[LMB] (was) Dono - (Now) Is Barrayaran homosexuality a'MUTATION'?

Paula Lieberman paal at gis.net
Tue Jan 4 01:04:37 GMT 2011


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Royce McDaniels" <roycemcdaniels158 at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." 
<lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [LMB] (was) Dono - (Now) Is Barrayaran homosexuality 
a'MUTATION'?


> this is an artifact of three factors:
>
> 1) lack of reliable contraception. Until women could control their
> pregnancies, any man who could seduce them (or any woman eager for sex) 
> was
> a potential unwanted pregnancy/mouth to feed.
> 2) lack of control over sexual diseases. We no longer fear syphillis or
> gonnorhea or a host of other sexually transmitted diseases, (AIDS being 
> our
> own brief encounter but soon managed if poorly) but in the Good Old Days
> where most of our social memes come from, anyone who had much sex with 
> more
> than one person was likely to a) get an STD and b) transmit it to other
> partners, often with terrible consequences.
> 3) the problem of sodomy, specifically male rape of other males. This is 
> of
> course evil but in most cultures prior to ours, it was considered the ONLY
> form of homosexual male behavior, and often viewed as targeting children. 
> we
> know these are false stereotypes, our ancestors did not.

Um. What I heard from WWII veterans with experience with European 
militaries, was that "bend over if you want to ever get promoted' was 
extremely common.

What societies laws are, and what the society does, don't always match  I 
forget the title of the book about homosexual in Florence around the time of 
the di'Medici reign there.  There were laws against "sodomy' but Florence 
was notorious for it  It even had the class "notorious sodomite" and 
residents exiled for various periods of time if convicted of being 
"notorious sodomites."  The book used the extant records, which have gaps 
because of a flood a few decades back which wiped out some of the archives.

Going back in time to the Classical world of Rome and Greece, Hadrian was in 
relationships with other men, and of course there were Alexander and his 
male partners, and the Theban Sacred Banders; I wonder what -hasn't- been 
translated from Chinese and Japanese that's pre-western invasions/social 
flux.  There are shamanistic traditions that were in Siberia and the 
Americans involving transgendering, also....

> bottom line, ANY sex outside of the small amounts needed to father/mother
> then next generation was a) dangerous b) potentially economically 
> disastrous
> and c) if non-hetero, probably rapine. thus people who didn't seem to need

Condoms are NOT new inventions, the ancient Egyptians, even, had them.... 
regarding prophylaxis and birth control.  The Romans used an extinct member 
of the carrot/parnsip family for fertility control (until their 
overharvesting caused it to become extinct).

> sex were SAFE and easy to hold up as role models. add in all the
> misinterpretations of judeo-christian sexual doctrines, and the mix just
> gets uglier.
>
> we still see the echo of it today in the abortion debate.
>
> button-pushed royce
>
> On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Elizabeth Holden <azurite at rogers.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> What I mean is that people without sex drive are taken to be exemplars of
>> desirable behaviour, while people who are highly sexed are denigrated as
>> superficial, promiscuous, dangerous and often villainous - especially if
>> they are not strictly heterosexual.
>>
>> People with low sex drive aren't ignored, they're taken as the default
>> norm.




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