forcing marriages upon them.   There is a strong push to marry, but
if your reason for resisting is strong enough, you can.

> Bluntly, if his sperm is wanted so badly, there are ways to collect it
> without his consent...

But the whole point is to build a Lakewalker *culture* into the
future, so making kids while destroying the culture won't help.  I
think starting baby farms with turkey baster like methods would create
big problems.  Social pressure is there, and that seems to be enough
for now.

> >> For that matter, would Dag have been happy in a second Lakewalker
> >> marriage?
> >
> > Is Dag's happiness the only thing that matters?
>
> Children of unhappy marriages can become enormous societal problems,

Well, it depends a lot on how the family handles the unhappiness.  The
example of the kids made miserable by their parent's divorce isn't
really a good example of the harms of an unhappy marriage :-).  But
does Dag need to maximize his happiness, or should he go for a
marriage where he'd be content and have some kids?  I don't think
anyone thinks he should plan on being miserable.  Of course, Cumbria
thinks she should get to decide...

> And what about the children then, growing up with a father who's out
> patrolling and isn't going to let himself -care- about those kids, who
> aren't going to see the man who engendered them except the odd few days out
> of a year and a half or more of time.

Well, I think that's how many Lakewalker kids grow up.  Probably Dag
would marry someone whose father was around a lot, or who had brothers
nearby.  It's hard to imagine Dag not caring for his kids, even if he
can't bear to stay long in camp.  Dag's kids would have seen many
other children growing up with dads on patrol.


Beth M.

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