[LMB] Villains

mmegaera at nwlink.com mmegaera at nwlink.com
Thu May 23 21:07:52 BST 2013

> I would say that he was delusional and cruel, but not crazy.  Also 
> villainous. (Mostly because all his motives were selfish ones.)

I don't know about his motives being selfish, but I do agree that he's 
villainous.  Just not in the same category of villainous as Ryoval, which 
was the point I was trying to make.

> Both human?  Both intelligent?

Same category of villainous.   :-)

> .. Are you saying that even though we don't see it, she must have some 
> sort of justification for what she does?  Why do you think so?

Not justification.  I just have this feeling that she didn't start out life 
as a villain the way it seems Ryoval did.  I think she was probably fine, if 
very ambitious (not that that's a bad thing in and of itself, although in 
Bujold's universe, it does seem that women get put down for being ambitious 
far more than men do, unless they're in Miles's orbit in which case he 
encourages them to be ambitious which is one of the reasons they fall for 
him), till someone or something really messed her up.  No real textev, as I 
said, except perhaps for a few throwaway phrases I can't force the search 
function on the ebook to locate for me.

> I'm not convinced Cavilo wanted to torture people at all,  unless it 
> suited her purposes or her temper.  I think she loved power and wanted it 
> for herself.

Exactly.  And something or someone along the way pushed her into hurtful 
ways of going for that power.  I suspect because at some point doing it the 
"right" way backfired on her bigtime.  I wonder how she'd be different if 
she'd run into Miles at that pivotal point instead of whatever she did run 

My original point was that, for Vorkisiverse villains, Ryoval is in a class 
by himself.  And that class happens to be the kind of mustache-twirling, 
let's see how evil I can be today" villain that is my absolute least 
favorite.  So he's the exception that proves Gwynne's rule, at least IMHO.


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