[LMB] OT: stalkers

Wed May 23 23:41:17 BST 2007

On Wed, 23 May 2007, Phil Boswell wrote:

> On 23/05/07, Azalais Aranxta <tiamat at tsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Can you tell me what possible good it does me or a man who wants
> > to go out with me to leave a bunch of things that conform to a
> > stereotype, things I might not even want, on my doorstep,
> > indefinitely, without ever asking me out?
>
> Is "stereotype" another of these newly-dirty words? Would
> conforming to the stereotype of "being a nice chap" be so bad?

There isn't a stereotype for that so far as I know.  Nice people
manage to be different from each other all the time.

If you're talking about one of those Nice Guys who always wonders
why he can't get a date, then that's a stereotype, and one I
definitely don't want to be dating.

> > A flower at my desk or door a couple times before being asked
> > out, fine.  A crapload of stuff that someone else has decided
> > means "romance" left on my doorstep whether I want it or not, and
> > a bunch of anonymous letters?  IS CREEPY.
>
> Whereas some other people might like that: obviously Your Mileage
> Varies. Maybe he tried it on a girl before, and it worked.

And I'm not her.

> > A person who was really in love with me would know what I wanted
> > and give me that.  But a person who was really in love with me
> > would TALK to me.
>
> How is someone supposed to find out what you want, never mind find out
> whether they're really in love with you?

It seems to me that if you are genuinely attracted to someone you
would know something about them.  Certainly if you are attracted
enough to someone to go to the effort of dropping a lot of
anonymous STUFF at her place, letting her know that a) you are
after her and b) you know where she lives, you are up to the
challenge of finding out whether she'd rather have a funny card
and a voucher for Amazon.com than a dozen roses?

But frankly, anything that costs more than $5 from a stranger is
creepy because WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE ONE OF THEM, there are many
men in the world who expect a return on their investment when
they spend money on a woman, and unless we've talked to you, we
don't know that you are not one of them.

I'm actually not difficult to talk to; many listies can verify
this from personal experience.  I am kind of hard to get to talk
to privately online because I've been stalked online &c, but in
RL, say at a con?  I am pretty approachable.  It ought to be
possible to determine, if you've spent enough time talking to me
to be able to tell that you'd like to date me, that the best way
to reach me is through some shared fannish obsession.

> Frankly, back when I was still looking for my special someone,
> you would likely have scared me out of several years' growth
> and back into my shell.

I doubt you would ever have gone for me.  But I know I'm a strong
personality and I would never go out with someone who needed to
be handled like glass, so it's just as well.

> But we're not supposed to be traditional men any more, didn't
> you get the memo? We're supposed to be sensitive and caring
> (but not touchy-feely, that gets you arrested) and leave our
> balls at the door.

I don't actually think so.  You're supposed to PAY ATTENTION.
That's not so hard.  Men do it all the time when they are trying
to get jobs or make friends or play games.  Just be observant.
Don't send the biggest box of chocolates in the store to someone
who's been telling everyone about the great new diet she's on.
Listen to what women you claim to be interested in actually say
about themselves.

This is what most people do when they actually are trying to get
something of value.  Behaving in a way that suggests I'm not any
different from any other woman in the world doesn't incline me to
treat you like something special.

> In any case, a "traditional man" would be more likely to do all
> the things you said above you hated: which way around did you
> want it?

I want to go out with a human being.  I quite like being given
presents, wined and dined.  Most people do, actually.  The
traditional model of dating works perfectly well for me provided
that the gentleman in question is actually interested in ME and
not in filling a hole in a portrait of the family he wants to
have.

I want it to come from someone who has actually spent some
time talking to me and paying attention to me.  I would like to
get a dozen roses on my birthday from someone I've been dating
for six months or even from a good platonic friend, but not from
an anonymous source whose intentions are unknown to me.

I mean, I really fail to comprehend what you could possibly write
in a love letter to someone you've never spoken ten words to.
For there to be serious attraction beyond the physicalities,
there has to be some knowledge of the other person.  It's all got
to be about the person's physical attributes, and there is
nothing so uncomfortable as the notion that someone who has spent
70 dollars on roses and has taken the time to find out where I
live, but not to say word one to me, is thinking too hard about
my body.

If you actually like someone as a person, you won't do this.

~malfoy :)

****************************************************************
Azalais Aranxta (~malfoy)
ataniell93 on LiveJournal and Vox
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/malfoymadness

"I know the true world, and you know I do. But we needn't let it
think we all bow down." --Christopher Morley