[LMB] OT: People Changing Political Words

Pat Mathews mathews55 at msn.com
Sat Sep 18 16:36:53 BST 2021

Eric and all - oddly enough, the workers the various Marxist parties tried to represent, had little or no taste for revolution as long as they could get a decent job at a decent wage. The period's attempts to label such aims as "socialism" drew a lot of people to the various movements, which only ended with FDR's various reforms.

Not that those in power ever learn from that, says she, cynically, having watched the Second Gilded Age in full swing since 1984.

From: Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk> on behalf of Eric Oppen <ravenclaweric at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 9:30 AM
To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: People Changing Political Words

In a lot of ways, what we might call "classical socialism" never recovered
from the shock of 1914.  After years and years of them preaching the
solidarity of workers against the "oppressors," they just couldn't process
the sight of the workers they so idealized marching off happily to war
behind their "bourgeois" officers, instead of shooting their officers and
embracing their "comrades" on the other side.

And if you look into it, you find that the Italian and German regimes did
do a lot of "socialistic" stuff.  Some of you keep calling Hitler a
right-winger, but he had NO patience for hangovers from the past---he
pretty much ended even the nominal independence of a lot of the states that
made up the Reich, like Bavaria.  In WWI the Bavarian army, as well as a
few other states', were nominally independent organizations, but not in

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 10:04 AM David McMillan <skyefire at skyefire.org>

> On 9/18/2021 9:15 AM, Peter Hews via Lois-Bujold wrote:
> >
> > He may have been influenced by the well known meme claiming that since
> the full name of the Nazi Party was "National Socialists," Hitler was
> obviously a communist, therefore all communists are Nazis :-}
>      Unless I'm misremembering, NS /did/ in fact begin as a branch of
> the international socialist movement.  One that substituted nationalism
> for "class struggle," hence the name.
>      IIRC, it was started (in Italy?) by subset of the Marxist movement
> that was frustrated that the "glorious global revolution" just wasn't
> happening, and decided they needed a more effective way to energize the
> proletariat.  Finding an "other" to whip up a hate movement against was
> the solution they chose.
> --
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