[LMB] OT: Language changes - Fascism

Eric Oppen ravenclaweric at gmail.com
Thu Sep 16 02:09:08 BST 2021


As far back as World War II, George Orwell commented that "fascist" had
been so abused that it meant nothing more than "someone I don't like."

And the various systems subsumed under that name had very great
differences.  Classical Italian Fascism harped on the Nation, but hardly
mentioned Race, if at all.  German National Socialism, OTOH, made Race all
but the be-all and end-all.  Salazar's regime, in Portugal, and Franco's
regime, in Spain, were more like classical caudillo regimes, with a
sprinkling of "fascist" trappings (mostly aped from the Italians, with whom
both regimes were far more sympatico than with the Germans) on top.  And
then you have movements like Leon Degrelle's Rexists in French-speaking
Belgium, or the Ustasche in Croatia (they were so hard-core that even the
Nazis were awed), the Arrow Cross in Hungary, the Iron Guard in Romania
(until Antonescu and the royal government put them down good and hard), and
so on and so forth.

About all they had in common was authoritarian goverments and one-party
systems, and a willingness to see that the Soviets' attempts to exterminate
the people who actually, you know, knew how things worked, hadn't turned
out too well for the Soviets.  If you actually read what Mussolini and
Hitler wrote, you hear both traditional "wings' of politics denounced in
scathing terms.

On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 7:05 PM Pat Mathews <mathews55 at msn.com> wrote:

> Totally agreed. All they mean now is "hssssss! boooo!"
> ________________________________
> From: Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk> on behalf of
> Robert Woodward <Robert_A_Woodward at comcast.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 3:41 PM
> To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. <
> lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Language changes - Fascism
>
>
>
> > On Sep 15, 2021, at 12:42 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold <
> lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Our little Willy had another accident of "whoops, did I make a political
> post by repeating misinformation from the Conservative bubbles on Facebook?
> I had no idea!"
> > So let me correct some of your misconceptions.
> >
>
> I too am of the opinion that “fascism” is overused (by many people); BTW,
> “socialism” is also overused (by different people). In both cases, it is
> used to mean “policies we despise/hate/abhore."
>
> > On 15/09/2021 14:21, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote:
> >> Two examples are racism and Fascism. Racism used to mean discrimination
> based on race. Now it has to do with (to me) I’ll defined power structures
> and there’s no word to describe racially based discrimination. In fact,
> some pundits call racially based discrimination against some groups anti
> racism.
> > I don't think that's true, but to rebut you, I'd have to wade deep into
> US politics, which is a no-no here. So I'll settle for saying that you made
> a very broad statement without providing a single shred of proof.
>
> I have wondered if “racism” is being claimed in cases where the more
> general term “tribalism” would be more appropriate (ancestry is not the
> only criteria for “the other”).
>
> >> Fascism was coined in Italy from an Italian word meaning “a bundle of
> sticks”.
> > True.
> >>  It wasn’t right wing unless compared to Communism.
> >
> > False. It was to the right of every other party in Italy, by Mussolini's
> own definition.
> >
> >
>
> <Snip>
>
> >> Now the dictionary defines Fascism as right wing and conservatives and
> libertarians are called fascists.
> > Because they are explicitly copying from the Fascists instruction books.
> I could go through the checklist for you, but again, US politics.
> >
>
> If libertarians (and I am speaking of the US ones) are matching your
> checklist, your checklist is too broad.
>
> "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
> Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
> —-----------------------------------------------------
> Robert Woodward robertaw at drizzle.com
>
> --
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