[LMB] OT: Language changes - Fascism

Matija Grabnar lmb at matija.com
Thu Sep 16 14:35:25 BST 2021

On 16/09/2021 08:54, Richard G. Molpus wrote:
>   To step into a very stinky cesspit; Hitler and Mussolini were both socialists.
Not true, as I've explained before.
>   Mussolini created the Italian Socialist party,
False. The PSI (Italian Socialist party) was founded in 1892, when 
Mussolini was 9 years old. He was not one of the founders.
>   was editor of the main socialist newspaper;

True, and he was fired, and expelled from PSI in 1914 because he 
advocated military action against Austria-Hungary (this was before the 
murder of Arch-Druke Ferdinand), while the PSI (like the other socialist 
parties at the time) were pacifist.

He funded the Italian Fascist party in direct opposition to the PSI. 
Saying "well he started off as socialist" is like saying the bright side 
of the force Jedi are responsible for Darth Vader's actions, because 
Annakin Skywalker started off on the bright side of the force.

> 'Fascism' became 'right wing' only when Stalin decided that Mussolini and Hitler were the biggest opponents that he had

That's completely untrue. Fascism was declared to be right wing when 
Mussolini founded PNF (National Fascist Party).

And the first people whose heads the Fascists broke were those of 
socialists, labor organizers and union advocates. Because both PNF and 
the NSDAP were funded by industrialists as a way to oppose socialists, 
labor unionists and any other leftists.

> It's the most successful line of bullshit (in the political arena) since Julius Caesar took control of Rome.
The line of bullshit is yours, since it doesn't even pass the most basic 
fact checking (like who founded PSI).
> This is not something Marxists like to admit; but the documentation is there if you look for it.
> (There's a military historian on YouTube named 'TIK' who's been doing a series on these political matters. He documents his points using primary sources. I suggest https://youtu.be/qdY_IMZH2Ko as a starting point.)

I haven't watched that, but based on the stuff you wrote, I can guess 
it's more of the same. There's been a push in conservative circles to 
straight up lie about history in order to pretend that what they are 
pushing is not fascism (and in painting anything to the left of them as 
socialism). Read actual history, people.

Read accounts of the people who were there, like 

Shirer was an American journalist who covered Germany through the 
crucial years. He covered who and what the Nazis were.

> I'm calling PIZZA on this thread.
Lest some should point out that factually untrue stuff you spouted.

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