[LMB] Vor Hatred was Vor Class Permeability

Keith Wells dkwells66 at gmail.com
Tue Jan 18 21:59:23 GMT 2011


> From: Tel <teldreaming at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." <
> lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:03:47 -0800
> Subject: Re: [LMB] Vor class permeability, was Komarr and Rho Ceta (map)
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:49 AM, Lois McMaster Bujold
> <lbujold at myinfmail.com> wrote:
> > [LMB] Komarr and Rho Ceta (map)
> > Tel teldreaming at gmail.com
> > Tue Jan 18 07:29:41 GMT 2011
> >
> >
> > Galeni's family (or perhaps some other Galens) are recent additions to
> > the pre-invasion Komarran oligarchy, along with at least one other
> > family. Meanwhile, no new Vor have been created in - how long? (not
> > that I'm advocating the creation of new Vor). Males and females can
> > become elite and marry in to the elite on Komarr, only females can
> > marry in on Barrayar.
> >
> >
> > ***  Counterfactual -- or counterfactoidial -- to textev.  In more than
> one
> > place, there is complaint about "such a distressingly high percentage of
> Vor
> > maidens being carried off to preside over the households" of
> up-and-coming
> > non-Vor entrepreneurs.
> >
> > I don't think most Vor grandparents will much distinguish among their
> > offspring with or without the extra syllable.
> >
> > If you are defining the elite only as the 60 countships, of course, most
> Vor
> > are also excluded.
>
> I'm defining elite as people who have a formal say in Imperium-level
> governance which (as of ACC) doesn't appear to include any Komarrans
> or woman yet. Mentions of Ministers "and their wives". Etc. So
> comparing the 200 Komarran Counselors to the Counts and Ministers in
> joint council assembled, and maybe Viceroys/Auditors/so on.
>
> re: supreme court justices and so on. I'm taking most of my cues on
> how Gregor uses his appointment power from his Auditors and (shock!)
> they're overwhelmingly male Vor. He was also trying to put Miles in
> charge of ImpSec, an agency that really really really should be run by
> someone not anywhere near the succession.
>
> >
> > So there's less chance of upward movement into
> > the circles of power after the occupation, and your average Komarran
> > has little to no chance.
> >
> >
> > ***
> > Also, Laisa, I am sure, was not the only cross-cultural marriage, here.
>  War
> > brides and grooms on all levels, going in both directions.  Ref: in the
> book
> > you haven't seen yet (and never may, at this rate) to a Greekie tech
> > sergeant who married a Komarran girl and retired to Solstice to open up a
> > Greekie restuarant...
> >
> > Re: making more Vor -- or not -- that remains a debate at least by _ACC_.
> >  The three options are, roughly:  keep the system tight to the 60 extant
> > countships on the North Continent, while the Imperium grows around it
> until
> > it is just a fraction of the whole  (reducing the power of the counts by
> > outgrowing them);
>
> Ah. Here's the main point. As long as the Council of Counts have a
> serious say/veto in what happens to the Imperium as a whole (and they
> still do as seen in various votes - mirror appropriations, so on), the
> growth of the Imperium only increases their power at the expense of
> people who aren't Counts. Growing the Imperium only diminishes the
> Counts' relative power if their area of legislative jurisdiction is
> limited to North Continent. As it is, the interests of the North
> Continent Vor elite alone seems to be formally represented in
> government.
>
> -Tel
>
>
Tel, we get.  You hate the Vor.  But yours is the decidedly minority
viewpoint here.  Most of the rest of us like them, and aren't that concerned
about the politics because the politics have zero impact on rather we like
the story.  What politics there are in the stories are there to further the
plot, not to say this is the way the universe has to be.

The textual evidence we have from the one book set on Komarr is that the
general population has come to appreciate and accept being part of the
Barrayaran Empire, and they are not looking to throw it off.  Lois herself
has said they are accepting it.  So leave off unless you want to emigrate
yourself to Komarr and start the second Revolution.  Just be aware there
isn't an Aral Vorkosigan in command to control the Barrayaran response this
time.

Your constant harping back to your minority viewpoint is actually off
putting to many here on the list, diminishing our enjoyment of the topics
discussed.  Every time it looks like this discussion has been put away, you
are the one bringing it back up.  Komarran political discussions have had
completed triple pizza calls at least twice to my knowledge.  The discussion
goes elsewhere, then brushes back near Komarr and you bring it back up, and
it is annoying.

Keith Wells



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