[LMB] "Civilization isn't just electricity."

[anmar mirza]

On 2/8/08, Tora K. Smulders-Srinivasan <tora.smulders at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2/8/08, anmar mirza <anmar.mirza at gmail.com> wrote:
> > *Any* form of energy we use will have some type environmental cost!
> Absolutely.  Wasn't saying otherwise.


I know, but it's a point that seems to get lost a *lot*.  "We can't do
X because Y(bad consequences) will happen."  Which ignores that
the consequences of Z, the current way we do things, is about ten
times worse than Y.


> about this talked about current wind farms that are already killing
> specific birds.  And the birds weren't migrating, they just lived on
> the coast.  And kept getting killed by the blades.


Yep, and there are a few other species that get impacted (bats and insects)
Other than that, the other main environmental cost of wind is that of
infrastructure and
maintenance, both of which are a fraction of the environmental costs of
nuclear or coal.
It may be that in fifty years we find some hidden unintended consequences
and will
have to deal with those as well.  In the meantime, the killing of birds is a
result that may be able to be mitigated as we learn more.  Changing the
entire
climate will most likely kill far more birds than wind farms on their
own, and acid rain certainly has by killing off entire forests.

Photovoltaics suffer from a nasty manufacuring process (one that is being
cleaned up but still produces a lot of hazardous wastes).   There's no real
good answer, so I for one reduced my energy consumption and try to make up
for it in other areas of my life.  It probably has very little effect in the
long
run, but it's what I can do.



> Absolutely.  I never said otherwise.  I was just commenting that I
> hadn't realized that something like wind farming could have these
> kinds of effects.  Most of the complaints I'd heard before that were
> of the NIMBY variety -- ruining the skyline, etc.


Heh.  I have the least sympathy for those complaints :)  I like the way
wind turbines look, I think they're pretty.  All those folks off Nantucket
who have been NIMBYing that project should be forced to live without
power.  But then, the rich have always forced the poor to suffer
for the rich to live their lifestyle.

Anyway, didn't mean to rant at you, it's just one of those topics
near to my heart.  I've had too much experience with folks who never
would have cared about bats try to use them as an excuse as to
why X shouldn't be done.  Or any of several other things I've contributed
to the science of.




-- 
Anmar Mirza EMT, N9ISY, Central Region NCRC Coordinator, Owner Lost Creek
Packs, blog.myspace.com/anmarmirza)