[LMB] OT: Gender, was: Programming, was: Afterlife

Beatrice Otter beatrice_otter at zoho.com
Sun Nov 1 03:42:45 GMT 2020

---- On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:06:02 -0700 Jean Lamb <mailto:tlambs1138 at charter.net> wrote ----

There's a brilliant column called ASK A MANAGER that often covers that little problem. Male workers are straightforward and ambitious. Women are nasty and as I said earlier, bitches, when they behave in the exact same ways.

Example: Hillary Clinton. Kamala Harris who's a 'slut' and 'too ambitious'. 

Women get smacked down *no matter what they do*. 

Beatrice Otter:

I once saw a study that charted the popularity of various politicians over time and analyzed them for differences based on gender. (Hillary Clinton was one of them, which is why I remembered it now.) They found that women's popularity usually had a sharp decline when they were running for office. Even if they'd had prominent roles in government and been widely respected while in office, their popularity immediately declined the moment they started campaigning for re-election. Men who were widely respected while in office suffered no such dip. The study's conclusion (which was in line with other research done on gender relations in America) was that we as a society do not like women who speak up and ask for something for themselves. We're fine with women doing the job, but we don't like them talking about how good a job they did and asking for re-election/a promotion/a raise. But we have no such problems with men doing it. Which is one of the reasons that we still have a really skewed gender ratio in elected officials. Women have a harder time getting elected because we still have biases against women promoting themselves (which you have to do to get elected). This is not a conscious bias, but it is a measurable one.

I also saw a study a couple of years ago that looked at how people were groomed for management and if there was a difference gender-wise that could account for some of the gap between how many men and women there are in management. And they found out there was! We've spent so long talking about how women need to "lean in" and "be assertive" and all these other things, that most of the time when someone in a leadership role spotted a woman that they thought deserved to be promoted and wanted to help them rise up the ladder, usually what they did was stuff designed to boost their confidence and advice on how to negotiate for raises and stuff like that. But the same people never bothered giving that advice to men they saw who they thought deserved to be promoted; instead, they would give them advice *on how to improve at their job and prepare for the next rung up the ladder*. Which was actually much more useful, career-wise. And these are not sexist pigs or anything; the study was deliberately targeting organizations and businesses and managers who genuinely wanted to be progressive and fair and increase the percentage of women in leadership roles. When they pointed this out, the managers/mentors in question simply hadn't realized that they weren't giving the same sort of advice to their female mentees as they were to their male mentees. And were usually quite embarrassed by it.

Beatrice Otter

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