[LMB] Cazaril vs the Ransom

Marc Wilson marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk
Mon Feb 3 18:19:04 GMT 2020

On Mon, 3 Feb 2020 09:16:35 -0600, "Tony Zbaraschuk" <tonyz at eskimo.com>

>On Sun, February 2, 2020 11:30 pm, Damien Sullivan wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 03:46:14PM -0600, Tony Zbaraschuk wrote:
>>> a lot more room to do interesting things.  (Even _Lord of the Rings_,
>>> which makes the humble hobbit heroes the ones who save the world, had
>>> Frodo, Merry, and Pippin as members of the elite in the Shire.)
>> Merry and Pippin are even more elite than they seem in the text, or need
>> to be.  For a long time I thought they ended up as Master and Thain because
>> of their accomplishments (though there's a clue otherwise for Pippin in
>> "Scouring", mention of his father.)  But if you look at the
>> family trees, you see that they're the eldest/only sons of the current
>> Master and Thain.  Insofar as hobbits have princes, they are the crown
>> princes of the Shire and Buckland.
>> Which makes it odd that Frodo never brought up "guys, don't you have
>> family responsibilities or something?"
>Pippin, and I think Merry, are both in their tweens -- hobbit coming-of-age
>is 33, and they're both in their 20s.  So they probably have some
>responsibilities coming up, but right now they're not obligated to
>do very much, so they have time to roam around with their friends...
>> Frodo himself is wealthy and related to such people (second cousin-ish)
>> and probably 'head' of the Baggins clan (Tolkien said as much in a letter)
>> but mostly just looks like a rich dude.
>Bilbo presumably had some money to start with, or some land ownership,
>or _something_; we are told he gave away all his share of Smaug's
>treasure over the course of his life, but there seems to have been
>some left over for Frodo, and of course there may have been rents
>or something...
>>> Betan Survey captain - that's incredibly near the top in terms of
>>> capability, in the highest-tech society in the galaxy.  Maybe not part of
>>> Steady Freddy's inner circle, but definitely well above
>>> average.
>> It's an earned elite rather than a born one, though.

In the sense that anyone around which major world events turn is de
facto a significant person (with the possible exceptions of e.g. Typhoid
Mary and other "patient zero" characters), it's a self-defining elite.
Instead of leaking celebrity photos we could leak pdf versions|of college textbooks?

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