Grace (was Re: [LMB] Re:(chat) series and titles)

Paula Lieberman paal at
Fri Mar 30 02:53:26 BST 2007

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Burbidge" <james.burbidge at>

> On 29/03/07, paal at <paal at> wrote:
>> "Peace" and "hope" do not have overwhelming religious connection to them
>> as emotional states.  That is, "peace" and "hope" get used secularly as
>> state concepts, not so "grace."
> There is a reason for this.
> In it's religious use, "grace" is not an attribute of a creature, as
> "hope" is; it's a characteristic of God.  Therefore there is no
> emotional state corresponding to it to be used in a secular cointext.

Yes!  That was I was bumbling around trying to indicate, but not able to 
articulate, which you did above.

> In secular use, "grace" is an attribute of a person (used of manners,
> deportment, etc.), but it's not an emotional state.
> So the parallel with "peace" or "hope" breaks down.

I agree.

> I suppose a better parallel would be "Charity River".  The word has a
> technical meaning in theology, but it also has a very distinct and
> different meaning on a day-to-day basis.  Does use in a context like
> that automatically raise religious associations?

It doesn't to me--it's not "a characteristic of God" as you defined "grace" 
as being above.  "If charity means giving, I give to YOU! and fidelity is 
only for your mate! You'll never find a Virtue outstatusing my quo..." 
(from Mordred's song in Lerner & Lowe's Camelot)   Courage, Purity, 
Humility, Honesty, Diligence, Charity, Fidelity, and if it weren't for that 
song, I wouldn't be able to list them!   Charity is a characteristic/virtue 
a person can exhibit, have, it's not a deity putting a person into aspect. 

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