[LMB] OT: Dune

Eric Oppen ravenclaweric at gmail.com
Thu Oct 28 20:29:08 BST 2021

A lot of that is because of arbitrary taboos that Herbert built into the
society, such as "No artificial insemination."  Kind of like how he forced
them to use swords by making up "shields" that could stop bullets but not
sword blades.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:26 PM Richard G. Molpus <rgmolpus at flash.net>

> Dune is a chronicle of the biggest engineering failure -ever-.
> The Bene Geserit had been trying to breed the Kwitsach Haderach for
> millenia, to 'give' humanity the savior it 'needed'; what they got would be
> Leto II, the God Emperor.
> Told you so. The Messiah you get isn't the Messiah you want.
> That one side of the final mix would be the Harkonnen family.... should
> have been all the warning needed.
> They should have taken tissue samples from Duke Leta, Lady Gessica, and
> Feyd Rautha, sent them to someone competent - like House Baraputra, on
> Jackson's Whole, and taken delivery of the eventual Utirine Replicator.
> None of this 'will he/she go to bed with the right person' stuff.
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>   On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 1:52 PM, Matthew George<matt.msg at gmail.com>
> wrote:   Calling *Dune* "Lawrence of Arabia in Space" an
> oversimplification, but
> there are clear parallels, particularly in the movie scene where the
> tribesmen attempt to duplicate his snuffing of a candle with his fingers
> and eventually give up and ask him what the trick is.  He informs them that
> the trick lies in not caring that it hurts to do that.
> It's a visually stunning movie - although Villeneuve seems to have an
> allergy to lighting scenes thoroughly.  Yes, shadow is important to
> establishing mood and a sense of space, but a few more glowglobes wouldn't
> have hurt anything.
> It's a very successful adaptation in some senses.  But I don't think it
> stands by itself - without having read the book, many of the nuances of
> what I was seeing would have been lost on me, and even more nuances were
> eliminated completely.
> It's become normal for scenes that don't make it into the movie to show up
> in trailers, but I can't shake the suspicion that much more content was
> filmed than made it to the screen, even given that a 'faithful' filming of
> the first section of the novel would necessarily be at least four hours
> long.  I think comparing this version to the eventual Director's Cut will
> be quite informative, especially as moments critical to character
> development seemed to be missing.  (Eliminating the water chamber and
> putting the "promise to Arrakis' future" onto the palm trees gives an extra
> layer of meaning to their burning, so I suspect that won't show.  But there
> are critical things that we're not shown, merely told, and I find that odd
> given Villeneuve's demonstrated skill.)
> If you hated the novel, why see this movie at all?  Just go rent the recent
> "Little Women" adaptation.
> > Full disclosure: I liked the first Dune movie when it came out, and I
> > don't remember being particularly impressed by the book at the time, but
> > that was a long time ago. Perhaps I should give the book another chance.
> >
> It may not be to your taste, but the novel is indubitably a masterpiece.  I
> don't believe I've ever come across another novel that was a fractal.
> > > One negative thing I read was that it's another "white saviour" movie.
> >
> It isn't.  Villleneuve went out of his way to broaden the casting beyond
> the standard Hollywood extras, and even beyond the vaguely-Arab phenotype
> representing the Fremen... and then people complained.  They'd complain if
> he had an all-black cast, because then the movie would be "appropriative".
> I suggest identifying the racial grievance-seekers and ignoring them; if
> nothing else, the story *Dune* is most closely based upon is a real-world
> "white savior" event; it was precisely because Lawrence was an outsider
> that he could unify the tribes behind a cause, as they feared any one of
> their number growing powerful and dominating the others.
> It's especially ironic in this case because of what Paul ends up becoming
> in the later novels, which was partly due to Herbert's frustration that
> people persisted on seeing him as a Hero instead of a tragic victim and the
> worst thing that ever happened to the Fremen.  He spent the rest of his
> career trying to set people straight, and failing - which rather proved his
> point, but in a way he hated.  People would ask him if he were trying to
> start a religion, like Heinlein and L. Ron, and it annoyed him to no end.
> Matt G.
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