[LMB] Citizenship? - Oaths and Arde

Marc Wilson marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk
Mon Dec 6 15:34:44 GMT 2021

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 20:20:18 +0000, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold
<lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:

>On 02/12/2021 18:59, Edith via Lois-Bujold wrote:
>>  This leaves open the question of whether other planets would
>> recognise the oath to Miles as also creating a legal bond between Arde
>> and Barrayar as a state, which would give Barrayar standing to
>> intervene on Arde's behalf at the international level. Or will Betan
>> authorities regard the situation as one in which Miles employs Arde,
>> which would not create a legal bond between Arde and Barrayar? If
>> Barrayar is recognised as having standing to intervene internationally
>> on Arde's behalf, whatever the status is technically called, it is
>> starting to look a lot like effective citizenship. If not, we are back
>> to the fact that an oath which creates a legally binding bond on
>> Barrayar may have no validity outside Barrayar and what does that mean
>> for recognition of Barrayaran citizenship (particularly citizenship by
>> naturalization) outside Barrayar if it is based on an oath? (Sorry if
>> this gets a bit convoluted. I don't have answers and am just playing
>> around with ideas and trying to think things out as I go. As well as
>> thinking about how some of the problems we see in the modern world in
>> terms of citizenship status, recognition and effective citizenship
>> might be relevant).
>I think how each side acts would very much depend on the circumstances.
>In today's international law, most often getting citizenship in a new
>country does nothing to your previous citizenship. Certainly some
>countries demand that you formally denounce your citizenship, before
>they will release you from the duties that go with it (like taxation,
>draft, etc).
>In a more extreme case, I can see a situation where accepting
>citizenship in another country might be considered treason by the
>original country (in cases of war, etc).
>More often it is the country of new citizenship that puts conditions on
>giving you new citizenship (demanding you resign your original one, or not).

Even within the EU, there are variations; Spain and the Netherlands
don't allow dual citizenship (unless born to it), but Portugal and
France do, for instance.  If I can finally persuade my wife to leave
this increasingly toxic island, that will have a bearing on where we go.

There's nothing like good food, good wine, and a bad girl. - fortune cookie

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