[LMB] Ezar - - the hand he was dealt
paal at gis.net
Fri Sep 16 16:16:25 BST 2011
Staying AWAY from Banned Topic,
Consider Savonarola in Florence, who came to power excoriating the decadence
of the di'Medici, and was such a ranting intolerant fanatic of a religious
zealot, he was after a few years excommunicted by the Pope and the very
people of Florence who had propelled him to leading the city, burned him at
the stake for his extremism. Initially they were swept up in his ideology
and intensity and message, they took their luxurious goods and piled them
high to be set fire to as "the bonfire of the vanities." They promoted his
extremist intolerant bigot agenda. And eventually they broke with him, and
put him to death for his inflexibility and continued extremism.
Being sensible sometimes not only doesn't get on into power, it gets one
ostracized. In the case of Savonarola, those who wanted paths of
moderation, got thrown aside or trampled in the onslaught of citizens
heeding Savonarola;s charisma and messages. Over time his glamor dissipated
enough that people grew severely disillusioned with him and their
disenchantment mutated into lethal hostility....
Engineers tend to want to go on hard data and not Credo. Appeals to emotion
yanking work less well on technical types generally, who want "hard proof"
and/or mathematical substantiation, and not silver-tongued oratory making
people feel empowered by the words/speaking style of the orator, and by
messages of the orator of uniting against common enemies, the strategy of
identifying scapegoats and uniting in grabbing the hapless scapegoats
and -propelling- them down onto the rocks to die in a bloody spectacle of an
even Dionyistically full of emotion rite....
What that has to do with Ezar... hmmm. Ezar needed to capture the if not
loyalty, acquisence of the Council of Counts. How much did -their-
interests and preconceptions and prejudices and self-motivations affect
Ezar's actions and reign, I wonder? Aral ran into hidebound conservative,
and hidebound conservatively ambitious and/or radical Counts in
conspiracies... and that was after Ezar's rule, and Ezar's massive
decapitation operation against the War Party.
From: Karen Hunt
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 7:10 AM
To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold.
Subject: Re: [LMB] Ezar - - the hand he was dealt
This is rapidly turning into the kind of thread I no longer want to
take part in, but....
As regards Serg's power to make things worse, that sort of thing is
easy to do and doesn't require the real use of power. It simply
requires that he not make any attempt to be a good leader and he
collects vile people around him. There are enough real-world examples
of success at such leadership as not to require more said than that.
As regards Aral's ability to make things better in general, regardless
of circumstances, I think he'd have had a very hard time if the war
party hadn't been taken out by Ezar.
As regards Ezar's power or lack thereof....
Ok. There are severe limits to what I can discuss here, but I am a
techie who sometimes has had real power. Note "sometimes." I have
considerable expertise in certain fields, and I've been "right" at
enough strategic moments that people listen when I speak up.
Any power has limits and fluctuates considerably over time.
There is discussion of this simple fact in canon -- see Miles'
conversations with Galeni in BIA, Miles' conversations with Gregor at
the start of VG, and Cordelia's talk with Aral about what her power on
her Survey Ship is in SOH. There are more places as well.
Basically, regardless of how autocratic a government system is, how
much power an individual person has when they speak up is a weird mix
of quite a few things:
1) How right they actually are in what they say.
2) How much other people want what they say to be right. And which
3) How right they've been in the past when they've said other
(preferably similar) things.
4) Their actual job title and the assumed power and knowledge of said job.
5) How expensive it is if they turn out to be wrong. (How expensive
it is to be right, too.)
6) How "strange" what they say is perceived as being.
7) Whether the person speaking "looks like" what an expert is supposed
to look like.
8) Whether the people who don't like what's being said have an agenda
that is harmed by these statements. (This is a variation on 2,
9) When you speak and who you speak to first can be extremely important.
10) Other factors exist, and I won't rule out phase of moon as mattering,
Whether Ezar could have made a Betan-style democracy appear looks very
questionable to me. The counts won't like it at all, the people
underneath will view it as strange, and it'll be very expensive at the
start. Further, he's got severely traumatized people beneath him, who
won't like any new systems at all. (Mind you, I really doubt he'd
have favored anything of the sort anyway, as has been pointed out
Whether Aral could have done the same? Not at first, that's clear
enough. He certainly doesn't believe it's possible, judging from his
comments about that being a "prescription for civil war" at the start
of B. Whether he could have done so later is a judgment call on the
part of the author, not me. Considering that he gets three major wars
during his regency, I'd say no he couldn't if it were up to me. This
sort of changing the world requires quite a few particulars of whether
there's a stable enough period with enough things being done "right"
to get away with such behavior. You don't make strange changes while
people are still adjusting to your previous ones.
What Gregor is doing in these later books is headed nicely towards
English-style government, as far as I can tell. He listens to people
below him and demands competence within their standard nepotism. He
does not step into votes or perform visibly obvious "do this or else"
actions. Instead he puts people in power around him who prefer
A system of sane leadership does not yet exist on Barrayar, but it's
gradually forming. If a couple of generations go by without trouble,
who knows? That's up to our illustrious author to answer that
question, not me.
Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to paal at gis.net
Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
More information about the Lois-Bujold