[LMB] Conflicta among the Five; nature of the Gods?

Matthew George matt.msg at gmail.com
Tue Jul 27 23:41:32 BST 2021


On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 2:42 AM Douglas Weinfield <douglasw at his.com> wrote:

> Matt-
>
> Why do you say we know there is vigorous conflict among the Five?


Goes all the way back to the first 5GW book, *The Curse of Chalion*.  We're
told of the death of the Golden General and the human sacrifices needed for
the Bastard to slay the Father's chosen.  But the GG doesn't seem to fit
the profile of 'normal' targets for death demons, that is, people who have
committed moral crimes that the law failed to address.  Indeed, the GG
*couldn't* have acted grossly unjustly or he wouldn't have been compatible
with the Father's gift.  It's not merely a matter of worldly forces
entering into conflict, but divine manifestations doing so.



> The most I've seen is perhaps competition for particular attractive souls.
>
> And why do you say that the "Gods seem to be composed of everyone who has
> died and been judged compatible with the existing mass of souls." I don't
> recall seeing this anywhere in text, so I assume you're deducing from
> something you've seen in text-what was that.
>
> FWIW, my sense is that it's somewhat more like the Gods are shepherds or
> gardners, and the souls their flocks or plants. I haven't seen anything
> where the souls become one of the Five. And then, how would soldiers of the
> Mother become female. I mean, sure, mumble mumble transgender mumble magic,
> but it would strike me as weird that masculine souls would become female.
> <Shrugs>.
>
> That said, FWIW, I've had the privilege of spending time with some, oh,
> call them Sufis, who were IMHO highly attained, highly reputable, who had
> experiences of the afterlife while they were still in their bodies. Sure,
> mumble mumble self-induced solipsistic delusions mumble, but these were
> highly grounded very successful people who otherwise were pretty normal in
> the rest of their lives. What they described is pretty close to what you
> describe, albeit with a single Divinity. Souls of the departed become part
> of the Divine, with their roles depending on various characteristics. The
> most, oh, call it vigorous, would maintain consciousness and will for quite
> a long while....
>
> Best,
>
> Doug
>
> Matt said:
> We know that there is, if not war in heaven, at least vigorous conflict
> among the Five.
>
>
> The Gods seem to be composed of everyone who has died and been judged
> compatible with the existing mass of souls.  Imagine if there were entities
> whose opinions were formed by summing up the mass opinion of everyone who
> had died, ever.  Imagine how much resistance to change there would be if
> the living generation were able to be influenced by these entities to any
> significant degree.  The Gods are tolerable only because they're largely
> indifferent to the details of how people live their lives, and to some
> degree seem to be aware of how valuable freedom to dissent and choose is.
> It's not at all hard to picture a world that ossifies into self-reinforcing
> certainty.
>
> Matt G.
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