[LMB] Ivan's love life (was Ivan and ???)

[Elizabeth Holden]

--- Paula Lieberman <paal at gis.net> wrote:

> There are differencies between "idiot" and "stupid."

Granted, but to my eyes, Ivan is not stupid and he is not an idiot.  He is, in fact, not just
intelligent, but loyal and true - qualities I admire in a hero. And he is often unappreciated by
those he loves most.

I'd say Ivan's common sense is far greater than Miles'.  This is not to criticize either of them.
Miles loves risk - thrives on it.  Ivan doesn't, but Ivan understands Miles' risk-taking, knows he
can't control it, and is well able to pick up the debris behind Miles.

> Common sense and intelligence are NOT correlated.  "That idiot Ivan!" 
> referred to Ivan lacking in what Aral regarded as reasonable amounts of clue 
> and awareness.  

I don't agree at all. I think it applied to Ivan's lack of ambition and drive.  Aral has a family
of high-achievers. Ivan was not a high-achiever, he was a 'get by with the minimum' kind of guy. 
Which is enough to drive people like Aral and Cordelia nuts.  They have trouble understanding how
anyone can fail to want to excell.

> Anyway, I;m thinking of some o the  typical young rather heedless male 
> characters in Heyer... not exacty Sir Peregrine Taverner because he fell in 
> love and wanted to get married at a quite young age, but maybe--ah, the 
> brother of the lead male in The Grand Sophy, who was next oldest son in the 
> family.

I think that is there in Ivan's conceputual creation, yes, but Ivan soon exceeded that.

> was too busy gallivanting around to notice when the supply of eligible 
> interesting females of his own social stratum started evaporating.   

He was smart enough to know what he didn't want.  Which includes or included marriage to a random
Vor female.

> Ivan got on my less than complimentary side with his treatment and attitudes 
> towards women--rather callous and unthinking and exploitationist.  

While I see him as very appreciative of them.  He doesn't want to settle down, and he hasn't
fallen in love, but he loves sex, and he loves beautiful women, so he finds women who also don't
want to settle down. I love that.

namaste,
Elizabeth