[LMB] Voting

WILLIAM A WENRICH wawenri at msn.com
Tue Dec 28 14:33:00 GMT 2021


Just having the vote doesn’t mean the same thing in all cases. The franchise will be limited in some way (16-year-olds?, soldiers in an invading army voting in a referendum?, proxy votes?).
Is it a secret ballot or can the voters be intimidated? Direct democracy or representative? Is it a parliamentary system? Are there second and third place votes?
Are there things that the government is not allowed to do? Is that by a written constitution? Who ensures that the constitution is followed?
All of these have occurred in RL.


William A Wenrich

  *   A sinner dependent on God’s grace.

________________________________
From: Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk> on behalf of Matthew George <matt.msg at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2021 1:20:51 PM
To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [LMB] Voting

There is a difference between having a vote with two or more options
considered good, a vote with two or more options where some are good and
some are awful, and a vote with all the options being awful.

Just as inherited kingship wasn't established because it produced good
decision-making, but because it avoided the costs of warlords fighting over
kingship, voting hasn't become the standard because it produces good
results.

Figuring out what terribly costly things voting avoids is a good skeptical
exercise.

Matt "here's a hint:  it's not better than any other system ever tried" G.

On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 11:13 PM Pouncer via Lois-Bujold <
lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:

> Howard Brazee suggests:
>
>  >When people vote for other reasons than for what they think is
>  >best, we have problems.
>
> In general politics,  "the best" is an individual concept,
> while the community must make do with "tolerable".  It's not
> unlike Caz's observation about judges at courts.  Half the
> people who arrive at court, leave it disappointed. Even a
> lunch menu -- in the marketplace I can buy a burger and you
> can buy a taco and we both get our personal "best"; when
> the public school cafeteria is planning the day's menu for
> the hundreds, it will be rare that any of us gets what we
> prefer as "best". It's why minimizing the scope of issues
> to be decided by vote is desirable.
>
> We have Miles orchestrating the vote among Counts in the
> questions regarding Dono and Rene. Setting aside Lady
> Alys's contributions, the techniques Miles lays out
> demonstrate what we in my peculiar jurisdiction and jargon
> call "log rolling".  I will vote with DONO not because
> I think Dono best, but in exchange for your vote and
> preference regarding RENE. The color-coded overlay shows
> where we have voters solidly "against us" on two issues,
> already solid "for us", and the group with divided opinions
> who must be lobbied to flip. Trading votes on separate
> issues makes it obvious but more often the less obvious
> tactic is to roll up several issues into one omnibus
> vehicle. Imagine the "Feed Orphans, Paint Flagpoles, and Outlaw
> Pornography" Act: FOPFOP. A voter indifferent to parts
> of the package may even so find those provisions tolerable,
> to be favorably voted out along with the one desired
> best intention. But yes, voting in favor of all the other,
> "not the best" stuff does tend to accumulate awfulness.
>
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