[LMB] Titles

Francis Turner francis.turner at gmail.com
Sat Apr 7 18:56:09 BST 2012

On 5 April 2012 09:13, Gwynne Powell <gwynnepowell at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> From: Aruvqan aruvqan at gmail.com
>> See, if you try to find textev, the only thing I can think of is the
>> tossed off line wondering if Ekaterine was a Lady or Madam in address.
>> To my eyes, there are alltogether too many Vor, theoretically. If you
>> take the number of Counts families [60] and the population, and how many
>> generations there have been Vor, unless every original Vor Count and his
>> spouse popped out a dozen kids, there are too many non Count Bloodline
>> cadet branches wandering around breeding. Wasn't the whole TOI only 300
>> years or so [not sure why that number sticks in my mind offhand] and
>> Aral is the 11th of his line [I believe that was in Shards of Honor] so
>> if you allow a more normal 3 to 5 kids, we are still only discussing a
>> family pool of 300-500 people, many of which could have died before
>> marriage [infant and child mortality through disease or action of war]
>> and are certainly shared with another Count's family line [they were
>> intermarrying - keep in mind that Gregor muses about the problem of his
>> family crossing that of the Vor Bud's a dozen or so times]
>> It isn't like England and the Continent having a huge pool of higher
>> level nobility to intermarry with, it is a planet that has a restricted
>> population to start with, and selects 60 genetic lines that are already
>> probably interrelated to boost to high caste and then intermarry for a
>> few hundred years.
> There's 60 Count's families - the High Vor. Then there's an unknown number
> of other Vor families, who don't carry a title (except Vor, which Herself has
> identified as a form of title in itself.) That's why Ekaterin could have been
> Lady or Madame, depending on her status within the Vor.
> There's High (titled) Vor, Rural Vor, Old Vor, and presumably Low Vor. And
> just bog-standard ordinary Vor. There's also mention somewhere that
> emperors in the ToI bestowed the Vor title as a reward, which is probably
> why there's so many non-Count Vor families.
> Also, in the ToI families were expected to be much larger than three. In
> r/l in the past, especially in rural areas, it wasn't at all unusual for families
>  to have ten or twelve children. One of my uncles (by marriage) was the
>  eldest of sixteen. There's textev that large families are expected of the Vor.
> It all adds up to a lot of Vor, despite their spirited attempts to kill each other
> off whenever possible.
> Gwynne

The question is whether the Vor tend to exogamy with the proles or
endogamy within the Vor. If the former then eventually everyone
becomes Vor. If not then, assuming the non-Vor breed as much as the
Vor, the relative proportions will tend to remain about constant
(assuming the women of both produce roughly the same number of boys
and girls each). Textual evidence suggests, at least until recently,
the Vor have tended towards endogamy. It also seems to me that there
are a lot of middle/low Vor of various sorts. Enough that until
Imperial Edict spoke otherwise, the Imperial Armed Forces tended to be
officered exclusively by Vor as did most governmental bureaucracies it


Faber's Fourth Law:
  Necessity is the mother of strange bedfellows.

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