[LMB] Sumptuary laws, was Language drift on Barrayar

Eric Oppen ravenclaweric at gmail.com
Fri Aug 9 03:21:02 BST 2019


There were also laws in China.  A certain shade of yellow was reserved for
the emperor, and only he could wear robes embroidered with a five-toed
dragon, IIRC.  Some other things were reserved for high officials and other
Important People.

In the Byzantine Empire, only the emperor could wear red boots.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 7:40 PM Thomas Izbicki <tizbick at hotmail.com> wrote:

> There is a large literature on sumptuary laws. Two books of interest. I
> can list others & articles. The Western tradition is rooted in Roman law.
> Tom Izbicki:
> 1. Sumptuary law in Italy, 1200-1500<
> https://franklin.library.upenn.edu/catalog/FRANKLIN_9932270693503681>
> Bookmark
>
> Author/Creator:
> Killerby, Catherine Kovesi, 1963-
> Series:
> Oxford historical monographs.
> Publication:
> Oxford : Clarendon Press ; New York : Oxford University Press, 2002.
> Format/Description:
> Book
> 2. The right to dress : sumptuary laws in a global perspective, c.
> 1200-1800<
> https://franklin.library.upenn.edu/catalog/FRANKLIN_9977522722803681>
> Bookmark
>
> Publication:
> Cambridge, United Kingdom ; New York, NY : Cambridge University Press,
> 2019. , ©2019
> Format/Description:
> Book
> Available. Van Pelt Library. HB841 .R54 2019. See shelf location<
> http://www.library.upenn.edu/about/locations/floor-plans/stacks-vp#H>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk <
> lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk> on behalf of WILLIAM A WENRICH <
> wawenri at msn.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 8:03 PM
> To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. <
> lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [LMB] Sumptuary laws, was Language drift on Barrayar
>
> There’s a fairly large write up in Wikipedia:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumptuary_law
>
> Christian, husband, father, granddaddy, son, American. Here I stand. I can
> do no other. God help me.
> William A Wenrich
> ________________________________
> From: lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk <
> lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk> on behalf of Sylvia McIvers <
> sylviamcivers at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 10:51:13 AM
> To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. <
> lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> Subject: [LMB] Sumptuary laws, was Language drift on Barrayar
>
> > > > On Aug 6, 2019, at 2:21 PM, Mieke <mvanspanje at home.nl> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>  In some places/times it was illegal to wear costly clothing that
> was
> > "beyond one's station".  Imagine being prohibited from wearing a tuxedo
> or
> > evening gown because you weren't high-status enough!
> > > >
> > > >> That is interesting. Do you have any examples?
> > > > I know of societys or times that it was ‘not done’. But actually
> > > prohibited...?
> > >
> >
>
> When I was a kid, mom made sure we had all kind of historical books, and a
> bunch by Marcus Lehman, who wrote of Jewish heroes of ye olden days.
>
> "Rabbi Joselman of Rosheim" was a Rabbi who worked with various German
> princes (there were multiple Germanies at that time, and my knowing this at
> such a young age astonished the teachers.  thanks mom!)
>
> As a Jew he could not wear certain garments, but a heavy fur was given to
> him as a gift from the land-prince, so it was allowed.   Plot point - the
> lining was a forbidden mix of linsey-woolsey, so he changed it to plain
> linen or wool, with the prince's permission.  Later someone watned to frame
> him, and duplicated the coat - with the original lining. So he could prove
> it wasn't him.
>
> Possibly from the same book, there was a wealthy Jewish merchant's wife who
> saw a noblewoman's beautiful dress and had it duplicated for herself to
> wear. The noblewoman was furious that a Jewish woman, non noble, was
> wearing her dress, and had the merchant thrown in jail for breaking the
> sumptuous laws.
>
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abebooks.com%2Fbook-search%2Ftitle%2Frabbi-joselman-of-rosheim%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C8038294bee6f4fe8a3d208d71c20add0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637008798985719361&amp;sdata=1GwlNIqKThCNQTihPeAyOidKfEs7WLHgDxcnzbAV5%2FI%3D&amp;reserved=0
> I actually remember this cover, it was purple, and the kings were kind of
> weird looking.  Also notice the Jew-hat which the Rabbi is wearing, it was
> obligatory for Jews, which as an article of clothing might or might not
> fall under sumptuary laws.
>
>
> If you got this far, here's a fun fact:
> Marcus Lehman's father was Lehman Marcus, and I believe his grandfather was
> Marcus Lehman.  Jewish last names were Name son of Father's Name, or
> possibly Name the Tradename, until the Polish/German/Russian governments
> needed to keep track of people.
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