[LMB] OT: Language changes - Fascism

tidsel egern at protonmail.com
Sat Sep 18 14:38:23 BST 2021


You do not get to serve up such a dish, and then shut everybody else up with 'pizza'.

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On Thursday, September 16th, 2021 at 9:54 AM, Richard G. Molpus <rgmolpus at flash.net> wrote:

> To step into a very stinky cesspit; Hitler and Mussolini were both socialists. Mussolini created the Italian Socialist party, was editor of the main socialist newspaper; was congratulated and applauded by Lenin many times.
>
> 'Fascism' became 'right wing' only when Stalin decided that Mussolini and Hitler were the biggest opponents that he had - and told the Cominterm to push the idea that communism (International socialism) was 100% different from 'National Socialism'. Since then, the communist primary talking point has been that Hitler, Mussolini, and the political parties they led were not in any way socialist - the only true socialism being soviet socialism.
>
> It's the most successful line of bullshit (in the political arena) since Julius Caesar took control of Rome.
>
> Mussolini and Hitler both set up a totalitarian state where the government would control the majority of the economy. Stalin did the same by having government bureaus manage industrial production and distribution; Mussolini came up with the idea that if the management of industries  was stuffed by the party loyalists, everything would be under Party control, maintaining the illusion of private control.
>
> Hitler and the NASDP did the same in Germany. The Party kicked the original management of companies into the street; replacing them with Party Loyalists,
>
> End result; the Political Parties controlled Industry - and so the economy of the nation. Just like Papa Stalin did in the USSR.
>
> The core of Socialism is that the Political Party that controls the Government controls the major industries, and so the national economy. The Soviets did it by creating Government Bureaus to do everything; the Italian corporatists and German NASPD did it by stage-managing the staffing of corporate management.
>
> All controlled the economy by exerting control over the major industries.
>
> This is not something Marxists like to admit; but the documentation is there if you look for it.
>
> (There's a military historian on YouTube named 'TIK' who's been doing a series on these political matters. He documents his points using primary sources. I suggest https://youtu.be/qdY_IMZH2Ko as a starting point.)
>
> I'm calling PIZZA on this thread.
>
> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 02:43:01 PM CDT, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk wrote:
>
> Our little Willy had another accident of "whoops, did I make a political
>
> post by repeating misinformation from the Conservative bubbles on
>
> Facebook? I had no idea!"
>
> So let me correct some of your misconceptions.
>
> On 15/09/2021 14:21, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote:
>
> > Two examples are racism and Fascism. Racism used to mean discrimination based on race. Now it has to do with (to me) I’ll defined power structures and there’s no word to describe racially based discrimination. In fact, some pundits call racially based discrimination against some groups anti racism.
>
> I don't think that's true, but to rebut you, I'd have to wade deep into
>
> US politics, which is a no-no here. So I'll settle for saying that you
>
> made a very broad statement without providing a single shred of proof.
>
> > Fascism was coined in Italy from an Italian word meaning “a bundle of sticks”.
>
> True.
>
> > It wasn’t right wing unless compared to Communism.
>
> False. It was to the right of every other party in Italy, by Mussolini's
>
> own definition.
>
> And as the proof of the pudding is in the eating, Mussolini's first
>
> enemies (just like with Hitler) were the syndicalists and worker
>
> organizers who annoyed their industrialist financiers.
>
> Unlike in Soviet Union, being a big industrialist was A-OK with both
>
> Hitler and Mussolini. Own a big factory? As long as you make a generous
>
> contribution to the party coffers, you will have no problems, and plenty
>
> of sales to the government. Any labor trouble will be dealt with by
>
> either the Fascists party thugs (early on) or by the police (once the
>
> Fascists were in power).
>
> Soviet Union was collectivist for everybody. Fascists Italy and Nazi
>
> Germany were only collectivist for the little guy, but very much a
>
> heaven for the big industrialists, the clergy, and the aristocracy.
>
> With Hitler, the name of the party had socialism in the name for exactly
>
> the same reason German Democratic Republic and the Democratic People's
>
> Republic of Korea have "democratic" in the name - to fool the naive.
>
> Industrialists and share holders made out like bandits under Hitler. IG
>
> Farben, Siemens, Krupp,  Fiat, were just some of the big industrial
>
> concerns that flourished under the two regimes, and none of them were
>
> nationalized under Fascists or under Nazis. While Mussolini nationalized
>
> a lot of industries, during the depression, he did it when they were
>
> going under, and he only nationalized the industries that were going
>
> under - not wholesale like they did in the Soviet Union.
>
> And while the Soviet Union was mostly atheist (until Stalin needed the
>
> support of the priests, then they were OK), Fascists and Nazis were very
>
> God with us, and had the support of church authorities from the start.
>
> The church likes to pretend that they were against Fascists and Nazis,
>
> but I had family who lived under Italian occupation during WW2, and they
>
> told me the church very much supported the Fascists government.
>
> > Now the dictionary defines Fascism as right wing and conservatives and libertarians are called fascists.
>
> Because they are explicitly copying from the Fascists instruction books.
>
> I could go through the checklist for you, but again, US politics.
>
> You didn't change the Subject line when you wrote your deceitful little
>
> screed, so I did it for you.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rgmolpus at flash.net
>
> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
>
> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to egern at protonmail.com
>
> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
>
> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold



More information about the Lois-Bujold mailing list