[LMB] Citizenship? - Oaths and Arde

Edith khoreutees at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 4 17:00:09 GMT 2021

On 02/12/2021 21:20, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote:
> On 02/12/2021 18:59, Edith via Lois-Bujold wrote:
>>  This leaves open the question of whether other planets would 
>> recognise the oath to Miles as also creating a legal bond between 
>> Arde and Barrayar as a state, which would give Barrayar standing to 
>> intervene on Arde's behalf at the international level. Or will Betan 
>> authorities regard the situation as one in which Miles employs Arde, 
>> which would not create a legal bond between Arde and Barrayar? If 
>> Barrayar is recognised as having standing to intervene 
>> internationally on Arde's behalf, whatever the status is technically 
>> called, it is starting to look a lot like effective citizenship. If 
>> not, we are back to the fact that an oath which creates a legally 
>> binding bond on Barrayar may have no validity outside Barrayar and 
>> what does that mean for recognition of Barrayaran citizenship 
>> (particularly citizenship by naturalization) outside Barrayar if it 
>> is based on an oath? (Sorry if this gets a bit convoluted. I don't 
>> have answers and am just playing around with ideas and trying to 
>> think things out as I go. As well as thinking about how some of the 
>> problems we see in the modern world in terms of citizenship status, 
>> recognition and effective citizenship might be relevant).
> I think how each side acts would very much depend on the 
> circumstances. In today's international law, most often getting 
> citizenship in a new country does nothing to your previous citizenship.

Most, yes, but there are a sizeable minority that do stipulate 
loss/deprivation of citizenship when you acquire a new citizenship. 
Having said that, I realise that since I have always been dealing with 
citizenship issues from a statelessness or discrimination angle, I may 
have a skewed perspective on how common such problems are. So, I thought 
I would try to find some actual figures. Looking at the Robert Schuman 
Centre's Global Citizenship Law Database 
(https://globalcit.eu/modes-loss-citizenship and 
https://globalcit.eu/modes-acquisition-citizenship) which as far as I 
know is the best source of comparative data on this and covers 190 
countries, there 38 countries where citizenship is always lost/withdrawn 
on acquisition of a new citizenship, a further 11 where this applies 
only to citizens by naturalization, and 27 where acquiring a new 
citizenship generally leads to loss of citizenship, but there are some 
exceptions. (On the other hand there are 114 which have no provision for 
loss of citizenship based on the acquisition of foreign citizenship).

> In a more extreme case, I can see a situation where accepting 
> citizenship in another country might be considered treason by the 
> original country (in cases of war, etc).
> More often it is the country of new citizenship that puts conditions 
> on giving you new citizenship (demanding you resign your original one, 
> or not).

Certainly, that will be the case administratively - the country of new 
citizenship is likely to be actively reviewing your application and 
demanding proof of whatever it considers necessary. Whereas it might be 
possible to just not inform the country of old nationality. I doubt many 
actively check for people who have acquired a second 
citizenship...actually not even sure how they would do that if they 
wanted to.

Legally, looking at the Global Citizenship Law database suggests that 46 
States require renunciation of any prior citizenship for naturalisation, 
and a further 13 generally require renunciation, but with some major 
exceptions. Oh, and 5 theoretically require renunciation, but don't 
appear to actually enforce or check on the requirement. On the other 
hand, 111 make no reference to renunciation in their naturalisation 
provisions and 15 have an exception for those naturalising based on 
long-term residence in the state.

My sense, but I have no data to back this up, is that the recent (last 
couple of decades, say) trend has been towards more states permitting 
dual citizenship.

What this means for Barrayar (or elsewhere in the nexus) is open to 
speculation. We could guess that dual citizenship has been normalised. 
Or on the other hand, maybe increased travel times and the expectation 
that moving to a new planet (and a shift to planetary rather than 
nation-based) citizenship mean there has been a move back towards single 
citizenship, but with an expectation that this would align with place of 

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