[LMB] I never thought I'd see THIS come out of CERN

Paula Lieberman paal at gis.net
Tue Sep 27 14:27:53 BST 2011

But were neutrinos looked for months ahead of the light from the supernovas? 
Or would they have been recognized as precursors?

There have been instruments built with which had delay lines in them for 
data capture and analysis--events happened so quickly and the data rates of 
the equpment were so fast, that by the time the equipment could register 
ephemeral  events had happened, it was too late to turn recording on--and 
the data collection capacity was too limited to be able to store 
everything.... so, the triggering instead dealt with having data not be 
dumped from the time frame before the triggering happened. ..

-----Original Message----- 
From: Karen Hunt
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:58 AM
To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold.
Subject: Re: [LMB] I never thought I'd see THIS come out of CERN

A further point on the matter which is somewhat described in the other
part of this thread is that in some recent not-too-far-away
supernovas, neutrinos arrived very close in time to when light did.
(A bit before, but that's expected, since neutrinos escape such
cataclysms sooner than light can.  It helps to not interact with other
particles much.)  If the natural speed of neutrinos in vacuum is
really greater than that of light, those neutrinos should have been
months ahead of the light instead of hours.

Karen Hunt

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:15 PM, Nicholas D. Rosen <ndrosen at erols.com> 
> With some caveats about possible measurement errors and
> so forth, physicists have announced that they seem to have
> observed neutrinos traveling faster than light.  This is very
> significant if true, and not just because the speed of light was
> taken to be an arbitrary speed limit.  If it be possible to transmit
> information faster than light, then a large part of modern physics
> comes crashing down, or at least will be in need of major
> reinterpretation.
> According to special relativity, if two events at stars 10 light-years
> apart happen simultaneously in one reference frame, event A can
> happen 6 years before event B, and 8 light-years away in space, as
> measured by an observer in another, equally valid reference frame.
> Time and space are relative, although the four-vector is invariant.
> Therefore, if information can be transmitted instantly between A and
> B, or even faster than light, paradoxes arise; it becomes possible to
> send messages back in time.


> I seem to remember reading in a popular science article years ago
> of some evidence suggesting that neutrinos could be tachyons
> (faster than light particles).  Now we may have further evidence that
> they are, and even if they only crossed a distance of hundreds of
> kilometers 60 nanoseconds faster than light (beating photons in vacuum
> by 18 meters, if I did the math right), they could in principle be used to
> send messages back in time.
> Regards,
> Nicholas D. Rosen
> ndrosen at erols.com
> http://ndrosen.livejournal.com
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