[LMB] OT: What guest-gift would you bring if transported to the 5GW?

Baur baur at chello.at
Fri Dec 30 18:03:09 GMT 2016

Am 30.12.2016 um 18:25 schrieb Aruvqan:
> I have issues [complete with tshirts and a fancy lip shaped desk phone]
> with most writer's interpretations of gearing down to gear up again.
> Let me use the Belisarius series as an example, I just finished
> rereading it a month or so ago. As a short upshot, General Belisarius
> and the Malwa Empire in India both end up getting 'visitors' from the
> serious distant future, both are trying to manipulate the past to create
> a future in line with what they each want. They can each explain and
> show parts of the future, sort of like an interactive AI encyclopedia.
> So far, so good.
> My absolute main problem [and this is using the viewpoint of Belisarius
> and the Byzantine Roman Empire as the good guys, so it is going to be
> portraying the tech available to the Holy Roman Empire of the time]
> Belisarius' main 'engineer' complains about the trouble of boring out a
> barrel which is why they are welding rods together to make rifle and
> pistol barrels. Um, scuse me? They had lathes, and if you give me a foot
> treadle or springing sapling powered lathe, I can bootstrap my way up
> through softer metals into harder metals - how the frell do you think
> they did it the first time through history? I can use stone on bronze
> [basalt chisel, anybody? Even jadeite.] Then I can cast steel gearing
> and use it to manipulate cast iron, and work my way up to steel, then I
> can muck around with steel

i have had long discussions about this with lots of interested (and 
interesting people)

upscaling is not not that easy .. even if you know the basics ..

lets take a relatively simple case - roman era iron making (bloomery 
with hammering) to 1800 style steel making (blast furnace and puddling) 
or 1900 style (blast furnace to bessemer or SM furnace)

there is a large number innovations that you need to get to work 
together at the same time .. the main problematic areas are coke, the 
forced blast blowers and the refractory materials - getting these to 
work will take lots of work and will not be fast - and once you have 
them inp lace you need to develop the skills to actually use then as 
finished system ..



  and the 'oligochemistry' [to give ceramic
> engineering the original name] to get better alloys. Yes you can't jump
> from wood to tungston and stainless, and inconel and monel, but you can
> jump from wood to bronze [for nonsparking tools] and to iron, steel and
> finally to stainless steel Just knowing that you can generate
> electricity and generate oxygen to get the Bessemer process and make an
> electronic furnace to extract aluminum from bauxite [just as a wild
> example] is a *major* boost to not having to reinvent the wheel. The
> Romans were using water powered triphammers, fer Ghu's sake ....
> GAAAAAAH <limps around screaming in frustration]
> Hells bells, since I am all limpy and such, maybe I could glue on a
> beard and call myself Vulcan ... if I can imagine the process of
> bootstraping my way up and my quals as a machinist are 30 years out of
> date I can imagine someone who is more currently educated in machine
> tech and engineering would be able to do better than I can. At least I
> can still draft by hand and am not stuck using a program to generate
> drawings =)
> [my roomie the farrier/blacksmith started reading and got so frustrated
> she threw my hardcopy of the book across the room, and pointed out in
> excruciating detail stuff out of De Re Metallica by Agricola that was
> imparting accumulated goodies that had been circulating around Europe
> for much of the past few hundred years [published originally in the
> early 1600s I think] and ranted that she could think of a few ways to do
> whatever it was they were having trouble with.]
> On 12/30/2016 8:42 AM, Baur wrote:
>> Am 30.12.2016 um 14:06 schrieb Walter Bushell:
>>> Those of you who have dipped in the Ring of Fire series may be
>>> familiarized with the problems of working
>>> with gearing down.
>> played with the 163x-verse and several others that have same basic
>> problem (dies the fire, island in the sea of time, lord calvin from
>> otherwhen, martin padway, conrad stargard)
>> and it is a huge problem ..

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