[LMB] Re: Am I misunderstanding beguilement?

M. Haller Yamada thefabmadamem at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 7 07:53:17 BST 2019








On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 07:42:11 AM GMT+9, pouncer at aol.com <pouncer at aol.com> wrote: 





I do suspect we have not yet reached consensus on what beguilement actually 
involves.

Real quick.  Sort of a poll:  Who thinks Dag's horse Copperhead was beguiled? 

Micki: I'd have to re-read. And yes, I suspect the same, that our terms are at
odds. I think Little Egret also made a good point. 

I am definitely willing to say there's a difference between being beguiled, and
full-fledged beguilement (but I'm not sure if the text supports that difference;
again, it'd take a re-read). Beguiled/Beguiling is shifting another's will, even
if it's only for a second. Beguilement is the condition of being addicted to the
beguiler?? I don't know. 

I do know there are two different, distinct spots on the spectrum: that one-time
shifting of will (or maybe even a few times . . . but then we start to wander towards
the other spot on the spectrum), and a semi-permanent condition that amounts to
illness on the part of the beguiled. (See, language gets in the way there again! I 
mean the illness affects the person who is under beguilement, if we can use
the terms in such a way . . . and I am not convinced we can.) 

In the text I quoted (and I'll put it at the end again), the term is "beguiling
persuasion".

The same beguiling persuasion that worked on animals worked on farmers, 
he’d heard, and, encountering that pretty young farmer girl when his patrol 
had camped on her family’s land, he’d been more than tempted to try it out.  
Bluebell hadn’t been unwilling.  He’d not mistaken those artful glances of 
admiration she’d cast his youthful good looks.  From admiration to arousal 
turned out to be but a step, and a step more from there to the loft of her 
father’s barn.

Bujold, Lois McMaster. Knife Children (The Sharing Knife series) . 
Spectrum Literary Agency, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

If a girl is "not unwilling", you don't speed up the process with a roofie, no
matter if "I won't be in town long." Consent can be denied even in the middle
of an sex act. For both parties. (Although it seems a lot easier for a male
to decide he doesn't want to be having sex anymore and put a stop to the
sex act . . . the equipment seems to cooperate, usually. I can think of some
exceptions, but maybe our debate has not advanced to those places yet.) 

Micki  



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