[LMB] We’ve been discussing gene-engineering...

Eric Oppen ravenclaweric at gmail.com
Thu Oct 10 03:51:33 BST 2019


If they found genes that conferred, say, telekinesis, what do you want to
bet that the Vor wouldn't want that for every one of their children?  "I
find your lack of respect...disturbing."

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 8:36 PM Tom Vinson <t.vinson at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> WalterStuartBushell 9 October:
>
> >I shall Vorberra to think about it.
> And I, magnanimous as I am, shall Vorberra to slap you upside the head for
> that pun.
>
> > On Oct 9, 2019, at 16:17, lois-bujold-request at lists.herald.co.uk wrote:
> >
> > Send Lois-Bujold mailing list submissions to
> >  lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
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> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Lois-Bujold digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: No lefties (WalterStuartBushell)
> > 2. Re: No lefties (WalterStuartBushell)
> > 3. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> >    (WalterStuartBushell)
> > 4. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> >    (WalterStuartBushell)
> > 5. Re: No lefties in the Nexus (Howard Brazee)
> > 6. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> >    (Howard Brazee)
> > 7. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> >    (WalterStuartBushell)
> > 8. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> >    (WalterStuartBushell)
> > 9. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> >    (WalterStuartBushell)
> > 10. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> >    (WalterStuartBushell)
> > 11. Space cadets, Bannerettes, Royal Air Force and the problem of
> >    "Captains" in the Barrayaran combined forces ... (pouncer at aol.com)
> > 12. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> >    (Eric Oppen)
> > 13. Re: We've been discussing gene engineering on people... (Tidsel)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:30:13 -0400
> > From: WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] No lefties
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <896FFAEF-3CCD-4D74-85F9-E01A3650BE13 at panix.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 7, 2019, at 4:33 AM, Damien Sullivan <phoenix at mindstalk.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> So how about using genetic engineering to *add* diversity, whether genes
> >> from people other than the parents, or othehr species, or even new
> >> designer genes?
> >>
> >> -xx- Damien X-)
> > .
> > OBbj See Cordelia?s chat with Mark about he was genetically just as much
> her
> > child as Miles and so <redacted because if you are reading this you know
> or
> > are very new here and telling would be spoiling.>
> >
> > ?
> > Of course our planet has its mood swings ? it is, after all, bipolar.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:36:14 -0400
> > From: WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] No lefties
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <E48D6753-1F61-49FF-AF76-E61B3FD46551 at panix.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 7, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Howard Brazee <howard at brazee.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> If it?s allowed, this could start off with people making their children
> more suitable to be basketball players or swimmers or mathematicians, or
> runners or astronauts?
> >>
> >> And eventually, quaddies.st
> >
> > Do you think the people who decided to make quaddies used their
> <strong>OWN</strong>CHILDREN?!
> >
> > On the other hand white slave owners had no problem condemning some of
> their children to ?lives? as slaves.
> >
> > ?
> > Alfred Adler??Do the wrong thing or feel guilty, but not both.?
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:42:41 -0400
> > From: WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <8ABE965D-2EE4-461E-BEFF-A4D11340699D at panix.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> A possibly useful test question might be, if one had the genetic
> engineering capacities, would one elect to _insert_ the [whatever genetic
> condition is being debated] into one's embryonic child?
> >>
> >> If the answer is "No!" the prior question seems also answered.
> >>
> >> Ta, L.
> >
> >
> > That?s insert, change or delete that gene or gene complex.
> >
> > And not complete, for example, some deaf people might want their child
> to be deaf.
> > Or intersex in a varaity of styles. Suppose you could give your child
> the musical abilities
> > of Mozart, Bach or Haydn?
> > ?
> > Alfred Adler??Do the wrong thing or feel guilty, but not both.?
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:54:40 -0400
> > From: WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <AB3B2F63-BF30-461C-ADC4-28695F0D69CE at panix.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 7, 2019, at 6:31 PM, Beatrice Otter <beatrice_otter at zoho.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> But  ?this can shorten your life" would not count, it has to be
> something where the condition is the primary cause of death.
> >
> > Huntingdon?s syndrome and lack of resistance to infection are corner
> cases here. Dementia in its forms is a terrible way
> > to go. Would you wipe out genes that would put someone in a wheelchair
> by ten with an otherwise normal lifespan?
> >
> > . If something is messy it?s probably biological and vice versa.
> >
> > __
> > What is the difference between unethical and ethical advertising?
> Unethical advertising uses falsehoods to deceive the public; ethical
> advertising uses truth to deceive the public.
> > Vilhjalmur Stefansson (1879 ? 1962)
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 11:56:27 -0600
> > From: Howard Brazee <howard at brazee.net>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] No lefties in the Nexus
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <B5E9A1CF-F0CB-4B76-A3DB-EFF39A7340EC at brazee.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 8, 2019, at 2:11 PM, Matthew George <matt.msg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> There are likely excellent reasons a pure haut culture wouldn't
> thrive.  I
> >> strongly suspect that the haut have had their genetic propensities for
> >> ambition turned up, so that their innate potential can be more easily
> >> evaluated.  Even baseline humans are intensely concerned with status,
> and
> >> if a whole lot of equally talented and highly ambitious people are
> forced
> >> to take positions and jobs that (for complex psychological reasons) are
> >> inherently low-status, there's going to be trouble in a big way.
> >
> > A counter argument is that the Haut could change their mind.   The
> library of genomes available is huge.
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 11:59:01 -0600
> > From: Howard Brazee <howard at brazee.net>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <923AD1A7-DEAB-4E40-B497-EC5D64530F52 at brazee.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >>> On Oct 8, 2019, at 2:35 PM, Matthew George <matt.msg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> And I know that if my parents could have changed my genes to make me
> >>> healthier, they would. It wouldn't make me different person, just a
> >>> healthier one.
> >>
> >>
> >> Even ignoring pleiotropy, that last sentence is just ridiculous.  It's
> >> trivially and obviously wrong.
> >
> > Well, *everything* would make me a different person.   If I had gone to
> a different school, or had different neighbors?
> >
> > Parents could have been too poor to buy eyeglasses, and their children
> would be different.   That doesn?t mean you shouldn?t get eyeglasses for
> your children because they would be different people with them.
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 13:59:11 -0400
> > From: WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <7714822E-354D-4BF6-9037-A25FDA4AF199 at panix.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 7, 2019, at 11:13 PM, Anthony de Boer <adb at adb.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> There was that very very interesting DNA sample that Elli collected at
> >> the end of _EoA_ that was never mentioned again; I was wondering if the
> >> relevant gene might possibly appear in the Vorkosigan or perchance even
> >> the Vorbarra offspring.
> >
> > That?s a terrible thought, and I shall Vorebarra to think it.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?
> > ?That which doesn?t make us stronger kills us.?
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 14:04:36 -0400
> > From: WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <954BE3A4-B9DF-4A76-98EB-55F31ADEFCA8 at panix.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 8, 2019, at 8:48 AM, Mark Allums <mark at allums.email> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry.  Disregard.  (I read that as, " Diabetes is a PITA at *worst*.
> My bad.)
> >>
> >> Mark
> >
> > Wrecked?em? It <redacted>ing killed him.
> >
> > __
> > What is the difference between unethical and ethical advertising?
> Unethical advertising uses falsehoods to deceive the public; ethical
> advertising uses truth to deceive the public.
> > Vilhjalmur Stefansson (1879 ? 1962)
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 15:08:32 -0400
> > From: WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <7D2CA970-74D5-4F60-BCA6-355D7407EA92 at panix.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 8, 2019, at 7:05 PM, Matthew George <matt.msg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Does that mean that, if someone told you they could increase your future
> >> child's IQ by two SDs, you'd consider that intervention necessary?  A
> >> no-brainer?
> >>
> >> See?  Reversing the situation doesn't always reverse the appropriate
> >> response.
> >
> >
> >
> > A child that smart and possible much smarter than the parents or
> teachers could
> > present real problems. Suppose the kid would have Dr. Hawkins level of
> intelligence
> > and that increased by 2 SDs.
> >
> > Lot?s of my friends oft don?t follow me, partially because I achieved a
> Master?s in Math and
> > jump severals steps in logic because it?s SO obvious. Or because I?m the
> type of person who would
> > attempt grad school in Math. Or as Tom Lehrer would say, ?How they got
> that way.?
> >
> > OBbj: Miles? very bright parents had great difficulty with him.
> > ?
> > ?That which doesn?t make us stronger kills us.?
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 15:15:56 -0400
> > From: WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID: <63284195-570F-4997-9A3D-3F42E852B716 at panix.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 8, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Ruchira Mathur <wetair at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> All this hypothetical of course. Since there is no gene therapy for
> >> diabetes. Though if there was, I really cannot believe people would
> refuse
> >> to take it.
> >
> >
> > Normal people, yes.
> > ?
> > Sig of no sig.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 20:34:17 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: pouncer at aol.com
> > Subject: [LMB] Space cadets, Bannerettes, Royal Air Force and the
> >  problem of "Captains" in the Barrayaran combined forces ...
> > To: hedwig52 at comcast.net, litalex at gmail.com,
> >  lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk,    m.dolbear at lineone.net,
> >  sylviamcivers at gmail.com, thefabmadamem at yahoo.com
> > Message-ID: <286232492.3935316.1570653257812 at mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3806/1
> >
> > ?
> > " ??The giggle factor is already high"
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 15:50:23 -0500
> > From: Eric Oppen <ravenclaweric at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID:
> >  <CAO7QBz-n0LOD1dE7RLOOxfBueLYNTqqy_dXSMowK_=_b8QtsBQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Judd Winick's Barry Ween comics might be of interest.
> >
> >
> >> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019, WalterStuartBushell <proto at panix.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Oct 8, 2019, at 7:05 PM, Matthew George <matt.msg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Does that mean that, if someone told you they could increase your
> future
> >>> child's IQ by two SDs, you'd consider that intervention necessary?  A
> >>> no-brainer?
> >>>
> >>> See?  Reversing the situation doesn't always reverse the appropriate
> >>> response.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A child that smart and possible much smarter than the parents or
> teachers
> >> could
> >> present real problems. Suppose the kid would have Dr. Hawkins level of
> >> intelligence
> >> and that increased by 2 SDs.
> >>
> >> Lot?s of my friends oft don?t follow me, partially because I achieved a
> >> Master?s in Math and
> >> jump severals steps in logic because it?s SO obvious. Or because I?m the
> >> type of person who would
> >> attempt grad school in Math. Or as Tom Lehrer would say, ?How they got
> >> that way.?
> >>
> >> OBbj: Miles? very bright parents had great difficulty with him.
> >> ?
> >> ?That which doesn?t make us stronger kills us.?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com
> >> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
> >> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 13
> > Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2019 21:20:55 +0000
> > From: Tidsel <tidsel at protonmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] We've been discussing gene engineering on people...
> > To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold."
> >  <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <PE54S1joG42lk18PuYMVcyK9E45Ukr_ZQOEsiweeED9k7j2aQ90FQRCxYdbwwFk_6jrPohVE-mk03dHDG3mHS8XSSUliwkaTuKetf9N5LMU=@
> protonmail.com>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ??????? Original Message ???????
> >> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 6:54 PM, WalterStuartBushell <
> proto at panix.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Oct 7, 2019, at 6:31 PM, Beatrice Otter beatrice_otter at zoho.com
> wrote:
> >>> But ?this can shorten your life" would not count, it has to be
> something where the condition is the primary cause of death.
> >>
> >> Huntingdon?s syndrome and lack of resistance to infection are corner
> cases here. Dementia in its forms is a terrible way
> >> to go. Would you wipe out genes that would put someone in a wheelchair
> by ten with an otherwise normal lifespan?
> >
> > Yes, definitely.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > --
> > Lois-Bujold mailing list
> > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
> > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold
> >
> >
> > End of Lois-Bujold Digest, Vol 173, Issue 42
> > ********************************************
>
> --
> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com
> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold
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