[LMB] OT: Ivermectin (was: Comercials

Peter Hews Peterhews at protonmail.com
Tue Oct 19 20:03:44 BST 2021




On Monday, October 11th, 2021 at 14:06, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:

> On 10/10/2021 18:52, Peter Hews via Lois-Bujold wrote:
>
> > Speaking as an idiot who has had some in the refrigrator for the last year, as a last-ditch treatment if our protections failed
>
> Oh yeah? The human variant or the veterinary one?

The veterinary one (yes, "horse wormer",) because the human one wasn't available in the UK.  So far as I and my doctor know there is nothing in it incompatible with human biochemistry, and both she and I are capable of the simple arithmetic to correct for body weight.  If I had been unfortunate enough to have a life-threatening reaction to the virus, the fact that some of my medicine came in a tube like toothpaste would have been the very least of my worries.
>
> > , I didn't take my guidance from Trump but from European and African researchers. The substitution of political belief for scientific evidence is not confined to the right.
>
> I did not mention Trump, or conservatives, so why bring them up?

I can't imagine what gave me the idea that there could be any connection between those and ivermectin, I must have been reading some completely misleading news reports.  I should have realised that the idiots you were talking about had no relation whatsoever with those things.  Thank you for correcting my careless assumption. </irony>
>
> But since you say you took guidance from researchers, did you read the
>
> papers yourself? Or did you read summaries of summaries?

I can't claim to have read all the relevant papers, only five or six, IIRC.  I dare say your research goes much deeper than mine, but at the time (mid 2020) I was neck-deep in planning and packing to move while trying to keep me and my wife alive, so I probably didn't go into it as far as I would have in quieter times.  If our doctor was sure of it, I was prepared to accept her advice.
>
> > I got my vaccinations as soon as I could, but I'm keeping my "horse wormer" just in case, because 80% protection is not certainty.
>
> Will you be buying molnupiravir now, since you're covering all your
>
> bases?

I don't begin to imagine I'm covering all my bases, and if I hadn't already had it from the crisis days I probably wouldn't bother; I'm aware that vaccination also means I'm much less at risk of a serious case if I should still catch the bug.  But as I said, since it's here, I'll keep it.

> (and quibble: it's horse de-wormer, not wormer)

Yes, and I call my cat's tapeworm pills "cat wormer," and so did my vet.  I never claimed to be a pedant.
>
> > And for a great many people in Africa vaccination is still not an available option; so their doctors (being ignorant savages) use what they have empirically established works, without waiting for the blessing of the WHO. Doctors in France have done the same when desperate, and it worked there too.
>
> Did it work in double blind studies? How large were the studies? How
>
> large were the control groups? Or was it "we gave it to some people who
>
> were critical, and some of them survived"?

As Thistle explained in the links she sent the group (you read them, of course?) most of the past evidence is epidemological.  The advantage is that you have test populations measured in millions, the drawback is the risk of non-causational correlation, but that was what we had last year.  More recent double blind studies have given ambiguous results so far, but are still ongoing.



Peter Hews

Oh better far to live and die under the brave black flag I fly,
Than play a sanctimonious part with a pirate head and a pirate heart.





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