[LMB] Fwd: Fwd: Re: What’s needed
baur at chello.at
Sat Feb 1 08:27:04 GMT 2020
Am 01.02.2020 um 01:14 schrieb Pat Mathews:
> If you all want detailed discussions and descriptions of what it takes,
> Eric Flint's 1632 series goes into great detail, at least on the
> balloons. Check out a story called Upward Mobility, I think in one of
> the Ring of Fire anthologies.
the 163x series is fun to read, but highly optimsitc in the ease of
creating new/old tech .. (it also misses the target on downtimer
mindsets by a very large margin quite often ..)
> BTW, pulp is indeed a way of making paper, and cheaper than rags. But
> have a look at an old (maybe ca. 1880?) rag-paper book and compare it to
> one of your old mass market (many c. 1979) paperbacks. Pulp as a medium
> drives historians mad. Though compared to digital, where much, much data
> had been lost because nobody can read the medium any more not
> reconstruct the gadget that could, as, frex, at NASA... nobody thought
> to save that stuff in archival quality paper!
yes, rag paper is a LOT more stable
> *From:* lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk
> <lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk> on behalf of Baur <baur at chello.at>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2020 9:16 AM
> *To:* Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold.
> <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> *Subject:* [LMB] Fwd: Fwd: Re: What’s needed
> Am 31.01.2020 um 16:32 schrieb Aruvqan:
>> On 1/31/2020 5:50 AM, Baur wrote:
>>> paper is the prerequiste for printing .. as long as we are limited to
>>> vellum, that is a major bottleneck .. Gutenberg printed only a few of
>>> his first run of bibles on vellum, most on linen paper
>>> this in turn points on the prerequisite of the availability of large
>>> amounts of linen rags for paper making - damn, i start to sound like
>>> Burke in Connections)
>> Well, you don't actually need rag for paper, you can make quite adequate
>> paper from just trees, the pulp has to be pounded quite finely
> can that even be done? - i would have assumed you still need a grinding
> stage before the pounding, and that would mean very large water powered
> grinding wheels / mills ..
> > the
>> bleaching process is the pain in the fundament - though I suppose that
>> the sunlight/lignin yellowing makes sunlight bleaching impossible. I
>> would have to doublecheck my processes, on sodium hypochlorite making
>> not from modern techniques but period ones.
> thanks for checking on that - saves me the work of running these
> processes down
>> Hm, modern version:
>> While I could do this with confidence [wouldn't recommend it to amaturs
>> offhand]I don't see them really generating electricity in either world.
>> Winding copper cores isn't particularly difficult, and spinning it up is
>> easy with a water wheel, I don't really think so.
> not seeing any processes with electricity- not for a long time (too much
> missing in the basis)
>> Hmmm - doable:
>> In France, Claude Louis Berthollet, Napoleon's scientific expert, noted
>> that chlorine gas added to a solution of potash created a powerful
>> bleach. The idea made the rounds of Europe, but putting the exact amount
>> of each component into the mix was difficult. And potash was pricey.
>> Scottish chemist Charles Tennant took Berthollet's chlorine idea,
>> substituted limestone for the potash, and made a bleaching powder
>> (calcium hypochlorite). In decades, bleaching powder spread over Europe,
>> whitening not only clothes but also other products, especially writing
>> paper. But because the powder contained so much chlorine, it still was
>> One generates chlorine by running hydrochloric acid through a bed of
>> activated charcoal ... you crack salt by heating it in porcelain
>> crucibles. OK, doable.
> frankly, processes with largeish amounts of hot, elemental chlorine in a
> medievloid tech level setting make me nervous - see a good number of
> dead alchemists
>> Reasonably small batch could be more easily made
>> somewhere with large salt deposits, woodlands [for burning into ash to
>> make the potash] or near limestone deposits. So in the equivalent of 5G
>> Austria. WGW being roughly shown on page 6 of
>> I know personally of the
>> salt deposits in western NY - been down in the mine actually, it is in
>> Geneseo NY. I don't offhand know of the ones in Ohio, I just know they
>> are there. Limestone is available in Ohio -
>> OK, so bleaching of paper is very doable if they can figure out the
>> process of bleachmaking.
>> now my brain hurts =) off to breakfast =)
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