[LMB] OT: People Changing Political Words

Matija Grabnar lmb at matija.com
Sun Sep 26 21:58:01 BST 2021

On 26/09/2021 05:58, Damien Sullivan wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 05:32:49PM +0100, Bujold list wrote:
>> On 18/09/2021 16:36, Pat Mathews wrote:
>>> Eric and all - oddly enough, the workers the various Marxist parties tried to represent, had little or no taste for revolution as long as they could get a decent job at a decent wage.
>> Decent job at a decent wage is pretty much the definition of socialism. Some
> Strong disagree.  I'd say core definitions of socialism are "social control of
> the means of production" or "worker control of the means of production",
> and a general hostility to wage labor for private employers (and
> hostility to landlords).

Funny, that's what I would call communism. What would you call 
communism, then?

Uh, unless under "worker control of the means of production" you mean 
something like giving the workers into stock options and making them 

Because that's something that could be argued either way.

>    The least radical form of such sociaism would
> be a market society of the self-employed and worker-owned cooperatives,
> and laws strongly favoring renting turning into ownership.

Surely the least radical form of socialism would be democratic 
socialism? Like they practice in Germany, and in the Nordic countries?

Which means support for workers' rights, unions and collective 
bargaining? (Unions that work, not like in the US).

The only form of socialism that survived the last 70+ years? Which is 
why I think of it when I speak of socialism?

> OTOH words pick up different meanings, and decades of the right labeling
> anything government as "socialism" has diluted the meaning in many uses.

BTW, since you mention hostility to landlords: Do you know how Adam 
Smith (the patron saint of capitalism) felt about landlords?

I understand he took a rather dim view of them.

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