[LMB] Citizenship?

Marc Wilson marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk
Thu Dec 2 12:17:38 GMT 2021


On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 15:17:46 -0700, Howard Brazee <howard at brazee.net>
wrote:

>
>
>> On Nov 30, 2021, at 2:37 PM, Edith via Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> There are at least two things that complicate this picture however. In 'The Warrior's Apprentice' we see with Arde Mayhew the possibility that someone may be a subject of Gregor's by virtue of his oath to Miles, but retains Betan citizenship/nationality. This suggests that 'subject of Gregor' and 'citizen of the Barrayaran
Imperium' are not completely interchangeable terms. (On the other hand, I don't think it is possible to be a citizen of the Barrayaran Imperium and NOT a subject of Gregor).
>
>Historically, there have been times and places where people didn’t have loyalty to “nations”.   They swore to the rulers instead.    Sometimes those rulers swore to other rulers.    But nations as we know them weren’t what fealty was about.
>
>Whether Barrayar would go that way in its time of troubles is open.

The nation-state as we understand it today is really a 18th/19th century
development.  Historically, most people's political horizon was their
immediate liege lord or whatever, they were often only vaguely aware of
what happened above that level.

When there was war, the most desirable thing at ground level was that it
should be an away fixture rather than a home one; even if "your side"
won, a war zone was not a good place to be for non-combatants, and
victorious armies could be as destructive to their nominal allies as to
the enemy.
--
If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.



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