[LMB] OT: Effects of "Global Warming"
paal at gis.net
Tue Sep 13 15:24:03 BST 2011
There's been talk of a civil works project to bring water from the
Mississippi to dry but farmed parts of the USA south and west of the
Mississippi, which project has never happened.... despite the Tennessee
Valley Authority providing federally subsidized (federal taxes having paid
for the construction and administration at least for the initial costs of
the project) power and water to people in that region of the USA, and flood
control, and federally subsidized water flowing most of the length of
California, especially from north to south via huge waterworks including
Heechheechee I think it's call water redistribution canal or tunnel or some
such, also with significant diversion from the Colorado River. The citizens
of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts paid and continue to pay a steep price
for the construction of Quabbin and Wachusetts Reservoirs and distribution
of water from them eastward to most of eastern Massachusetts for supplying
water, and the citizens of New York state paid high for water distribution
in that state to places which include New York City.
The citizens of one California locality on the other side of San Francisco
Bay from San Francisco, rejected have a water desalinization plant installed
at essentially no charge to them, because it would mean population growth,
they apparently preferred having the place burn down from a lack of water
during dought times instead (I can;t rmember the name of the place, it had
an FS-7 radar ontop of a hill, and I remember talking to someone there who
was describing the burning wildfires in the vicinity which were visible from
the radar site, back in the mid to late 1970s...)
One of the things which got civilization started in various parts of the
world, were national-level waterworks projects for flood control and
agricultural use and provision of water for citizens--China with its
waterworks, Mesopotamia, Egypt with channels of water from the Nile, Central
and South America with terracing and water channels and canals, the
waterworks in what is today the US Southwest of canals... things which take
massed coordination of large numbers of people digging and building and
maintaining.... there is a huge underground water distribution system which
extends from mountains in Asia out into the deserts, which goes back to at
least the Persian Empire. Destruction of the water distribution system in
Afghanistan during the war in which the USSR attempted to takeover the
country in pursuit of the goal of getting a warm water port (take over
Afghanistan and keep going south...) and the failure to rebuild it after the
USSR pulled out, created the anarchy and armed fanatical in effect fiefdoms
of fanatics which resulted in mass murder atrocities worldwide--New York
City and Washington DC were far from the only targets and mass murder sites
of Al Qaeda atrocities, others includes the railways of Spain, packed
nightclubs in countries with substantial Islamic populations (alcohol is
supposed to be forbidden in Islam, and facilities which serve it, were among
the Al Qaeda targets), embassies and a total lack of concern for "collateral
damage" to the citizens of the countries Al Qaeda was bombing embassies
in.... 9/11 was the most spectacular Al Qaeda operation, but it was one
operation set among dozens of mass murder attacks operations.
The waterworks in the southwestern USA failed to sustain the civilizations
there, because even when there is an extensive irrigation system, if the
water -sources- for the irrigation system dry up, the irrigation systems
fail, and the land won't sustain agriculture for people to survive on
As for deep drilling, the aquifers which farmers -were- pumping from for
decades in the USA, have been drying up, and some have become unfit for use
even with water still in the aquifer, either due to becoming brinier and
brinier as water level dropped due to all pumping operations reducing the
amount of water and the mineral and salt concentration going up in the
remaining water, or due to salt water coming into the aquifer (a problem on
Cape Cod, which is surrounded by salt water, and/or contamination (fracking
has been doing that lately, as one of the newer causes of contamination, as
opposed to agricultural chemicals and pesticides and herbicides from lawn
chemicals, and industrial wasted and illegal dumping of other than ag
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:03 AM
To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold.
Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Effects of "Global Warming"
On 9/12/2011 10:36 PM, phoenix at ugcs.caltech.edu wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 06:48:58PM -0700, Mitch Miller wrote:
>> How do we know the climate of 1900 is the best of all possible worlds?
> This year's drought has killed off much of Texas's cattle industry;
> consider if those conditions become the new normal. Consider what
> happens if the Colorado river mostly dries up due to drough and glacial
Rob pointed out that the farmers he is accustomed to [Central Valley
near Fresno] drill deep wells and do not depend on rainfall, and also
subscribe to the canal system. He did not understand why in hell the
ranchers did not drill and depended on surface water and rainfall. He
hoped they were up to date on insurance payments otherwise they were
foolish. I tend to agree with him.
> Consider if the Northeast, mostly not built for hurricanes,
> starts getting annual hurricanes. Consider the monsoon cycle of India
> stops, on which most of their agriculture depends. Or the currents of
> the north Atlantic shutdown, depriving Europe of its unusually warm
> climate. Results range from "regional economies dies" to "hundreds of
> millions of people die".
And what to do with the morons who hear that a hurricane is coming and
either do not evacuate or actually GO to the damned beach to watch the
hurricane roll in.
People adapt or die. Simple. I guess that is applied Darwinism [in the
parlance of one of the 'Ship Who' novels.] I think people who build on
flood plains and coastal zones that get hit by hurricanes regularly are
foolish. YMMV. When I lived in Tidewater I evacuated when hurricanes
were announced well in advance. If I was in western Europe or
Scandanavia that was dependent on the Gulf Stream, I would consider
adding greenhouses and fuel gas generation plants that ferment sewage
into methane to run heating systems and power generation plants to
produce longer season fruits and vegetables, and conduct trade with
countries in more equitable climes for bulk grains and large animals
that graze. [bunnies and chickens can be fed on veggie culls and scraps
but some people want hogs and cows.]
Historically as the growing season shortened making even barley
impractical the northern cultures either tried to move south or went to
a more nomadic lifestyle [semmi and other transarctic nomadic cultures]
We can't let our Scandanavian buddies go viking any more, though they
can emmigrate, or modify the environment to survive. Greenhouses and
methane production is a good logical start.
>> Why or from what source do you derive that we have a right to be free
>> from climate change?
> Our desire for a secure food supply.
>> What do we do if we've prepared for global warming, but, as some
>> scientists believe, global warming causes a new Ice Age?
> As worded this question doesn't even make sense. It's not based on
> much, either; 1970s concerns about global cooling were nothing like the
> modern scientific consensus.
> -xx- Damien X-)
As I said, in place of preparing to sweat from the heat, we prepare to
without denuding the world of trees. I personally would love to see
produce food in a short season environment. We prepare to keep warm hundreds
of new nuke plants being built, and the current crop of them
offlined and replaced with newer and better designed ones. I would like
to see a move into space, and exploration on Mars and the asteroid belt.
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