[LMB] OT: Ivermectin (was: Comercials

Matija Grabnar lmb at matija.com
Tue Oct 19 21:41:25 BST 2021

On 19/10/2021 20:03, Peter Hews via Lois-Bujold wrote:
> On Monday, October 11th, 2021 at 14:06, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 10/10/2021 18:52, Peter Hews via Lois-Bujold wrote:
>>> Speaking as an idiot who has had some in the refrigrator for the last year, as a last-ditch treatment if our protections failed
>> Oh yeah? The human variant or the veterinary one?
> The veterinary one (yes, "horse wormer",) because the human one wasn't available in the UK.  So far as I and my doctor know there is nothing in it incompatible with human biochemistry, and both she and I are capable of the simple arithmetic to correct for body weight.  If I had been unfortunate enough to have a life-threatening reaction to the virus, the fact that some of my medicine came in a tube like toothpaste would have been the very least of my worries.
True. Of course, discontinuing other treatments because you trusted 
ivermectin to save you might be another of those worries.
>> I did not mention Trump, or conservatives, so why bring them up?
> I can't imagine what gave me the idea that there could be any connection between those and ivermectin, I must have been reading some completely misleading news reports.  I should have realised that the idiots you were talking about had no relation whatsoever with those things.  Thank you for correcting my careless assumption. </irony>
Like I said, there are idiots everywhere. In Slovenia, for instance, the 
current government is right wing, and utterly incompetent, changing 
covid-related regulations from one day to the next, and sometimes 
nonsensical (in the winter for instance, you couldn't leave your county, 
but you could go skiing, regardless of location - because the people the 
PM is friends with own ski resorts). So people in Slovenia don't trust 
the government even when the government says they should get vaccinated. 
When I visited, I've had words about that even with some people I 
previously considered level-headed. Fortunately my mother listened to 
me, rather than her friends, and she got fully vaccinated (and will get 
the booster if/when it is offered). None of her friends are US 
>> But since you say you took guidance from researchers, did you read the
>> papers yourself? Or did you read summaries of summaries?
> I can't claim to have read all the relevant papers, only five or six, IIRC.
Did any of them describe a double blind test, or were they just saying 
"we gave it to some people and some of them survived"?
>   I dare say your research goes much deeper than mine, but at the time (mid 2020) I was neck-deep in planning and packing to move while trying to keep me and my wife alive, so I probably didn't go into it as far as I would have in quieter times.
Mid 2020? That's impressive. By all I could find, most of 2020 people 
were talking about Hydroxychloroquine, not Ivermectin, interest in the 
later didn't seem to pick up until start of 2021. Interesting you chose 
Ivermectin back then, not Hcq or remdesivir. Wasn't that also before the 
African studies you were talking about were even performed?
> As Thistle explained in the links she sent the group (you read them, of course?) most of the past evidence is epidemological.
I was just hoping you had a link to something better.
>    The advantage is that you have test populations measured in millions, the drawback is the risk of non-causational correlation, but that was what we had last year.  More recent double blind studies have given ambiguous results so far, but are still ongoing.

Yeah :-(

I have a policy of not taking medicine unless it passed a double blind 
test, and a minimum of that. Someday I may miss a treatment that would 
save me, but the odds don't point that way.

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