From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 00:05:54 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 18:05:54 -0600 Subject: [LMB] 2022 Message-ID: Happy New year! May 2022 be better then 2021! From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 00:15:51 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 18:15:51 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: good news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congratulations. That must be a relief. On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 3:20 PM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > My insurance company finally ponied up $942.36. > > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From fred.fredex at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 04:22:14 2022 From: fred.fredex at gmail.com (Fred) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 23:22:14 -0500 Subject: [LMB] personal news In-Reply-To: References: <48d71d88-02ec-0d7a-6cc4-019804c4f947@mindspring.com> <57E65A08-EBC7-45B0-B171-35A960DD17CC@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: LordV list ???????????? On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 5:18 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Dec 31, 2021, at 2:22 PM, Kathy Collett > wrote: > > > > Hear, hear! Thank you all! I joined the LordV list first, in 2002, and > this list in 2003, so I?ve (only) been on it for nearly 19 years. > > I was on this list for a while then GAFIATed, but when Lois was in Denver, > she recognized my name, and I re-joined. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to fred.fredex at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From nlbarber at alumni.emory.edu Sat Jan 1 04:42:01 2022 From: nlbarber at alumni.emory.edu (Nancy L Barber) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 23:42:01 -0500 Subject: [LMB] personal news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40ED2E5E-135F-484E-95A5-26CD3E9F9A5D@alumni.emory.edu> LordV was a spin-off list of LordPeter, or maybe of Piffle, the OT list for LordPeter. LordPeter is for discussion of the Lord Peter Wimsey mysteries by Dorothy L Sayers, and there?s a good bit of crossover among Lord Peter and Bujold fans. LordV died in the great Yahoo Mailing List Death, IIRC. Nancy > On Dec 31, 2021, at 11:23 PM, Fred wrote: > > ?LordV list ???????????? From litalex at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 05:47:39 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 00:47:39 -0500 Subject: [LMB] 2022 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, > On Dec 31, 2021, at 19:05, Raymond Collins wrote: > > Happy New year! May 2022 be better then 2021! Happy New Year, too! And gods, please let 2022 be better than 2021. little Alex From saffronrose at me.com Sat Jan 1 08:21:18 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 00:21:18 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Emmy Noether OT: In-Reply-To: <13705226-6248-452E-84D8-AE7EBA94FBC6@panix.com> References: <13705226-6248-452E-84D8-AE7EBA94FBC6@panix.com> Message-ID: On Dec 31, 2021, at 4:03 AM, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > ? > She was the most eminent mathematician of the 20th century, despite women being > almost completely banned from learning higher mathematics. Despite the politics of > mathematicians which contain much penis waving contests, her social position made > it possible for her to persist. Thanks! What brought her to mind just now? Marina From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 08:36:44 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 02:36:44 -0600 Subject: [LMB] 2022 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Amen! On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 11:47 PM Alex Kwan wrote: > Hello, > > > On Dec 31, 2021, at 19:05, Raymond Collins wrote: > > > > Happy New year! May 2022 be better then 2021! > > Happy New Year, too! > > And gods, please let 2022 be better than 2021. > > little Alex > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From egern at protonmail.com Sat Jan 1 10:24:14 2022 From: egern at protonmail.com (tidsel) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 10:24:14 +0000 Subject: [LMB] 2022 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hear hear and a happy new year to you too :-) Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ??????? Original Message ??????? On Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 1:05 AM, Raymond Collins wrote: > Happy New year! May 2022 be better then 2021! > --------------------------------------------- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to egern at protonmail.com > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 1 13:36:42 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 13:36:42 +0000 Subject: [LMB] =?windows-1252?q?OT=3A_it=92s_not_Gregor=92s_birthday_but?= =?windows-1252?q?=85?= Message-ID: Happy New Year!!! William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 1 16:55:43 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:55:43 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade Message-ID: Can anyone else remember watching the Rose Parade on a black and white TV? William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 1 17:03:43 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 10:03:43 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> > On Jan 1, 2022, at 9:55 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > Can anyone else remember watching the Rose Parade on a black and white TV? Yep. I remember listening to ?Prairie Home Companion?, where the mother of a family was persuaded to go along with the family?s desire for a TV (before color), with the magic words ?Tournament of Roses Parade?. I saw it in person one time when Eisenhower was the Grand Marshall. From jpolowin at hotmail.com Sat Jan 1 17:57:23 2022 From: jpolowin at hotmail.com (Joel Polowin) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 17:57:23 +0000 Subject: [LMB] personal news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fred wrote: > LordV list ???????????? It sounds like a mailing list for Death Eaters. :-) Having just reread _Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets_, I got to wondering about possible anagrams of "I am Lord Vorkosigan". I fed it into the Internet Anagram Server (https://new.wordsmith.org/anagram/), and got this list of results: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12xcK6OIyotdkc07_oWh-wIniHsiAMtWd/view It's a *long* list, for all that the server doesn't include proper names that aren't also regular words. There are 147,059 items; the file size is 3.1 MB. I haven't read the whole thing. "Admiral Vigors Nook" is one of the first items. Other fun ones are "Mikado Valors Groin", "Odalisk Raving Room", "A Raving Lord Ski Moo", and -- allowing for word rearrangement -- "Moor Is Vaginal Dork". Joel From fred.fredex at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 18:02:57 2022 From: fred.fredex at gmail.com (Fred) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 13:02:57 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> Message-ID: yes! my parents got our first TV in 1952. On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 12:04 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 1, 2022, at 9:55 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > > > Can anyone else remember watching the Rose Parade on a black and white > TV? > > Yep. I remember listening to ?Prairie Home Companion?, where the mother > of a family was persuaded to go along with the family?s desire for a TV > (before color), with the magic words ?Tournament of Roses Parade?. > > I saw it in person one time when Eisenhower was the Grand Marshall. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to fred.fredex at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From c_muir68 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 1 18:12:37 2022 From: c_muir68 at hotmail.com (C.Muir) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 18:12:37 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: mike bernardi Message-ID: Has anyone heard from him recently? I've been trying to get in touch offlist without success. From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 1 18:26:02 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 11:26:02 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> Message-ID: <1554A67C-23A7-40F9-9C4E-99760DC08B40@brazee.net> > On Jan 1, 2022, at 11:02 AM, Fred wrote: > > yes! my parents got our first TV in 1952. You beat us. I suspect we got ours around 1956. From mathews55 at msn.com Sat Jan 1 18:57:35 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 18:57:35 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: good news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, that is good news. Happy New Year! ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Raymond Collins Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 5:15 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: good news Congratulations. That must be a relief. On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 3:20 PM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > My insurance company finally ponied up $942.36. > > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From mathews55 at msn.com Sat Jan 1 19:06:18 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:06:18 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Emmy Noether OT: In-Reply-To: <13705226-6248-452E-84D8-AE7EBA94FBC6@panix.com> References: <13705226-6248-452E-84D8-AE7EBA94FBC6@panix.com> Message-ID: Hail to a great pioneer! Oh, yes, you bet I remember set theory from my college days. And in fact, found it fun, unlike other branches of higher math. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of WalterStuartBushell Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 5:03 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: [LMB] Emmy Noether OT: She was the most eminent mathematician of the 20th century, despite women being almost completely banned from learning higher mathematics. Despite the politics of mathematicians which contain much penis waving contests, her social position made it possible for her to persist. She did it not for fame or glory but because she wanted to do mathematics. Fleeing Germany for America during the great unpleasantness there for Jewish people she found employment in a small woman?s college. Considered minor by mathematicians he proof that every symmetry implied a conservation law and conversely this insight has been major in physics. For example, the theory of Supersymmetry has been major and physicist have been search for symmetry and conservation laws. For more information consult Wikipedia and more authoritative sources. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From brashley46 at gmail.com Sat Jan 1 19:48:00 2022 From: brashley46 at gmail.com (B. Ross Ashley) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 14:48:00 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:55:43 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > Can anyone else remember watching the Rose Parade on a black and white TV? Well, yes! Also the Mummers' Parade from Philadelphia, which in recent Before Times I could catch on the internet. This year's parade is ON! 9AM Eastern Time, tomorrow, on PHL17.com (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/B8A2AE55-22E5-4C03-B077-2C00E05C2C9D at getmailspring.com/1?redirect=PHL17.com&recipient=bG9pcy1idWpvbGRAbGlzdHMuaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVr) . Would have been today but Philly got rain. Last year got COVIDed out, but this year the Fancies, Wenches, and Comic Brigades etc. are back. I watched the Mummers parade as a little kid in Connecticut when one of the big networks broadcast it. Missed it when we moved to Florida in '55. Discovered it on Youtube a few years ago, and have been watching ever since. The String Bands have entirely too many saxophones for my taste these days, but there is still nothing like massed banjos strutting down Broad Street. And the Comic Brigades during the Trump presidency were deadly funny! -- Ross in Toronto From kevink45 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 1 20:33:35 2022 From: kevink45 at hotmail.com (Kevin Kennedy) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 20:33:35 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> Message-ID: I don't usually watch parades on tv. But since I live in Indianapolis, I go to the 500 parade on the Saturday of Memorial Day weekend. I have a shady spot at the start of things, to watch. The side street is a mustering area, that's fun to see. And off to the right is the park where the balloons inflate. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Fred Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 1:02 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Parade yes! my parents got our first TV in 1952. On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 12:04 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 1, 2022, at 9:55 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > > > Can anyone else remember watching the Rose Parade on a black and white > TV? > > Yep. I remember listening to ?Prairie Home Companion?, where the mother > of a family was persuaded to go along with the family?s desire for a TV > (before color), with the magic words ?Tournament of Roses Parade?. > > I saw it in person one time when Eisenhower was the Grand Marshall. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to fred.fredex at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to kevink45 at hotmail.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 1 20:47:49 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 20:47:49 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: personal news In-Reply-To: <08077604-3203-4D34-8975-B7FF393D119A@me.com> References: <08077604-3203-4D34-8975-B7FF393D119A@me.com> Message-ID: <89f1tgtmmujhdrq4tn002r0oha09att41m@4ax.com> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:37:55 -0800, "A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold" wrote: > >Husband has suggested we celebrate our ?long-playing record? in four months. Those who grew up before cassette tapes will get the reference. LPs persisted through the arrival (and near departure) of cassette. I still have a turntable (in a system that cost more than any car I've ever owned) but I no longer have a cassette deck in the main system. Cassettes seem to have some sort of cult following, mind: a friend who has recently liquidated most of his assets due to a move from a substantial house to a canal boat tells me that blank "metal" C90s are fetching around ?20 each on eBay. I must dig out the ones I have, there's about ?500 worth. -- Nature Is Better At Biology Than You Are - Aqua From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 1 20:52:05 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 20:52:05 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Tell me about your masks, was: William may have been right after all In-Reply-To: References: <808801566.2025750.1640412301825@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3kf1tg9bj7cc1tvnqurar4vf7v9c1arhqe@4ax.com> On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 02:51:59 -0600, Raymond Collins wrote: >A friend gave me a BinaxNOW Covid19 antigen test, for Christmas day, >tomorrow. They're planning to to vacation in in Iceland so I'm taking the >self test before I leave for the Christmas celebration at their home. I'm >pretty confident it'll turn up negative, but it's a weird feeling that I >need to take a health test before I go. >So far, subconsciously, I've managed to misplace the damn Covid test and >the instruction sheet each. >This Christmas has proven the most INTERESTING Christmas ever. Our daughter is flying back to France tomorrow, and we've had to get an antigen test (administered by someone else; the home tests are too easy to game) before she's allowed to fly. On arrival, she'll have to take another after 2 days. And then reverse it all before coming home. -- Nature Is Better At Biology Than You Are - Aqua From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 1 21:11:51 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:11:51 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I saw the Mummers parade in person one time before we moved from PA. It must have been in the ?50s. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of B. Ross Ashley Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 12:48:00 PM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Parade On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:55:43 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > Can anyone else remember watching the Rose Parade on a black and white TV? Well, yes! Also the Mummers' Parade from Philadelphia, which in recent Before Times I could catch on the internet. This year's parade is ON! 9AM Eastern Time, tomorrow, on PHL17.com (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.getmailspring.com%2Flink%2FB8A2AE55-22E5-4C03-B077-2C00E05C2C9D%40getmailspring.com%2F1%3Fredirect%3DPHL17.com%26recipient%3DbG9pcy1idWpvbGRAbGlzdHMuaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVr&data=04%7C01%7C%7C174c321dd5ab4cc6435908d9cd5fa5b4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637766632954055148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=eBjUeegSVr0onP0XEq0HGuM6y9E4Qag8%2BTK%2FpWL8NW8%3D&reserved=0) . Would have been today but Philly got rain. Last year got COVIDed out, but this year the Fancies, Wenches, and Comic Brigades etc. are back. I watched the Mummers parade as a little kid in Connecticut when one of the big networks broadcast it. Missed it when we moved to Florida in '55. Discovered it on Youtube a few years ago, and have been watching ever since. The String Bands have entirely too many saxophones for my taste these days, but there is still nothing like massed banjos strutting down Broad Street. And the Comic Brigades during the Trump presidency were deadly funny! -- Ross in Toronto -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C174c321dd5ab4cc6435908d9cd5fa5b4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637766632954055148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Z9RZjyD7sT20t8Hzsni1x%2BFg0fKoXJWECY4hEbl7sKs%3D&reserved=0 From alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca Sat Jan 1 21:12:17 2022 From: alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca (alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:12:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [LMB] personal news In-Reply-To: <57E65A08-EBC7-45B0-B171-35A960DD17CC@hamilton.edu> References: <48d71d88-02ec-0d7a-6cc4-019804c4f947@mindspring.com> <57E65A08-EBC7-45B0-B171-35A960DD17CC@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Dec 2021, Kathy Collett wrote: > I am also 3 1/2 years older than my husband (also a fan but not on the > list). I was 22 when we met ? just graduated from Wellesley and > starting a second BA at Cambridge ? and he was still 18 ? I think he may > have turned 19 a week or so after we met ? just starting at Cambridge; > we met singing together, but consolidated our friendship in the > university fantasy literary society and to a lesser extent the SF > society. He loaned me some Heinlein and I loaned him C.S. Lewis?s space > trilogy (ironically, since he?s English and I?m American). We married > in 1978, after I?d been a year in graduate school at U. Penn. and he > came to America to start graduate school at Princeton ? so we?ve now > been married 43 years. What a lovely story, Kathy - a true meeting of minds! May you have many more good years together. My SO is 9 months younger than me, and we've been together more than 35 years. Not sure how the time went so fast... Alayne -- Alayne McGregor alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca What we need is a tough new kind of feminism with no illusions. ... We need a kind of feminism that aims not just to assimilate into the institutions that men have created over the centuries, but to infiltrate and subvert them. -- Barbara Ehrenreich From alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca Sat Jan 1 21:23:26 2022 From: alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca (alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:23:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [LMB] Cassettes/LPs Re: OT: personal news In-Reply-To: <89f1tgtmmujhdrq4tn002r0oha09att41m@4ax.com> References: <08077604-3203-4D34-8975-B7FF393D119A@me.com> <89f1tgtmmujhdrq4tn002r0oha09att41m@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jan 2022, Marc Wilson wrote: > LPs persisted through the arrival (and near departure) of cassette. I > still have a turntable (in a system that cost more than any car I've > ever owned) but I no longer have a cassette deck in the main system. Several stores here in Ottawa either specialize in or do much of their business in vinyl, both vintage and newly-released. People love it. I have a turntable which needs a new needle, and I've kept a bunch of albums that weren't released on CD or which I've found since second-hand that were rarities, mostly jazz or folk. > Cassettes seem to have some sort of cult following, mind: a friend who > has recently liquidated most of his assets due to a move from a > substantial house to a canal boat tells me that blank "metal" C90s are > fetching around ?20 each on eBay. I must dig out the ones I have, > there's about ?500 worth. Cassettes, even with Dolby D, never had good sound reproduction, and they'd fail in a tangle of tape at the worst possible time - a real PITA. You couldn't easily rewind to hear a specific track, either. I've only kept a few that I taped off the radio or otherwise weren't available. Alayne who way prefers CDs/DVDs -- Alayne McGregor alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca What we need is a tough new kind of feminism with no illusions. ... We need a kind of feminism that aims not just to assimilate into the institutions that men have created over the centuries, but to infiltrate and subvert them. -- Barbara Ehrenreich From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 1 21:24:51 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 21:24:51 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Worries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4kh1tg5jakvepbvi6c0pqfpdvphgn0qa4m@4ax.com> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 14:45:43 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >As if we didn't have enough problems, this year the US border patrol has seized enough fentanyl to kill 1/3 of the population of the world. Anyone think that they got all or even most of it? It gives citations for its claims, or else it gets the hose again. -- Cardinal I think your number is up. You'd better change direction. Emigrate to St. Louis. Or sin. - coj. From kknight at fastmail.fm Sat Jan 1 21:25:04 2022 From: kknight at fastmail.fm (Katrina Knight) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 16:25:04 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Birthday Tixie for December 31 In-Reply-To: <142466400.469690.1640961020873@mail.yahoo.com> References: <142466400.469690.1640961020873.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <142466400.469690.1640961020873@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <202201012125.201LPF4K030335@lists.herald.co.uk> At 09:30 AM 12/31/2021 M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: >Tonight's simple gift is truly simple, but just a bit magical, >like this day of the year. It is a tiny egg timer, one for each >of you, that gives you five minutes of free time to do with >what you wish. Five minutes may not seem like much, but bending >the laws of space and time is hard, even for a Birthday Tixie. >Do what you will with the time -- breathe, make a phone call, >write a text or just grab a drink and relax. I like it! Thank you. I had a good birthday. My sister bought me a chocolate cake and we had cake and champagne with strawberries after dinner - a nice, relaxed celebration. And a friend send me a message with a little song he wrote and sang for me. It made me smile. -- Katrina Knight kknight at fastmail.fm Please be aware that I am in the middle of preparing to move and not at my computer much so I may not respond quickly. From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 1 21:27:10 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 21:27:10 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Worries In-Reply-To: References: <4e6345b5-4d15-317f-13f7-ad29043592cf@cox.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 22:32:19 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >As I said before this was in my local newspaper, and local broadcast TV. I don't consider either "right wing". Yes, I do look at sites that many would consider "right wing" but that is not all I look at. > >Are you saying that, if you can find conflicting information on anything I post then my post must come from a "right wing? Source and therefore be wrong? Or are you just saying that there is no problem with fentanyl overdoses? "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong: but that's how the smart money bets." - RAH. In other words; you have previous form for little factoid grenades that don't bear close examination. -- Cardinal I think your number is up. You'd better change direction. Emigrate to St. Louis. Or sin. - coj. From alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca Sat Jan 1 21:39:35 2022 From: alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca (alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:39:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [LMB] Recent fentanyl stats Re: OT: Worries In-Reply-To: <4kh1tg5jakvepbvi6c0pqfpdvphgn0qa4m@4ax.com> References: <4kh1tg5jakvepbvi6c0pqfpdvphgn0qa4m@4ax.com> Message-ID: Just saw this NPR story yesterday. Does not mention imports: https://www.npr.org/2021/12/30/1069062738/more-than-a-million-americans-have-died-from-overdoses-during-the-opioid-epidemi More than a million Americans have died from overdoses during the opioid epidemic December 30, 202110:26 AM ET Deaths due to drug overdose have topped a million for the first time since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began collecting data on the problem more than two decades ago. A study released Thursday by the National Center for Health Statistics, a division of the CDC, found that 932,364 people died in the U.S. from fatal overdoses from 1999 through 2020. Separate preliminary data from the CDC shows another 100,000 drug deaths expected in 2021. [...]In recent years, most overdose deaths have involved illicit fentanyl, a powerful synthetic opioid, as well as cocaine and methamphetamines. [...] There is this DEA report from 2020, which doesn't indicate a massive increase nor the stats William quotes: https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf The flow of fentanyl into the United States in 2019 is more diverse compared to the start of the fentanyl crisis in 2014, with new source countries and new transit countries emerging as significant trafficking nodes. This is exacerbating the already multi-faceted fentanyl crisis by introducing additional source countries into the global supply chain of fentanyl, fentanyl-related substances, and fentanyl precursors. Further, this complicates law enforcement operations and policy efforts to stem the flow of fentanyl into the United States. While Mexico and China are the primary source countries for fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances trafficked directly into the United States, India is emerging as a source for finished fentanyl powder and fentanyl precursor chemicals. This report from August 24, 2021 again indicates a continuing and serious problem with illicit fentanyl coing into the US, but not a jump in the amount nor those stats: https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/Illicit_Fentanyl_from_China-An_Evolving_Global_Operation.pdf Alayne > On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 14:45:43 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH > wrote: >> As if we didn't have enough problems, this year the US border patrol >> has seized enough fentanyl to kill 1/3 of the population of the world. >> Anyone think that they got all or even most of it? On Sat, 1 Jan 2022, Marc Wilson wrote: > It gives citations for its claims, or else it gets the hose again. -- > Cardinal -- Alayne McGregor alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca What we need is a tough new kind of feminism with no illusions. ... We need a kind of feminism that aims not just to assimilate into the institutions that men have created over the centuries, but to infiltrate and subvert them. -- Barbara Ehrenreich From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 1 21:40:11 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 21:40:11 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: BBC Ghosts, was: Merry Christmas! To all and everyone! In-Reply-To: <2039877248.2132715.1640499463985@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2039877248.2132715.1640499463985@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1gi1tgpv07iaoblro9rgom12j4eisd992s@4ax.com> On Sun, 26 Dec 2021 06:17:43 +0000 (UTC), "M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold" wrote: > > >Today is Boxing Day! As an American, I think it sounds so funny and exotic, and I tend to imagine Muhammed Ali, and then giving gifts to the people who help us all year long.? Nothing to do with the sport, of course; the day that servants and selected tradesmen received their "Christmas box" at the big houses. -- A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. - Greek proverb From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 1 21:44:16 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 21:44:16 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Streaming Services In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ji1tgpp28hsdj4vhmpsbflu4qq51r1vcn@4ax.com> On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 14:41:05 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >The fate of the entertainment industry is of importance to me both as a consumer and because of my son Brian's work. More on that later. Some of the following is US centric but since it doesn't involve government (yet) I hope no one will be offended. >Since the shutdowns, streaming services have become of prime importance. It has become increasingly difficult to find content. This is especially true if you prefer not to pay per view fees. Some of this was happening even earlier. An example was Star Trek: Discovery. I watched the first couple of episodes on broadcast TV. It then switched to the CBS streaming. I really didn't like it that much and I wasn't going to pay to watch it. >I currently subscribe to Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney +, and Hulu. I also have an unused subscription to ESPN but I watch very little sports these days. >More and more things are available only on particular services. I used to watch Dr. Who on our local PBS station, then on Netflix, now it seems to only be available as a pay per view or Britbox. I watched the Canadian show, Heartland, through the 13 seasons that it was available on Netflix and I'm hoping they will make a deal for the next two. >That's the key. Will the different production companies make deals with which streaming services or start their own like Paramount +? It used to be that the broadcast networks controlled content and did a poor job of it. (Example, Fox with Firefy) Now it seems to be umpteen different streaming services with, it seems, more every week. >I read an article recently that said people were reaching their limit on how many services they were willing to subscribe to. That seems to be true in my case. What is the sense of the list? We have several hundred channels in the UK on "Freeview", which is exactly what it sounds like. We also have Sky, BritBox, Netflix etc, and Sky has a bunch of optional packages. I also have Amazon Prime, mainly for free deliveries, but it also gets me e.g. The Expanse, which I've been binge-watching during the holidays (3 series in 3 days). There are all sorts of complex interactions between them: BritBox is bundled with Amazon (at a discount) and Netflix can be had via Sky. -- George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's killed all 140 characters. - David Gerrold From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 1 21:44:44 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 14:44:44 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: personal news In-Reply-To: <89f1tgtmmujhdrq4tn002r0oha09att41m@4ax.com> References: <08077604-3203-4D34-8975-B7FF393D119A@me.com> <89f1tgtmmujhdrq4tn002r0oha09att41m@4ax.com> Message-ID: <8135183C-E6D5-4A9E-AEB6-3F7E6EEADCE5@brazee.net> > On Jan 1, 2022, at 1:47 PM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > LPs persisted through the arrival (and near departure) of cassette. I > still have a turntable (in a system that cost more than any car I've > ever owned) but I no longer have a cassette deck in the main system. LPs were a big advantage. Before then ?albums? were books with a bunch of records in them. We could stack them on the turnstile. > > Cassettes seem to have some sort of cult following, mind: a friend who > has recently liquidated most of his assets due to a move from a > substantial house to a canal boat tells me that blank "metal" C90s are > fetching around ?20 each on eBay. I must dig out the ones I have, > there's about ?500 worth. I digitized all of my cassettes, all of my music is now on my computer. From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 1 21:50:29 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 21:50:29 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Streaming Services In-Reply-To: <2C7D4D75-9D3F-46AB-A7EC-5CAB90D286F3@brazee.net> References: <2C7D4D75-9D3F-46AB-A7EC-5CAB90D286F3@brazee.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 09:38:16 -0700, Howard J Brazee wrote: > > >> On Dec 25, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: >> >> The worst thing IMHO that can happen to consumer choice is if the streaming services get bundled like cable channels are, so that with your cable subscription you get netflix, peacock and disney+ included in the price, regardless of what you want > >They can integrate the controls and still offer choice. They *can*. But they (on the whole) don't - because they'd be offering individual channels at a few pennies a month, and they (a) don't want the admin overhead and (b) are quite content for you to pay for 10 channels you don't want to get one you do. The increase in the number of players, on the other hand, may lead to competition to have more tailored packages (there's no tech barrier to this, it's just the will to do it). We have, for the first time, subscribed to Sky (now that Murdoch and his spawn have no part in it any longer: I'm not sure Comcast are that much better, but they've not as far as I know corrupted the UK political process in the Murdoch manner). And I like the fact that I can start and stop channels a month at a time, so I can add sports for the World Cup season and then drop it again. And the "Sky Glass" TV is a fine thing. -- George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's killed all 140 characters. - David Gerrold From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 1 21:52:41 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 21:52:41 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking In-Reply-To: References: <6052A656-8772-4BE2-86E6-79862CF238BB@gmail.com> <545A05F9-F308-45F9-8065-79571445D8EF@comcast.net> <21521106-fbf9-850b-4d8a-855649955185@matija.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:20:21 -0700, Howard J Brazee wrote: > >I?ve noticed lots of scratched bumpers on cars in San Francisco. You should see how they park in Rome. -- George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's killed all 140 characters. - David Gerrold From mathews55 at msn.com Sat Jan 1 22:56:50 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 22:56:50 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: BBC Ghosts, was: Merry Christmas! To all and everyone! In-Reply-To: <1gi1tgpv07iaoblro9rgom12j4eisd992s@4ax.com> References: <2039877248.2132715.1640499463985@mail.yahoo.com> <1gi1tgpv07iaoblro9rgom12j4eisd992s@4ax.com> Message-ID: In one of the comic strips a week ago - I think it was Foxtrot -the father and his two sons were watching a marathon of boxing-themed movies he day after Christmas, while the mother and daughter were indulgently, a bit irritatedly, putting up with it. Yes, as an American who reads, I got the joke. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Marc Wilson Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 2:40 PM To: LMB Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: BBC Ghosts, was: Merry Christmas! To all and everyone! On Sun, 26 Dec 2021 06:17:43 +0000 (UTC), "M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold" wrote: > > >Today is Boxing Day! As an American, I think it sounds so funny and exotic, and I tend to imagine Muhammed Ali, and then giving gifts to the people who help us all year long. Nothing to do with the sport, of course; the day that servants and selected tradesmen received their "Christmas box" at the big houses. -- A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. - Greek proverb -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 1 23:04:18 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:04:18 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: BBC Ghosts, was: Merry Christmas! To all and everyone! In-Reply-To: References: <2039877248.2132715.1640499463985@mail.yahoo.com> <1gi1tgpv07iaoblro9rgom12j4eisd992s@4ax.com> Message-ID: <4B3C1B22-6A49-407B-91B3-A26378EA5200@brazee.net> > On Jan 1, 2022, at 3:56 PM, Pat Mathews wrote: > > In one of the comic strips a week ago - I think it was Foxtrot -the father and his two sons were watching a marathon of boxing-themed movies he day after Christmas, while the mother and daughter were indulgently, a bit irritatedly, putting up with it. Yes, as an American who reads, I got the joke. https://foxtrot.com/2021/12/26/boxing-day/ From proto at panix.com Sun Jan 2 00:36:11 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:36:11 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Emmy Noether OT: In-Reply-To: References: <13705226-6248-452E-84D8-AE7EBA94FBC6@panix.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 1, 2022, at 3:21 AM, A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > On Dec 31, 2021, at 4:03 AM, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > Thanks! What brought her to mind just now? > > Marina I don?t remember. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to proto at panix.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold ? "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." - Attributed to Plato From proto at panix.com Sun Jan 2 00:43:40 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:43:40 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: personal news In-Reply-To: <89f1tgtmmujhdrq4tn002r0oha09att41m@4ax.com> References: <08077604-3203-4D34-8975-B7FF393D119A@me.com> <89f1tgtmmujhdrq4tn002r0oha09att41m@4ax.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 1, 2022, at 3:47 PM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > LPs persisted through the arrival (and near departure) of cassette. I > still have a turntable (in a system that cost more than any car I've > ever owned) but I no longer have a cassette deck in the main system. People are still buying new equipment for playing them and new LPs are being pressed even I thing recorded direct to disc. ? MD. MS. in Law Robert Lustig ?If there?s a label on the food, it?s a warning label. That means it has been processed. Real food doesn?t need a label.? From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 00:59:19 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 18:59:19 -0600 Subject: [LMB] =?utf-8?b?T1Q6IGl04oCZcyBub3QgR3JlZ29y4oCZcyBiaXJ0aGRheSBi?= =?utf-8?b?dXTigKY=?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Happy New Year ? On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 7:36 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > Happy New Year!!! > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From phoenix at mindstalk.net Sun Jan 2 02:25:24 2022 From: phoenix at mindstalk.net (Damien Sullivan) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:25:24 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Recent fentanyl stats Re: OT: Worries In-Reply-To: References: <4kh1tg5jakvepbvi6c0pqfpdvphgn0qa4m@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 01, 2022 at 04:39:35PM -0500, alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca wrote: > powerful synthetic opioid, as well as cocaine and methamphetamines. [...] > > There is this DEA report from 2020, which doesn't indicate a massive > increase nor the stats William quotes: Which sounds like fentanyl is displacing heroin or other opiate deaths, rather than just tacking onto them. From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 02:41:54 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 20:41:54 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Tell me about your masks, was: William may have been right after all In-Reply-To: <3kf1tg9bj7cc1tvnqurar4vf7v9c1arhqe@4ax.com> References: <808801566.2025750.1640412301825@mail.yahoo.com> <3kf1tg9bj7cc1tvnqurar4vf7v9c1arhqe@4ax.com> Message-ID: Sometimes the required administered Covid test doesn't work. About a week ago while in Mid flight to Iceland, a woman got a sore throat, she took a home antigen test which tested positive. She spent the rest of the flight in the bathroom then quarantined in a Red Cross shelter when she reached Iceland. On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 2:52 PM Marc Wilson wrote: > On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 02:51:59 -0600, Raymond Collins > wrote: > > >A friend gave me a BinaxNOW Covid19 antigen test, for Christmas day, > >tomorrow. They're planning to to vacation in in Iceland so I'm taking the > >self test before I leave for the Christmas celebration at their home. I'm > >pretty confident it'll turn up negative, but it's a weird feeling that I > >need to take a health test before I go. > >So far, subconsciously, I've managed to misplace the damn Covid test and > >the instruction sheet each. > >This Christmas has proven the most INTERESTING Christmas ever. > > Our daughter is flying back to France tomorrow, and we've had to get an > antigen test (administered by someone else; the home tests are too easy > to game) before she's allowed to fly. On arrival, she'll have to take > another after 2 days. And then reverse it all before coming home. > -- > Nature Is Better At Biology Than You Are - Aqua > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 02:49:47 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 20:49:47 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We pretty much lived outside of the USA during the most of the sixties. So figure late 1960's 67 or 68. With a black and white TV. We didn't get a color TV until 1970. On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 3:12 PM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > I saw the Mummers parade in person one time before we moved from PA. It > must have been in the ?50s. > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > ________________________________ > From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of > B. Ross Ashley > Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 12:48:00 PM > To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Parade > > On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:55:43 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.getmailspring.com%2Flink%2FB8A2AE55-22E5-4C03-B077-2C00E05C2C9D%40getmailspring.com%2F0%3Fredirect%3Dmailto%253Awawenri%2540msn.com%26recipient%3DbG9pcy1idWpvbGRAbGlzdHMuaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVr&data=04%7C01%7C%7C174c321dd5ab4cc6435908d9cd5fa5b4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637766632954055148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=IMhXMb%2FpolG13%2BL9aslzz%2FV%2F2q79wczf2y02cNuUnDU%3D&reserved=0)> > wrote: > > > Can anyone else remember watching the Rose Parade on a black and white > TV? > Well, yes! Also the Mummers' Parade from Philadelphia, which in recent > Before Times I could catch on the internet. This year's parade is ON! 9AM > Eastern Time, tomorrow, on PHL17.com ( > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.getmailspring.com%2Flink%2FB8A2AE55-22E5-4C03-B077-2C00E05C2C9D%40getmailspring.com%2F1%3Fredirect%3DPHL17.com%26recipient%3DbG9pcy1idWpvbGRAbGlzdHMuaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVr&data=04%7C01%7C%7C174c321dd5ab4cc6435908d9cd5fa5b4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637766632954055148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=eBjUeegSVr0onP0XEq0HGuM6y9E4Qag8%2BTK%2FpWL8NW8%3D&reserved=0) > . Would have been today but Philly got rain. Last year got COVIDed out, but > this year the Fancies, Wenches, and Comic Brigades etc. are back. > I watched the Mummers parade as a little kid in Connecticut when one of > the big networks broadcast it. Missed it when we moved to Florida in '55. > Discovered it on Youtube a few years ago, and have been watching ever since. > The String Bands have entirely too many saxophones for my taste these > days, but there is still nothing like massed banjos strutting down Broad > Street. And the Comic Brigades during the Trump presidency were deadly > funny! > -- > Ross in Toronto > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C174c321dd5ab4cc6435908d9cd5fa5b4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637766632954055148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Z9RZjyD7sT20t8Hzsni1x%2BFg0fKoXJWECY4hEbl7sKs%3D&reserved=0 > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 02:59:21 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 20:59:21 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking In-Reply-To: References: <6052A656-8772-4BE2-86E6-79862CF238BB@gmail.com> <545A05F9-F308-45F9-8065-79571445D8EF@comcast.net> <21521106-fbf9-850b-4d8a-855649955185@matija.com> Message-ID: One hard rule of parallel parking in San Francisco is to always to curb your wheels. I remember that question in the drivers written test which I took when I moved to California. I seem to recall it had 100 questions on it. On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 3:52 PM Marc Wilson wrote: > On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:20:21 -0700, Howard J Brazee > wrote: > > > > >I?ve noticed lots of scratched bumpers on cars in San Francisco. > > You should see how they park in Rome. > -- > George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's > killed all 140 characters. - David Gerrold > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 03:03:03 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:03:03 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: BBC Ghosts, was: Merry Christmas! To all and everyone! In-Reply-To: <4B3C1B22-6A49-407B-91B3-A26378EA5200@brazee.net> References: <2039877248.2132715.1640499463985@mail.yahoo.com> <1gi1tgpv07iaoblro9rgom12j4eisd992s@4ax.com> <4B3C1B22-6A49-407B-91B3-A26378EA5200@brazee.net> Message-ID: I saw the Foxtrot comic strip. I thought it was funny. Unfortunately they couldn't watch "Raging Bull" because it was R rated and the mother was in the house. On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 5:04 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 1, 2022, at 3:56 PM, Pat Mathews wrote: > > > > In one of the comic strips a week ago - I think it was Foxtrot -the > father and his two sons were watching a marathon of boxing-themed movies he > day after Christmas, while the mother and daughter were indulgently, a bit > irritatedly, putting up with it. Yes, as an American who reads, I got the > joke. > > https://foxtrot.com/2021/12/26/boxing-day/ < > https://foxtrot.com/2021/12/26/boxing-day/> > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 03:09:38 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:09:38 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Dr. Who. Message-ID: O.T. I have overdosed on Dr. Who! I keep hearing that damned TARDIS wheezing in my head. From loisaletafundis at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 03:57:03 2022 From: loisaletafundis at gmail.com (Lois Aleta Fundis) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 22:57:03 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heck yeah. We got our first TV for Christmas of 1950 -- I was about a month old! -- but I have no idea when they began broadcasting the parade.By the time I was old enough to remember such details, it was always there on New Year's Day. We did not have a color TV until 1967 (or was it '68?). On Saturday, January 1, 2022, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > Can anyone else remember watching the Rose Parade on a black and white TV? > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to loisaletafundis at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Lois Aleta Fundis loisaletafundis at gmail.com "No one you have ever been and no place you have ever gone ever leaves you. The new parts of you simply jump in the car and go along for the rest of the ride." -- Bruce Springsteen From baur at chello.at Sun Jan 2 07:52:52 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 08:52:52 +0100 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking In-Reply-To: References: <6052A656-8772-4BE2-86E6-79862CF238BB@gmail.com> <545A05F9-F308-45F9-8065-79571445D8EF@comcast.net> <21521106-fbf9-850b-4d8a-855649955185@matija.com> Message-ID: <78b8b70f-98c2-41b2-1508-6071044da2fa@chello.at> what does curb your wheels mean? servus markus Am 02.01.2022 um 03:59 schrieb Raymond Collins: > One hard rule of parallel parking in San Francisco is to always to curb > your wheels. I remember that question in the drivers written test which I > took when I moved to California. I seem to recall it had 100 questions on > it. > > On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 3:52 PM Marc Wilson wrote: > >> On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:20:21 -0700, Howard J Brazee >> wrote: >> >>> >>> I?ve noticed lots of scratched bumpers on cars in San Francisco. >> >> You should see how they park in Rome. >> -- >> George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's >> killed all 140 characters. - David Gerrold >> >> -- >> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com >> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk >> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold >> From lmb at matija.com Sun Jan 2 08:12:15 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 08:12:15 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking In-Reply-To: <78b8b70f-98c2-41b2-1508-6071044da2fa@chello.at> References: <6052A656-8772-4BE2-86E6-79862CF238BB@gmail.com> <545A05F9-F308-45F9-8065-79571445D8EF@comcast.net> <21521106-fbf9-850b-4d8a-855649955185@matija.com> <78b8b70f-98c2-41b2-1508-6071044da2fa@chello.at> Message-ID: I was wondering the same thing. I found this: Tips to Curb Your Wheels Safely and Legally * Whether you park your vehicle facing uphill or downhill, the rule of thumb is to turn your wheels so that the weight of the car will roll them towards the curb. If you?re not sure which way your car is sloped, set the car in neutral and see which way it rolls. * If you?re faced downhill, turn your front wheels towards the curb. * If you?re faced uphill, turn your front wheels away from the curb and let your vehicle roll back until it gently touches the curb. * If you park on a sloped driveway, turn your wheels so the vehicle will not roll into the street and, again, make sure to set your parking brake. (Origin: https://www.sfmta.com/blog/san-francisco-parking-tips-why-curbing-your-wheels-so-important) On 02/01/2022 07:52, Markus Baur via Lois-Bujold wrote: > what does curb your wheels mean? > > servus > > markus > > Am 02.01.2022 um 03:59 schrieb Raymond Collins: >> One hard rule of parallel parking in San Francisco is to always to curb >> your wheels. I remember that question in the drivers written test >> which I >> took when I moved to California. I seem to recall it had 100 >> questions on >> it. >> >> On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 3:52 PM Marc Wilson wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:20:21 -0700, Howard J Brazee >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I?ve noticed lots of scratched bumpers on cars in San Francisco. >>> >>> You should see how they park in Rome. >>> -- >>> George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's >>> killed all 140 characters.? - David Gerrold >>> >>> -- >>> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com >>> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk >>> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold >>> From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 08:39:09 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 02:39:09 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking In-Reply-To: References: <6052A656-8772-4BE2-86E6-79862CF238BB@gmail.com> <545A05F9-F308-45F9-8065-79571445D8EF@comcast.net> <21521106-fbf9-850b-4d8a-855649955185@matija.com> <78b8b70f-98c2-41b2-1508-6071044da2fa@chello.at> Message-ID: Yep. That's how you curb your wheels. On Sun, Jan 2, 2022, 2:12 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > I was wondering the same thing. I found this: > > Tips to Curb Your Wheels Safely and Legally > > * Whether you park your vehicle facing uphill or downhill, the rule of > thumb is to turn your wheels so that the weight of the car will roll > them towards the curb. If you?re not sure which way your car is > sloped, set the car in neutral and see which way it rolls. > * If you?re faced downhill, turn your front wheels towards the curb. > * If you?re faced uphill, turn your front wheels away from the curb > and let your vehicle roll back until it gently touches the curb. > * If you park on a sloped driveway, turn your wheels so the vehicle > will not roll into the street and, again, make sure to set your > parking brake. > > (Origin: > > https://www.sfmta.com/blog/san-francisco-parking-tips-why-curbing-your-wheels-so-important > ) > > On 02/01/2022 07:52, Markus Baur via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > what does curb your wheels mean? > > > > servus > > > > markus > > > > Am 02.01.2022 um 03:59 schrieb Raymond Collins: > >> One hard rule of parallel parking in San Francisco is to always to curb > >> your wheels. I remember that question in the drivers written test > >> which I > >> took when I moved to California. I seem to recall it had 100 > >> questions on > >> it. > >> > >> On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 3:52 PM Marc Wilson wrote: > >> > >>> On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:20:21 -0700, Howard J Brazee > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> I?ve noticed lots of scratched bumpers on cars in San Francisco. > >>> > >>> You should see how they park in Rome. > >>> -- > >>> George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's > >>> killed all 140 characters. - David Gerrold > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > >>> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > >>> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > >>> > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From moremoth at gmail.com Sun Jan 2 11:28:40 2022 From: moremoth at gmail.com (Bill Welch) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 11:28:40 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking In-Reply-To: References: <6052A656-8772-4BE2-86E6-79862CF238BB@gmail.com> <545A05F9-F308-45F9-8065-79571445D8EF@comcast.net> <21521106-fbf9-850b-4d8a-855649955185@matija.com> <78b8b70f-98c2-41b2-1508-6071044da2fa@chello.at> Message-ID: " * If you?re faced uphill, turn your front wheels away from the curb and let your vehicle roll back until it gently touches the curb." If you do this, your car will roll out into the road. On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 at 08:39, Raymond Collins wrote: > Yep. That's how you curb your wheels. > > On Sun, Jan 2, 2022, 2:12 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > I was wondering the same thing. I found this: > > > > Tips to Curb Your Wheels Safely and Legally > > > > * Whether you park your vehicle facing uphill or downhill, the rule of > > thumb is to turn your wheels so that the weight of the car will roll > > them towards the curb. If you?re not sure which way your car is > > sloped, set the car in neutral and see which way it rolls. > > * If you?re faced downhill, turn your front wheels towards the curb. > > * If you?re faced uphill, turn your front wheels away from the curb > > and let your vehicle roll back until it gently touches the curb. > > * If you park on a sloped driveway, turn your wheels so the vehicle > > will not roll into the street and, again, make sure to set your > > parking brake. > > > > (Origin: > > > > > https://www.sfmta.com/blog/san-francisco-parking-tips-why-curbing-your-wheels-so-important > > ) > > > > On 02/01/2022 07:52, Markus Baur via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > > what does curb your wheels mean? > > > > > > servus > > > > > > markus > > > > > > Am 02.01.2022 um 03:59 schrieb Raymond Collins: > > >> One hard rule of parallel parking in San Francisco is to always to > curb > > >> your wheels. I remember that question in the drivers written test > > >> which I > > >> took when I moved to California. I seem to recall it had 100 > > >> questions on > > >> it. > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 3:52 PM Marc Wilson > wrote: > > >> > > >>> On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:20:21 -0700, Howard J Brazee < > howard at brazee.net > > > > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> I?ve noticed lots of scratched bumpers on cars in San Francisco. > > >>> > > >>> You should see how they park in Rome. > > >>> -- > > >>> George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's > > >>> killed all 140 characters. - David Gerrold > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > >>> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > >>> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > >>> > > -- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to moremoth at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From wawenri at msn.com Sun Jan 2 15:25:07 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 15:25:07 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking In-Reply-To: References: <6052A656-8772-4BE2-86E6-79862CF238BB@gmail.com> <545A05F9-F308-45F9-8065-79571445D8EF@comcast.net> <21521106-fbf9-850b-4d8a-855649955185@matija.com> <78b8b70f-98c2-41b2-1508-6071044da2fa@chello.at> Message-ID: Only if there?s no curb or you are too far from the curb. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Bill Welch Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 4:28:40 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking " * If you?re faced uphill, turn your front wheels away from the curb and let your vehicle roll back until it gently touches the curb." If you do this, your car will roll out into the road. On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 at 08:39, Raymond Collins wrote: > Yep. That's how you curb your wheels. > > On Sun, Jan 2, 2022, 2:12 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > I was wondering the same thing. I found this: > > > > Tips to Curb Your Wheels Safely and Legally > > > > * Whether you park your vehicle facing uphill or downhill, the rule of > > thumb is to turn your wheels so that the weight of the car will roll > > them towards the curb. If you?re not sure which way your car is > > sloped, set the car in neutral and see which way it rolls. > > * If you?re faced downhill, turn your front wheels towards the curb. > > * If you?re faced uphill, turn your front wheels away from the curb > > and let your vehicle roll back until it gently touches the curb. > > * If you park on a sloped driveway, turn your wheels so the vehicle > > will not roll into the street and, again, make sure to set your > > parking brake. > > > > (Origin: > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sfmta.com%2Fblog%2Fsan-francisco-parking-tips-why-curbing-your-wheels-so-important&data=04%7C01%7C%7C44081c3e662243e45b6d08d9cde313d9%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637767197447131916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Y%2BrcFj%2FDTN77QBjMZ9gF0010eiDKIvaDIiQ5Jq1CTGA%3D&reserved=0 > > ) > > > > On 02/01/2022 07:52, Markus Baur via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > > what does curb your wheels mean? > > > > > > servus > > > > > > markus > > > > > > Am 02.01.2022 um 03:59 schrieb Raymond Collins: > > >> One hard rule of parallel parking in San Francisco is to always to > curb > > >> your wheels. I remember that question in the drivers written test > > >> which I > > >> took when I moved to California. I seem to recall it had 100 > > >> questions on > > >> it. > > >> > > >> On Sat, Jan 1, 2022, 3:52 PM Marc Wilson > wrote: > > >> > > >>> On Sat, 25 Dec 2021 07:20:21 -0700, Howard J Brazee < > howard at brazee.net > > > > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> I?ve noticed lots of scratched bumpers on cars in San Francisco. > > >>> > > >>> You should see how they park in Rome. > > >>> -- > > >>> George R.R. Martin is no longer on Twitter because he's > > >>> killed all 140 characters. - David Gerrold > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > >>> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > >>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C44081c3e662243e45b6d08d9cde313d9%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637767197447131916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B%2FiygcEUOzq7J%2Fv4P0FltinuI2VcDImrqZ%2FjF77cYCk%3D&reserved=0 > > >>> > > -- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C44081c3e662243e45b6d08d9cde313d9%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637767197447131916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B%2FiygcEUOzq7J%2Fv4P0FltinuI2VcDImrqZ%2FjF77cYCk%3D&reserved=0 > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to moremoth at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C44081c3e662243e45b6d08d9cde313d9%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637767197447131916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B%2FiygcEUOzq7J%2Fv4P0FltinuI2VcDImrqZ%2FjF77cYCk%3D&reserved=0 > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C44081c3e662243e45b6d08d9cde313d9%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637767197447131916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2B%2FiygcEUOzq7J%2Fv4P0FltinuI2VcDImrqZ%2FjF77cYCk%3D&reserved=0 From kcollett at hamilton.edu Sun Jan 2 16:16:30 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Katherine Collett) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 11:16:30 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> Message-ID: On Jan 1, 2022, at 1:02 PM, Fred wrote: > > my parents got our first TV in 1952. I remember watching Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color in black and white. That would have been on my grandmother's first television, in about 1957 after she moved in with us. She had the only television in the house for years and years -- until after I went to college. She was always generous about letting us watch it, but it was in her sitting room and belonged to her. Katherine From kcollett at hamilton.edu Sun Jan 2 16:23:40 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Katherine Collett) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 11:23:40 -0500 Subject: [LMB] personal news In-Reply-To: References: <48d71d88-02ec-0d7a-6cc4-019804c4f947@mindspring.com> <57E65A08-EBC7-45B0-B171-35A960DD17CC@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: On Jan 1, 2022, at 4:12 PM, alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca wrote: > > What a lovely story, Kathy - a true meeting of minds! May you have many more good years together. Thank you! We hope to! > My SO is 9 months younger than me, and we've been together more than 35 years. Not sure how the time went so fast... It seems like there are more women older than their husbands than popular culture would have it. My grandmother, for years and years, wouldn't say how old she was, we think because she was a couple of years older than her husband (who died in the 1930s, so not like it was a current issue. And anyway, we knew she was born in 1885.). But by the time she was approaching 90, she realized that her age was something to be proud of, and didn't hide it any more. She lived to be 94. Katherine From howard at brazee.net Sun Jan 2 16:42:40 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 09:42:40 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> Message-ID: > On Jan 2, 2022, at 9:16 AM, Katherine Collett wrote: > >> my parents got our first TV in 1952. > > I remember watching Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color in black and white. That would have been on my grandmother's first television, in about 1957 after she moved in with us. She had the only television in the house for years and years -- until after I went to college. She was always generous about letting us watch it, but it was in her sitting room and belonged to her. The TV show ?Disneyland? started in 1954 on ABC. It moved to NBC to take advantage of its color technology and was renamed to "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color? from 1961 to 1969, when it was renamed to "The Wonderful World of Disney?. From kcollett at hamilton.edu Sun Jan 2 17:30:19 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Kathy Collett) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 12:30:19 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> Message-ID: <7041FF09-4659-4CE0-B28D-28F9F37A7874@hamilton.edu> On Jan 2, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: > > The TV show ?Disneyland? started in 1954 on ABC. > > It moved to NBC to take advantage of its color technology and was renamed to "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color? from 1961 to 1969, when it was renamed to "The Wonderful World of Disney?. Ah, right, it would have been Disneyland when I first watched it. I dimly remember the name changes. I don?t know when my grandmother first got a color tv, but I remember the NBC peacock?s tail unfurling in black and white. Katherine From listmail at gordonj.net Sun Jan 2 21:12:58 2022 From: listmail at gordonj.net (Gordon Jackson) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 21:12:58 -0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: <7041FF09-4659-4CE0-B28D-28F9F37A7874@hamilton.edu> References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> <7041FF09-4659-4CE0-B28D-28F9F37A7874@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: <034f01d8001d$869171c0$93b45540$@gordonj.net> Television came to the bit of rural NZ where I grew up, in the mid 60s when I was around 10. One (1!) black and white channel for 28 hours a week. For various reasons I haven't watched much TV at all for most of my life so now that I am approaching retirement and in need of a bit of entertainment I appreciate the 400 odd channels available plus the practically infinite amount of stuff to stream. Not to mention now having a decent screen and sound system. Sometimes, things work out. Cheers Gordon -----Original Message----- From: Lois-Bujold On Behalf Of Kathy Collett Sent: 02 January 2022 17:30 To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Parade On Jan 2, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: > > The TV show ?Disneyland? started in 1954 on ABC. > > It moved to NBC to take advantage of its color technology and was renamed to "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color? from 1961 to 1969, when it was renamed to "The Wonderful World of Disney?. Ah, right, it would have been Disneyland when I first watched it. I dimly remember the name changes. I don?t know when my grandmother first got a color tv, but I remember the NBC peacock?s tail unfurling in black and white. Katherine -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to listmail at gordonj.net Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From wawenri at msn.com Sun Jan 2 21:20:56 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 21:20:56 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature Message-ID: Last night it got down to 11F (-7C). It was the coldest night of the year. Of course, in Albuquerque, it might be the coldest myoglobin the whole year. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From wawenri at msn.com Sun Jan 2 21:25:38 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 21:25:38 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Of that should have been ?night of?, blared autocorrupt. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of WILLIAM A WENRICH Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 2:20:56 PM To: Dendarri List Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature Last night it got down to 11F (-7C). It was the coldest night of the year. Of course, in Albuquerque, it might be the coldest myoglobin the whole year. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf43f411519f8481a17ce08d9ce35cb38%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637767552702810739%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=R%2FiOyjordFtomDQOgsAL0haeJZ2ytLrhu%2FcBRYUlleQ%3D&reserved=0 From sdean at sdean.net Sun Jan 2 21:28:29 2022 From: sdean at sdean.net (Stewart Dean) Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2022 21:28:29 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <205c3295-f8e7-43ca-28f6-dfeaedd301f4@sdean.net> But, being the first day of the year, it was also the warmest day of the year. On 1/2/2022 4:20 PM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > It was the coldest night of the year. -- "Wherein you have censured others, and established yourselves "upon the Word of God." Is it therefore infallibly agreeable to the Word of God, all that you say? I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken. " Oliver Cromwell in a letter to the Synod of the Church of Scotland, http://www.cyberussr.com/hcunn/q-cromwell-beseech.html ...having mounted the tiger of religous zealotry, he had to sup with a Devil's legion of zealots, who found his zealotry insufficient. Stewart Dean sdean @ sdean.net, Kingston, NY From proto at panix.com Sun Jan 2 23:09:38 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 18:09:38 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> Message-ID: <8F34FF2C-5C52-4852-A4B8-7AEAF44FF1DD@panix.com> > On Jan 2, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: > > It moved to NBC to take advantage of its color technology and was renamed to "Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color? from 1961 to 1969, when it was renamed to "The Wonderful World of Disney?. Probably NBC made better financial arrangements with Disney as perhaps a loss leader. BBC oer the color TV manufactures. The BBC subsidized Sir Kenneth Clark?s 13 episode ?Civilization? series to get people to go to color TV. ? "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." - Attributed to Plato From saffronrose at me.com Mon Jan 3 00:55:40 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 16:55:40 -0800 Subject: [LMB] personal news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA0D2D1-034C-42DA-B230-5A04FB98EDA3@me.com> On Jan 2, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Katherine Collett wrote: > It seems like there are more women older than their husbands than popular culture would have it. I blame wars removing a large pool of men one?s age or slightly older (5-10 yrs), and men in general seemingly preferring women their own age or somewhat younger. Somewhere in my late 20s-early 30s, that preference became less pervasive, at least in the US. I dated two younger software engineers before dating & marrying Kurt. I also had too many instances of the guy I dated marrying the next woman he took up with. Depressing, except with my fianc?. I was at an SCA event in his barony, when a woman I?d never met, asked me about him. I said he?d recently become unengaged. A speculative look came over her and she took off towards him. I believe they married, which meant I didn?t have him dragging after me. However, the first of those two, with whom I remained friends (we just weren?t suited as lovers), later hooked up with a marvelous woman (who was initially worried I might still be interested in him), and we two couples got engaged at either end of the same weekend, buying our engagement rings at 1988 LosCon. They had a larger wedding, with Kurt as the best man, later the next year. They had two kids, are still married, and are Goodreads members. The next one, some years later, got involved in either or both English Country Dance or Contradance, found a fellow dancer (damn him for overlooking THIS dancer, starved for partners!), and married her. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From saffronrose at me.com Mon Jan 3 01:03:31 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 17:03:31 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <206C4FD1-A14C-408E-94A1-470ABD6C3C68@me.com> On Jan 2, 2022, at 1:21 PM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > ?Last night it got down to 11F (-7C). It was the coldest night of the year. > > Of course, in Albuquerque, it might be the coldest myoglobin the whole year. What an interesting autocorrect! Speaking of myoglobin, I donated a pint of A+ on the 30th. San Jos? is racking up more chill hours than the last two years, so many apples and most stone fruit ought to be better this year. We are grateful for better rainfall than expected, with adequate time between storms to prevent too much runoff or major flooding. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From kate.soley.barton at btinternet.com Mon Jan 3 01:25:33 2022 From: kate.soley.barton at btinternet.com (kate.soley.barton) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2022 01:25:33 +0000 Subject: [LMB] personal news; anniversaries Message-ID: <613A8CC30F38D2AF@re-prd-rgout-001.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net> (added by postmaster@btinternet.com) My mother was always embarrassed by being 14 years older than my father. She nearly dumped him because of this, but was argued out of it by a friend, at their engagement party. This was the mid-50s.She then took 10 years off her age until her mid 60s, so that she was only 4 years older. After that, she stopped worrying about it. She aged well and was proud of it.Kate?Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2 From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 01:52:10 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 19:52:10 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <206C4FD1-A14C-408E-94A1-470ABD6C3C68@me.com> References: <206C4FD1-A14C-408E-94A1-470ABD6C3C68@me.com> Message-ID: Last night we got down to 2 Fahrenheit. But my thermometer said -3. On Sun, Jan 2, 2022, 7:03 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On Jan 2, 2022, at 1:21 PM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > > > ?Last night it got down to 11F (-7C). It was the coldest night of the > year. > > > > Of course, in Albuquerque, it might be the coldest myoglobin the whole > year. > > What an interesting autocorrect! > > Speaking of myoglobin, I donated a pint of A+ on the 30th. > > San Jos? is racking up more chill hours than the last two years, so many > apples and most stone fruit ought to be better this year. > > We are grateful for better rainfall than expected, with adequate time > between storms to prevent too much runoff or major flooding. > > A. Marina Fournier > saffronrose at me.com > Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e > Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA > Sent from iFionnghuala > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From maireg83 at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 02:16:17 2022 From: maireg83 at gmail.com (Sue Nicholson) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 15:16:17 +1300 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parade In-Reply-To: <034f01d8001d$869171c0$93b45540$@gordonj.net> References: <520D8CFE-9F71-4D87-806D-6C6B1318D645@brazee.net> <7041FF09-4659-4CE0-B28D-28F9F37A7874@hamilton.edu> <034f01d8001d$869171c0$93b45540$@gordonj.net> Message-ID: In Rural NZ, it was usually the school teacher who got the first TV. We got our first one in 1969, 'cause my Dad thought we should see history being made. SueN On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 10:13, Gordon Jackson wrote: > Television came to the bit of rural NZ where I grew up, in the mid 60s > when I was around 10. One (1!) black and white channel for 28 hours a week. > From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 14:59:05 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 09:59:05 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <206C4FD1-A14C-408E-94A1-470ABD6C3C68@me.com> References: <206C4FD1-A14C-408E-94A1-470ABD6C3C68@me.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 8:03 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On Jan 2, 2022, at 1:21 PM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > > > ?Last night it got down to 11F (-7C). It was the coldest night of the > year. > > > > Of course, in Albuquerque, it might be the coldest myoglobin the whole > year. > > What an interesting autocorrect! > > Speaking of myoglobin, I donated a pint of A+ on the 30th. > I donated blood recently, the bruise in my elbow has turned yellow and started to fade. A bunch of random strangers saved my life when I nearly died in childbed, and I feel I ought to pay it forward. I donate at the same hospital, maybe I will help a relative of someone who helped me. The earliest I can donate again is Feb 16 - not exactly the hearts for the holiday :) Sylvia From kawyle at att.net Mon Jan 3 15:11:36 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 15:11:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: giving blood (was Temperature) References: <860779140.833208.1641222696542.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <860779140.833208.1641222696542@mail.yahoo.com> The last time I tried to give blood was in October 2001. I say "tried" because the technician informed me that my veins were too small -- roughly the size of the needle . . . . That was the first I heard of veins shrinking with age. I've often had trouble with medical blood draws (except when I was pregnant), so I was probably borderline to start with. Karen A. Wyle On Monday, January 3, 2022, 09:59:29 AM EST, Sylvia McIvers wrote: I donated blood recently, the bruise in my elbow has turned yellow and started to fade. A bunch of random strangers saved my life when I nearly died in childbed, and I feel I ought to pay it forward. I donate at the same hospital, maybe I will help a relative of someone who helped me. The earliest I can donate again is Feb 16 - not exactly the hearts for the holiday :) Sylvia -- From sdean at sdean.net Mon Jan 3 15:41:45 2022 From: sdean at sdean.net (Stewart Dean) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2022 15:41:45 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. Message-ID: > ?Events may be horrible or inescapable. Men have always a choice - if not whether, then how, they may endure.? When I was a year old in the summer of '48, my mother was almost totally paralyzed. We had been coming back from a weekend in the Poconos when she had pain in her back and within a day, she was immured in an iron lung fighting for her life. What has always spoken most strongly to me in Bujold's work is her understanding of courage, of going on. I grew up taking care of my mother and the daily witness of his courage. Not the testoronic courage of Schwarzenegger, Stallone, the swaggering bravado of men who know themselves to be the meanest %^^$#@ in the Valley of the Shadow, no....but the holding-on-by-the-fingernail tenacity of the weak, the powerless, the disabled (ah, but we are all disabled, sooner or later, for moments or seeming eternity). Here is a letter she 'wrote' from Warm Springs where she struggled to find what was left to her. http://www.sdean.net/MollyWarmSpringsTypewriter%20%28Medium%29.JPG More here: http://www.sdean.net/molpolio.html ...and here: http://www.sdean.net/myfamily.html#GoneBefore She was the towering flaming torch of courage, of spirit, of love of my early life. In a society, economy and culture, so slavishly devoted to winning (read [LeGuin's commencement address at Mills College](https://www.ursulakleguin.com/lefthand-mills-college)), we miss the gifts of the less flashy, quieter, deeper people all around us: paladins. "When the souls rise up in glory, yours shall not be shunned nor sundered, but shall be the prize of the gods' gardens. Even your darkness shall be treasured then, and all your pain made holy." Thank you Lois. -- -- //Stewart Dean sdean @ sdean.net, Kingston, NY From cjbotteron at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 15:47:25 2022 From: cjbotteron at gmail.com (Carol Botteron) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 10:47:25 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) Message-ID: According to this article https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/protect-your-library-the-medieval-way-with-horrifying-book-curses and the book it cites, some medieval scribes (who created books by hand) wrote curses in their books, threatening book thieves with death, or worse. When Penric was a student, the books he used were handmade. I don't recall curses in those books. Were there any? Can anyone suggest appropriate curses to protect your favorite books? From kawyle at att.net Mon Jan 3 15:49:31 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 15:49:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1800436397.847278.1641224971544@mail.yahoo.com> "Dare to tear a page, and doubt not the guardians of this book will tear you in turn." Karen A. Wyle On Monday, January 3, 2022, 10:48:04 AM EST, Carol Botteron wrote: According to this article https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/protect-your-library-the-medieval-way-with-horrifying-book-curses and the book it cites, some medieval scribes (who created books by hand) wrote curses in their books, threatening book thieves with death, or worse. When Penric was a student, the books he used were handmade.? I don't recall curses in those books.? Were there any?? Can anyone suggest appropriate curses to protect your favorite books? From kawyle at att.net Mon Jan 3 15:58:40 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 15:58:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <882988843.848050.1641225520147@mail.yahoo.com> What an amazing family, and what beautiful tributes to them. Thank you. Karen A. Wyle On Monday, January 3, 2022, 10:42:07 AM EST, Stewart Dean wrote: > ?Events may be horrible or inescapable. Men have always a choice - if not whether, then how, they may endure.? When I was a year old in the summer of '48, my mother was almost totally paralyzed. We had been coming back from a weekend in the Poconos when she had pain in her back and within a day, she was immured in an iron lung fighting for her life. What has always spoken most strongly to me in Bujold's work is her understanding of courage, of going on. I grew up taking care of my mother and the daily witness of his courage. Not the testoronic courage of Schwarzenegger, Stallone, the swaggering bravado of men who know themselves to be the meanest %^^$#@ in the Valley of the Shadow, no....but the holding-on-by-the-fingernail tenacity of the weak, the powerless, the disabled (ah, but we are all disabled, sooner or later, for moments or seeming eternity). Here is a letter she 'wrote' from Warm Springs where she struggled to find what was left to her. http://www.sdean.net/MollyWarmSpringsTypewriter%20%28Medium%29.JPG More here: http://www.sdean.net/molpolio.html ...and here: http://www.sdean.net/myfamily.html#GoneBefore She was the towering flaming torch of courage, of spirit, of love of my early life. In a society, economy and culture, so slavishly devoted to winning (read [LeGuin's commencement address at Mills College](https://www.ursulakleguin.com/lefthand-mills-college)), we miss the gifts of the less flashy, quieter, deeper people all around us: paladins. "When the souls rise up in glory, yours shall not be shunned nor sundered, but shall be the prize of the gods' gardens. Even your darkness shall be treasured then, and all your pain made holy." Thank you Lois. -- -- //Stewart Dean sdean @ sdean.net, Kingston, NY -- From mathews55 at msn.com Mon Jan 3 16:45:33 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 16:45:33 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: <882988843.848050.1641225520147@mail.yahoo.com> References: <882988843.848050.1641225520147@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, and blessing on them all. That badly needed to be said. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Karen A. Wyle Sent: Monday, January 3, 2022 8:58 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Courage is going on. What an amazing family, and what beautiful tributes to them. Thank you. Karen A. Wyle On Monday, January 3, 2022, 10:42:07 AM EST, Stewart Dean wrote: > ?Events may be horrible or inescapable. Men have always a choice - if not whether, then how, they may endure.? When I was a year old in the summer of '48, my mother was almost totally paralyzed. We had been coming back from a weekend in the Poconos when she had pain in her back and within a day, she was immured in an iron lung fighting for her life. What has always spoken most strongly to me in Bujold's work is her understanding of courage, of going on. I grew up taking care of my mother and the daily witness of his courage. Not the testoronic courage of Schwarzenegger, Stallone, the swaggering bravado of men who know themselves to be the meanest %^^$#@ in the Valley of the Shadow, no....but the holding-on-by-the-fingernail tenacity of the weak, the powerless, the disabled (ah, but we are all disabled, sooner or later, for moments or seeming eternity). Here is a letter she 'wrote' from Warm Springs where she struggled to find what was left to her. http://www.sdean.net/MollyWarmSpringsTypewriter%20%28Medium%29.JPG More here: http://www.sdean.net/molpolio.html ...and here: http://www.sdean.net/myfamily.html#GoneBefore She was the towering flaming torch of courage, of spirit, of love of my early life. In a society, economy and culture, so slavishly devoted to winning (read [LeGuin's commencement address at Mills College](https://www.ursulakleguin.com/lefthand-mills-college)), we miss the gifts of the less flashy, quieter, deeper people all around us: paladins. "When the souls rise up in glory, yours shall not be shunned nor sundered, but shall be the prize of the gods' gardens. Even your darkness shall be treasured then, and all your pain made holy." Thank you Lois. -- -- //Stewart Dean sdean @ sdean.net, Kingston, NY -- -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From saffronrose at me.com Mon Jan 3 17:06:24 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 09:06:24 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> On Jan 3, 2022, at 6:59 AM, Sylvia McIvers wrote: > > ?On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 8:03 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > >> Speaking of myoglobin, I donated a pint of A+ on the 30th. > > I donated blood recently, the bruise in my elbow has turned yellow and > started to fade. > > A bunch of random strangers saved my life when I nearly died in childbed, > and I feel I ought to pay it forward. I donate at the same hospital, maybe > I will help a relative of someone who helped me. I donate because dunnamany strangers provided enough blood to transfuse my sister and me, 23 mos apart, in different countries, at birth and for periodic transfusions in our first months, until we got to 5 lbs. Our mother was 4?9?, only over 85 lbs when in her 2nd & 3rd trimesters of pregnancy. Parents were Rh-incompatible. I?m paying it forward, too. I aged out of the bone marrow donor program. I?m donating what organs can be harvested when I die. Used to be my left arm was the only place to find a vein. It?s sunk too far in, and a needle hitting a nerve instead is no fun. My right arm, now that I?m better hydrated, is where I give. Let?s hear it for generous random strangers! A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 3 17:08:15 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 17:08:15 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Kerfluffle Message-ID: I received two bills from a local hospital on 12/30. They totaled $390 for the COVID-19 test I had after Brian was infected. (BTW: He?s fine now.) I couldn?t get through to my insurance company until this morning and they had no record of the bills. I contacted the hospital and after an hour and a half they found that my address was entered in the place of my insurance company?s. At first I thought, ?This was probably all automated since computers don?t think about what they are doing.? Then I remembered something that happened almost fifty years ago (I may have told this story before, bare with me.). After the Air Force, I worked for Singer Business Machines as an electronics technician. One of the jobs I had was testing and repairing printed circuit boards for a printing calculator. The board had three power transistors that required heat sinks. Only one of the heat sinks connected to a transistor at ground level. The boards would test fine until they were installed in their cases, afterwards however, the boards would literally burn up. It seems that the people assembling the boards would sometimes put a star washer on top of the mica washer on the heat sinks that weren?t at ground. We wanted to tell the assembly people that ?a mica washer is an insulator and a star washer is a conductor and you never put them together.? The bosses wouldn?t let us because the assemblers were not supposed to know anything except how to put parts in the holes. I wouldn?t be surprised if that attitude had something to do with why the business failed. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From lmb at matija.com Mon Jan 3 17:45:36 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 17:45:36 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 03/01/2022 15:41, Stewart Dean wrote: >> ?Events may be horrible or inescapable. Men have always a choice - if not whether, then how, they may endure.? > When I was a year old in the summer of '48, my mother was almost totally paralyzed. We had been coming back from a weekend in the Poconos when she had pain in her back and within a day, she was immured in an iron lung fighting for her life. Everything I've read about polio makes me think it was a terrible, terrible disease. (Aside: I read someone pointing out that the most people who had polio experienced it as a stomach disorder, and that what we remember today as Polio could be called "long Polio", a rarer, but much more severe manifestation - their point was that we have not yet realized the full consequences of long Covid). Wasn't warm springs the place where FDR went to recover with his bout of Polio? You mother has my greatest respect. From hammersd62 at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 18:00:13 2022 From: hammersd62 at gmail.com (Stephanie Hammer) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 13:00:13 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Courage to Go On Message-ID: What an awesome read. I may never be the same after going down this rabbit hole. Thank you so much for sharing this wonderful story. From tlambs1138 at charter.net Mon Jan 3 18:01:08 2022 From: tlambs1138 at charter.net (Jean Lamb) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 10:01:08 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Birthday Tixie glances at list, goes oops! Message-ID: <031b01d800cb$e3396460$a9ac2d20$@charter.net> First all, happy birthday to both Sylvia McIvers (now age 47) and Victoria L'Ecuyer. Due to the Birthday Tixie's forgetfulness, your berth on a galaxy-class cruise ship has been upgraded to VIP Plus and you'll be dining at the captain's table for two extra days. Why? Because your birthday treat is a month on a Nexus cruise ship (with return to the same day you left, aren't wormholes fun?) with swim-up bar and a rather hefty voucher for both the ship's duty free stores and for shopping at various stops on Eta Prime, Escobar, and Komarr (all items from Eta Prime must be thoroughly inspected because you never know quite what you're going to get; besides, the bio people on board like to play with them first). Enjoy! This is also Pat Mathews' 83rd birthday! Your treat for today is a stop at the Durona's for a tour (float chair included if you like, which has a bar built into the left hand arm, the controls are on the right), and a spot of whatever therapy seems good for you (you're a special guest of Mark and Kareen and have lunch with them later on). The Duronas are very happy to see you, since they're working on a new, improved joint therapy and they'd like to try it out on you. Lunch is also great, since Mark and Kareen get shipments of Ma Kosti's best work flash-frozen for transport. You are encouraged to take a nap in the afternoon since the Duronas want to work on your sleep quality and need to observe it anyway. You go home feeling much better than you have in quite some time. Happy Birthday to all! Jean Lamb tlambs1138 at charter.net https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 From lmb at matija.com Mon Jan 3 18:06:35 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 18:06:35 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Kerfluffle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <81c81911-ffe0-dc7f-a909-6ffc3e60b3ef@matija.com> On 03/01/2022 17:08, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > The bosses wouldn?t let us because the assemblers were not supposed to know anything except how to put parts in the holes. > I wouldn?t be surprised if that attitude had something to do with why the business failed. I think it highly likely. Any business where a manager can utter "we do not pay you to think" without said manager being summarily fired is, IMHO, headed down the drain. People who want to think are rare enough, they should be encouraged, even (or especially) when they point out something their supposed superiors did not think of. I remember when I was working for a video streaming company, and a subordinate told me that when he tested a specific network link, exactly one in every four tests under-performed. And if he configured the benchmarking tool to start four streams at once, it would always have a problem with exactly one stream (or two of eight, three of twelve, etc). He had only been told to test the throughput on that link and report it to us me and the CTO so we could follow up with the provider if it wasn't up to spec. "Impossible!" I said, but I still had him show me. Not only was he right, but that was the crucial hint that eventually let us resolve the problems with that network link. From sdean at sdean.net Mon Jan 3 18:24:57 2022 From: sdean at sdean.net (Stewart Dean) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2022 18:24:57 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c459d41-f50d-1bb0-b705-39867293dc05@sdean.net> `Yes.? I founded its use for polio recovery after he did so there...and managed to hide the affliction from most everyone. thereafter. I've replied to people that P&M about the Americans with Disabilities Act that it was a man in a wheelchair that (arguably) led America out of the Great Depression and to triumph in WWII. And when he died, America lined the railroad tracks from Warm Springs to Washington to honor him and express their grief. On 1/3/2022 12:45 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > Wasn't warm springs the place where FDR went to recover with his bout of > Polio? -- -- //Stewart Dean sdean @ sdean.net, 845 - 336 - 4815, Kingston, NY From sdean at sdean.net Mon Jan 3 18:31:41 2022 From: sdean at sdean.net (Stewart Dean) Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2022 18:31:41 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Kerfluffle In-Reply-To: <81c81911-ffe0-dc7f-a909-6ffc3e60b3ef@matija.com> References: <81c81911-ffe0-dc7f-a909-6ffc3e60b3ef@matija.com> Message-ID: Well, that was why Old Man Watson who led IBM had that THINK sign. https://infostory.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/ibm_watson-think.jpg Although nowadays, I wonder if there isn't too much thinking and intellectualization and too little action. Viz Yeats's Second Coming, > The best lack all conviction, while the worst > Are full of passionate intensity. On 1/3/2022 1:06 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > On 03/01/2022 17:08, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > >> The bosses wouldn?t let us because the assemblers were not supposed to know anything except how to put parts in the holes. >> I wouldn?t be surprised if that attitude had something to do with why the business failed. > > I think it highly likely. Any business where a manager can utter "we do > not pay you to think" without said manager being summarily fired is, > IMHO, headed down the drain. > > People who want to think are rare enough, they should be encouraged, > even (or especially) when they point out something their supposed > superiors did not think of. > > I remember when I was working for a video streaming company, and a > subordinate told me that when he tested a specific network link, exactly > one in every four tests under-performed. And if he configured the > benchmarking tool to start four streams at once, it would always have a > problem with exactly one stream (or two of eight, three of twelve, etc). > > He had only been told to test the throughput on that link and report it > to us me and the CTO so we could follow up with the provider if it > wasn't up to spec. > > "Impossible!" I said, but I still had him show me. Not only was he > right, but that was the crucial hint that eventually let us resolve the > problems with that network link. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to > sdean at sdean.net > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand. - W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming // Stewart Dean == Kingston, NY From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 3 19:07:15 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 19:07:15 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: giving blood (was Temperature) In-Reply-To: <860779140.833208.1641222696542@mail.yahoo.com> References: <860779140.833208.1641222696542.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <860779140.833208.1641222696542@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I haven?t been allowed to donate blood since I had a false positive HIV test about 40 years ago. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Karen A. Wyle Sent: Monday, January 3, 2022 8:11:36 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: giving blood (was Temperature) The last time I tried to give blood was in October 2001. I say "tried" because the technician informed me that my veins were too small -- roughly the size of the needle . . . . That was the first I heard of veins shrinking with age. I've often had trouble with medical blood draws (except when I was pregnant), so I was probably borderline to start with. Karen A. Wyle On Monday, January 3, 2022, 09:59:29 AM EST, Sylvia McIvers wrote: I donated blood recently, the bruise in my elbow has turned yellow and started to fade. A bunch of random strangers saved my life when I nearly died in childbed, and I feel I ought to pay it forward. I donate at the same hospital, maybe I will help a relative of someone who helped me. The earliest I can donate again is Feb 16 - not exactly the hearts for the holiday :) Sylvia -- -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C27d0f0dfcf82490e48e808d9cecb5ff8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637768195150514404%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=8qgxUy5BdrSHNWeGRJoD1vCPM26BUE9wjE0XZyfKCC4%3D&reserved=0 From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 02:39:36 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 20:39:36 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: <1800436397.847278.1641224971544@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1800436397.847278.1641224971544@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "May you die a death of a thousand paper cuts if you damage or steal this book." "May the Librarian of the Unseen University rip your arms out the their sockets if you burn this book!" On Mon, Jan 3, 2022, 9:49 AM Karen A. Wyle wrote: > "Dare to tear a page, and doubt not the guardians of this book will tear > you in turn." > Karen A. Wyle > On Monday, January 3, 2022, 10:48:04 AM EST, Carol Botteron < > cjbotteron at gmail.com> wrote: > > According to this article > > https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/protect-your-library-the-medieval-way-with-horrifying-book-curses > > and the book it cites, some medieval scribes (who created books by hand) > wrote curses in their books, threatening book thieves with death, or worse. > > > When Penric was a student, the books he used were handmade. I don't recall > curses in those books. Were there any? Can anyone suggest appropriate > curses to protect your favorite books? > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From saffronrose at me.com Tue Jan 4 04:40:34 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 20:40:34 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <486D7A94-E87E-4600-8793-AE28F9CC26EA@me.com> On Jan 3, 2022, at 7:42 AM, Stewart Dean wrote: > > ? >> >> ?Events may be horrible or inescapable. Men have always a choice - if not whether, then how, they may endure.? > > When I was a year old in the summer of '48, my mother was almost totally paralyzed. We had been coming back from a weekend in the Poconos when she had pain in her back and within a day, she was immured in an iron lung fighting for her life. My belle-m?re, currently in dementia (I owe at least two of you a response?haven?t forgotten) had polio at 14. She was very active, thus didn?t lose too much muscle tone, and recovered a little better and quicker than others. Her breathing was not affected, a blessing. https://www.npr.org/2021/10/25/1047691984/decades-after-polio-martha-is-among-the-last-to-still-rely-on-an-iron-lung-to-br If only someone with a 3D printer could help with replacement parts! Post-polio syndrome is not well-studied. Between rheumatoid arthritis and PPS, her mobility has steadily declined in the past 15 years. Steps are not her friend?getting onto the scale at the dr ofc today bothered her. Luckily, they have scales for disabled folk. I will now read the sites in your post?I wanted to get this off while my memory persisted. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From wawenri at msn.com Tue Jan 4 05:18:04 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 05:18:04 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: <486D7A94-E87E-4600-8793-AE28F9CC26EA@me.com> References: <486D7A94-E87E-4600-8793-AE28F9CC26EA@me.com> Message-ID: We lost a friend to second stage polio about 20 years ago. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold Sent: Monday, January 3, 2022 9:40:34 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Cc: A. Marina Fournier Subject: Re: [LMB] Courage is going on. On Jan 3, 2022, at 7:42 AM, Stewart Dean wrote: > > ? >> >> ?Events may be horrible or inescapable. Men have always a choice - if not whether, then how, they may endure.? > > When I was a year old in the summer of '48, my mother was almost totally paralyzed. We had been coming back from a weekend in the Poconos when she had pain in her back and within a day, she was immured in an iron lung fighting for her life. My belle-m?re, currently in dementia (I owe at least two of you a response?haven?t forgotten) had polio at 14. She was very active, thus didn?t lose too much muscle tone, and recovered a little better and quicker than others. Her breathing was not affected, a blessing. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2F2021%2F10%2F25%2F1047691984%2Fdecades-after-polio-martha-is-among-the-last-to-still-rely-on-an-iron-lung-to-br&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cbddd09719b6a44de0f2108d9cf3c61d8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637768680517186944%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=e74hPgHau60r1hCn9jhgpsoTEVk0epPXKKvv2lCRtF0%3D&reserved=0 If only someone with a 3D printer could help with replacement parts! Post-polio syndrome is not well-studied. Between rheumatoid arthritis and PPS, her mobility has steadily declined in the past 15 years. Steps are not her friend?getting onto the scale at the dr ofc today bothered her. Luckily, they have scales for disabled folk. I will now read the sites in your post?I wanted to get this off while my memory persisted. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cbddd09719b6a44de0f2108d9cf3c61d8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637768680517186944%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=UqA9TN1pZDmvatjq80%2BAPE54M%2BQdWKx0TexNVzHrYJ4%3D&reserved=0 From saffronrose at me.com Tue Jan 4 06:07:55 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 22:07:55 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6AC3CB90-D525-4C41-863C-377DBD49B014@me.com> On Jan 3, 2022, at 7:42 AM, Stewart Dean wrote: > > ? >> >> ?Events may be horrible or inescapable. Men have always a choice - if not whether, then how, they may endure.? > > When I was a year old in the summer of '48, my mother was almost totally paralyzed. We had been coming back from a weekend in the Poconos when she had pain in her back and within a day, she was immured in an iron lung fighting for her life. Wow, Stewart. What n amazing family, of birth and of choice, you have had. Those pages are certainly inspiring! Thank you. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From brashley46 at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 06:21:06 2022 From: brashley46 at gmail.com (B. Ross Ashley) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 01:21:06 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News Message-ID: Sandie moved in with me in September of 1974. She was avoiding a 15 km hitchhike to work her midnight shift during a transit strike; reader, she never left. In 2014 I wrote a thank you note to the Amalgamated Transit Union. From saffronrose at me.com Tue Jan 4 06:24:21 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 22:24:21 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97C50EEA-131F-4BB2-9AB9-927F59E84854@me.com> On Jan 3, 2022, at 10:21 PM, B. Ross Ashley wrote: > > ?Sandie moved in with me in September of 1974. She was avoiding a 15 km > hitchhike to work her midnight shift during a transit strike; reader, she > never left. > > In 2014 I wrote a thank you note to the Amalgamated Transit Union. Wow! From mundane to romantic reasons. A. Marina Fournier From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 09:50:14 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 03:50:14 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News In-Reply-To: <97C50EEA-131F-4BB2-9AB9-927F59E84854@me.com> References: <97C50EEA-131F-4BB2-9AB9-927F59E84854@me.com> Message-ID: There's a story in that. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 12:24 AM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On Jan 3, 2022, at 10:21 PM, B. Ross Ashley wrote: > > > > ?Sandie moved in with me in September of 1974. She was avoiding a 15 km > > hitchhike to work her midnight shift during a transit strike; reader, she > > never left. > > > > In 2014 I wrote a thank you note to the Amalgamated Transit Union. > > Wow! From mundane to romantic reasons. > > A. Marina Fournier > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From proto at panix.com Tue Jan 4 12:20:18 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 07:20:18 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Kerfluffle In-Reply-To: <81c81911-ffe0-dc7f-a909-6ffc3e60b3ef@matija.com> References: <81c81911-ffe0-dc7f-a909-6ffc3e60b3ef@matija.com> Message-ID: <65599AD3-A7B0-4E0E-BB19-C1C1D5324F84@panix.com> > On Jan 3, 2022, at 1:06 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > I think it highly likely. Any business where a manager can utter ?we do not pay you to think? without said manager being summarily fired is, IMHO, headed down the drain. Unfortunately, such businesses can survive for a long time, especially if they are large enough to be considered to big to fail and repeatedly bailed out. Banks are a prime example. It was commented I forget where, that 'The airlines in America got large subsidies when went to executive bonuses and stockholder profits and the subsidies were not needed as some new entity would arise to fly the planes. Why spend tax payer money on subsidies? That is after all for what corporate bankruptcy is.? The price of tickets might have to be raised, but who is flown by the airlines? It?s the upper middle class basically, the lower middle class takes the bus and the middle middle class is flown rarely if ever. The rich are flown privately. I hear it works like this the rich pay lawyers and lobbyists to avoid taxes, middle class pays Federal tax, the lower class pays sales tax. Better to stop here before I get into American politics. ? "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." - Attributed to Plato From proto at panix.com Tue Jan 4 12:31:39 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 07:31:39 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <453E79FC-8A05-4FFC-A3F5-79D31BDF7220@panix.com> > On Jan 3, 2022, at 12:45 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > Everything I've read about polio makes me think it was a terrible, terrible disease. (Aside: I read someone pointing out that the most people who had polio experienced it as a stomach disorder, and that what we remember today as Polio could be called ?long Polio", a rarer, but much more severe manifestation - their point was that we have not yet realized the full consequences of long Covid). Reading this in the morning, nothing makes you feel more alive, as the knowledge that death and disability can happen at any moment. It alway there, but we are most of the time in De Nile. ? As the historical Buddha said, ?Hatred does not stop by hatred at any time; hatred stops only by love. this is an ancient rule.? about 2770 BP (BP means either Before Present or Before Physics that is before nuclear testing made it necessary to adjust carbon 14 dating. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 4 14:47:30 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:47:30 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Sylvia McIvers I donated blood recently, the bruise in my elbow has turned yellow and started to fade. A bunch of random strangers saved my life when I nearly died in childbed, and I feel I ought to pay it forward. I donate at the same hospital, maybe I will help a relative of someone who helped me. The earliest I can donate again is Feb 16 - not exactly the hearts for the holiday :) Sylvia Gwynne: I recently got my gold '25 donations' badge. I was once described as a 'good bleeder' by one of the women taking the blood donations - I'm choosing to regard that as a compliment. Sometimes after donating I'll get a text telling me that my donation is about to be used, and which hospital it was taken to. So even in lockdown, at least part of me got to travel around. From smith.martin.music at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 14:51:21 2022 From: smith.martin.music at gmail.com (Martin Smith ) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:51:21 -0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> References: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> Message-ID: <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> Feels very weird to know that I grew up with Fahrenheit and my kids didn't. All Celsius over here, until the current government changes it back in its constant lunatic mania for gestures rather than substance. Incidentally, I haven't dropped below freezing point in the South of England yet. Martin -----Original Message----- From: Lois-Bujold On Behalf Of A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold Sent: 03 January 2022 17:06 To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Cc: A. Marina Fournier Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Temperature On Jan 3, 2022, at 6:59 AM, Sylvia McIvers wrote: > > ?On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 8:03 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > >> Speaking of myoglobin, I donated a pint of A+ on the 30th. > > I donated blood recently, the bruise in my elbow has turned yellow and > started to fade. > > A bunch of random strangers saved my life when I nearly died in > childbed, and I feel I ought to pay it forward. I donate at the same > hospital, maybe I will help a relative of someone who helped me. I donate because dunnamany strangers provided enough blood to transfuse my sister and me, 23 mos apart, in different countries, at birth and for periodic transfusions in our first months, until we got to 5 lbs. Our mother was 4?9?, only over 85 lbs when in her 2nd & 3rd trimesters of pregnancy. Parents were Rh-incompatible. I?m paying it forward, too. I aged out of the bone marrow donor program. I?m donating what organs can be harvested when I die. Used to be my left arm was the only place to find a vein. It?s sunk too far in, and a needle hitting a nerve instead is no fun. My right arm, now that I?m better hydrated, is where I give. Let?s hear it for generous random strangers! A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to smith.martin.music at gmail.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 4 14:53:21 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:53:21 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Raymond Collins "May you die a death of a thousand paper cuts if you damage or steal this book." "May the Librarian of the Unseen University rip your arms out the their sockets if you burn this book!" Gwynne: I don't think Penric would put curses in his books; a sorcerer has to be very careful about things like that. Just one student has some horrible accident, and suddenly everyone is blaming sorcerers for making cursed books - and a lot of students stop reading. There's so many odd rumours about sorcerers in his world as it is (and, let's face it, most of the rumours aren't even close to what they can really do. Sorcerers are pretty scary, really - we just see a really nice one.) From kawyle at att.net Tue Jan 4 14:53:31 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:53:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492425387.1140805.1641308011371@mail.yahoo.com> I'd never heard of notifications about the use of donated blood. That's a wonderful idea, where feasible. Karen On Tuesday, January 4, 2022, 09:47:46 AM EST, Gwynne Powell wrote: From: Sylvia McIvers Gwynne: I recently got my gold '25 donations' badge. I was once described as a 'good bleeder' by one of the women taking the blood donations - I'm choosing to regard that as a compliment. Sometimes after donating I'll get a text telling me that my donation is about to be used, and which hospital it was taken to. So even in lockdown, at least part of me got to travel around. -- From sdean at sdean.net Tue Jan 4 15:06:52 2022 From: sdean at sdean.net (sdean at sdean.net) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2022 15:06:52 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2LZmZgw-i3c1RxRhUbt8I_9E9I9F3HZtIYt5_nCM1cFOnMBDoLJils6gouKX9Ud4kL2tlYmjxAC-y-ATnP4Sg1eRyO9MBhvbyTaTfDvxnk0=@sdean.net> But real education that doesn't just confirm your prejudice is always perilous. Just as you should be careeful what you ask for...... ??????? Original Message ??????? On Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 9:53 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: Raymond Collins rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > "May you die a death of a thousand paper cuts if you damage or steal this > > book." > > "May the Librarian of the Unseen University rip your arms out the their > > sockets if you burn this book!" > > Gwynne: I don't think Penric would put curses in his books; a sorcerer > > has to be very careful about things like that. Just one student has some > > horrible accident, and suddenly everyone is blaming sorcerers for making > > cursed books - and a lot of students stop reading. There's so many odd > > rumours about sorcerers in his world as it is (and, let's face it, most of the > > rumours aren't even close to what they can really do. Sorcerers are > > pretty scary, really - we just see a really nice one.) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to sdean at sdean.net > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From phoenix at mindstalk.net Tue Jan 4 18:04:29 2022 From: phoenix at mindstalk.net (Damien Sullivan) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 13:04:29 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Kerfluffle In-Reply-To: <65599AD3-A7B0-4E0E-BB19-C1C1D5324F84@panix.com> References: <81c81911-ffe0-dc7f-a909-6ffc3e60b3ef@matija.com> <65599AD3-A7B0-4E0E-BB19-C1C1D5324F84@panix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 04, 2022 at 07:20:18AM -0500, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > The price of tickets might have to be raised, but who is flown by the airlines? It?s the upper middle class basically, > the lower middle class takes the bus and the middle middle class is flown rarely if ever. The rich are flown privately. This seems like an obsolete view of air travel. And the middle middle is unlikely to travel *less* than the lower middle. -xx- Damien X-) From tlambs1138 at charter.net Tue Jan 4 18:12:35 2022 From: tlambs1138 at charter.net (Jean Lamb) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 10:12:35 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News Message-ID: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> Mike and I met in fencing class, as sword's point. We had both read GLORY ROAD the summer before and decided the sport sounded like fun. Being partly ambidextrous, I deliberately trained left handed to give me as much advantage as possible, though I was actually slightly more right handed with the foil. We discovered we were both SF and fantasy fans, and reader, I married him. And in the early 1980's, I sent a thank you note to Robert Heinlein. Jean Lamb tlambs1138 at charter.net https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 From kawyle at att.net Tue Jan 4 19:23:20 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 19:23:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News In-Reply-To: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> Message-ID: <1620028301.1249922.1641324200412@mail.yahoo.com> What a lovely story! I wish I'd thought of doing the same -- my husband and I met at a picnic and talked science fiction, including Heinlein, for two hours straight. Karen A. Wyle On Tuesday, January 4, 2022, 01:12:49 PM EST, Jean Lamb wrote: Mike and I met in fencing class, as sword's point. We had both read GLORY ROAD the summer before and decided the sport sounded like fun. Being partly ambidextrous, I deliberately trained left handed to give me as much advantage as possible, though I was actually slightly more right handed with the foil.? We discovered we were both SF and fantasy fans, and reader, I married him. And in the early 1980's, I sent a thank you note to Robert Heinlein. Jean Lamb tlambs1138 at charter.net https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 From lmb at matija.com Tue Jan 4 19:43:15 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 19:43:15 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Happy Christmas! In-Reply-To: <60e4764e-be7e-0471-bcf0-0bc0320e754e@matija.com> References: <581e6eb5-82a2-7320-12dc-e07e268a1b15@allums.email> <1402529594.1061395.1640442558390@mail.yahoo.com> <60e4764e-be7e-0471-bcf0-0bc0320e754e@matija.com> Message-ID: <00cc6e11-45a8-5c36-3605-fd596d257fac@matija.com> On 25/12/2021 14:57, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > On 25/12/2021 14:29, Karen A. Wyle wrote: >> ? When will they find out if it unfolds properly? > > The sunshield should be fully deployed within 10 days. The cooling > down of all the hardware and instruments should take about 90 days. > > The full commissioning phase is scheduled to take about 6 months > before it enters normal operations. > I just read (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1478410862536896515) that the 5th layer of the sunshield is now fully deployed, in other words, the deployment of the sunshield is complete. The telescope is still on the way to it's final L2 orbit. From howard at brazee.net Tue Jan 4 19:45:53 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 12:45:53 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Space telescope In-Reply-To: <00cc6e11-45a8-5c36-3605-fd596d257fac@matija.com> References: <581e6eb5-82a2-7320-12dc-e07e268a1b15@allums.email> <1402529594.1061395.1640442558390@mail.yahoo.com> <60e4764e-be7e-0471-bcf0-0bc0320e754e@matija.com> <00cc6e11-45a8-5c36-3605-fd596d257fac@matija.com> Message-ID: <84EEA454-BDCF-4298-B8B0-28FAB6780E81@brazee.net> > On Jan 4, 2022, at 12:43 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > I just read (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1478410862536896515 ) that the 5th layer of the sunshield is now fully deployed, in other words, the deployment of the sunshield is complete. The telescope is still on the way to it's final L2 orbit. Did you see this? https://digg.com/video/astronomer-accidentally-captured-the-james-webb-space-telescope-flying-by-and-recorded-it-in-an-8k-time-lapse From lmb at matija.com Tue Jan 4 19:55:22 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 19:55:22 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Space telescope In-Reply-To: <84EEA454-BDCF-4298-B8B0-28FAB6780E81@brazee.net> References: <581e6eb5-82a2-7320-12dc-e07e268a1b15@allums.email> <1402529594.1061395.1640442558390@mail.yahoo.com> <60e4764e-be7e-0471-bcf0-0bc0320e754e@matija.com> <00cc6e11-45a8-5c36-3605-fd596d257fac@matija.com> <84EEA454-BDCF-4298-B8B0-28FAB6780E81@brazee.net> Message-ID: <8dfb7d54-b051-c180-1615-ced50040a9b5@matija.com> On 04/01/2022 19:45, Howard Brazee wrote: > Did you see this? > > https://digg.com/video/astronomer-accidentally-captured-the-james-webb-space-telescope-flying-by-and-recorded-it-in-an-8k-time-lapse I did NOT! Thanks for the link! From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 19:57:06 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:57:06 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation, was Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 9:47 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: Sylvia McIvers > > I donated blood ... > Sylvia > > Gwynne: > Sometimes after donating I'll get a text telling me that my donation is > about > to be used, and which hospital it was taken to. So even in lockdown, at > least > part of me got to travel around. > -- > Nice! I wish I got that. I wonder, though, how long a pint lasts. Does the blood ever spoil and have to be discarded before use? From baur at chello.at Tue Jan 4 20:03:51 2022 From: baur at chello.at (markus baur) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 21:03:51 +0100 Subject: [LMB] OT: Space telescope In-Reply-To: <84EEA454-BDCF-4298-B8B0-28FAB6780E81@brazee.net> References: <581e6eb5-82a2-7320-12dc-e07e268a1b15@allums.email> <1402529594.1061395.1640442558390@mail.yahoo.com> <60e4764e-be7e-0471-bcf0-0bc0320e754e@matija.com> <00cc6e11-45a8-5c36-3605-fd596d257fac@matija.com> <84EEA454-BDCF-4298-B8B0-28FAB6780E81@brazee.net> Message-ID: <2ac8d12e-c657-5ace-23b5-8c74e3dea1da@chello.at> thank you i do not think that was accidental .. but it was very lucky servus markus Am 04.01.2022 um 20:45 schrieb Howard Brazee: > > Did you see this? > > https://digg.com/video/astronomer-accidentally-captured-the-james-webb-space-telescope-flying-by-and-recorded-it-in-an-8k-time-lapse > > -- markus baur SCA: markus von brixlegg schluesselgasse 3/5 tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662 a-1040 wien email: baur at chello.at austria/europe icbm: 48?11'39"N; 16?22'06"E a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html "der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..." From matt.msg at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 20:42:38 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 15:42:38 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Voting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 9:16 PM Sylvia McIvers wrote: > For years, it was a known fact that men played better than women. It turns > out that when judging 'blind', the women made a miraculous improvement. > How astonishing. > I researched this a lot about ten years ago. You're leaving out the important information. Who'd have thought? When the judges are blinded as to the sex of the musician, the ratings of women increase. But they do not equal men's. There is a real effect, which people internalize and then exaggerate. But nevertheless the effect exists. Matt G. From saffronrose at me.com Tue Jan 4 22:34:30 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:34:30 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D05803B-83E5-47FC-B260-C1A5AC54DE78@me.com> That would be so wonderful, to know when it?s getting used. When I?ve donated multiple boxes of food at a local charitable organization, the first box is usually getting packed up to go before the last one?s unloaded. Immediate gratification! I?m just trying to avoid waste, and it helps others, so win-win. BTW, a silent listee suggests donating seasoning, because that comes so rarely. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala > On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:47 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > ?From: Sylvia McIvers > > I donated blood recently, the bruise in my elbow has turned yellow and > started to fade. > A bunch of random strangers saved my life when I nearly died in childbed, > and I feel I ought to pay it forward. I donate at the same hospital, maybe > I will help a relative of someone who helped me. > The earliest I can donate again is Feb 16 - not exactly the hearts for the > holiday :) > Sylvia > > Gwynne: I recently got my gold '25 donations' badge. I was once described > as a 'good bleeder' by one of the women taking the blood donations - I'm > choosing to regard that as a compliment. > Sometimes after donating I'll get a text telling me that my donation is about > to be used, and which hospital it was taken to. So even in lockdown, at least > part of me got to travel around. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to saffronrose at me.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From saffronrose at me.com Tue Jan 4 22:45:17 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:45:17 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <492425387.1140805.1641308011371@mail.yahoo.com> References: <492425387.1140805.1641308011371@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:53 AM, Karen A. Wyle wrote: > > ? I'd never heard of notifications about the use of donated blood. That's a wonderful idea, where feasible. When we adopted a bonded pair of poodle mutts, I wanted to let their previous alpha know they were loved & safe, but apparently that?s against regs: the humans can?t communicate. I?d love to know as well. It?s possible that the blood donated at Stanford U Hospital facilities are in use the next day, esp for us O+. I think somewhere I might have said I was A+, but that?s Kurt & Arthur. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From saffronrose at me.com Tue Jan 4 22:53:57 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:53:57 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News In-Reply-To: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> Message-ID: <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:12 AM, Jean Lamb wrote: > > ?Mike and I met in fencing class, as sword's point. We had both read GLORY > ROAD the summer before and decided the sport sounded like fun. Being partly > ambidextrous, I deliberately trained left handed to give me as much > advantage as possible, though I was actually slightly more right handed with > the foil. We discovered we were both SF and fantasy fans, and reader, I > married him. And in the early 1980's, I sent a thank you note to Robert Heinlein. That is so neat! I?ll bet Uhura didn?t fence. Sulu was yummy while fencing in TOS. In the recent reboot movie, he was dead serious rather than dashing. I?m a lefty. I took fencing as my PE credit in college, and haven?t a clue why I didn?t continue. Such fun?Heyer reader & medievalist, why not? The young engineer I mentioned who got engaged the same week we did met his wife at a con. He was sitting alone in a corridor reading, and she decided to engage him in chat. The rest is history. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 22:59:16 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 16:59:16 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: <2LZmZgw-i3c1RxRhUbt8I_9E9I9F3HZtIYt5_nCM1cFOnMBDoLJils6gouKX9Ud4kL2tlYmjxAC-y-ATnP4Sg1eRyO9MBhvbyTaTfDvxnk0=@sdean.net> References: <2LZmZgw-i3c1RxRhUbt8I_9E9I9F3HZtIYt5_nCM1cFOnMBDoLJils6gouKX9Ud4kL2tlYmjxAC-y-ATnP4Sg1eRyO9MBhvbyTaTfDvxnk0=@sdean.net> Message-ID: Penric would never put a curse on anybody stealing, damaging or destroying a book. But he'd surely would curse them. As for what Des would do? On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 9:07 AM sdean at sdean.net wrote: > But real education that doesn't just confirm your prejudice is always > perilous. Just as you should be careeful what you ask for...... > > ??????? Original Message ??????? > > On Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 9:53 AM, Gwynne Powell < > gwynnepowell at hotmail.com> wrote: > > > From: Raymond Collins rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > > > "May you die a death of a thousand paper cuts if you damage or steal this > > > > book." > > > > "May the Librarian of the Unseen University rip your arms out the their > > > > sockets if you burn this book!" > > > > Gwynne: I don't think Penric would put curses in his books; a sorcerer > > > > has to be very careful about things like that. Just one student has some > > > > horrible accident, and suddenly everyone is blaming sorcerers for making > > > > cursed books - and a lot of students stop reading. There's so many odd > > > > rumours about sorcerers in his world as it is (and, let's face it, most > of the > > > > rumours aren't even close to what they can really do. Sorcerers are > > > > pretty scary, really - we just see a really nice one.) > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to sdean at sdean.net > > > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Tue Jan 4 23:16:18 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 17:16:18 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Space telescope In-Reply-To: <2ac8d12e-c657-5ace-23b5-8c74e3dea1da@chello.at> References: <581e6eb5-82a2-7320-12dc-e07e268a1b15@allums.email> <1402529594.1061395.1640442558390@mail.yahoo.com> <60e4764e-be7e-0471-bcf0-0bc0320e754e@matija.com> <00cc6e11-45a8-5c36-3605-fd596d257fac@matija.com> <84EEA454-BDCF-4298-B8B0-28FAB6780E81@brazee.net> <2ac8d12e-c657-5ace-23b5-8c74e3dea1da@chello.at> Message-ID: Fascinating. I've been keeping track of Webb through my NASA app. "Where is James Webb telescope?" In the next few days it'll begin unfolding its mirrors. Fingers crossed. It's already more than halfway to its L2 destination but it's slowing down. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 2:03 PM markus baur via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > thank you > > i do not think that was accidental .. but it was very lucky > > servus > > markus > > Am 04.01.2022 um 20:45 schrieb Howard Brazee: > > > > Did you see this? > > > > > https://digg.com/video/astronomer-accidentally-captured-the-james-webb-space-telescope-flying-by-and-recorded-it-in-an-8k-time-lapse > < > https://digg.com/video/astronomer-accidentally-captured-the-james-webb-space-telescope-flying-by-and-recorded-it-in-an-8k-time-lapse > > > > > > > > > -- > markus baur SCA: markus von brixlegg > schluesselgasse 3/5 tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662 > a-1040 wien email: baur at chello.at > austria/europe icbm: 48?11'39"N; 16?22'06"E > > a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html > > "der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..." > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 5 00:10:00 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 16:10:00 -0800 Subject: [LMB] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_whether_you=E2=80=99re_a_sheep_or_a_goat_?= =?utf-8?b?LiAuIC4=?= Message-ID: <09D7E071-E121-4501-9359-9A6787D261BE@me.com> I thought it was a cute idea. Food instead of a bellwether, but you?d need two and some herding dogs to do the same. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2022/01/03/1069942305/sheep-goats-encourage-vaccination-germany A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 5 00:12:47 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 16:12:47 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> References: <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <69156704-319B-4E42-B3E4-717F454AD262@me.com> On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:51 AM, Martin Smith wrote: > > ?Feels very weird to know that I grew up with Fahrenheit and my kids didn't. All Celsius over here, until the current government changes it back in its constant lunatic mania for gestures rather than substance. Too many politicians everywhere work that way, don?t they? A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From cjbotteron at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 01:22:31 2022 From: cjbotteron at gmail.com (Carol Botteron) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:22:31 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) Message-ID: Gwynne wrote: I don't think Penric would put curses in his books; a sorcerer has to be very careful about things like that. Just one student has some horrible accident, and suddenly everyone is blaming sorcerers for making cursed books - and a lot of students stop reading. There's so many odd rumours about sorcerers in his world as it is (and, let's face it, most of the rumours aren't even close to what they can really do. Sorcerers are pretty scary, really - we just see a really nice one.) I wrote: "When Penric was a student, the books he used were handmade. I don't recall curses in those books." I was not referring to books that Penric translated, wrote, or made, just to those he used as a student. Certainly it's possible that the school avoided using books with curses in them. Getting away from Penric, another possible curse: "If you damage or steal this book, you will learn that its descriptions of the infernal region are understated." From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 02:04:06 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:04:06 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Happy Christmas! In-Reply-To: <00cc6e11-45a8-5c36-3605-fd596d257fac@matija.com> References: <581e6eb5-82a2-7320-12dc-e07e268a1b15@allums.email> <1402529594.1061395.1640442558390@mail.yahoo.com> <60e4764e-be7e-0471-bcf0-0bc0320e754e@matija.com> <00cc6e11-45a8-5c36-3605-fd596d257fac@matija.com> Message-ID: The James Webb telescope will begin deploying it's secondary mirror on Wednesday. It's the mirror at the end of the boom facing the main mirror. In the App store you can download the NASA app. It has a section called "Where is the web?" It lays out a timeline for the Webb's deployment, speed, location and temperature. It's pretty informative. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 1:43 PM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On 25/12/2021 14:57, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > On 25/12/2021 14:29, Karen A. Wyle wrote: > >> When will they find out if it unfolds properly? > > > > The sunshield should be fully deployed within 10 days. The cooling > > down of all the hardware and instruments should take about 90 days. > > > > The full commissioning phase is scheduled to take about 6 months > > before it enters normal operations. > > > I just read (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1478410862536896515) > that the 5th layer of the sunshield is now fully deployed, in other > words, the deployment of the sunshield is complete. The telescope is > still on the way to it's final L2 orbit. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 02:18:54 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:18:54 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <69156704-319B-4E42-B3E4-717F454AD262@me.com> References: <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> <69156704-319B-4E42-B3E4-717F454AD262@me.com> Message-ID: Sadly I'm locked into the English measurement system so when I see centigrade I have to figure out that is in Fahrenheit. The same with meters and liters. I blame the lazy politicians who refused to pass the metric system in the US back in the 70's. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 6:12 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:51 AM, Martin Smith > wrote: > > > > ?Feels very weird to know that I grew up with Fahrenheit and my kids > didn't. All Celsius over here, until the current government changes it back > in its constant lunatic mania for gestures rather than substance. > > Too many politicians everywhere work that way, don?t they? > > A. Marina Fournier > saffronrose at me.com > Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e > Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA > Sent from iFionnghuala > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From wawenri at msn.com Wed Jan 5 02:36:18 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 02:36:18 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News In-Reply-To: <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> Message-ID: I did a little fencing at George AFB, foil only. Since I was on base less than 90 days, I didn't advance very far. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 3:53:57 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Cc: A. Marina Fournier Subject: Re: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:12 AM, Jean Lamb wrote: > > ?Mike and I met in fencing class, as sword's point. We had both read GLORY > ROAD the summer before and decided the sport sounded like fun. Being partly > ambidextrous, I deliberately trained left handed to give me as much > advantage as possible, though I was actually slightly more right handed with > the foil. We discovered we were both SF and fantasy fans, and reader, I > married him. And in the early 1980's, I sent a thank you note to Robert Heinlein. That is so neat! I?ll bet Uhura didn?t fence. Sulu was yummy while fencing in TOS. In the recent reboot movie, he was dead serious rather than dashing. I?m a lefty. I took fencing as my PE credit in college, and haven?t a clue why I didn?t continue. Such fun?Heyer reader & medievalist, why not? The young engineer I mentioned who got engaged the same week we did met his wife at a con. He was sitting alone in a corridor reading, and she decided to engage him in chat. The rest is history. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0118fbae0d31452ea3e208d9cfd51f3a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637769336526772230%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=g8pXYYOC3SOhfVbdF46J979NdTlS%2Ff1FusUt7UZuBcQ%3D&reserved=0 From vanlook19 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 02:36:49 2022 From: vanlook19 at gmail.com (B Van Look) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 18:36:49 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: <492425387.1140805.1641308011371@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 2:45 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > I?d love to know as well. It?s possible that the blood donated at Stanford > U Hospital facilities are in use the next day, esp for us O+. I think > somewhere I might have said I was A+, but that?s Kurt & Arthur. The Red Cross tells me what city my blood was used in. When I created my online account, I asked to know whatever info they were willing to share. Amusingly, my blood *does* know the way to San Jose. It also knows the way to Sacramento, Portland and Seattle. Bj From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 5 02:42:26 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 19:42:26 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Re; (OT) LMB : Personal News In-Reply-To: References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 4, 2022, at 7:36 PM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > I did a little fencing at George AFB, foil only. Since I was on base less than 90 days, I didn't advance very far. I still have a mask, jacket, saber, foil, and a practice ?p?e. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 5 02:54:47 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 02:54:47 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: "Martin Smith " Feels very weird to know that I grew up with Fahrenheit and my kids didn't. All Celsius over here, until the current government changes it back in its constant lunatic mania for gestures rather than substance. Incidentally, I haven't dropped below freezing point in the South of England yet. Martin Gwynne: I grew up with pounds, shillings and pence - then we went to decimal currency. And I grew up with all the random mess of the old measurement system, with feet and inches, pounds and ounces, and all the rest of it - and then we went decimal with that too. Fahrenheit went to Celsius. And the new systems are so much simpler and easier. But... my grandmother lived with us. So for years, and years after the change, I'd have to translate everything back to the old measurements when I talked to her. It became automatic, and really fast; I'd do it without even noticing during our conversations. She's long gone, of course, but I can still do conversions if I have to - one of those totally useless skills that hangs around (while I'm totally incapable of doing things I actually need. Dammit.) Oddly, I still like to convert people's heights to feet and inches. Somehow that is still how I 'see' it. Everything else is more comfortable in metric. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 5 02:57:54 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 02:57:54 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: "Karen A. Wyle" I'd never heard of notifications about the use of donated blood. That's a wonderful idea, where feasible. Karen Gwynne: It's nice to know that you really have helped someone. I like giving blood - it's so easy to do, it does help people, and with the pandemic going on I can't do my volunteering in the nursing home, so this is at least something I can do. Besides, how often do you get to save lives while lying down and doing nothing? Win-win, definitely. From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 5 03:01:11 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:01:11 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 4, 2022, at 7:54 PM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Oddly, I still like to convert people's heights to feet and inches. Somehow > that is still how I 'see' it. Everything else is more comfortable in metric. Do people still think people?s weight in stones? From kcollett at hamilton.edu Wed Jan 5 03:08:10 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Kathy Collett) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 22:08:10 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> Message-ID: On Jan 4, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: > > I still have a mask, jacket, saber, foil, and a practice ?p?e. I still have a foil. I took fencing the year I was in England for 11th grade=lower sixth form, and then again at college, and briefly about 12 years ago with a student fencing club here at Hamilton College. Katherine From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 5 03:11:33 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 03:11:33 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation, was Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Sylvia McIvers > Gwynne: > Sometimes after donating I'll get a text telling me that my donation is > about to be used, and which hospital it was taken to. So even in lockdown, at least part of me got to travel around. > -- > Nice! I wish I got that. I wonder, though, how long a pint lasts. Does the blood ever spoil and have to be discarded before use? Gwynne: They process it into its different components, and anything not used right away goes for research, or different sorts of storage. They don't waste anything if they can possibly help it. And at the moment, with the pandemic interfering with so much, a lot of donors aren't able to donate as often as they used to, so there's a lot less blood stored up ready. From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 5 03:13:28 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:13:28 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 4, 2022, at 8:08 PM, Kathy Collett wrote: > >> I still have a mask, jacket, saber, foil, and a practice ?p?e. > > I still have a foil. I took fencing the year I was in England for 11th grade=lower sixth form, and then again at college, and briefly about 12 years ago with a student fencing club here at Hamilton College. I watched on TV the match where the American won her Olympic gold medal. It was a reminder to all of the sword ?n sorcery readers how the very best fencer is the one who gets killed the fewest time. That really applies to a wide variety of things that happen in life, From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 5 03:18:39 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 03:18:39 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Raymond Collins Penric would never put a curse on anybody stealing, damaging or destroying a book. But he'd surely would curse them. As for what Des would do? Gwynne: Interesting question. She could be upset about people stealing or damaging books, because it would upset Pen. But she's not all that interested in books and reading, and especially in writing or translating, so she might be sneakily pleased to see her pet hates being damaged. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 5 03:26:20 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 03:26:20 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Howard Brazee > On Jan 4, 2022, at 7:54 PM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > Oddly, I still like to convert people's heights to feet and inches. Somehow > that is still how I 'see' it. Everything else is more comfortable in metric. Do people still think people?s weight in stones? Gwynne: Not much, no. I'm happy with kg for that. But for some reason, height is easier to visualise in feet and inches. All other measurements are ok in metric for me. Sometimes with temperature they'll give the temps and then note that '...which is 100 in the old Fahrenheit...' We still see that 100 as some kind of dividing line - once it hits 100 you're allowed to feel hot. From litalex at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 03:44:47 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 22:44:47 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, > On Jan 4, 2022, at 22:26, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Do people still think people?s weight in stones? I don?t know about other places, but I think the UK still does. Whenever I watch a British chat show, they always talk about losing weight in terms of how many stones. little Alex From litalex at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 03:50:16 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 22:50:16 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation, was Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3954525D-1178-4CA6-8148-5735C3E81128@gmail.com> Hello, I donated a couple of times back during college, but I don?t think I?d be able to these days. It?s nothing major, but whenever I go to my doctor's for a blood test, the phlebotomist just can?t get the needle into a blood vessel, ie, I get stab a couple of times until they give up and use the veins on the back of my hand. little Alex From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 5 04:00:12 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 21:00:12 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation, was Temperature In-Reply-To: <3954525D-1178-4CA6-8148-5735C3E81128@gmail.com> References: <3954525D-1178-4CA6-8148-5735C3E81128@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7C565D43-9345-4784-94D2-9ACB8776B558@brazee.net> > On Jan 4, 2022, at 8:50 PM, Alex Kwan wrote: > > I donated a couple of times back during college, but I don?t think I?d be able to these days. It?s nothing major, but whenever I go to my doctor's for a blood test, the phlebotomist just can?t get the needle into a blood vessel, ie, I get stab a couple of times until they give up and use the veins on the back of my hand. I won?t let them do that. I?ve had to get that when I?m a patient, but when I?m a donor, I walk if they can?t get my blood. From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 5 04:08:09 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:08:09 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation, was Temperature In-Reply-To: <3954525D-1178-4CA6-8148-5735C3E81128@gmail.com> References: <3954525D-1178-4CA6-8148-5735C3E81128@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 4, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Alex Kwan wrote: > > ?I donated a couple of times back during college, but I don?t think I?d be able to these days. It?s nothing major, but whenever I go to my doctor's for a blood test, the phlebotomist just can?t get the needle into a blood vessel, ie, I get stab a couple of times until they give up and use the veins on the back of my hand. That used to be the case for me. I understand your frustration. I remember the day of five pokes in two arms with no success. After a point, I would only let phlebotomists draw blood, but there have been a couple of inept ones. When I began drinking water more, as some of my medications?and breathing through my mouth because my nose was constantly stuffed up?left me with dry mouth, and my veins plumped up enough to for vampires to get to without much difficulty. Mostly. However, the one they?ve liked in my left arm sank deeper and deeper, near a nerve?should have heard me yelp when it was hit?and now my right elbow is the spot used. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 5 04:30:05 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 21:30:05 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation, was Temperature In-Reply-To: References: <3954525D-1178-4CA6-8148-5735C3E81128@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9EA16A31-9A6F-44CF-B04C-AD4BD36BF274@brazee.net> > On Jan 4, 2022, at 9:08 PM, A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > However, the one they?ve liked in my left arm sank deeper and deeper, near a nerve?should have heard me yelp when it was hit?and now my right elbow is the spot used From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 5 04:39:21 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:39:21 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:19 PM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > ?Sadly I'm locked into the English measurement system so when I see > centigrade I have to figure out that is in Fahrenheit. The same with meters > and liters. I blame the lazy politicians who refused to pass the metric > system in the US back in the 70's. I buy saffron by the ounce?a bit more than 28g?and loose tea usually in grams. I can do that conversion, and liters/quarts/ounces easily. I know that 10C is cool, 20C is ?room temperature?, and 30C is hot, and for temps that humans live in, can approximate. I?m 1.5m tall?and 1? is mid-calf, 2? below my butt, 3?/yard at my waist, 44/45? middle of my chest, 54? at my lower lip, and 60? where you?d think. Did I mention how much of my life I?ve spent in fabric stores? My mother was a couture level seamstress with a fabric addiction. Buttons and trims have been my downfall. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 5 04:45:27 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 21:45:27 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1DBA9BD9-7BE3-4E18-8793-F09335880273@brazee.net> > On Jan 4, 2022, at 9:39 PM, A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > I buy saffron by the ounce?a bit more than 28g?and loose tea usually in grams. I can do that conversion, and liters/quarts/ounces easily. I know that 10C is cool, 20C is ?room temperature?, and 30C is hot, and for temps that humans live in, can approximate. > > I?m 1.5m tall?and 1? is mid-calf, 2? below my butt, 3?/yard at my waist, 44/45? middle of my chest, 54? at my lower lip, and 60? where you?d think. Did I mention how much of my life I?ve spent in fabric stores? My mother was a couture level seamstress with a fabric addiction. Buttons and trims have been my downfall. I?m 37?. That?s more accurate than the incorrectly precise 98.6?. The conversion advantages of metric are overstated. But the compatibility advantages are underrated. I don?t convert my liter bottle of coke, or a 5th of whiskey. And I just look at the correct speedometer on my car. From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 06:21:58 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 00:21:58 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> Message-ID: I like watching fencing matches on You Tube also I've been watching Japanese Kendo matches also. It's incredibly fast. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 9:13 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 4, 2022, at 8:08 PM, Kathy Collett wrote: > > > >> I still have a mask, jacket, saber, foil, and a practice ?p?e. > > > > I still have a foil. I took fencing the year I was in England for 11th > grade=lower sixth form, and then again at college, and briefly about 12 > years ago with a student fencing club here at Hamilton College. > > I watched on TV the match where the American won her Olympic gold medal. > It was a reminder to all of the sword ?n sorcery readers how the very best > fencer is the one who gets killed the fewest time. That really applies to > a wide variety of things that happen in life, > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 06:24:43 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 00:24:43 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tomorrow the temperature is supposed to drop down to 14F. I really wish it would be 14 Celsius. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 9:44 PM Alex Kwan wrote: > Hello, > > > On Jan 4, 2022, at 22:26, Gwynne Powell > wrote: > > > > Do people still think people?s weight in stones? > > I don?t know about other places, but I think the UK still does. Whenever I > watch a British chat show, they always talk about losing weight in terms of > how many stones. > > little Alex > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 06:31:43 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 00:31:43 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <1DBA9BD9-7BE3-4E18-8793-F09335880273@brazee.net> References: <1DBA9BD9-7BE3-4E18-8793-F09335880273@brazee.net> Message-ID: I have a neat app on my phone that lets convert just about any measurement known to mankind. Right now it's a nice comfortable 295.88 Kelvin in my living room or 533.13 Rankine. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 10:45 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 4, 2022, at 9:39 PM, A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > > I buy saffron by the ounce?a bit more than 28g?and loose tea usually in > grams. I can do that conversion, and liters/quarts/ounces easily. I know > that 10C is cool, 20C is ?room temperature?, and 30C is hot, and for temps > that humans live in, can approximate. > > > > I?m 1.5m tall?and 1? is mid-calf, 2? below my butt, 3?/yard at my waist, > 44/45? middle of my chest, 54? at my lower lip, and 60? where you?d think. > Did I mention how much of my life I?ve spent in fabric stores? My mother > was a couture level seamstress with a fabric addiction. Buttons and trims > have been my downfall. > > I?m 37?. That?s more accurate than the incorrectly precise 98.6?. > > The conversion advantages of metric are overstated. But the compatibility > advantages are underrated. > > I don?t convert my liter bottle of coke, or a 5th of whiskey. And I just > look at the correct speedometer on my car. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 10:19:42 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:19:42 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah well Des is pretty mercurial in that respect. On the other hand she could tell Penric she's had her share of annoying critters to feed on and decide the book stealing, damaging, or burning SOB could be used as a mobile larder for lice, mice, mosquitoes and other annoying pests. I don't think Penric would object all that much. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 9:18 PM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: Raymond Collins > > Penric would never put a curse on anybody stealing, damaging or destroying > a book. But he'd surely would curse them. As for what Des would do? > > Gwynne: Interesting question. She could be upset about people stealing or > damaging books, because it would upset Pen. But she's not all that > interested > in books and reading, and especially in writing or translating, so she > might > be sneakily pleased to see her pet hates being damaged. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From proto at panix.com Wed Jan 5 12:18:42 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 07:18:42 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F2AEF3E-C2CF-4FB4-A14D-7E3DDB4602BB@panix.com> > On Jan 4, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Gwynne: Interesting question. She could be upset about people stealing or > damaging books, because it would upset Pen. But she's not all that interested > in books and reading, and especially in writing or translating, so she might > be sneakily pleased to see her pet hates being damaged.But > -- But perhaps more work for her and Penric. I doubt that she would be pleased. ? As the historical Buddha said, ?Hatred does not stop by hatred at any time; hatred stops only by love. this is an ancient rule.? about 2770 BP (BP means either Before Present or Before Physics that is before nuclear testing made it necessary to adjust carbon 14 dating. From proto at panix.com Wed Jan 5 12:36:09 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 07:36:09 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Book Curses (Penric?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C847767-F7A6-4ECF-B7A8-90D01E6A9A2F@panix.com> > On Jan 5, 2022, at 5:19 AM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > Yeah well Des is pretty mercurial in that respect. On the other hand she > could tell Penric she's had her share of annoying critters to feed on and > decide the book stealing, damaging, or burning SOB could be used as a > mobile larder for lice, mice, mosquitoes and other annoying pests. I don't > think Penric would object all that much. A curse that the thieves be caught by the authorities, should be enough, books are very valuable in Penric?s time and would be mainly in the hands of the governments or dedicates of the gods. The gods orders are effectively an alternative government. ? ?Of all the means to insure happiness throughout the whole life, by far the most important is the acquisition of friends.? ~Epicurus From wawenri at msn.com Wed Jan 5 13:05:11 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:05:11 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> Message-ID: I have read that the reason fencing isn?t popular as a spectator sport is that it?s so fast you actually can?t see what?s happening. >From my quite limited experience, the participants aren?t planning in the sense, ?he did that so I?ll do this.? It?s all reaction. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Raymond Collins Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 11:21:58 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News I like watching fencing matches on You Tube also I've been watching Japanese Kendo matches also. It's incredibly fast. On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 9:13 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 4, 2022, at 8:08 PM, Kathy Collett wrote: > > > >> I still have a mask, jacket, saber, foil, and a practice ?p?e. > > > > I still have a foil. I took fencing the year I was in England for 11th > grade=lower sixth form, and then again at college, and briefly about 12 > years ago with a student fencing club here at Hamilton College. > > I watched on TV the match where the American won her Olympic gold medal. > It was a reminder to all of the sword ?n sorcery readers how the very best > fencer is the one who gets killed the fewest time. That really applies to > a wide variety of things that happen in life, > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Caf100dbce6c242413b4408d9d013bb26%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637769605424731567%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qnZFPeD13rQ1to8Ybj%2BYq0qwtxmE62URdhI26NWriuo%3D&reserved=0 > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Caf100dbce6c242413b4408d9d013bb26%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637769605424731567%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qnZFPeD13rQ1to8Ybj%2BYq0qwtxmE62URdhI26NWriuo%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Wed Jan 5 13:08:54 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:08:54 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fahrenheit was interested in selling thermometers. The tale I heard was that he picked his 100 and zero points from his subjective feelings of hot and cold days. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Gwynne Powell Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 8:26:20 PM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature From: Howard Brazee > On Jan 4, 2022, at 7:54 PM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > Oddly, I still like to convert people's heights to feet and inches. Somehow > that is still how I 'see' it. Everything else is more comfortable in metric. Do people still think people?s weight in stones? Gwynne: Not much, no. I'm happy with kg for that. But for some reason, height is easier to visualise in feet and inches. All other measurements are ok in metric for me. Sometimes with temperature they'll give the temps and then note that '...which is 100 in the old Fahrenheit...' We still see that 100 as some kind of dividing line - once it hits 100 you're allowed to feel hot. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cedcfafdfbcc243abe91308d9cffb2adc%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637769499925680870%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=bjXNEWXXGksXbpcqBYCQUjNY7eBreYqg7TeW3pSgHoA%3D&reserved=0 From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 5 13:37:22 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 06:37:22 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> Message-ID: <751E3F64-CB87-46FF-B667-5CD4D34558D2@brazee.net> > On Jan 5, 2022, at 6:05 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > I have read that the reason fencing isn?t popular as a spectator sport is that it?s so fast you actually can?t see what?s happening. True. But how many spectators can tell what kind of pitch the baseball pitcher made? From wawenri at msn.com Wed Jan 5 13:40:39 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:40:39 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking Message-ID: One of the things that bugs Gayle about me is that occasionally I will jump from one subject to another that has no or little connection to what has gone before. It's a little like Miles leaking thoughts when his mind is racing. (No, I'm not claiming to be like Miles in any important way.) As an example, I was reading an article about genetic testing that said that, while prenatal tests for Down's were fairly accurate, tests for other genetic problems could have up to 85% false positives. My mind immediately jumped to "The Yiddish Policemen's Union" and the test for Tay Sachs. The specific tests that were problematic were not mentioned in the article. Does anyone else's mind jump around like that? William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 5 13:48:02 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:48:02 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: WILLIAM A WENRICH I have read that the reason fencing isn?t popular as a spectator sport is that it?s so fast you actually can?t see what?s happening. William A Wenrich Gwynne: I think that the sport would be more popular with spectators if the competitors stopped wearing protective gear. It might limit the competitions a bit, though. From wawenri at msn.com Wed Jan 5 13:49:34 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:49:34 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing Message-ID: I just got another phishing attack. This one was promising to have my student loans forgiven if I contacted them and gave them information. Since I paid off my student loan of $150 in 1968 while in the Air Force, I had no problem ignoring it. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From smith.martin.music at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 14:26:12 2022 From: smith.martin.music at gmail.com (Martin Smith ) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:26:12 -0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009e01d80240$30e053c0$92a0fb40$@gmail.com> Gwynne: "...I can still do conversions if I have to - one of those totally useless skills that hangs around (while I'm totally incapable of doing things I actually need. Dammit.) Oddly, I still like to convert people's heights to feet and inches. Somehow that is still how I 'see' it. Everything else is more comfortable in metric." Same. Though the fact that many of my recipe books still use Imperial (non-Barrayaran Imperial) weights alongside metric means that I have never stopped using those either. I still weigh myself in stones. Martin From kawyle at att.net Wed Jan 5 14:52:25 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:52:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1029167885.1476914.1641394345668@mail.yahoo.com> I agree about blood donation, and wish I could still do it. I did check one more time after being told in October 2001 that my veins were too small. They'd gotten even smaller in the interval. Karen On Tuesday, January 4, 2022, 09:58:09 PM EST, Gwynne Powell wrote: Gwynne: It's nice to know that you really have helped someone. I like giving blood - it's so easy to do, it does help people, and with the pandemic going on I can't do my volunteering in the nursing home, so this is at least something I can do. Besides, how often do you get to save lives while lying down and doing nothing? Win-win, definitely. -- From quietann at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 14:52:18 2022 From: quietann at gmail.com (quietann) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:52:18 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think you're trying to lead us into US politics once again (STOP IT, WILLIAM), but I'll respond to the scientific part -- which is to say that "accuracy" is complicated when it comes to genetic tests. Testing for Tay-Sachs is a simple test, and recessive disease (need two copies of the gene to be affected.) In a few Jewish communities, people will be tested as they reach the age of marriage, and revealing "carrier status" is part of the shidduch (matchmaking) to be sure that 2 carriers don't marry each other. Simple recessive diseases like this (cystic fibrosis is another example) have virtually error-free tests. Tay-Sachs is a horrible horrible way to die. It is degenerative, and children affected are usually dead by age 4, and their short lives are miserable. There is no cure, and really no treatment to speak of. But I know what you want to force on people. The NIPT tests done in early pregnancy *do* have a high false positive rate -- but in an ethical and legally unrestricted setting, further testing is done. NIPT has high sensitivity (ability to detect abnormalities) but low specificity (ability to detect "true negatives"), especially for micro-deletions. It's sort of like mammograms -- what looks like an abnormality isn't, most of the time, but further testing (repeat mammogram or breast MRI, or a biopsy) is done before anything else. (And mammograms do miss cancer sometimes -- they don't have as high sensitivity as NIPT.) I worked for a maternal-fetal medicine service for a while; absolutely NO decisions were made based on NIPT results alone, and the doctors discouraged NIPT testing except in patients at high risk. This is a good basic link for understanding sensitivity, specificity, etc. https://www.healthnewsreview.org/toolkit/tips-for-understanding-studies/understanding-medical-tests-sensitivity-specificity-and-positive-predictive-value/ Ann On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 8:41 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > One of the things that bugs Gayle about me is that occasionally I will > jump from one subject to another that has no or little connection to what > has gone before. It's a little like Miles leaking thoughts when his mind is > racing. (No, I'm not claiming to be like Miles in any important way.) > As an example, I was reading an article about genetic testing that said > that, while prenatal tests for Down's were fairly accurate, tests for other > genetic problems could have up to 85% false positives. My mind immediately > jumped to "The Yiddish Policemen's Union" and the test for Tay Sachs. The > specific tests that were problematic were not mentioned in the article. > Does anyone else's mind jump around like that? > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to quietann at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- quietann at gmail.com aka "The Accidental Jewess" From wawenri at msn.com Wed Jan 5 15:11:25 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 15:11:25 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good grief! My mind jumps around. It has nothing at all to do with US politics. I was talking about myself and wondering how odd I was. All tests have false positives and negatives. 85% does seem extraordinarily high. I could have mentioned the unreliability of lie detectors. However, the point of the post wasn?t about testing. It was about how my mind jumps around. I don?t always talk or think about politics. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of quietann Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 7:52:18 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Leaking I think you're trying to lead us into US politics once again (STOP IT, WILLIAM), but I'll respond to the scientific part -- which is to say that "accuracy" is complicated when it comes to genetic tests. Testing for Tay-Sachs is a simple test, and recessive disease (need two copies of the gene to be affected.) In a few Jewish communities, people will be tested as they reach the age of marriage, and revealing "carrier status" is part of the shidduch (matchmaking) to be sure that 2 carriers don't marry each other. Simple recessive diseases like this (cystic fibrosis is another example) have virtually error-free tests. Tay-Sachs is a horrible horrible way to die. It is degenerative, and children affected are usually dead by age 4, and their short lives are miserable. There is no cure, and really no treatment to speak of. But I know what you want to force on people. The NIPT tests done in early pregnancy *do* have a high false positive rate -- but in an ethical and legally unrestricted setting, further testing is done. NIPT has high sensitivity (ability to detect abnormalities) but low specificity (ability to detect "true negatives"), especially for micro-deletions. It's sort of like mammograms -- what looks like an abnormality isn't, most of the time, but further testing (repeat mammogram or breast MRI, or a biopsy) is done before anything else. (And mammograms do miss cancer sometimes -- they don't have as high sensitivity as NIPT.) I worked for a maternal-fetal medicine service for a while; absolutely NO decisions were made based on NIPT results alone, and the doctors discouraged NIPT testing except in patients at high risk. This is a good basic link for understanding sensitivity, specificity, etc. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.healthnewsreview.org%2Ftoolkit%2Ftips-for-understanding-studies%2Funderstanding-medical-tests-sensitivity-specificity-and-positive-predictive-value%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cdcce9095375943e3e07608d9d05b13e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637769911872650171%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=MZs1hE%2F2AMeQ%2FRl%2FAQaKGAsyPsX4zb0iRdiKGEr5q4k%3D&reserved=0 Ann On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 8:41 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > One of the things that bugs Gayle about me is that occasionally I will > jump from one subject to another that has no or little connection to what > has gone before. It's a little like Miles leaking thoughts when his mind is > racing. (No, I'm not claiming to be like Miles in any important way.) > As an example, I was reading an article about genetic testing that said > that, while prenatal tests for Down's were fairly accurate, tests for other > genetic problems could have up to 85% false positives. My mind immediately > jumped to "The Yiddish Policemen's Union" and the test for Tay Sachs. The > specific tests that were problematic were not mentioned in the article. > Does anyone else's mind jump around like that? > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to quietann at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cdcce9095375943e3e07608d9d05b13e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637769911872650171%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=NiIFXg9lLLMkEuJiYd0AO%2B3SDLX1nYx%2Bf8VlSnviGEQ%3D&reserved=0 > -- quietann at gmail.com aka "The Accidental Jewess" -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cdcce9095375943e3e07608d9d05b13e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637769911872650171%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=NiIFXg9lLLMkEuJiYd0AO%2B3SDLX1nYx%2Bf8VlSnviGEQ%3D&reserved=0 From lmb at matija.com Wed Jan 5 15:11:28 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 15:11:28 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3d4a8131-97b2-8f8e-6ba7-32b07db37497@matija.com> On 05/01/2022 13:49, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > I just got another phishing attack. This one was promising to have my student loans forgiven if I contacted them and gave them information. Since I paid off my student loan of $150 in 1968 while in the Air Force, I had no problem ignoring it. Since I own some domains (and have all mail for the domains delivered to my inbox), and some of those email addresses have been in the clear on the net for a long time, I get phishing and other attacks every day. I have a address at the Slovenian CERT to whom I can send them for action/public notification. One of the funniest ones I got recently was for a Slovenian bank. It was very well done, with bank logos, buttons, an elaborate site. But all the text was in Slovakian, and that bank does not have any branches in Slovakia, only in Slovenia. But the scammer did not know the difference. From huntkc at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 15:45:50 2022 From: huntkc at gmail.com (Karen Hunt) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:45:50 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:53 AM quietann wrote: [snip] > Testing for Tay-Sachs is a simple test, and recessive disease (need two > copies of the gene to be affected.) In a few Jewish communities, people > will be tested as they reach the age of marriage, and revealing "carrier > status" is part of the shidduch (matchmaking) to be sure that 2 carriers > don't marry each other. Simple recessive diseases like this (cystic > fibrosis is another example) have virtually error-free tests. Tay-Sachs is > a horrible horrible way to die. It is degenerative, and children affected > are usually dead by age 4, and their short lives are miserable. There is no > cure, and really no treatment to speak of. But I know what you want > to force on people. > One small adjustment. Cystic Fibrosis is considerably more difficult to test for than Tay-Sachs or Sickle-Cell - false positives are unlikely, but false negatives are pretty common. The core problem is that there are over a thousand different mutations that can produce CF, and the widely-available tests look for only the most common variants. (As a side-note, the old sweat test only catches 80% of CF cases, so the genetic tests do much better than that one ever did, fortunately.) I had a (very expensive) full test for it where they actually completely sequence the gene and check it against all the known variants (test given after I tested negative for a second time and there was uncertainty about whether it was correct). As a result, I know that I do not have CF or any of several other lung-affecting genetic diseases, so the current theory is that my lung troubles are entirely due to the bad luck of getting a rare and nasty chicken pox complication when I was 12 (MRSA pneumonia - staph isn't that rare after chicken pox, but MRSA was really unexpected in the 70s) followed by slowly getting worse as pneumonia incidents pile up. For a particular case, there's the tale of what happened to a friend: when he married, they tested his wife for the standard top-5 variants, and she was clear. Testing stopped there. If they'd tried harder, they would have discovered that he's a carrier of the most common variant - F50del if you like fancy terminology - and she's a carrier for one of the rare ones. Their first son has CF and almost died shortly after birth. His condition is only partially treated by the new trikafta drug (it only fixes people with that most common variant, so it only partially fixes his situation). From mark at allums.email Wed Jan 5 16:48:08 2022 From: mark at allums.email (Mark Allums) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:48:08 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> I read the same or similar article. It's not about politics. Stop picking on William when he;s not guilty of anything, as in this case. Mark A. On 1/5/2022 8:52 AM, quietann wrote: > I think you're trying to lead us into US politics once again (STOP IT, > WILLIAM), From kcollett at hamilton.edu Wed Jan 5 17:08:44 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Kathy Collett) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 12:08:44 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books Message-ID: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> At our family zoom call last night (all of us Bujold fans), my daughter mentioned Lois?s 1999 essay, available at http://www.dendarii.com/collide.html. We were talking about Gideon the Ninth and other books, including Ishmael ? I haven?t read either of them, but look forward to reading Gideon from what I?ve heard about it. There seem to be widely divergent opinions on Ishmael ? not on the zoom call; only my nephew had read it, and he said he might have been impressed with it if he hadn?t taken some anthropology courses ? but I?ve heard people raving over it as a revelation and others saying that it?s pretentious drivel, even if they agree with its overall message. So for some people, maybe it does expand their worldview, while for others, it fits all right with their worldview but they object to it on other grounds. Anyone here have opinions about it? Anyway, I read Lois?s essay again and still find it enjoyable and worthwhile. Katherine From margaret at devere.net Wed Jan 5 17:25:16 2022 From: margaret at devere.net (Margaret) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 17:25:16 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: Thank you. That was a wonderful essay. I absolutely agree with her #4: "The reader's world-view can be expanded." That was my experience as a younger person, and when I'm fortunate in my choice of reading material, it's my experience today. Question: She says that Barrayar is an exploration of the cost of parenthood through six parallel couples. I can't identify the couples. Here are the ones I can think of: Clearly: Cordelia and Aral Kou and Drou Maybe: Alys and Padma Kareen and Serg Kareen and Vidal ???? Margaret ------ Original Message ------ From: "Kathy Collett" To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." Sent: 1/5/2022 10:08:44 AM Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books >At our family zoom call last night (all of us Bujold fans), my daughter mentioned Lois?s 1999 essay, available at http://www.dendarii.com/collide.html. We were talking about Gideon the Ninth and other books, including Ishmael ? I haven?t read either of them, but look forward to reading Gideon from what I?ve heard about it. There seem to be widely divergent opinions on Ishmael ? not on the zoom call; only my nephew had read it, and he said he might have been impressed with it if he hadn?t taken some anthropology courses ? but I?ve heard people raving over it as a revelation and others saying that it?s pretentious drivel, even if they agree with its overall message. So for some people, maybe it does expand their worldview, while for others, it fits all right with their worldview but they object to it on other grounds. Anyone here have opinions about it? > >Anyway, I read Lois?s essay again and still find it enjoyable and worthwhile. > >Katherine >-- >Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to margaret at devere.net >Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk >http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From tzbarasc at lasierra.edu Wed Jan 5 17:25:09 2022 From: tzbarasc at lasierra.edu (Tony Zbaraschuk) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:25:09 -0600 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: I can strongly recommend _Gideon the Ninth_ et sequelae. Do _not_ read _Harrow the Ninth_ first, however. Tony Z On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Kathy Collett wrote: > At our family zoom call last night (all of us Bujold fans), my daughter > mentioned Lois?s 1999 essay, available at > http://www.dendarii.com/collide.html. We were talking about Gideon the > Ninth and other books, including Ishmael ? I haven?t read either of them, > but look forward to reading Gideon from what I?ve heard about it. There > seem to be widely divergent opinions on Ishmael ? not on the zoom call; > only my nephew had read it, and he said he might have been impressed with > it if he hadn?t taken some anthropology courses ? but I?ve heard people > raving over it as a revelation and others saying that it?s pretentious > drivel, even if they agree with its overall message. So for some people, > maybe it does expand their worldview, while for others, it fits all right > with their worldview but they object to it on other grounds. Anyone here > have opinions about it? > > Anyway, I read Lois?s essay again and still find it enjoyable and > worthwhile. > > Katherine > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to tzbarasc at lasierra.edu > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Tony Zbaraschuk Bookworm, talker, learner Et vocavit Deus, "Fiat lux!" From kawyle at att.net Wed Jan 5 17:34:49 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 17:34:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: <1116228307.1530060.1641404089800@mail.yahoo.com> This link doesn't work for me?? Karen On Wednesday, January 5, 2022, 12:25:26 PM EST, Margaret via Lois-Bujold wrote: Thank you. That was a wonderful essay. [snip] Margaret ------ Original Message ------ From: "Kathy Collett" To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." Sent: 1/5/2022 10:08:44 AM Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books >At our family zoom call last night (all of us Bujold fans), my daughter mentioned Lois?s 1999 essay, available at http://www.dendarii.com/collide.html.?[snip] -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to kawyle at att.net Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From huntkc at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 17:40:30 2022 From: huntkc at gmail.com (Karen Hunt) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 12:40:30 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:25 PM Margaret via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > Thank you. That was a wonderful essay. > > I absolutely agree with her #4: "The reader's world-view can be > expanded." That was my experience as a younger person, and when I'm > fortunate in my choice of reading material, it's my experience today. > > Question: She says that Barrayar is an exploration of the cost of > parenthood through six parallel couples. I can't identify the couples. > Here are the ones I can think of: > > Clearly: > Cordelia and Aral > Kou and Drou > > Maybe: > Alys and Padma > Kareen and Serg > Kareen and Vidal > The other is Bothari and the replicator. Quoted from the Author's Afterword in Cordelia's Honor: Not just Aral and Cordelia, but all the other supporting couples took up and played their symphonic variations on the theme, exploring its complexities: Kou and Drou, Padma and Alys, Piotr and his dead wife, Vordarian and Serg and Kareen, and most strangely and SFnally, Bothari and the uterine replicator. From margdean56 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 17:45:45 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:45:45 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: <751E3F64-CB87-46FF-B667-5CD4D34558D2@brazee.net> References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> <751E3F64-CB87-46FF-B667-5CD4D34558D2@brazee.net> Message-ID: I took a semester of fencing in college, just to find out what it was like, and was the second *worst* fencer in my entire class. My younger son, however, also took up fencing in college (as a competitive sport to replace the ice dancing he'd been doing earlier), and from what I gather did *much* better at it! --Margaret Dean From proto at panix.com Wed Jan 5 18:04:28 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:04:28 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> Message-ID: <5376DBC2-6CF4-427D-B441-8418BCBE4DC3@panix.com> > On Jan 5, 2022, at 8:05 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > I have read that the reason fencing isn?t popular as a spectator sport is that it?s so fast you actually can?t see what?s happening. > From my quite limited experience, the participants aren?t planning in the sense, ?he did that so I?ll do this.? It?s all reaction. > > William A Wenrich Correct, thinking is just too slow, especially thinking using words. ? ?That which doesn?t make us stronger kills us.? From ravenclaweric at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 18:08:25 2022 From: ravenclaweric at gmail.com (Eric Oppen) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:08:25 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <1029167885.1476914.1641394345668@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1029167885.1476914.1641394345668@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm working on my 14th gallon of donated blood. On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 6:52 AM Karen A. Wyle wrote: > I agree about blood donation, and wish I could still do it. I did check > one more time after being told in October 2001 that my veins were too > small. They'd gotten even smaller in the interval. > Karen > On Tuesday, January 4, 2022, 09:58:09 PM EST, Gwynne Powell < > gwynnepowell at hotmail.com> wrote: > > Gwynne: It's nice to know that you really have helped someone. > I like giving blood - it's so easy to do, it does help people, and with the > pandemic going on I can't do my volunteering in the nursing home, so this > is > at least something I can do. > Besides, how often do you get to save lives while lying down and doing > nothing? > Win-win, definitely. > -- > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From lmb at matija.com Wed Jan 5 18:42:51 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 18:42:51 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: <5376DBC2-6CF4-427D-B441-8418BCBE4DC3@panix.com> References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> <5376DBC2-6CF4-427D-B441-8418BCBE4DC3@panix.com> Message-ID: <14e49254-4691-f8be-846d-c380ec9c79cb@matija.com> On 05/01/2022 18:04, WalterStuartBushell wrote: >> On Jan 5, 2022, at 8:05 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >> >> I have read that the reason fencing isn?t popular as a spectator sport is that it?s so fast you actually can?t see what?s happening. >> From my quite limited experience, the participants aren?t planning in the sense, ?he did that so I?ll do this.? It?s all reaction. >> >> William A Wenrich > Correct, thinking is just too slow, especially thinking using words. I think that goes for all of the martial arts (if they're any good, anyway). From listmail at gordonj.net Wed Jan 5 19:34:26 2022 From: listmail at gordonj.net (Gordon Jackson) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 19:34:26 -0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation was Temperature Message-ID: <044a01d8026b$41fe7120$c5fb5360$@gordonj.net> I donated when younger but by the time I left NZ to come to UK was no longer permitted to do so due to having lived in the UK for a while during the 1980s. A physician I mentioned that to here in the UK asked if it was due to potential exposure to HIV but it wasn't, it was due to potential exposure to Mad Cow Disease. I looked it up and the restriction is still in place. If you lived in the UK, France or Republic of Ireland for >6 months between 1980 and 1996 you cannot donate blood in NZ. Cheers Gordon -----Original Message----- From: Lois-Bujold On Behalf Of Eric Oppen Sent: 05 January 2022 18:08 To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Temperature I'm working on my 14th gallon of donated blood. On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 6:52 AM Karen A. Wyle wrote: > I agree about blood donation, and wish I could still do it. I did > check one more time after being told in October 2001 that my veins > were too small. They'd gotten even smaller in the interval. > Karen > On Tuesday, January 4, 2022, 09:58:09 PM EST, Gwynne Powell < > gwynnepowell at hotmail.com> wrote: > > Gwynne: It's nice to know that you really have helped someone. > I like giving blood - it's so easy to do, it does help people, and > with the pandemic going on I can't do my volunteering in the nursing > home, so this is at least something I can do. > Besides, how often do you get to save lives while lying down and doing > nothing? > Win-win, definitely. > -- > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to listmail at gordonj.net Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 5 19:54:43 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:54:43 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation was Temperature In-Reply-To: <044a01d8026b$41fe7120$c5fb5360$@gordonj.net> References: <044a01d8026b$41fe7120$c5fb5360$@gordonj.net> Message-ID: <138EB62C-AF1E-4D8E-9573-2895C62A9F28@me.com> On Jan 5, 2022, at 11:34 AM, Gordon Jackson wrote: > > it was due to potential exposure to > Mad Cow Disease. I looked it up and the restriction is still in place. If > you lived in the UK, France or Republic of Ireland for >6 months between > 1980 and 1996 you cannot donate blood in NZ. Or in the US. France & Germany are excluded as well, possibly different years. Marina From mark at allums.email Wed Jan 5 20:34:21 2022 From: mark at allums.email (Mark Allums) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:34:21 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Fwd: Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I sent a msg to QuietAnne by mistake; she hit reply, thinking it was to the list, instead it came to me. Here it is. Mark A. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [LMB] Leaking Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 15:18:44 -0500 From: quietann Reply-To: quietann at gmail.com To: Mark Allums Mark, William, It's OK. My apologies for being over-sensitive and cranky this morning. As I said before: the NIFT test isn't accurate. It's great at?detecting true?positives, but really bad at detecting true?negatives. A lot of screening tests aren't accurate, and if one has a positive test, further testing is required. And Karen, thanks for the correction on the genetics of CF. I should have remembered that. Tay-Sachs is much more clear. There are a few variants, though. (My (Ashkenazi Jew) doctoral advisor was a T-S carrier, and there was a panic when it looked like her (Iranian Muslim) husband was a carrier, too. Apparently there's a genetic marker in his background that is close to, but not, the one for T-S. It was a very unexpected and wanted pregnancy; she was a "DES daughter" and due to cervical insufficiency, she was on bed rest for 7 months. At 37 weeks, her OB took her off bed rest and expected her to go into labor immediately, but somehow she made it to 40 weeks, right on time. Their son was?perfectly healthy. The whole bed rest thing made my data collection easier, because she wasn't at the university to interfere with what I was doing! What would have been weekly meetings happened about every 6 weeks, when I'd drive to her house and sit on the end of her bed while we talked.) Ann -- quietann at gmail.com aka "The Accidental Jewess" From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 5 21:19:37 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:19:37 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: <14e49254-4691-f8be-846d-c380ec9c79cb@matija.com> References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> <5376DBC2-6CF4-427D-B441-8418BCBE4DC3@panix.com> <14e49254-4691-f8be-846d-c380ec9c79cb@matija.com> Message-ID: <5B506F64-D6E9-401A-BBD8-D49F243986BB@brazee.net> It?s not that we don?t think in fast sports like fencing. But not much of the thinking is current. Our reactions are simultaneous thinking. The thinking is slower, and some of it is strategic. From matt.msg at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 21:24:38 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 16:24:38 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> Message-ID: It's nice to see eugenics being applied, although in this day and age few people are willing to call it that. (And of course not using the word makes the reality go away, as we all know.) The important difference is between people applying it to themselves, and having it applied to them by others. Matt "but people are so afraid of words" G. From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 5 21:28:31 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:28:31 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <426EE376-1799-4042-AD7B-DA6B088835E2@me.com> On Jan 5, 2022, at 5:40 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > ?One of the things that bugs Gayle about me is that occasionally I will jump from one subject to another that has no or little connection to what has gone before. It's a little like Miles leaking thoughts when his mind is racing. (No, I'm not claiming to be like Miles in any important way.) > As an example, I was reading an article about genetic testing that said that, while prenatal tests for Down's were fairly accurate, tests for other genetic problems could have up to 85% false positives. My mind immediately jumped to "The Yiddish Policemen's Union" and the test for Tay Sachs. The specific tests that were problematic were not mentioned in the article. > Does anyone else's mind jump around like that? I?m bipolar?neuro-divergent?and yes, my mind jumps around: in a series of tangents, which most people can?t follow, nor see the relevance of endpoint to the beginning without extensive explanation. One example: I was taking a class in Old French (before 1650). I had French, and a semester each of Spanish and Latin. I forget which prof said OF was closer to modern Spanish than to Latin, but s/he was correct. I admit I already had exposure to Old French via Renaissance music, but that just gave me flavor overtones. I hadn?t yet studied European historical language change. I sat with a study group for the class one night. The others plodded and didn?t finish by the end of the session. I?d finished halfway through. They weren?t interested in my insights or suggestions, and that was the last time I tried that. I worked at the college library in an acquisitions department. We?d get book requests from profs, and had to check those requests against current holdings, and if not a duplicate, flesh out as much publishing info as possible from a Union Catalog. This is before OCLC. The language the book was in didn?t matter, because I was good at matching patterns. Another job I did was to get as much publication data as possible from incoming books not found in catalog records. Few of those were in English, many were not in any language I?d been taught, but were in Roman letters. It was fun. I?d find ?little words?, diacritical marks, and sometimes cities it towns of publication. Not all bibliographic info was next to the title page, many were in a colophon at the end. So one semester there were two students to guide. ?Oh, no. I can?t do this?I haven?t studied these languages.? So not mystery fans or crossword solvers. I was not impressed. Yes, I have a gift for languages, even now?but patterns and clues are a large part of that?and none of the above just couldn?t get it. It?s as if they were afraid to tread outside of their set boundaries. But as one of our listees said in a sig, There?s no such thing for me as TMI, only info for which I haven?t found a use yet. I never know when a datum might come in handy: it often allows me to add A and B and get C, D, or E, the latter two most often more useful. It?s a neurodiverse thing. Folks with ADD or ADHD often reason along similar lines, achieving a cognitive leap. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From matt.msg at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 21:31:26 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 16:31:26 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: I am reminded of the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Darmok". Professional linguists have been known to express frustration at how elementary the concepts dealt with are, and how unrealistic it is that hyper-educated and -professional people in the distant future are finding their application a challenge. But to people who never think about how words work or what they are, the episode is a revelation. The degree to which the episode is recognized, and beloved, indicates the degree to which the majority of viewers were unfamiliar with its ideas. Matt "at Tanagra" G. On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:40 PM Karen Hunt wrote: > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:25 PM Margaret via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > Thank you. That was a wonderful essay. > > > > I absolutely agree with her #4: "The reader's world-view can be > > expanded." That was my experience as a younger person, and when I'm > > fortunate in my choice of reading material, it's my experience today. > > > > Question: She says that Barrayar is an exploration of the cost of > > parenthood through six parallel couples. I can't identify the couples. > > Here are the ones I can think of: > > > > Clearly: > > Cordelia and Aral > > Kou and Drou > > > > Maybe: > > Alys and Padma > > Kareen and Serg > > Kareen and Vidal > > > > The other is Bothari and the replicator. Quoted from the Author's Afterword > in Cordelia's Honor: > Not just Aral and Cordelia, but all the other supporting couples took up > and played their symphonic variations on the theme, exploring its > complexities: Kou and Drou, Padma and Alys, Piotr and his dead wife, > Vordarian and Serg and Kareen, and most strangely and SFnally, Bothari and > the uterine replicator. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to matt.msg at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From lmb at matija.com Wed Jan 5 21:36:10 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 21:36:10 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> Message-ID: <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> On 05/01/2022 21:24, Matthew George wrote: > It's nice to see eugenics being applied, although in this day and age few > people are willing to call it that. (And of course not using the word > makes the reality go away, as we all know.) > > The important difference is between people applying it to themselves, and > having it applied to them by others. It's a difference that makes all the difference. There are lots of things that have one name (and completely different implications) when done to you by others vs when done by you to yourself. Murder vs suicide being just the most trivial example. From matt.msg at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 22:03:27 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 17:03:27 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 4:36 PM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > There are lots of things that have one name (and completely different > implications) when > done to you by others vs when done by you to yourself. > The word people object to is the general, highly-inclusive category. 'Killing' is the example. That is the supercategory that includes both murder and suicide. I further note that Down's Syndrome births are way down even though maternal age is steadily increasing. Matt "hypocrisy" G. From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 5 22:24:53 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 14:24:53 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95948366-0A5A-468D-A0F5-B914CF1D4D3C@me.com> On Jan 5, 2022, at 10:08 AM, Eric Oppen wrote: > > ?I'm working on my 14th gallon of donated blood. Huzzah! Marina From wawenri at msn.com Wed Jan 5 23:56:19 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 23:56:19 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: <5B506F64-D6E9-401A-BBD8-D49F243986BB@brazee.net> References: <00cf01d80196$a7c0c420$f7424c60$@charter.net> <8790E8B0-7248-42A7-93E9-3651FB9B1806@me.com> <5376DBC2-6CF4-427D-B441-8418BCBE4DC3@panix.com> <14e49254-4691-f8be-846d-c380ec9c79cb@matija.com> <5B506F64-D6E9-401A-BBD8-D49F243986BB@brazee.net> Message-ID: In Glory Road, Oscar thinks about the fleche move an early on but only did it by reflex. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Howard Brazee Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 2:19:37 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News It?s not that we don?t think in fast sports like fencing. But not much of the thinking is current. Our reactions are simultaneous thinking. The thinking is slower, and some of it is strategic. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca12f41177b1b4364ece308d9d0911eef%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637770143977112181%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=d%2FjjeKd%2Fo6g4f7XPelrB%2BsK7epysfzi%2F1m8ubaSPKL4%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Thu Jan 6 00:26:57 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 00:26:57 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: The only trouble I had with Darmok was that I couldn?t understand how children could learn the background stories behind the phrases. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Matthew George Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 2:31:26 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books I am reminded of the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Darmok". Professional linguists have been known to express frustration at how elementary the concepts dealt with are, and how unrealistic it is that hyper-educated and -professional people in the distant future are finding their application a challenge. But to people who never think about how words work or what they are, the episode is a revelation. The degree to which the episode is recognized, and beloved, indicates the degree to which the majority of viewers were unfamiliar with its ideas. Matt "at Tanagra" G. On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:40 PM Karen Hunt wrote: > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:25 PM Margaret via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > Thank you. That was a wonderful essay. > > > > I absolutely agree with her #4: "The reader's world-view can be > > expanded." That was my experience as a younger person, and when I'm > > fortunate in my choice of reading material, it's my experience today. > > > > Question: She says that Barrayar is an exploration of the cost of > > parenthood through six parallel couples. I can't identify the couples. > > Here are the ones I can think of: > > > > Clearly: > > Cordelia and Aral > > Kou and Drou > > > > Maybe: > > Alys and Padma > > Kareen and Serg > > Kareen and Vidal > > > > The other is Bothari and the replicator. Quoted from the Author's Afterword > in Cordelia's Honor: > Not just Aral and Cordelia, but all the other supporting couples took up > and played their symphonic variations on the theme, exploring its > complexities: Kou and Drou, Padma and Alys, Piotr and his dead wife, > Vordarian and Serg and Kareen, and most strangely and SFnally, Bothari and > the uterine replicator. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to matt.msg at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7dfefeb3256d4e288cc808d9d092adfa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637770150679841617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=M1TkUICqDPkCN0rLgUiYigwAsMG0GgH8UNekRW%2FMfGY%3D&reserved=0 > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7dfefeb3256d4e288cc808d9d092adfa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637770150679841617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=M1TkUICqDPkCN0rLgUiYigwAsMG0GgH8UNekRW%2FMfGY%3D&reserved=0 From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 00:35:19 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 18:35:19 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That reminds me of a old George Carlin shtick on how to spice up baseball, mines in the outfield. On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 7:48 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: WILLIAM A WENRICH > > I have read that the reason fencing isn?t popular as a spectator sport is > that it?s so fast you actually can?t see what?s happening. > William A Wenrich > > Gwynne: I think that the sport would be more popular with spectators > if the competitors stopped wearing protective gear. > > It might limit the competitions a bit, though. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From quietann at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 02:01:20 2022 From: quietann at gmail.com (quietann) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 21:01:20 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> Message-ID: OK. There's this little thing called sacrifice. Are you aware of how many marriages fail when a severely disabled child is born? Or the general lack of support services for these children, once they are adults? Massachusetts' waiting list for adult group homes was about 5 years long as of a few years ago. Aging parents who know they will not be there forever for their adult children, or were unable to continue caring for them? This is a harsh reality, but potential parents are not stupid for looking at this. Ann On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 5:03 PM Matthew George wrote: > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 4:36 PM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > There are lots of things that have one name (and completely different > > implications) when > > done to you by others vs when done by you to yourself. > > > > The word people object to is the general, highly-inclusive category. > 'Killing' is the example. That is the supercategory that includes both > murder and suicide. > > I further note that Down's Syndrome births are way down even though > maternal age is steadily increasing. > > Matt "hypocrisy" G. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to quietann at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- quietann at gmail.com aka "The Accidental Jewess" From litalex at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 02:38:31 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 21:38:31 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: Hello, > On Jan 5, 2022, at 19:26, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > The only trouble I had with Darmok was that I couldn?t understand how children could learn the background stories behind the phrases. Osmosis. You learn what the phrase is supposed to mean, then later the stories. When I was growing up, there was a television animated short program explaining the story behind the various phrases. Other languages have the same thing, too, just not as much. For example, most kids in the West learn that Eden means utopia and only later learn about the biblical story behind it. little Alex From beatrice_otter at zoho.com Thu Jan 6 04:10:14 2022 From: beatrice_otter at zoho.com (Beatrice Otter) Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2022 20:10:14 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> Message-ID: <17e2d9483f0.101b3b08859912.3601909530739529985@zoho.com> ---- On Wed, 05 Jan 2022 18:01:20 -0800 quietann wrote ---- OK. There's this little thing called sacrifice. Are you aware of how many marriages fail when a severely disabled child is born? Or the general lack of support services for these children, once they are adults? Massachusetts' waiting list for adult group homes was about 5 years long as of a few years ago. Aging parents who know they will not be there forever for their adult children, or were unable to continue caring for them? This is a harsh reality, but potential parents are not stupid for looking at this. Ann Beatrice Otter: I can't speak for other disabilities because I haven't seen studies on the issue, but about a decade ago there was a study (I think in Canada?) that looked at families where a child was diagnosed as autistic, and found that the divorce rate among parents with an autistic child ... was exactly the same as the national average. And this was true regardless of the severity of symptoms. The study was mostly ignored (and pooh-poohed when it was brought up, despite a large size and excellent research methods) because of the common assumption that all children with disabilities result in parents who are more likely to divorce. And you are right that we need a great deal more services for disabled people and their families; and not just more services, but better services that are tailored to the needs of the disabled person, instead of just warehousing them. Beatrice Otter From jpolowin at hotmail.com Thu Jan 6 05:48:23 2022 From: jpolowin at hotmail.com (Joel Polowin) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 05:48:23 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex Kwan wrote: > On Jan 5, 2022, at 19:26, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >> The only trouble I had with Darmok was that I couldn't understand how >> children could learn the background stories behind the phrases. > Osmosis. You learn what the phrase is supposed to mean, then later the > stories. When I was growing up, there was a television animated short > program explaining the story behind the various phrases. Other languages > have the same thing, too, just not as much. For example, most kids in > the West learn that Eden means utopia and only later learn about the > biblical story behind it. How is one supposed to learn what the phrases mean before knowing the stories? Supposedly the aliens' language didn't use words outside of such phrases; that was the point. How they could implement technology is even more problematic. Imagine a circuit diagram with the components' values labelled. It wasn't a society that was well suited to precise communication in a hurry, such as giving specific instructions in an emergency. Joel From litalex at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 07:56:20 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 02:56:20 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> Hello, > On Jan 6, 2022, at 00:48, Joel Polowin wrote: > > How is one supposed to learn what the phrases mean before knowing the > stories? Supposedly the aliens' language didn't use words outside of > such phrases; that was the point. You don?t need the story to know what a phrase is supposed to mean. People learn what a black widow means, ie, a wife who?d kill her husband (for money), before learning that it originally referred to a female spider that eats the male that mated with her. As to the episode, I don?t think the writers managed to convey their premise properly, ?cause the alien was using words other than the set phrases. And also, from what I?ve read, the language was supposedly based a little on Chinese. I can?t explain what the writers were thinking; I can only explain the Chinese. little Alex From lmb at matija.com Thu Jan 6 08:20:47 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 08:20:47 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: <1029167885.1476914.1641394345668@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46d653eb-e2b5-8f4d-6469-d22b3edf5438@matija.com> On 05/01/2022 18:08, Eric Oppen wrote: > I'm working on my 14th gallon of donated blood. That's more than 60 liters! Like 10 times average body content of blood. Wow. I am seriously impressed. You must be well on the way toward 200 donations. From lmb at matija.com Thu Jan 6 08:56:46 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 08:56:46 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> Message-ID: <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> On 05/01/2022 22:03, Matthew George wrote: > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 4:36 PM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > >> There are lots of things that have one name (and completely different >> implications) when >> done to you by others vs when done by you to yourself. >> > The word people object to is the general, highly-inclusive category. > 'Killing' is the example. That is the supercategory that includes both > murder and suicide. And notice that people don't object nearly as much to "killing" in general as they object to murder. Note the instant response from all sorts of Christians who are eager to point out that "Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not murder", restricting to more specific meaning because they want the more general meaning still allowed. The same goes for legislatures, which prohibit/punish "murder", and "manslaughter", and sometimes "suicide", but not "killing". My point stands: there are big moral differences (widely recognized) between "murder" and "suicide". And the biggest difference is personal choice. And no, "eugenics" is not the more general term. I refer you to https://www.britannica.com/science/eugenics-genetics which makes it pretty clear that eugenics, from it's very start, was not about personal choice, but about influencing other people, either through persuasion to select better mates ("good eugenics") or through legislation/coercion forcing "less desirable" people not to have children (including through sterilization) aka "bad eugenics". The more inclusive term would be "social Darwinism" (a misnomer, since it doesn't really have anything to do with Darwin). And again, the difference is in personal choice. If you consider yourself by some category superior to other people, and want to have children with a person who you think will preserve or even enhance that category in your children AND your choice of partner will have you, nobody is going to object to it. They might consider you shallow, but that is not going to prevent you from doing what you want. When you seek to enforce your choices on other people, either through anti-miscegenation laws or some other means, THAT is a whole different story. > Matt "hypocrisy" G. Your current choice for your middle name is highly appropriate. From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 11:35:39 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 05:35:39 -0600 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> References: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> Message-ID: I can't help wondering how the human invention of words effected our intellectual evolution. Every thought I have, every decision I make is through the symbology of words. Imagine you are a member of Homoerectus one of of the first hominids spreading out of Africa. How do you think without words. I bet you can't. I believe Homoerectus had a language of sorts. Then there is Koko who was trained to sign. The fact that she and other primates could communicate complex thoughts. What makes us sapient is our ability to communicate concepts and information to each other. We further improved our communication through symbolic imagery that through hits and missis evolved to a understandable alphabet. I think that is a major cornerstone of human intelligence is the ability to communicate complex thoughts through huge distances. Of course Whales might have us beat ages ago. On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 1:56 AM Alex Kwan wrote: > Hello, > > > On Jan 6, 2022, at 00:48, Joel Polowin wrote: > > > > How is one supposed to learn what the phrases mean before knowing the > > stories? Supposedly the aliens' language didn't use words outside of > > such phrases; that was the point. > > You don?t need the story to know what a phrase is supposed to mean. People > learn what a black widow means, ie, a wife who?d kill her husband (for > money), before learning that it originally referred to a female spider that > eats the male that mated with her. > > As to the episode, I don?t think the writers managed to convey their > premise properly, ?cause the alien was using words other than the set > phrases. And also, from what I?ve read, the language was supposedly based a > little on Chinese. I can?t explain what the writers were thinking; I can > only explain the Chinese. > > little Alex > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From c_muir68 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 6 12:27:30 2022 From: c_muir68 at hotmail.com (catherine muir) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:27:30 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> Message-ID: This relates to an argument I had some time ago at college. What is a ?word?? - I would argue that a great cook will think in tastes, mentally putting ingredients together. In the same way, a perfumier may think in scent; a musician will undoubtedly think in musical sounds, phrases, even in the particular sound of an instrument (I certainly do!) An artist may, for all I know, think in colour, or line, or shape, or texture. So what is a ?word?? If we include all of the above, then I would agree with Raymond?s hypothesis. If we exclude them, I profoundly disagree. Sent from Mail for Windows From: Raymond Collins Sent: 06 January 2022 11:36 To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books I can't help wondering how the human invention of words effected our intellectual evolution. Every thought I have, every decision I make is through the symbology of words. Imagine you are a member of Homoerectus one of of the first hominids spreading out of Africa. How do you think without words. I bet you can't. I believe Homoerectus had a language of sorts. Then there is Koko who was trained to sign. The fact that she and other primates could communicate complex thoughts. What makes us sapient is our ability to communicate concepts and information to each other. We further improved our communication through symbolic imagery that through hits and missis evolved to a understandable alphabet. I think that is a major cornerstone of human intelligence is the ability to communicate complex thoughts through huge distances. Of course Whales might have us beat ages ago. > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to c_muir68 at hotmail.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From lmb at matija.com Thu Jan 6 12:32:00 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:32:00 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1d4d009c-e804-0b9c-bfa2-df7ec62623b0@matija.com> I think you are using "word" as for two different things here. a) as a spoken unit of language b) as a bearer of a unit of information Most of us tend to use the same word for both things interchangeably because we have a 1:1 mapping between the two. However, I think people who use sign language exclusively, don't use words in the same way. I think everybody uses words as b, but not everybody associates each unit of information with a specific sequence of sounds. I am multilingual, and while my thoughts are in words, I think in different languages. I can/I do sometimes think about the same thing in different languages. That would seem to imply that in my brain there is an underlying concept, which the infrastructure of my brain can translate into whichever language I am thinking in in any given moment. From wawenri at msn.com Thu Jan 6 13:49:59 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 13:49:59 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <46d653eb-e2b5-8f4d-6469-d22b3edf5438@matija.com> References: <1029167885.1476914.1641394345668@mail.yahoo.com> <46d653eb-e2b5-8f4d-6469-d22b3edf5438@matija.com> Message-ID: Before I was banned from donating, I had my 9 gallon pin and was more than halfway to 10. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 1:20:47 AM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Cc: Matija Grabnar Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Temperature On 05/01/2022 18:08, Eric Oppen wrote: > I'm working on my 14th gallon of donated blood. That's more than 60 liters! Like 10 times average body content of blood. Wow. I am seriously impressed. You must be well on the way toward 200 donations. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C54db566da9d14ccc082108d9d0ed7abf%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637770540651963584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=hGdcFjkQFRxgdc6JIAmGMomr6XcfAez%2BkLg7WLo2WHM%3D&reserved=0 From kcollett at hamilton.edu Thu Jan 6 15:33:41 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Kathy Collett) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 10:33:41 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> References: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <97423642-E1EA-469B-91D6-1290FE205EBD@hamilton.edu> On Jan 6, 2022, at 2:56 AM, Alex Kwan wrote: > > You don?t need the story to know what a phrase is supposed to mean. Yes, and we see this all the time, especially with the internet and memes and the language of teens, etc. Words and phrases leak out from in-groups and start being used without the original context being known. For instance, I?ve used variations on ?all your base are belong to us? with only a vague idea of the original context. My children say ?pay troll? without having ever played the original Adventure game where you had to pay the troll the golden eggs. And culture continues to generate new examples ? we?ve already had one mention of ?hot buttered Jorts? on the list (thank you, Micki!), and I?ve seen a number elsewhere; I don?t know that it?s settled down to have one particular meaning ? the original story is rich with possibilities (see https://www.cnet.com/how-to/jorts-the-cat-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-internets-new-favourite-cat/ if you want to know more). Katherine From wawenri at msn.com Thu Jan 6 15:54:13 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 15:54:13 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <97423642-E1EA-469B-91D6-1290FE205EBD@hamilton.edu> References: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> <97423642-E1EA-469B-91D6-1290FE205EBD@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: Yet Darmok was able to explain the story to Picard, using pictures. It?s interesting that Picard used a similar story, Gilgamesh and Ecidu, to tell to Darmok. Darmok and Picard at Eladril. Sorry if the spelling is messed up. (Is it ever messed down?) William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Kathy Collett Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 8:33:41 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books On Jan 6, 2022, at 2:56 AM, Alex Kwan wrote: > > You don?t need the story to know what a phrase is supposed to mean. Yes, and we see this all the time, especially with the internet and memes and the language of teens, etc. Words and phrases leak out from in-groups and start being used without the original context being known. For instance, I?ve used variations on ?all your base are belong to us? with only a vague idea of the original context. My children say ?pay troll? without having ever played the original Adventure game where you had to pay the troll the golden eggs. And culture continues to generate new examples ? we?ve already had one mention of ?hot buttered Jorts? on the list (thank you, Micki!), and I?ve seen a number elsewhere; I don?t know that it?s settled down to have one particular meaning ? the original story is rich with possibilities (see https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnet.com%2Fhow-to%2Fjorts-the-cat-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-internets-new-favourite-cat%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C89576f1e2664417fef4308d9d129f387%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637770800380716213%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ArFss69xMhL%2F82OcQPQW40tsh%2FEaWUg53qz1Zf5rVTQ%3D&reserved=0 if you want to know more). Katherine -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C89576f1e2664417fef4308d9d129f387%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637770800380716213%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7ziM%2FocQo0bjvssecsfv3PGFQ3HwAB%2FQgDn9kkJg6UU%3D&reserved=0 From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 00:42:30 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 19:42:30 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation, was Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 10:11 PM Gwynne Powell wrote: > > And at the moment, with the pandemic interfering with so much, a lot of > donors aren't able to donate as often as they used to, so there's a lot > less > blood stored up ready. > -- > I resemble that remark. The college where I teach had blood drives every semester, so I had easy access to the people with the needles. Also, free cold pizza! and bland cookies! oh, the incentive!!! Then Covid shut down the colleges... and I didn't want to take public transit... and now I feel I need to make what I "owe" but I still don't want to take public transit. It's difficult. Sylvia From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 00:51:54 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 19:51:54 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 3:56 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > And notice that people don't object nearly as much to "killing" in > general as they object to murder. > > Note the instant response from all sorts of Christians who are eager to > point out that "Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not > murder", restricting to more specific meaning because they want the more > general meaning still allowed. > Murder Not is a good translation. What do you mean that people who want the narrower meaning also want the general meaning? I'm not sure I'm parsing your idea correctly. Sylvia From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 00:58:44 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 19:58:44 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 12:48 AM Joel Polowin wrote: > Alex Kwan wrote: > > How is one supposed to learn what the phrases mean before knowing the > stories? 4th grade joke (age may vary at your location) What time did the sun set today? hahaha, the sun didn't set, the sun stayed still and the earth turned! Seriously, this is side-splitting hilarity for the people who just found out that the world is heliocentric, not geocentric. This joke has reached the four corners of the earth. *zing* obBujold: did the Firsters bring the bible-text with them, or did Ivan & the Imperial Prod-noses know about the Four Horsemen of the Appocolypse because it's just a phrase which means Terriffying Terror Boss Of Doom? Sylvia who loves to play Spot That Metaphor From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 01:31:50 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 18:31:50 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> Message-ID: <2C9D48A1-952F-451C-ACD2-15C17E39A278@brazee.net> > On Jan 6, 2022, at 5:51 PM, Sylvia McIvers wrote: > >> Note the instant response from all sorts of Christians who are eager to >> point out that "Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not >> murder", restricting to more specific meaning because they want the more >> general meaning still allowed. >> > > > Murder Not is a good translation. It?s the meaning that the powerful prefer. From jelbelser at comcast.net Fri Jan 7 01:30:47 2022 From: jelbelser at comcast.net (Jelbelser) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 19:30:47 -0600 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <945F0EBE-9A56-45A9-A104-033888642AB4@comcast.net> > On Jan 6, 2022, at 5:35 AM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > I can't help wondering how the human invention of words effected our > intellectual evolution. Every thought I have, every decision I make is > through the symbology of words. > Imagine you are a member of Homoerectus one of of the first hominids > spreading out of Africa. > How do you think without words. I bet you can't. I believe Homoerectus had > a language of sorts. > Then there is Koko who was trained to sign. The fact that she and other > primates could communicate complex thoughts. > What makes us sapient is our ability to communicate concepts and > information to each other. We further improved our communication through > symbolic imagery that through hits and missis evolved to a understandable > alphabet. > I think that is a major cornerstone of human intelligence is the ability to > communicate complex thoughts through huge distances. > Of course Whales might have us beat ages ago. Several years ago I read a book about a sign language teacher who came across a family, I think of Mexican ancestry, who were deaf and without language. She was able, with difficulty at some significant points, to teach one man signing. Wish I could remember the title of the book; it was quite interesting. The man had some cognitive skills, but language really did expand his abilities. He ended up guiding his whole extended family into connecting and availing themselves of the wider society. My understanding of non-human language abilities (Koko et al.) is that words can be taught but grammar doesn?t quite happen. Janet in TN From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 10:05:14 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 10:05:14 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <114gtgps6n40j3dck4u5tlolnp1sqocs3a@4ax.com> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:40:39 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >One of the things that bugs Gayle about me is that occasionally I will jump from one subject to another that has no or little connection to what has gone before. It's a little like Miles leaking thoughts when his mind is racing. (No, I'm not claiming to be like Miles in any important way.) >As an example, I was reading an article about genetic testing that said that, while prenatal tests for Down's were fairly accurate, tests for other genetic problems could have up to 85% false positives. My mind immediately jumped to "The Yiddish Policemen's Union" and the test for Tay Sachs. The specific tests that were problematic were not mentioned in the article. >Does anyone else's mind jump around like that? My wife does this - changes subjects abruptly in the middle of conversations. Sometimes I have to say: "Back up, I fell off at the last corner." -- The current security system in which everyone is a suspect is bound to be ineffective and burdensome. No system can perform efficiently when one is looking for a needle in a haystack by checking each straw individually. - Rafi Sela From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 10:47:20 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 10:47:20 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:25:09 -0600, Tony Zbaraschuk via Lois-Bujold wrote: >I can strongly recommend _Gideon the Ninth_ et sequelae. Do _not_ read >_Harrow the Ninth_ first, however. Is the third one out yet? -- Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. - George Carlin From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 10:49:31 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 10:49:31 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 21:38:31 -0500, Alex Kwan wrote: >Hello, > >> On Jan 5, 2022, at 19:26, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >> >> The only trouble I had with Darmok was that I couldn?t understand how children could learn the background stories behind the phrases. > >Osmosis. You learn what the phrase is supposed to mean, then later the stories. When I was growing up, there was a television animated short program explaining the story behind the various phrases. Other languages have the same thing, too, just not as much. For example, most kids in the West learn that Eden means utopia and only later learn about the biblical story behind it. Indeed; every day, many people use stock phrases without an inkling of where they originate (which gives the cod-etymology loons an opportunity to Make Shit Up, of course). -- Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. - George Carlin From proto at panix.com Fri Jan 7 10:50:56 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:50:56 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Subject Jumps was Re: Leaking In-Reply-To: <114gtgps6n40j3dck4u5tlolnp1sqocs3a@4ax.com> References: <114gtgps6n40j3dck4u5tlolnp1sqocs3a@4ax.com> Message-ID: <90442F3E-B268-4307-9EA4-C4D7745F532B@panix.com> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:05 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:40:39 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH > wrote: > >> One of the things that bugs Gayle about me is that occasionally I will jump from one subject to another that has no or little connection to what has gone before. It's a little like Miles leaking thoughts when his mind is racing. (No, I'm not claiming to be like Miles in any important way.) >> As an example, I was reading an article about genetic testing that said that, while prenatal tests for Down's were fairly accurate, tests for other genetic problems could have up to 85% false positives. My mind immediately jumped to "The Yiddish Policemen's Union" and the test for Tay Sachs. The specific tests that were problematic were not mentioned in the article. >> Does anyone else's mind jump around like that? > > My wife does this - changes subjects abruptly in the middle of > conversations. Sometimes I have to say: "Back up, I fell off at the > last corner.? > Like Miles I frequently get accused of that. The alleged switch makes perfect sense to me, as the switch above from diseases in general to tests for Tay Sachs seems a logical continuation. I am no suffering servant type like Miles or Cazaril. Penric is not although he is a servant of the dratsaB which gets him into dangerous and messy situations most of the time he lives a normal life. Master Surakos Bosha was the beloved servant of Lady Tanar Xarre, as an albino and forcibly castrated by his family certainly qualifies as a suffering servant type. ? It?s better to be approximately correct than completely wrong. From proto at panix.com Fri Jan 7 10:54:41 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:54:41 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:49 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > Indeed; every day, many people use stock phrases without an inkling of > where they originate (which gives the cod-etymology loons an opportunity > to Make Shit Up, of course). WSB cod-etymolog???????? ? In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over." --tweet by British columnist, Dan Hodges, June 15, 2015? From lmb at matija.com Fri Jan 7 10:55:26 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 10:55:26 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> Message-ID: <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> The operative part was "[they are] restricting to more specific meaning because they want the more general meaning still allowed." In other words, a number of Christians (by no means all, of course), want murder forbidden by commandments, but other killing (death penalty, war) still allowed. I'm sorry if it was not clear. On 07/01/2022 00:51, Sylvia McIvers wrote: > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 3:56 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > >> And notice that people don't object nearly as much to "killing" in >> general as they object to murder. >> >> Note the instant response from all sorts of Christians who are eager to >> point out that "Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not >> murder", restricting to more specific meaning because they want the more >> general meaning still allowed. >> > > Murder Not is a good translation. > What do you mean that people who want the narrower meaning also want the > general meaning? > I'm not sure I'm parsing your idea correctly. > Sylvia From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 10:56:48 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 10:56:48 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation, was Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7r6gtgtfkjrvatuaecjflofgnpl1vvui4s@4ax.com> On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:57:06 -0500, Sylvia McIvers wrote: >On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 9:47 AM Gwynne Powell >wrote: > >> From: Sylvia McIvers >> >> I donated blood ... >> Sylvia >> >> Gwynne: >> Sometimes after donating I'll get a text telling me that my donation is >> about >> to be used, and which hospital it was taken to. So even in lockdown, at >> least >> part of me got to travel around. >> -- >> > >Nice! I wish I got that. >I wonder, though, how long a pint lasts. Does the blood ever spoil and >have to be discarded before use? I donated on 21 Dec; had a text yesterday saying my donation had been issued in Nottingham. Generally, refrigerated blood is good for 42 days, apparently; red blood cells can be stored for 35, platelets for a mere 7, plasma up to 3 years. Blood can be frozen, and kept for up to 10 years - I assume it has to be thawed very carefully. -- Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. - George Carlin From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 11:02:29 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 11:02:29 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> References: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:51:21 -0000, "Martin Smith " wrote: >Feels very weird to know that I grew up with Fahrenheit and my kids didn't. All Celsius over here, until the current government changes it back in its constant lunatic mania for gestures rather than substance. > >Incidentally, I haven't dropped below freezing point in the South of England yet. Fahrenheit does make a *certain* amount of sense: 0 100 -------------+-----------+----------+ Fahrenheit | too cold | too hot | -------------+-----------+----------+ Centigrade | cold | dead | -------------+-----------+----------+ Kelvin | dead | dead | -------------+-----------+----------+ -- "Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams." - Mary Ellen Kelly From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 11:05:39 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 11:05:39 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <492425387.1140805.1641308011371@mail.yahoo.com> References: <492425387.1140805.1641308011371@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:53:31 +0000 (UTC), "Karen A. Wyle" wrote: > I'd never heard of notifications about the use of donated blood. That's a wonderful idea, where feasible. I've had this for my last three donations, so it's something the UK Blood Service has recently adopted. Gave my 30th last month. I still have a way to go to catch up with my mother, who had a 60-pint badge. -- "Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams." - Mary Ellen Kelly From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 11:07:29 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 11:07:29 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <3D05803B-83E5-47FC-B260-C1A5AC54DE78@me.com> References: <3D05803B-83E5-47FC-B260-C1A5AC54DE78@me.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:34:30 -0800, "A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold" wrote: >That would be so wonderful, to know when it?s getting used. > >When I?ve donated multiple boxes of food at a local charitable organization, the first box is usually getting packed up to go before the last one?s unloaded. Immediate gratification! > >I?m just trying to avoid waste, and it helps others, so win-win. > >BTW, a silent listee suggests donating seasoning, because that comes so rarely. Some of the "food banks" actually prefer cash, as they can then (bulk) buy what's needed. But that doesn't suit the publicity needs of the supermarkets nearly so much. -- "Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams." - Mary Ellen Kelly From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 11:08:13 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 11:08:13 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6o7gtghi7v3shk9f3tqg0h8lcgocmu89gd@4ax.com> On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 20:01:11 -0700, Howard Brazee wrote: > > >> On Jan 4, 2022, at 7:54 PM, Gwynne Powell wrote: >> >> Oddly, I still like to convert people's heights to feet and inches. Somehow >> that is still how I 'see' it. Everything else is more comfortable in metric. > >Do people still think people?s weight in stones? Yes, if they're of a certain age. -- "Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams." - Mary Ellen Kelly From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 11:57:03 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:57:03 -0600 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> Message-ID: I've been thinking, that the earliest form of communication between organisms of a single species has been pheromones. And that, despite the fact we have evolved our ability to communicate verbally with each other. It's pheromones that affect or metabolism and eventually our behavior. Imagine 'Romeo and Juliet' without pheromones. Romeo: "Hi I'm Romeo, " Juliet: "Juliet, " Romeo: "Our parents are douchbags," Juliet: "You got that right!" Romeo: "well catch you later, Mercutio's taking me out to a boar fight!" Juliet: "sure, whatever, " And doeth end "Romeo and Juliet" without pheromones. On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 4:54 AM WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > > > On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:49 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > > > Indeed; every day, many people use stock phrases without an inkling of > > where they originate (which gives the cod-etymology loons an opportunity > > to Make Shit Up, of course). WSB cod-etymolog???????? > > ? > In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. > Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over." > --tweet by British columnist, Dan Hodges, June 15, 2015? > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From proto at panix.com Fri Jan 7 12:13:00 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:13:00 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> Message-ID: <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 6:57 AM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > I've been thinking, that the earliest form of communication between > organisms of a single species has been pheromones. And that, despite the > fact we have evolved our ability to communicate verbally with each other. > It's pheromones that affect or metabolism and eventually our behavior. > Imagine 'Romeo and Juliet' without pheromones. > Romeo: "Hi I'm Romeo, " > Juliet: "Juliet, " > Romeo: "Our parents are douchbags," > Juliet: "You got that right!" > Romeo: "well catch you later, Mercutio's taking me out to a boar fight!" > Juliet: "sure, whatever, " > And doeth end ?Romeo and Juliet" without pheromones. I sometimes wonder if people who believe in free will, ever when through puberty. A simple chemical change and _everything_ changes in a preestablished pattern. ? It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.? ?W. K. Clifford (1845?1879), ?The Ethics? My take is belief should be proportional to the evidence. From lmb at matija.com Fri Jan 7 12:37:13 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:37:13 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> Message-ID: On 07/01/2022 11:57, Raymond Collins wrote: > I've been thinking, that the earliest form of communication between > organisms of a single species has been pheromones. And that, despite the > fact we have evolved our ability to communicate verbally with each other. > It's pheromones that affect or metabolism and eventually our behavior. > Imagine 'Romeo and Juliet' without pheromones. > Romeo: "Hi I'm Romeo, " > Juliet: "Juliet, " > Romeo: "Our parents are douchbags," > Juliet: "You got that right!" > Romeo: "well catch you later, Mercutio's taking me out to a boar fight!" > Juliet: "sure, whatever, " > And doeth end "Romeo and Juliet" without pheromones. It is said that the shortest conversation in a specific dialect of Slovenian is Q:"A b"? A:"B" Loosely translated, that is: Q:"Would [you like to]?" A:"[I] would". As you say, phermones make some conversations ... briefer. From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 12:43:52 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 12:43:52 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:54:41 -0500, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > WSB cod-etymolog???????? When people make up seemingly-plausible origins for words and phrases that appeal to people on a narrative level but have no support from reality. AKA folk etymology. Example: POSH. Widely believed to be from "Port Outwards, Starboard Home" from cruise liners, because that's how you get the best shade. Ignoring the facts that the word predates cruise liners by some time, and that the concept only works for certain crossings. And some of our more, erm, robust Anglo-Saxonisms have plausible-sounding but erroneous origin stories as acronyms: there is no historical evidence that anyone was ever put in the stocks with a sign proclaiming "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", for example, whereas the Germanic origins of the word are understood. -- For most of history, Anonymous was a woman. - Virginia Woolf From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 12:53:00 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 12:53:00 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Re fencing, was (OT:) Personal News In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 13:48:02 +0000, Gwynne Powell wrote: >From: WILLIAM A WENRICH > >I have read that the reason fencing isn?t popular as a spectator sport is that it?s so fast you actually can?t see what?s happening. >William A Wenrich > >Gwynne: I think that the sport would be more popular with spectators >if the competitors stopped wearing protective gear. > >It might limit the competitions a bit, though. Would give a whole new meaning to "elimination bouts". -- For most of history, Anonymous was a woman. - Virginia Woolf From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 13:01:10 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 13:01:10 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Parallel parking In-Reply-To: References: <21521106-fbf9-850b-4d8a-855649955185@matija.com> <78b8b70f-98c2-41b2-1508-6071044da2fa@chello.at> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 08:12:15 +0000, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: >I was wondering the same thing. I found this: > >Tips to Curb Your Wheels Safely and Legally > > * Whether you park your vehicle facing uphill or downhill, the rule of > thumb is to turn your wheels so that the weight of the car will roll > them towards the curb. If you?re not sure which way your car is > sloped, set the car in neutral and see which way it rolls. > * If you?re faced downhill, turn your front wheels towards the curb. > * If you?re faced uphill, turn your front wheels away from the curb > and let your vehicle roll back until it gently touches the curb. > * If you park on a sloped driveway, turn your wheels so the vehicle > will not roll into the street and, again, make sure to set your > parking brake. > With a manual transmission vehicle ("stick", for you transpondians) it's also good to leave it in gear, in case the handbrake fails. -- The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity. - George Bernard Shaw From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Fri Jan 7 13:05:07 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2022 13:05:07 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Cassettes/LPs Re: OT: personal news In-Reply-To: References: <08077604-3203-4D34-8975-B7FF393D119A@me.com> <89f1tgtmmujhdrq4tn002r0oha09att41m@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jan 2022 16:23:26 -0500 (EST), alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca wrote: >Cassettes, even with Dolby D, never had good sound reproduction, and >they'd fail in a tangle of tape at the worst possible time - a real PITA. >You couldn't easily rewind to hear a specific track, either. I've only >kept a few that I taped off the radio or otherwise weren't available. The quality range was substantial; there is at least one commercially-released album recorded on a Walkman Pro. -- The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity. - George Bernard Shaw From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 14:13:32 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:13:32 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6FCAE522-4206-48B9-87AC-53D0F15088AD@brazee.net> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:02 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > Fahrenheit does make a *certain* amount of sense: > > > 0 100 > -------------+-----------+----------+ > Fahrenheit | too cold | too hot | > -------------+-----------+----------+ > Centigrade | cold | dead | > -------------+-----------+----------+ > Kelvin | dead | dead | > -------------+-----------+?????+ Only if there?s something special about the number 100. (I think there is something special about that number when I play golf, but would change my goal if I got halfway good). From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 14:18:07 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:18:07 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> Message-ID: <1F9B92C8-EA6A-44C7-8C0A-6853AE95CDD3@brazee.net> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:13 AM, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > >> And doeth end ?Romeo and Juliet" without pheromones. > > I sometimes wonder if people who believe in free will, ever when through puberty. > > A simple chemical change and _everything_ changes in a preestablished pattern. Oh yes. And those who think uploading one?s memories into a mechanical brain would be ?us?. From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 14:19:40 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:19:40 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> Message-ID: <435AACE6-A92D-4610-B31D-9D22B0E40AB9@brazee.net> Especially since this is a continuing process, maybe even accelerating. > On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:43 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > When people make up seemingly-plausible origins for words and phrases > that appeal to people on a narrative level but have no support from > reality. AKA folk etymology. > > Example: POSH. Widely believed to be from "Port Outwards, Starboard > Home" from cruise liners, because that's how you get the best shade. > > Ignoring the facts that the word predates cruise liners by some time, > and that the concept only works for certain crossings. > > And some of our more, erm, robust Anglo-Saxonisms have > plausible-sounding but erroneous origin stories as acronyms: there is no > historical evidence that anyone was ever put in the stocks with a sign > proclaiming "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", for example, whereas the > Germanic origins of the word are understood. From tzbarasc at lasierra.edu Fri Jan 7 14:21:49 2022 From: tzbarasc at lasierra.edu (Tony Zbaraschuk) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 08:21:49 -0600 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: _Nona the Ninth_ is not out yet. Very much looking forward to it. There were going to be three; it has now grown to four. I wouldn't mind more stuff in this universe. Tony Z On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 4:47 AM Marc Wilson wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:25:09 -0600, Tony Zbaraschuk via Lois-Bujold > wrote: > > >I can strongly recommend _Gideon the Ninth_ et sequelae. Do _not_ read > >_Harrow the Ninth_ first, however. > > Is the third one out yet? > -- > Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the > roof and gets stuck. > - George Carlin > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to tzbarasc at lasierra.edu > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Tony Zbaraschuk Bookworm, talker, learner Et vocavit Deus, "Fiat lux!" From lmb at matija.com Fri Jan 7 14:22:38 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 14:22:38 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> Message-ID: <2d2a8510-3b64-7a70-abb1-598e508f9364@matija.com> On 07/01/2022 12:13, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > I sometimes wonder if people who believe in free will, ever when through puberty. > > A simple chemical change and _everything_ changes in a preestablished pattern. Aside that in my experience, the smarter a person is, the more they are able to tell you why it is perfectly logical to do what their hormones tell them to do. However, on the other hand, if they are forewarned, the smarter the person is, the more they are able to control their impulses by recognizing it is the hormones talking. I'll reference again the book "thinking: fast and slow", (https://smile.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman-ebook) which is recommended reading to anybody who gets hired a Google SRE (and I recommend it to anybody working in an OPS role). With practice, you can recognize situations where your feelings and/or hormones (including, but not limited to, Adrenaline) are forcing a decision which really warrants further thought, and you can make yourself think things through. Fast thinking is great when you move a branch and suddenly find yourself face to face with a tiger, but once you're out of the split-second-action needed situation, taking a few seconds to think through your options is really beneficial. Even if you do it while running. It gets easier with practice. Having said that, some people relish being able to say "I was acting without thinking"/"I could do no other" when they get caught doing something they shouldn't have been doing. From tzbarasc at lasierra.edu Fri Jan 7 14:29:49 2022 From: tzbarasc at lasierra.edu (Tony Zbaraschuk) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 08:29:49 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <6FCAE522-4206-48B9-87AC-53D0F15088AD@brazee.net> References: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> <6FCAE522-4206-48B9-87AC-53D0F15088AD@brazee.net> Message-ID: Fahrenheit's original scale was based on the idea that the temperature of the human body was 100, which made a convenient point. (This turned out to be a slight measurement error, just like Dionysius Exiguus' attempt to set the calendar at the birth-year of Christ involved a slight miscalculation.) And he tried to set the zero point as low as he could go, which involved the freezing point of a brine mixture, which turned out not to have any particular significance. Tony Z On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 8:13 AM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:02 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > > > Fahrenheit does make a *certain* amount of sense: > > > > > > 0 100 > > -------------+-----------+----------+ > > Fahrenheit | too cold | too hot | > > -------------+-----------+----------+ > > Centigrade | cold | dead | > > -------------+-----------+----------+ > > Kelvin | dead | dead | > > -------------+-----------+?????+ > > Only if there?s something special about the number 100. > > (I think there is something special about that number when I play golf, > but would change my goal if I got halfway good). > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to tzbarasc at lasierra.edu > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Tony Zbaraschuk Bookworm, talker, learner Et vocavit Deus, "Fiat lux!" From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 15:19:42 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 10:19:42 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <2C9D48A1-952F-451C-ACD2-15C17E39A278@brazee.net> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <2C9D48A1-952F-451C-ACD2-15C17E39A278@brazee.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 8:32 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 6, 2022, at 5:51 PM, Sylvia McIvers > wrote: > > > >> Note the instant response from all sorts of Christians who are eager to > >> point out that "Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not > >> murder", restricting to more specific meaning because they want the more > >> general meaning still allowed. > >> > > > > > > Murder Not is a good translation. > > It?s the meaning that the powerful prefer. > -- > Why is that? From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 15:24:45 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 10:24:45 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 5:55 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > The operative part was "[they are] restricting to more specific meaning > because they want the more general meaning still allowed." > > In other words, a number of Christians (by no means all, of course), > want murder forbidden by commandments, but other killing (death penalty, > war) still allowed. > > I'm sorry if it was not clear. > > Thanks for explaining. It's easy to use shorthand in an argument, when everyone knows most of the argument already. Then the newb comes in and needs explanations... But going to war is necessary sometimes, especially when someone else has attacked a country. Weird karma - my grandpa, a nice Jewish boy from Poland, immigrated to New York, joined the army to fight Hitler... and was sent to the Pacific Theater. So technically he never got to fight Hitler. We have his naturalization papers, "stationed in the Philippine Islands." Sylvia From kawyle at att.net Fri Jan 7 15:36:54 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 15:36:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> Message-ID: <1469428618.2111504.1641569814962@mail.yahoo.com> My father, whose immediate family barely made it out of Berlin in 1938 (most of the extended family didn't escape), managed to get himself drafted (as a German national and thus an "enemy alien," he couldn't enlist) to fight the Nazis. Unlike Sylvia's grandpa, he did get to do so -- and then, after Germany surrendered, volunteered to head to the Pacific Theater. The subsequent Japanese surrender may well have saved his life and led to my existence. Karen On Friday, January 7, 2022, 10:25:07 AM EST, Sylvia McIvers wrote: Weird karma - my grandpa, a nice Jewish boy from Poland, immigrated to New York, joined the army to fight Hitler...? and was sent to the Pacific Theater.? So technically he never got to fight Hitler. We have his naturalization papers, "stationed in the Philippine Islands." Sylvia From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 16:38:46 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 09:38:46 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <2C9D48A1-952F-451C-ACD2-15C17E39A278@brazee.net> Message-ID: > On Jan 7, 2022, at 8:19 AM, Sylvia McIvers wrote: > >>> Murder Not is a good translation. >> >> It?s the meaning that the powerful prefer. >> -- >> > > Why is that? Because the powerful want to be able to define what killing is acceptable and what killing isn?t. If the state tells us to kill, that isn?t murder. From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 16:41:18 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 09:41:18 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> Message-ID: <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Sylvia McIvers wrote: > > Weird karma - my grandpa, a nice Jewish boy from Poland, immigrated to New > York, joined the army to fight Hitler... and was sent to the Pacific > Theater. So technically he never got to fight Hitler. Fredric Pohl didn?t need to fight in WWII. He lived in an area of NYC that had lots of Chinese volunteers so he wouldn?t have been drafted. But eventually he volunteered anyway. The army trained him for cold weather fighting, removed all of his fillings and replaced them with fillings designed for cold weather?and sent him to North Africa... From kawyle at att.net Fri Jan 7 16:44:29 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 16:44:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> Message-ID: <986471832.2136369.1641573869026@mail.yahoo.com> My father would have loved that story! It so fits the army as he knew it. For example, he was 5'6" and around 130 pounds soaking wet, with no sense of direction to speak of -- so they gave him a particularly heavy weapon and made him a scout. Karen On Friday, January 7, 2022, 11:41:36 AM EST, Howard Brazee wrote: Fredric Pohl didn?t need to fight in WWII.? He lived in an area of NYC that had lots of Chinese volunteers so he wouldn?t have been drafted.? But eventually he volunteered anyway.? The army trained him for cold weather fighting, removed all of his fillings and replaced them with fillings designed for cold weather?and sent him to North Africa... -- From lmb at matija.com Fri Jan 7 17:19:21 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 17:19:21 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> Message-ID: On 07/01/2022 16:41, Howard Brazee wrote: >> On Jan 7, 2022, at 8:24 AM, Sylvia McIvers wrote: >> >> Weird karma - my grandpa, a nice Jewish boy from Poland, immigrated to New >> York, joined the army to fight Hitler... and was sent to the Pacific >> Theater. So technically he never got to fight Hitler. > Fredric Pohl didn?t need to fight in WWII. He lived in an area of NYC that had lots of Chinese volunteers so he wouldn?t have been drafted. But eventually he volunteered anyway. The army trained him for cold weather fighting, removed all of his fillings and replaced them with fillings designed for cold weather?and sent him to North Africa... I did not know that, but I remember he was pretty scathing (in the foreword to "The Space Merchants") about what the army did to Kornbluth. I forget the details, it has been a long time since I read it. I think he blamed them for either causing or exacerbating the heart problem that eventually killed Kornbluth. From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 17:48:36 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 10:48:36 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> Message-ID: > On Jan 7, 2022, at 10:19 AM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > >> Fredric Pohl didn?t need to fight in WWII. He lived in an area of NYC that had lots of Chinese volunteers so he wouldn?t have been drafted. But eventually he volunteered anyway. The army trained him for cold weather fighting, removed all of his fillings and replaced them with fillings designed for cold weather?and sent him to North Africa... > I did not know that, but I remember he was pretty scathing (in the foreword to "The Space Merchants") about what the army did to Kornbluth. I forget the details, it has been a long time since I read it. I think he blamed them for either causing or exacerbating the heart problem that eventually killed Kornbluth. His autobiography was the wonderfully named ?The Way The Future Was?. From mark at allums.email Fri Jan 7 18:21:24 2022 From: mark at allums.email (Mark Allums) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 12:21:24 -0600 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> Message-ID: <4b5f1ac5-bb35-71a5-8dd9-35b0f6982f03@allums.email> On 1/7/2022 6:37 AM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > On 07/01/2022 11:57, Raymond Collins wrote: >> I've been thinking,? that the earliest form of communication between >> organisms of a single species has been pheromones.? And that, despite the >> fact we have evolved our ability to communicate verbally with each other. >> It's pheromones that affect or metabolism and eventually our behavior. >> Imagine 'Romeo and Juliet' without pheromones. >> Romeo:? "Hi I'm Romeo, " >> Juliet: "Juliet, " >> Romeo: "Our parents are douchbags," >> Juliet:? "You got that right!" >> Romeo:? "well catch you later, Mercutio's taking me out to a boar fight!" >> Juliet:? "sure, whatever, " >> And doeth end "Romeo and Juliet" without? pheromones. > > It is said that the shortest conversation in a specific dialect of > Slovenian is > > Q:"A b"? > > A:"B" > > Loosely translated, that is: Q:"Would [you like to]?" A:"[I] would". > > As you say, phermones make some conversations ... briefer. > That's HORMONES. Pheromones are for insects. Pheromones in mammals and especially humans are controversial. Mark A. From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 19:52:24 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 14:52:24 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:02 PM quietann wrote: > > This is a harsh reality, but potential parents are not stupid for looking > at this. > No, indeed not. But people are more unwilling than ever to say that they wouldn't want to give birth to a Down's Syndrome baby, much less raise one. Yet they are quietly aborting such fetuses. The difference between action and admission is what's so very amusing to a cynic such as myself. Matt G. From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 19:58:25 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 14:58:25 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 3:56 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > And no, "eugenics" is not the more general term. > Wrong. > > I refer you to https://www.britannica.com/science/eugenics-genetics > which makes it pretty clear that eugenics, from it's very start, was not > about personal choice, but about influencing other people, either > through persuasion to select better mates ("good eugenics") ...and thus personal choice. I wish I could say that I was disappointed. But, you're a Grabnar. Matt "the definite article, you might say" G. From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 20:00:42 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 15:00:42 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 7:52 PM Sylvia McIvers wrote: > > Murder Not is a good translation. > I'm told that "unlawful killing" better conveys the sense of the original Hebrew. Considering that the tradition in question mandated execution for disobedient children, it's quite clear that our society's moral standards weren't involved. Matt G. From proto at panix.com Fri Jan 7 20:26:21 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 15:26:21 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 7, 2022, at 7:43 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:54:41 -0500, WalterStuartBushell > > wrote: > >> WSB cod-etymolog???????? > > When people make up seemingly-plausible origins for words and phrases > that appeal to people on a narrative level but have no support from > reality. AKA folk etymology. > > > -- > For most of history, Anonymous was a woman. - Virginia Woolf > Is that sig an example of cod-etymology? ? Of course our planet has its mood swings ? it is, after all, bipolar. From proto at panix.com Fri Jan 7 20:39:49 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 15:39:49 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> Message-ID: <9C39B56F-2A3F-4589-BCF4-123FDB16C9FE@panix.com> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 11:41 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: > > > Fredric Pohl didn?t need to fight in WWII. He lived in an area of NYC that had lots of Chinese volunteers so he wouldn?t have been drafted. But eventually he volunteered anyway. The army trained him for cold weather fighting, removed all of his fillings and replaced them with fillings designed for cold weather?and sent him to North Africa? If we hadn?t dropped the BOMB, would we have resorted to accepting Chinese from China as volunteers. They certainly would have been motivated, might be hard to restrain them from atrocities, and we might not have tried to hard. ? ?That which doesn?t make us stronger kills us.? From proto at panix.com Fri Jan 7 20:46:52 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 15:46:52 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> Message-ID: <2C73136F-B403-492B-8557-839B1F5BAF34@panix.com> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 2:52 PM, Matthew George wrote: > > No, indeed not. But people are more unwilling than ever to say that they > wouldn't want to give birth to a Down's Syndrome baby, much less raise > one. Yet they are quietly aborting such fetuses. > > The difference between action and admission is what's so very amusing to a > cynic such as myself. > > Matt G. That?s not cynicism. That?s realism. Humans are generally better at talking the talk, than walking the walk. OTOH, hypocrisy is the tithe vice pays to virtue. ? Sig intentionally left blank. From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 21:12:52 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 16:12:52 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 7:22 AM WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > I sometimes wonder if people who believe in free will, ever when through > puberty. > It's a straightforward example of magical thinking. Logic and reason have nothing to do with it. "My choices are consistent and yet not subject to deterministic relationships." Matt G. From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 21:18:24 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 16:18:24 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> Message-ID: Humans don't have pheromones, although they used to. The vomeronasal organ was discovered relatively recently - it's completely inactive and the genes coding for its receptors are heavily damaged, indicating that they haven't been maintained by selection for a very long time. But if you expose humans to high concentrations of the substances that the vomeronasal organ was once sensitive to, their nervous systems respond accordingly. No one uses this for behavior control because humans don't want to even consider the possibility that hardwired chemical signals can direct their behavior, and the sorts of people most interested in controlling others also tend to be dirt-ignorant. It's just a matter of time. Matt G. From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 21:19:50 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 14:19:50 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> Message-ID: <94CF56AA-8EA2-472D-A6A0-7D4CC116D9A4@brazee.net> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 2:12 PM, Matthew George wrote: > >> I sometimes wonder if people who believe in free will, ever when through >> puberty. >> > > It's a straightforward example of magical thinking. Logic and reason have > nothing to do with it. "My choices are consistent and yet not subject to > deterministic relationships.? I find science fiction that postulates that every choice actually happens in some universe or another, my response is that I have no interest in such a nihilist concept. From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 21:24:52 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 16:24:52 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <94CF56AA-8EA2-472D-A6A0-7D4CC116D9A4@brazee.net> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> <94CF56AA-8EA2-472D-A6A0-7D4CC116D9A4@brazee.net> Message-ID: It's not science fiction, but a real-world hypothesis attempting to explain quantum effects, which postulates that all potential outcomes occur. The "Many-Worlds" hypothesis may or may not be correct, but it's not fictional. Matt "possible except in the sense in which it is inevitable" G. From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 21:28:36 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 16:28:36 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <945F0EBE-9A56-45A9-A104-033888642AB4@comcast.net> References: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> <945F0EBE-9A56-45A9-A104-033888642AB4@comcast.net> Message-ID: How do children learn the meanings of words and phrases without first having words and phrases to convey those meanings? That's precisely how the Tamarians learned the stories that made up the backbone of their language: the same way we learn our own languages. Matt "the river Temarc. In winter" G. From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 21:28:13 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 14:28:13 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> Message-ID: <94C5978E-3B1A-4E6A-8D0A-8BF64C9D97B9@brazee.net> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Matthew George wrote: > > No one uses this for behavior control because humans don't want to even > consider the possibility that hardwired chemical signals can direct their > behavior, and the sorts of people most interested in controlling others > also tend to be dirt-ignorant. It's just a matter of time. More than just chemicals. The physical parts of the brain are significant, as is illustrated by Phineas P. Gage. If trauma could change personality, then just how the brain grew should do the same thing. From saffronrose at me.com Fri Jan 7 21:28:40 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 13:28:40 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C0A09E9-FE45-4CB8-81F7-E24052429E7A@me.com> On Jan 7, 2022, at 3:07 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > ?On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 14:34:30 -0800, "A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold" > wrote: > >> That would be so wonderful, to know when it?s getting used. >> >> When I?ve donated multiple boxes of food at a local charitable organization, the first box is usually getting packed up to go before the last one?s unloaded. Immediate gratification! >> >> I?m just trying to avoid waste, and it helps others, so win-win. >> >> BTW, a silent listee suggests donating seasoning, because that comes so rarely. > > Some of the "food banks" actually prefer cash, as they can then (bulk) > buy what's needed. But that doesn't suit the publicity needs of the > supermarkets nearly so much. 2nd Harvest prefers cash from individual donors, but will sometimes come to harvest & take tree fruit. I believe the other listee donates at a smaller agency: certainly the one I donate to is smaller, and food isn?t the only thing they take. They have a literacy program, and other community services. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 7 21:29:43 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 14:29:43 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> <94CF56AA-8EA2-472D-A6A0-7D4CC116D9A4@brazee.net> Message-ID: <132605F7-2DDA-4813-88D7-37AA1DD26068@brazee.net> > On Jan 7, 2022, at 2:24 PM, Matthew George wrote: > > It's not science fiction, but a real-world hypothesis attempting to explain > quantum effects, which postulates that all potential outcomes occur. The > "Many-Worlds" hypothesis may or may not be correct, but it's not fictional. If it?s not real, it?s fictional. But it?s the nihilist aspect that turns me off. As with predestination, it says whatever actions I make don?t matter. From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 21:33:43 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 16:33:43 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <132605F7-2DDA-4813-88D7-37AA1DD26068@brazee.net> References: <07AD1A41-F71D-4E38-BC92-906948356840@hamilton.edu> <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> <8F27247E-DC3A-45C7-B307-3812E2051F25@panix.com> <94CF56AA-8EA2-472D-A6A0-7D4CC116D9A4@brazee.net> <132605F7-2DDA-4813-88D7-37AA1DD26068@brazee.net> Message-ID: On the contrary, your actions certainly matter. But your choices don't exclude possibilities or restrict the nature of the world around you. You are not an external force exempt from the world's rules, but part of the world and its behavior. Matt "there is no outside to existence" G. From rgmolpus at flash.net Fri Jan 7 19:29:28 2022 From: rgmolpus at flash.net (Richard G. Molpus) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 19:29:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> Message-ID: <894293794.281102.1641583768429@mail.yahoo.com> Kornbluth was a GI and in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge. He injured himself by jumping down from a truck (some say while carrying a .30 cal machine gun), in either case being in the Ardennes in winter is a bad idea.??His refusal to do simple Healthcare things, like brush his teeth, added to his later medical troubles.? We now know (suspect) that tooth decay can trigger lots of other problems. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 11:48 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: > On Jan 7, 2022, at 10:19 AM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > >> Fredric Pohl didn?t need to fight in WWII.? He lived in an area of NYC that had lots of Chinese volunteers so he wouldn?t have been drafted.? But eventually he volunteered anyway.? The army trained him for cold weather fighting, removed all of his fillings and replaced them with fillings designed for cold weather?and sent him to North Africa... > I did not know that, but I remember he was pretty scathing (in the foreword to "The Space Merchants") about what the army did to Kornbluth. I forget the details, it has been a long time since I read it. I think he blamed them for either causing or exacerbating the heart problem that eventually killed Kornbluth. His autobiography was the wonderfully named ?The Way The Future Was?. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rgmolpus at flash.net Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 06:42:01 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 00:42:01 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <894293794.281102.1641583768429@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <1c2ff731-c7e0-82ef-6269-e091dd38b6ae@matija.com> <6FE31454-905C-45FF-9C9C-BBB7AD8843EE@brazee.net> <894293794.281102.1641583768429@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: During a Archon convention in St. Louis I spent several hours talking with Fred Pohl talking about the Futureins, the first World Con, Heechees and the future. It's I moment I cherish. He was very approachable especially to a young obnoxious know-it-all. On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 6:32 PM Richard G. Molpus wrote: > Kornbluth was a GI and in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge. He > injured himself by jumping down from a truck (some say while carrying a .30 > cal machine gun), in either case being in the Ardennes in winter is a bad > idea. His refusal to do simple Healthcare things, like brush his teeth, > added to his later medical troubles. We now know (suspect) that tooth > decay can trigger lots of other problems. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 11:48 AM, Howard Brazee > wrote: > > > On Jan 7, 2022, at 10:19 AM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > >> Fredric Pohl didn?t need to fight in WWII. He lived in an area of NYC > that had lots of Chinese volunteers so he wouldn?t have been drafted. But > eventually he volunteered anyway. The army trained him for cold weather > fighting, removed all of his fillings and replaced them with fillings > designed for cold weather?and sent him to North Africa... > > I did not know that, but I remember he was pretty scathing (in the > foreword to "The Space Merchants") about what the army did to Kornbluth. I > forget the details, it has been a long time since I read it. I think he > blamed them for either causing or exacerbating the heart problem that > eventually killed Kornbluth. > > His autobiography was the wonderfully named ?The Way The Future Was?. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rgmolpus at flash.net > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From lmb at matija.com Sat Jan 8 10:38:58 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 10:38:58 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> Message-ID: <4c0b9c3c-eb74-e17d-8ead-d44b27068eb1@matija.com> On 07/01/2022 19:58, Matthew George wrote: > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 3:56 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > >> And no, "eugenics" is not the more general term. >> > Wrong. My proof was the article on eugenics I linked from Encyclopedia Britannica, your proof is (checks notes) "Wrong.". Wow, that sure showed me. >> I refer you to https://www.britannica.com/science/eugenics-genetics >> which makes it pretty clear that eugenics, from it's very start, was not >> about personal choice, but about influencing other people, either >> through persuasion to select better mates ("good eugenics") > > ...and thus personal choice. Is your reading comprehension naturally that bad, or are you deliberately obtuse? Influencing the personal choice of other people is not the same thing as as making a personal choice for yourself. For a parallel, attempting suicide may or may not be a crime (but it is that person's choice), but talk someone else into committing suicide, and you can be prosecuted for manslaughter or worse. > I wish I could say that I was disappointed. But, you're a Grabnar. Aaand there's? the body of your proof. An ad-hominem. Because that's the best you can do. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 12:49:19 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 12:49:19 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: quietann I think you're trying to lead us into US politics once again (STOP IT, WILLIAM), but I'll respond to the scientific part -- which is to say that "accuracy" is complicated when it comes to genetic tests. Gwynne: There must be some code words that I don't recognise, because I can't see a political link in William's post. To answer his question, my mind leaps about all the time, starts writing stories, puts ideas together, often puts it in a Barrayaran context, gets interested in some side reference and loses half an hour to google-wiki and other research. Then I remember something I was supposed to do... and there goes my day. There's often several things running in my head at the same time - conversations with characters in stories, speculation about politics or shopping lists, or whatever... there's only one person who can make all the random thoughts focus, and stop for a while. But that's a whole other story. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 13:01:25 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:01:25 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Karen Hunt wrote: > Question: She says that Barrayar is an exploration of the cost of > parenthood through six parallel couples. I can't identify the couples. > Here are the ones I can think of: > Clearly: > Cordelia and Aral > Kou and Drou > Maybe: > Alys and Padma > Kareen and Serg > Kareen and Vidal > The other is Bothari and the replicator. Quoted from the Author's Afterword in Cordelia's Honor: Not just Aral and Cordelia, but all the other supporting couples took up and played their symphonic variations on the theme, exploring its complexities: Kou and Drou, Padma and Alys, Piotr and his dead wife, Vordarian and Serg and Kareen, and most strangely and SFnally, Bothari and the uterine replicator. Gwynne: I would have added Ekaterin and Tien to the list; parenthood brought Ekaterin a huge love for her child, but it was a tether that limited her life and choices for a long time. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 13:08:45 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:08:45 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05/01/2022 13:49, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > I just got another phishing attack. This one was promising to have my student loans forgiven if I contacted them and gave them information. Since I paid off my student loan of $150 in 1968 while in the Air Force, I had no problem ignoring it. Gwynne: For the last few months I've had more of them than ever. But they go in waves, and follow fashions. A while ago it was all bitcoins. Then it was ladies from foreign shores who were so eager to meet me (and, at the same time, products that would help my ability to satisfy said ladies, if I was male.) Lately it's the 'dear friend I need to tell you...' ones. And people needing help with all their money. Presumably they make enough money out of them to make it worth while, but I can't believe that anyone still falls for them. There's all the old favourites - banks that need to check my information (Um... don't bank with you, sorry.) Parcel deliveries that I have to talk to them about (sorry, nothing on order right now.) 'Block' or 'notify of phishing scam' get a lot of work. Oh, and I love the psychics who have something important to tell me. Sorry, Pet - if you were any good, you'd know that you have zero chance of getting money out of me. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 13:17:18 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:17:18 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Donation was Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: "Gordon Jackson" I donated when younger but by the time I left NZ to come to UK was no longer permitted to do so due to having lived in the UK for a while during the 1980s. A physician I mentioned that to here in the UK asked if it was due to potential exposure to HIV but it wasn't, it was due to potential exposure to Mad Cow Disease. I looked it up and the restriction is still in place. If you lived in the UK, France or Republic of Ireland for >6 months between 1980 and 1996 you cannot donate blood in NZ. Cheers Gordon Gwynne: Australia has limits on donors who've been in the UK at that time, too, and for the same reason. They akso ask if you've been in Papua New Guinea, and a few other places. (It varies now and then.) And then there's the list of activities; have you been to a dentist, had a tattoo, piercings, sex workers, partners who.... there's a list of questions, and I work down it ticking 'No.... no.... no.... ' And then I wonder if my life is too boring. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 13:21:26 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:21:26 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gwynne: Another problem when your mind leaps about: I'll be watching some crime show, and the detectives are suspicious of one of the suspects because they asked or didn't ask certain questions, or had particular knowledge, etc. And to me, it seemed like a perfectly obvious question, not guilty knowledge. Because if X happened, then Y must have ... etc. I can see the connections - but leaping to that idea is apparently suspect. So if I ever get arrested for something, please assume I'm innocent, I was just thinking too fast. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 13:23:07 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:23:07 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 5, 2022, at 10:08 AM, Eric Oppen wrote: > ?I'm working on my 14th gallon of donated blood. Gwynne: Do you mean donated BY you or TO you? And... just what are you doing with it? From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 13:35:17 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:35:17 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: quietann OK. There's this little thing called sacrifice. Are you aware of how many marriages fail when a severely disabled child is born? Or the general lack of support services for these children, once they are adults? Massachusetts' waiting list for adult group homes was about 5 years long as of a few years ago. Aging parents who know they will not be there forever for their adult children, or were unable to continue caring for them? This is a harsh reality, but potential parents are not stupid for looking at this. Ann Gwynne: At one of the nursing homes where I volunteered (pre-COVID) I met Julie. She's 66. She's been a resident in that nursing home since she was 24. Forty-two years. Her mother was unable to care for her and there was nowhere else for her to go. Another friend of mine almost crippled herself with back injuries from lifting a disabled son, before she finally had to find a place that could take him. Care for a child with high needs has a huge effect on the parents, on other children, on family resources, on the children who aren't born because the parents can't care for another child, and as you say - the heart-tearing worry of what happens after they're gone. It's a desperately sad situation. From kawyle at att.net Sat Jan 8 13:49:30 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:49:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1084240590.135172.1641649770227@mail.yahoo.com> I've encountered similar situations, though not in the criminal justice context. I remember one in particular, in college. I was talking a class (computer programming, I believe, back when students in such classes were primarily engineers). Most of the work of teaching the class and grading assignments was done by a T.A. (teaching assistant). At some point I heard from other students that the T.A. had given them zeros for work they'd actually turned in. I fretted that this would happen to me, and proactively asked him whether he'd received my latest assignment. He'd managed to misplace mine as well, and accused me of trying to put one over on him. I ended up making a tearful call to the professor, who fortunately believed me. Karen On Saturday, January 8, 2022, 08:21:40 AM EST, Gwynne Powell wrote: Gwynne: Another problem when your mind leaps about: I'll be watching some crime show, and the detectives are suspicious of one of the suspects because they asked or didn't ask certain questions, or had particular knowledge, etc. And to me, it seemed like a perfectly obvious question, not guilty knowledge. Because if X happened, then Y must have ... etc. I can see the connections - but leaping to that idea is apparently suspect. So if I ever get arrested for something, please assume I'm innocent, I was just thinking too fast. -- From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 13:49:44 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:49:44 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex Kwan wrote: > On Jan 5, 2022, at 19:26, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >> The only trouble I had with Darmok was that I couldn't understand how >> children could learn the background stories behind the phrases. > Osmosis. You learn what the phrase is supposed to mean, then later the > stories. When I was growing up, there was a television animated short > program explaining the story behind the various phrases. Other languages > have the same thing, too, just not as much. For example, most kids in > the West learn that Eden means utopia and only later learn about the > biblical story behind it. Gwynne: It doesn't work as well as you'd think. When I was working with kids I was often surprised by things that they didn't know; information that isn't taught because 'everyone knows...' And they don't. There's plenty of adults who suddenly find out that something they'd assumed to be true, or the meaning of some expression they'd known for ages, was totally different. We have a lot of code words that are used without really noticing, and we expect everyone to pick up on it. I think I've used this example before: when AIDS first hit they had ads on TV coyly telling us to 'use protection' to avoid getting AIDS. I heard a ten-year -old telling someone that he wasn't going to get AIDS because he used protection - he had sunglasses. They were for protection. He had no idea of the particular sexual connotations of 'protection' in certain contexts. Another one is 'touching'. "Did the man touch you?" "Yes." Yes, he did - he touched the child's hand when they held hands to cross the road. The child has no idea that there's a different meaning in that conversation - and it is REALLY important for the person talking to the child to be aware of that. Children pick up a lot of the sayings, and codes, and meanings - but it's surprising how many people get into adulthood before they find out certain meanings. When you add cultural differences from country to country, I'm amazed that we can communicate as well as we do. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 14:18:02 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 14:18:02 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: catherine muir This relates to an argument I had some time ago at college. What is a ?word?? - I would argue that a great cook will think in tastes, mentally putting ingredients together. In the same way, a perfumier may think in scent; a musician will undoubtedly think in musical sounds, phrases, even in the particular sound of an instrument (I certainly do!) An artist may, for all I know, think in colour, or line, or shape, or texture. Gwynne: I think in words. But I also think in pictures; images of people, places, pets, etc - without the words attached. And sometimes in images, but more like a 3D movie. It's very confusing in there, sometimes. On the bright side, it's never dull, there's always something happening. From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 8 14:24:40 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 07:24:40 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 8, 2022, at 7:18 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > This relates to an argument I had some time ago at college. > What is a ?word?? - I would argue that a great cook will think in tastes, mentally putting ingredients together. In the same way, a perfumier may think in scent; a musician will undoubtedly think in musical sounds, phrases, even in the particular sound of an instrument (I certainly do!) An artist may, for all I know, think in colour, or line, or shape, or texture. A vocabulary is useful though. Look at all of the words oenophiles learn to describe the tastes of wine. This isn?t just for communicating with others, it helps them taste the wine to have the words. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 14:28:54 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 14:28:54 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Howard Brazee > Murder Not is a good translation. It?s the meaning that the powerful prefer. Gwynne: It also refers to the state of the soul. There's a big difference between killing and murder. To decide to commit murder is a terrible stain on the soul. The Bible, after all, is concerned to a pretty high degree with the care and maintenance of souls - so it can draw a distinction between two similar acts that are done for very different reasons, because the reasons matter. Yes, there's plenty of what-ifs, and we all have our own lines. But it is an important distinction. That doesn't mean that it's always used properly. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 14:34:30 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 14:34:30 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Raymond Collins I've been thinking, that the earliest form of communication between organisms of a single species has been pheromones. And that, despite the fact we have evolved our ability to communicate verbally with each other. It's pheromones that affect or metabolism and eventually our behavior. Imagine 'Romeo and Juliet' without pheromones.... Gwynne: (Loved the Romeo and Juliet retelling.) Communication also uses facial expression, gestures, body language, and intonation. All of which are lost when we use the internet, which is probably the cause of a lot of arguments online - just simple lack of communication. From fred.fredex at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 14:40:41 2022 From: fred.fredex at gmail.com (Fred) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 09:40:41 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've recently had several scam emails offering cheap life or household insurance. The one from yesterday had an unsubscribelink that wasn't a link...tapping it did nothing visible. On Sat, Jan 8, 2022, 08:08 Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > On 05/01/2022 13:49, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > I just got another phishing attack. This one was promising to have my > student loans forgiven if I contacted them and gave them information. Since > I paid off my student loan of $150 in 1968 while in the Air Force, I had no > problem ignoring it. > > Gwynne: For the last few months I've had more of them than ever. > But they go in waves, and follow fashions. A while ago it was all > bitcoins. Then it was ladies from foreign shores who were so eager > to meet me (and, at the same time, products that would help my > ability to satisfy said ladies, if I was male.) Lately it's the 'dear > friend > I need to tell you...' ones. And people needing help with all their money. > Presumably they make enough money out of them to make it worth > while, but I can't believe that anyone still falls for them. > > There's all the old favourites - banks that need to check my information > (Um... don't bank with you, sorry.) Parcel deliveries that I have to > talk to them about (sorry, nothing on order right now.) 'Block' or > 'notify of phishing scam' get a lot of work. > > Oh, and I love the psychics who have something important to tell me. > Sorry, Pet - if you were any good, you'd know that you have zero chance > of getting money out of me. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to fred.fredex at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 14:42:10 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 14:42:10 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 7, 2022, at 6:57 AM, Raymond Collins wrote: > I've been thinking, that the earliest form of communication between > organisms of a single species has been pheromones. And that, despite the > fact we have evolved our ability to communicate verbally with each other. > It's pheromones that affect or metabolism and eventually our behavior. > Imagine 'Romeo and Juliet' without pheromones. > Romeo: "Hi I'm Romeo, " > Juliet: "Juliet, " > Romeo: "Our parents are douchbags," > Juliet: "You got that right!" > Romeo: "well catch you later, Mercutio's taking me out to a boar fight!" > Juliet: "sure, whatever, " > And doeth end ?Romeo and Juliet" without pheromones. Gwynne: Totally irrelevant side note: One of my pet hates (and a source of a lot of private hilarity at times) is the way people use 'Romeo and Juliet' to refer to a romance between two people, or characters. I seriously wonder how many people know how the play ends. From dbernat at gol.com Sat Jan 8 14:43:51 2022 From: dbernat at gol.com (dbernat) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2022 23:43:51 +0900 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fred wrote: > I've recently had several scam emails offering cheap life or household > insurance. The one from yesterday had an unsubscribelink that wasn't a > link...tapping it did nothing visible. But clicking may have placed malware on your computer From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 14:52:04 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 14:52:04 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <4c0b9c3c-eb74-e17d-8ead-d44b27068eb1@matija.com> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <4c0b9c3c-eb74-e17d-8ead-d44b27068eb1@matija.com> Message-ID: The Cetans are practicing eugenics with their designer babies. The Star Cr?che decides who will reproduce. They have different tools but the same goal as Dr. Mengele, elimination of the unfit. I think that Miles speculated on them someday believing that they were a different species. My personal belief, take it anyway you wish, is that Eugenics is a disgusting philosophy and the stain that it is still around is a blot on humanity. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 3:38:58 AM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Cc: Matija Grabnar Subject: Re: [LMB] Leaking On 07/01/2022 19:58, Matthew George wrote: > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 3:56 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > >> And no, "eugenics" is not the more general term. >> > Wrong. My proof was the article on eugenics I linked from Encyclopedia Britannica, your proof is (checks notes) "Wrong.". Wow, that sure showed me. >> I refer you to https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fscience%2Feugenics-genetics&data=04%7C01%7C%7C679d07e97170409accb708d9d2931df0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772351570812627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=fmgY555UBaQFk%2FP71UY7q%2BlL6GvCU86%2FBMygR2UdihI%3D&reserved=0 >> which makes it pretty clear that eugenics, from it's very start, was not >> about personal choice, but about influencing other people, either >> through persuasion to select better mates ("good eugenics") > > ...and thus personal choice. Is your reading comprehension naturally that bad, or are you deliberately obtuse? Influencing the personal choice of other people is not the same thing as as making a personal choice for yourself. For a parallel, attempting suicide may or may not be a crime (but it is that person's choice), but talk someone else into committing suicide, and you can be prosecuted for manslaughter or worse. > I wish I could say that I was disappointed. But, you're a Grabnar. Aaand there's the body of your proof. An ad-hominem. Because that's the best you can do. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C679d07e97170409accb708d9d2931df0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772351570812627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=KpaIW3DFpDxctVOnu56tveY8KSumtXwfoFWAwyV1vOw%3D&reserved=0 From domelouann at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 14:57:57 2022 From: domelouann at gmail.com (Louann Miller) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 08:57:57 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 8:43 AM dbernat wrote: > Fred wrote: > > > I've recently had several scam emails offering cheap life or household > > insurance. The one from yesterday had an unsubscribelink that wasn't a > > link...tapping it did nothing visible. > > But clicking may have placed malware on your computer > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to domelouann at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From domelouann at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 15:01:26 2022 From: domelouann at gmail.com (Louann Miller) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 09:01:26 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 8:57 AM Louann Miller wrote: > On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 8:43 AM dbernat wrote: > >> Fred wrote: >> >> > The one from yesterday had an unsubscribelink that wasn't a >> > link...tapping it did nothing visible. >> >> But clicking may have placed malware on your computer. >> > Sorry about the misfire immediately above. I was going to agree with not clicking a link, although I'd only been thinking that confirms for them that you are a live person who reads this e-mail address. I keep Windows Defender and the free version of Avira running on my desktop, and I haven't had a problem in ages with viruses. Louann From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 15:14:10 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 15:14:10 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors Message-ID: Emma is playing her first game in the YMCA volleyball league today and Brian sent me a picture. We couldn't attend because of restrictions. Her team colors are black and white. That got me thinking about team colors in professional sports and if there's a link to the district colors on Barrayar. Perhaps it has come full circle from colors on the battlefield to team colors and then back to the battlefield. The only NBA team to use brown is the Celtics. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From dbernat at gol.com Sat Jan 8 15:17:24 2022 From: dbernat at gol.com (dbernat) Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2022 00:17:24 +0900 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3daed19df699e08c44f201c3ac4f6a26@gol.com> Louann Miller wrote: > I keep Windows Defender and the free version of Avira running on my > desktop, and I haven't had a problem in ages with viruses. Avast Antivirus Malware bytes Zone Alarm Each handle a different aspect of security. Plus checking your computer for open ports at Shields Up From baur at chello.at Sat Jan 8 15:20:22 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:20:22 +0100 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: <3daed19df699e08c44f201c3ac4f6a26@gol.com> References: <3daed19df699e08c44f201c3ac4f6a26@gol.com> Message-ID: i personally like Kaspersky servus markus Am 08.01.2022 um 16:17 schrieb dbernat: > Louann Miller wrote: > >> I keep Windows Defender and the free version of Avira running on my >> desktop, and I haven't had a problem in ages with viruses. > > Avast Antivirus > Malware bytes > Zone Alarm > > Each handle a different aspect of security. > > Plus checking your computer for open ports at Shields Up From fred.fredex at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 15:25:33 2022 From: fred.fredex at gmail.com (Fred) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 10:25:33 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: <3daed19df699e08c44f201c3ac4f6a26@gol.com> References: <3daed19df699e08c44f201c3ac4f6a26@gol.com> Message-ID: the "link" was embedded in a large block of 4-point type. when I stretched out to readability, I could see that it was slightly blurred, both the paragraph and the supposed link. My thought was that it was an image that resembled a block of text, with blue text purporting to be a link, but which was not, merely a part of the image. On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 10:17 AM dbernat wrote: > Louann Miller wrote: > > > I keep Windows Defender and the free version of Avira running on my > > desktop, and I haven't had a problem in ages with viruses. > > Avast Antivirus > Malware bytes > Zone Alarm > > Each handle a different aspect of security. > > Plus checking your computer for open ports at Shields Up > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to fred.fredex at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 15:37:36 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 15:37:36 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: During the McMartin panic Gayle was teaching preschool. (She taught for 25 years before she retired.) I was worried because through leading questions a dishonest person could make a child say or even believe almost anything. Consider the following sequence: 1. The child has an accident with a bowel movement. 2. The teacher or assistant helps the child clean up. 3. The teacher comforts the child and takes them back to class. Now look at the questions: 1. Did the teacher ever touch you there? Yes. 2. What happened afterwards? She hugged me and told me not to be sad. Gayle's school always had two people present in those circumstances but I'm not sure how much that would have helped. As the saying goes, "A prosecutor can indite a ham sandwich." William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Gwynne Powell Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 6:49:44 AM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books Alex Kwan wrote: > On Jan 5, 2022, at 19:26, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >> The only trouble I had with Darmok was that I couldn't understand how >> children could learn the background stories behind the phrases. > Osmosis. You learn what the phrase is supposed to mean, then later the > stories. When I was growing up, there was a television animated short > program explaining the story behind the various phrases. Other languages > have the same thing, too, just not as much. For example, most kids in > the West learn that Eden means utopia and only later learn about the > biblical story behind it. Gwynne: It doesn't work as well as you'd think. When I was working with kids I was often surprised by things that they didn't know; information that isn't taught because 'everyone knows...' And they don't. There's plenty of adults who suddenly find out that something they'd assumed to be true, or the meaning of some expression they'd known for ages, was totally different. We have a lot of code words that are used without really noticing, and we expect everyone to pick up on it. I think I've used this example before: when AIDS first hit they had ads on TV coyly telling us to 'use protection' to avoid getting AIDS. I heard a ten-year -old telling someone that he wasn't going to get AIDS because he used protection - he had sunglasses. They were for protection. He had no idea of the particular sexual connotations of 'protection' in certain contexts. Another one is 'touching'. "Did the man touch you?" "Yes." Yes, he did - he touched the child's hand when they held hands to cross the road. The child has no idea that there's a different meaning in that conversation - and it is REALLY important for the person talking to the child to be aware of that. Children pick up a lot of the sayings, and codes, and meanings - but it's surprising how many people get into adulthood before they find out certain meanings. When you add cultural differences from country to country, I'm amazed that we can communicate as well as we do. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4a5803bfc96c4a37497508d9d2adc1eb%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772466047588804%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=bFBglpwdJwzbFsga1%2FFJ%2BMhj6r9v8SjJ38Dz4HCfUc8%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 16:00:26 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:00:26 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Texting is not nuanced. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Gwynne Powell Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 7:34:30 AM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books From: Raymond Collins I've been thinking, that the earliest form of communication between organisms of a single species has been pheromones. And that, despite the fact we have evolved our ability to communicate verbally with each other. It's pheromones that affect or metabolism and eventually our behavior. Imagine 'Romeo and Juliet' without pheromones.... Gwynne: (Loved the Romeo and Juliet retelling.) Communication also uses facial expression, gestures, body language, and intonation. All of which are lost when we use the internet, which is probably the cause of a lot of arguments online - just simple lack of communication. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C2ec06130f4554deead4008d9d2b4028c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772492845178416%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=i4XckBD0YRa%2BkjMWCEAJlPkKXR%2BD4gGRku%2BZHz60yy4%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 16:01:51 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:01:51 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tend to hold the Klingon view. P?Tocks! William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Gwynne Powell Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 7:42:10 AM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books > On Jan 7, 2022, at 6:57 AM, Raymond Collins wrote: > I've been thinking, that the earliest form of communication between > organisms of a single species has been pheromones. And that, despite the > fact we have evolved our ability to communicate verbally with each other. > It's pheromones that affect or metabolism and eventually our behavior. > Imagine 'Romeo and Juliet' without pheromones. > Romeo: "Hi I'm Romeo, " > Juliet: "Juliet, " > Romeo: "Our parents are douchbags," > Juliet: "You got that right!" > Romeo: "well catch you later, Mercutio's taking me out to a boar fight!" > Juliet: "sure, whatever, " > And doeth end ?Romeo and Juliet" without pheromones. Gwynne: Totally irrelevant side note: One of my pet hates (and a source of a lot of private hilarity at times) is the way people use 'Romeo and Juliet' to refer to a romance between two people, or characters. I seriously wonder how many people know how the play ends. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C9471ecee0e9548b99c2208d9d2b51429%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772497436572016%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=pg2RPPsZ1pe1r6rZJ%2F61%2FvN%2F7IdbXwG7VEFKHd3FLbY%3D&reserved=0 From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 8 16:02:10 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 09:02:10 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 8, 2022, at 7:34 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Gwynne: (Loved the Romeo and Juliet retelling.) > Communication also uses facial expression, gestures, body language, > and intonation. All of which are lost when we use the internet, which is > probably the cause of a lot of arguments online - just simple lack of > communication. An interesting aspect of this is how domestic dogs evolved to show human emotions. From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 8 16:10:59 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 09:10:59 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 8, 2022, at 9:00 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > Texting is not nuanced. Nor is letter writing. Which doesn?t mean they always communicate more poorly than video calls. Nor that novels communicate more poorly than movies. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 17:11:05 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 17:11:05 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: WILLIAM A WENRICH Emma is playing her first game in the YMCA volleyball league today and Brian sent me a picture. We couldn't attend because of restrictions. Her team colors are black and white. That got me thinking about team colors in professional sports and if there's a link to the district colors on Barrayar. Perhaps it has come full circle from colors on the battlefield to team colors and then back to the battlefield. The only NBA team to use brown is the Celtics. William A Wenrich Gwynne: Good luck to Emma with her first game. And I agree about the team colours on Barrayar; I'm sure there's some interdistict competitions, and each District wears their colours. (There's a mention somewhere in the books, I think, about how Miles and Ivan had Disctrict colour flags or small banners in their rooms as kids, I assumed it was from sports teams.) But sixty teams? They'd need to have sector competitions; maybe East and West, or North and South, with a grand final between the winners of each separate competition. From margdean56 at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 17:47:29 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 10:47:29 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 8:14 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > Emma is playing her first game in the YMCA volleyball league today and > Brian sent me a picture. We couldn't attend because of restrictions. Her > team colors are black and white. > Yay Emma! > That got me thinking about team colors in professional sports and if > there's a link to the district colors on Barrayar. Perhaps it has come full > circle from colors on the battlefield to team colors and then back to the > battlefield. > The only NBA team to use brown is the Celtics. > It all probably does trace back to heraldry (and flags/banners), which indeed originated on the battlefield as a way to distinguish friend from foe. In sports where the two teams mingle / interact with each other, I suspect team colors *still* have that function, for the players as well as the spectators. --Margaret Dean From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 8 17:51:27 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 10:51:27 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 8, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Margaret Dean wrote: > > It all probably does trace back to heraldry (and flags/banners), which > indeed originated on the battlefield as a way to distinguish friend from > foe. In sports where the two teams mingle / interact with each other, I > suspect team colors *still* have that function, for the players as well as > the spectators. The era when military uniforms were brightly identifiable is smaller than we think. From proto at panix.com Sat Jan 8 18:08:34 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:08:34 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1FA1D53D-08D0-4682-A578-530CDDB02DC1@panix.com> > On Jan 8, 2022, at 9:40 AM, Fred wrote: > > I've recently had several scam emails offering cheap life or household > insurance. The one from yesterday had an unsubscribelink that wasn't a > link?tapping it did nothing visible. Fortunately for you. A reply verifies your address as a working address. And turn off ?load remote content? that also can bring you more spam. You can load the content later, if you trust the source. __ What is the difference between unethical and ethical advertising? Unethical advertising uses falsehoods to deceive the public; ethical advertising uses truth to deceive the public. Vilhjalmur Stefansson (1879 ? 1962) From proto at panix.com Sat Jan 8 18:10:00 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:10:00 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 8, 2022, at 9:42 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Gwynne: Totally irrelevant side note: One of my pet hates (and a source > of a lot of private hilarity at times) is the way people use 'Romeo and > Juliet' to refer to a romance between two people, or characters. I seriously > wonder how many people know how the play ends. Or that ?West Side Story? is a remake. ? In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over." --tweet by British columnist, Dan Hodges, June 15, 2015? From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 8 18:36:41 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 18:36:41 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Howard Brazee > On Jan 8, 2022, at 7:34 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Gwynne: (Loved the Romeo and Juliet retelling.) > Communication also uses facial expression, gestures, body language, > and intonation. All of which are lost when we use the internet, which is > probably the cause of a lot of arguments online - just simple lack of > communication. An interesting aspect of this is how domestic dogs evolved to show human emotions. Gwynne: Maybe humans evolved to show dog emotions. From baur at chello.at Sat Jan 8 18:40:55 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 19:40:55 +0100 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: both - there are signs of co-evolution of dogs and men humans that could work better with dogs had an evolutionary advantage servus markus Am 08.01.2022 um 19:36 schrieb Gwynne Powell: > From: Howard Brazee > > >> On Jan 8, 2022, at 7:34 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: >> >> Gwynne: (Loved the Romeo and Juliet retelling.) >> Communication also uses facial expression, gestures, body language, >> and intonation. All of which are lost when we use the internet, which is >> probably the cause of a lot of arguments online - just simple lack of >> communication. > > An interesting aspect of this is how domestic dogs evolved to show human emotions. > > Gwynne: Maybe humans evolved to show dog emotions. From tlambs1138 at charter.net Sat Jan 8 19:30:40 2022 From: tlambs1138 at charter.net (Jean Lamb) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 11:30:40 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Birthday Tixie Message-ID: <02ae01d804c6$393eead0$abbcc070$@charter.net> Happy 9th birthday to Anna Wenrich! Today you will be helping Auntie Marta in the lab with the butterbugs at Vorkosigan House. She is putting some kind of chemical on three of the butterbug queens so they will become fertile and have more butterbugs. She asks you to watch them and tell her when the color on their behinds changes to yellow, because that means the chemical is working. You stand there and wait, even though it's really boring. And then you notice something. "Auntie Marta, the one in the middle isn't changing. Does that mean there's something wrong with it?" Marta comes over and frowns. You worry for a moment, till she says, "I'm not mad at you, Anna. I am just surprised the chemical didn't work. I'll go take another look at this one. You can go sit down now, you did the right thing by telling me about this." Uncle Enrique comes over and looks at the different butterbug queen along with Auntie Marta. Then Marta says, "This queen is already fertile and didn't need the chemical. We'll have to test them all to make sure we don't have any more like that." So you spend the afternoon helping them check all the queens, and making sure the checked ones and the unchecked ones stay separate. Once it's all done, you are told that you were a lot of help and you get a birthday dinner there along with your grandpa. Ma Kosti is cooking, of course, and makes all your favorites. You also get a big cake and everyone sings "Happy Birthday!". Happy Birthday!!! Jean Lamb tlambs1138 at charter.net https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 21:02:59 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 21:02:59 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Truly. Also, things like body language can be misinterpreted or for a different reason than thought. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Howard Brazee Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 9:10:59 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books > On Jan 8, 2022, at 9:00 AM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > Texting is not nuanced. Nor is letter writing. Which doesn?t mean they always communicate more poorly than video calls. Nor that novels communicate more poorly than movies. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf23aea0c85e44d8dece008d9d2c17e6d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772550757784574%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7BPWTw9j3SzApAQWiTMOjhpmQgnJgLQHw1ihxmOpBZw%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 21:08:13 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 21:08:13 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Uniforms as in the same for everyone were probably too expensive for most of history. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Howard Brazee Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 10:51:27 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Colors > On Jan 8, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Margaret Dean wrote: > > It all probably does trace back to heraldry (and flags/banners), which > indeed originated on the battlefield as a way to distinguish friend from > foe. In sports where the two teams mingle / interact with each other, I > suspect team colors *still* have that function, for the players as well as > the spectators. The era when military uniforms were brightly identifiable is smaller than we think. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5e291e200f6544eb9f8608d9d2cf895f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772611070786112%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Ji0lvdR%2FO8eXwabEtvJi3v3nljOsNqusamAFmyXqD2k%3D&reserved=0 From douglasw at his.com Sat Jan 8 21:43:44 2022 From: douglasw at his.com (Douglas Weinfield) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:43:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [LMB] Heinlein's Door into Summer is now a (Japanese) movie on Netflix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1140397844.11238450.1641678224214.JavaMail.zimbra@his.com> https://www.netflix.com/watch/81517003?trackId=14277281&tctx=-97%2C-97%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C And it's pretty good! From beatrice_otter at zoho.com Sat Jan 8 22:25:22 2022 From: beatrice_otter at zoho.com (Beatrice Otter) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2022 14:25:22 -0800 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17e3bcbd86a.be23ce3917065.7612893078230248755@zoho.com> ---- On Sat, 08 Jan 2022 13:02:59 -0800 WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote ---- Truly. Also, things like body language can be misinterpreted or for a different reason than thought. Beatrice Otter: Malcolm Gladwell's book "Talking to Strangers" does a fairly good layman's-level exploration of this. There are two big problems with body language/facial expressions/tone of voice and all the accompanying clues. First, it varies from culture to culture, sometimes by a huge margin. Second, even *within* cultures, not everybody is "correctly" using these things in ways that line up with cultural expectations. You have some people who are very good at falsifying their cues to make themselves look better/more trustworthy; you have some people who just ... don't project (or pick up on) the "right" cues and so look *less* trustworthy or "weird." IF you are really good at reading such cues and IF you are dealing with someone from the same culture as you and IF that person is someone whose social cues match and correctly align with their current emotional state and truthfulness, then you can pick up a great deal of accurate information using such cues! ... and if any one of those things is not true, you may still think you have learned a lot from those cues, except you are *100% wrong* about what they're actually telling you. Text-based communication has less information than face-to-face communications, it is true. But what information there is is more reliable. You might misunderstand the tone (were they serious or sarcastic?) but the actual content is verifiable to all parties, and not based on gut reactions and whether or not your social cues and their social cues were both accurate and interacting properly. Beatrice Otter From brashley46 at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 22:37:42 2022 From: brashley46 at gmail.com (B. Ross Ashley) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 17:37:42 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Heinlein's Door into Summer is now a (Japanese) movie on Netflix Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:43:44 -0500 (EST), Douglas Weinfield wrote https://www.netflix.com/watch/81517003?trackId=14277281&tctx=-97%2C-97%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C (https://link.getmailspring.com/link/CEEA5FD5-8755-47EE-B879-1B45355D8EAF at getmailspring.com/0?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.netflix.com%2Fwatch%2F81517003%3FtrackId%3D14277281%26tctx%3D-97%252C-97%252C%252C%252C%252C%252C%252C&recipient=bG9pcy1idWpvbGRAbGlzdHMuaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVr) > And it's pretty good! Oh wow ... My absolute favourite of his works. Shall have to look for that. From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 8 23:01:35 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:01:35 -0700 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <17e3bcbd86a.be23ce3917065.7612893078230248755@zoho.com> References: <17e3bcbd86a.be23ce3917065.7612893078230248755@zoho.com> Message-ID: <41E9EC7A-A94B-475F-88F7-AC2B0EA5C284@brazee.net> > On Jan 8, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Beatrice Otter via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > Truly. Also, things like body language can be misinterpreted or for a different reason than thought. The December, 2021 Scientific American has an article about using AI to recognize emotions: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/your-boss-wants-to-spy-on-your-inner-feelings/ From margdean56 at gmail.com Sat Jan 8 23:05:39 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:05:39 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:08 PM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > Uniforms as in the same for everyone were probably too expensive for most > of history. > I also tend to associate uniforms properly so called with standing armies (as opposed to, say, feudal levies). --Margaret Dean From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 23:05:54 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 23:05:54 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <17e3bcbd86a.be23ce3917065.7612893078230248755@zoho.com> References: <17e3bcbd86a.be23ce3917065.7612893078230248755@zoho.com> Message-ID: Someone could appear angry. They are. However, they aren?t angry at the current situation but at the guy who cut them off in traffic or the person who flipped them off on the way there. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Beatrice Otter via Lois-Bujold Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 3:25:22 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Cc: Beatrice Otter Subject: Re: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books ---- On Sat, 08 Jan 2022 13:02:59 -0800 WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote ---- Truly. Also, things like body language can be misinterpreted or for a different reason than thought. Beatrice Otter: Malcolm Gladwell's book "Talking to Strangers" does a fairly good layman's-level exploration of this. There are two big problems with body language/facial expressions/tone of voice and all the accompanying clues. First, it varies from culture to culture, sometimes by a huge margin. Second, even *within* cultures, not everybody is "correctly" using these things in ways that line up with cultural expectations. You have some people who are very good at falsifying their cues to make themselves look better/more trustworthy; you have some people who just ... don't project (or pick up on) the "right" cues and so look *less* trustworthy or "weird." IF you are really good at reading such cues and IF you are dealing with someone from the same culture as you and IF that person is someone whose social cues match and correctly align with their current emotional state and truthfulness, then you can pick up a great deal of accurate information using such cues! ... and if any one of those t! hings is not true, you may still think you have learned a lot from those cues, except you are *100% wrong* about what they're actually telling you. Text-based communication has less information than face-to-face communications, it is true. But what information there is is more reliable. You might misunderstand the tone (were they serious or sarcastic?) but the actual content is verifiable to all parties, and not based on gut reactions and whether or not your social cues and their social cues were both accurate and interacting properly. Beatrice Otter -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C2b7e74d568f34a6b3a5608d9d2f5ca31%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772775374859966%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=0Uw5Fy81EfTw1TWpnwtTIye4Wp8Tx9q%2Bnq0h2Gnieko%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Sat Jan 8 23:07:02 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 23:07:02 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Heinlein's Door into Summer is now a (Japanese) movie on Netflix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not available in my area. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of B. Ross Ashley Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 3:37:42 PM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: [LMB] Heinlein's Door into Summer is now a (Japanese) movie on Netflix On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 16:43:44 -0500 (EST), Douglas Weinfield wrote https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.netflix.com%2Fwatch%2F81517003%3FtrackId%3D14277281%26tctx%3D-97%252C-97%252C%252C%252C%252C%252C%252C&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4cbc2b54f11e433c0b5c08d9d2f7826f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772782754240440%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=4wNXSPaPrSi4gw%2Bi%2Fi8XRCc795tTyTTg4xswem5pENc%3D&reserved=0 (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.getmailspring.com%2Flink%2FCEEA5FD5-8755-47EE-B879-1B45355D8EAF%40getmailspring.com%2F0%3Fredirect%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.netflix.com%252Fwatch%252F81517003%253FtrackId%253D14277281%2526tctx%253D-97%25252C-97%25252C%25252C%25252C%25252C%25252C%25252C%26recipient%3DbG9pcy1idWpvbGRAbGlzdHMuaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVr&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4cbc2b54f11e433c0b5c08d9d2f7826f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772782754240440%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LmbEi23pYuBpswD2E3rXFTm9ckcAGkX%2BJXM0%2Fa2IwfM%3D&reserved=0) > And it's pretty good! Oh wow ... My absolute favourite of his works. Shall have to look for that. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C4cbc2b54f11e433c0b5c08d9d2f7826f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637772782754240440%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=cVXlsSyWE3OxrNRJqHqNX0OiWv%2BreMcggLi7GqC8Ao0%3D&reserved=0 From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Sun Jan 9 03:58:25 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 22:58:25 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 9:42 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > Gwynne: Totally irrelevant side note: One of my pet hates (and a source > of a lot of private hilarity at times) is the way people use 'Romeo and > Juliet' to refer to a romance between two people, or characters. I > seriously > wonder how many people know how the play ends. > -- . > How it ENDS? How about, how it STARTS? With Romeo sighing and pining over the Fair Rosaline. And then he sees Juliet and throws over Rosaline before he even talks to Juliet. I bet if the parents hadn't stood in the way, R&J would have lasted two weeks. A month, tops. And then Romeo would be sighing and pining over some other fair maiden. Sylvia From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Sun Jan 9 04:02:53 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 23:02:53 -0500 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <17e3bcbd86a.be23ce3917065.7612893078230248755@zoho.com> References: <17e3bcbd86a.be23ce3917065.7612893078230248755@zoho.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 5:25 PM Beatrice Otter via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > and if any one of those things is not true, you may still think you have > learned a lot from those cues, except you are *100% wrong* about what > they're actually telling you. > Beatrice is, as usual, very informative and interesting to read. Sylvia From saffronrose at me.com Sun Jan 9 04:31:12 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 20:31:12 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1D87499D-A384-48E4-BF46-5B9B5747E74A@me.com> On Jan 8, 2022, at 7:26 AM, Fred wrote: > > ?the "link" was embedded in a large block of 4-point type. when I stretched > out to readability, I could see that it was slightly blurred, both the > paragraph and the supposed link. My thought was that it was an image that > resembled a block of text, with blue text purporting to be a link, but > which was not, merely a part of the image. PDFs are always a sign of spam. I also look at the sender?s full address?usually a dead giveaway. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 9 05:43:39 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 23:43:39 -0600 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The relationship between Ekaterin and Tien could be seen at the toxic end of athe relationship spectrum. And also the more uglier aspects of traditional Vor culture. On Sat, Jan 8, 2022, 7:01 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: Karen Hunt > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:25 PM Margaret via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > Question: She says that Barrayar is an exploration of the cost of > > parenthood through six parallel couples. I can't identify the couples. > > Here are the ones I can think of: > > Clearly: > > Cordelia and Aral > > Kou and Drou > > Maybe: > > Alys and Padma > > Kareen and Serg > > Kareen and Vidal > > > > The other is Bothari and the replicator. Quoted from the Author's Afterword > in Cordelia's Honor: > Not just Aral and Cordelia, but all the other supporting couples took up > and played their symphonic variations on the theme, exploring its > complexities: Kou and Drou, Padma and Alys, Piotr and his dead wife, > Vordarian and Serg and Kareen, and most strangely and SFnally, Bothari and > the uterine replicator. > > Gwynne: I would have added Ekaterin and Tien to the list; parenthood > brought Ekaterin a huge love for her child, but it was a tether that > limited > her life and choices for a long time. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From baur at chello.at Sun Jan 9 06:15:25 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 07:15:25 +0100 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3e11bf77-578c-c1a9-9816-4ba6046f192b@chello.at> Am 09.01.2022 um 04:58 schrieb Sylvia McIvers: > On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 9:42 AM Gwynne Powell > wrote: > >> >> >> Gwynne: Totally irrelevant side note: One of my pet hates (and a source >> of a lot of private hilarity at times) is the way people use 'Romeo and >> Juliet' to refer to a romance between two people, or characters. I >> seriously >> wonder how many people know how the play ends. >> -- . >> > > How it ENDS? How about, how it STARTS? > With Romeo sighing and pining over the Fair Rosaline. > > And then he sees Juliet and throws over Rosaline before he even talks to > Juliet. yes - 14 year olds ... both of them .. and like any teenager in that age, drama queens to the nth power servus markus > I bet if the parents hadn't stood in the way, R&J would have lasted two > weeks. A month, tops. And then Romeo would be sighing and pining over some > other fair maiden. > > Sylvia From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Sun Jan 9 08:52:18 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 08:52:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Courage is going on. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1678734597.640729.1641718338394@mail.yahoo.com> Stewart, your mother had a beautiful voice. Thanks for sharing those links. Micki From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 9 09:08:38 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 03:08:38 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Heinlein's Door into Summer is now a (Japanese) movie on Netflix In-Reply-To: <1140397844.11238450.1641678224214.JavaMail.zimbra@his.com> References: <1140397844.11238450.1641678224214.JavaMail.zimbra@his.com> Message-ID: I started watching this on my tablet when I realized I had Netflix. It's awesome, but it's late so I'm going to finish watching it on my TV. Thank you. I'm hooked. On Sat, Jan 8, 2022, 3:43 PM Douglas Weinfield wrote: > > https://www.netflix.com/watch/81517003?trackId=14277281&tctx=-97%2C-97%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C > > And it's pretty good! > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sun Jan 9 09:16:54 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 03:16:54 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My High School colors were black and gold. I bought a few gold colored t-shirts at the local store. And found some black shorts. Unfortunately I didn't pay too much attention to the bag of black "shorts" which turned out to be boxers. Oops. On Sat, Jan 8, 2022, 5:06 PM Margaret Dean wrote: > On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:08 PM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > > Uniforms as in the same for everyone were probably too expensive for most > > of history. > > > > I also tend to associate uniforms properly so called with standing armies > (as opposed to, say, feudal levies). > > > --Margaret Dean > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Sun Jan 9 09:50:48 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 09:50:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <97423642-E1EA-469B-91D6-1290FE205EBD@hamilton.edu> References: <487BFBC5-8EA4-4E45-936A-5B13D8B7A4C6@gmail.com> <97423642-E1EA-469B-91D6-1290FE205EBD@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: <1031699296.637238.1641721848992@mail.yahoo.com> On Friday, January 7, 2022, 12:33:56 AM GMT+9, Kathy Collett wrote: On Jan 6, 2022, at 2:56 AM, Alex Kwan wrote: > > You don?t need the story to know what a phrase is supposed to mean. Yes, and we see this all the time, especially with the internet and memes and the language of teens, etc.? Words and phrases leak out from in-groups and start being used without the original context being known.? For instance, I?ve used variations on ?all your base are belong to us? with only a vague idea of the original context.? My children say ?pay troll? without having ever played the original Adventure game where you had to pay the troll the golden eggs.? And culture continues to generate new examples ? we?ve already had one mention of ?hot buttered Jorts? on the list (thank you, Micki!), and I?ve seen a number elsewhere; I don?t know that it?s settled down to have one particular meaning ? the original story is rich with possibilities (see https://www.cnet.com/how-to/jorts-the-cat-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-internets-new-favourite-cat/ if you want to know more). Katherine -- Micki: LOL, just the mention of hot buttered Jorts makes me feel so melty inside. The whole episode is full of wordplay, and inspires wordplay, even though the main plot is about an HR issue. (My mind exploded just a little when I realized that Jorts -- Jean Shorts -- was meant to be a companion word to Jean(s).) I wonder if those are the cats' real names, or if the writer to Am I The Asshole changed them for anonymity. I think a lot of us use words and phrases and then discover the story behind the thing -- which can makes us ridiculously delighted or a little bit uncomfortable. Of course I can't think of any recent examples where I looked up the etymology of a word, and discovered that it was originally used in X context.? From lmb at matija.com Sun Jan 9 11:50:52 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 11:50:52 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Heinlein's Door into Summer is now a (Japanese) movie on Netflix In-Reply-To: <1140397844.11238450.1641678224214.JavaMail.zimbra@his.com> References: <1140397844.11238450.1641678224214.JavaMail.zimbra@his.com> Message-ID: On 08/01/2022 21:43, Douglas Weinfield wrote: > https://www.netflix.com/watch/81517003?trackId=14277281&tctx=-97%2C-97%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C > > And it's pretty good! OOOOOOH! Thank you! Or should I say domo arigatou gosaimashita! I'm on-call today but I will check it out as soon as I'm free. From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 03:42:13 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 21:42:13 -0600 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <17e3bcbd86a.be23ce3917065.7612893078230248755@zoho.com> Message-ID: One of the more tragic aspect of missunderstanding body language, happened in Iraq when American soldiers raised their hand to order somebody to stop. Unfortunately Iraqi civilians thought it was an order to come along. Which resulted in bloodshed. So body language alongside with hand gestures are culturally learned. On Sat, Jan 8, 2022, 10:03 PM Sylvia McIvers wrote: > On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 5:25 PM Beatrice Otter via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > and if any one of those things is not true, you may still think you have > > learned a lot from those cues, except you are *100% wrong* about what > > they're actually telling you. > > > > Beatrice is, as usual, very informative and interesting to read. > > Sylvia > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 04:34:07 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 22:34:07 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: <1D87499D-A384-48E4-BF46-5B9B5747E74A@me.com> References: <1D87499D-A384-48E4-BF46-5B9B5747E74A@me.com> Message-ID: I got an email from my neighbors saying they had arrested in the Philippines and needed bail money. Since I could look out the window and seeing them barbecuing, I was pretty certain they where not incarcerated in the Philippines. It turned out their email password had been hacked and everyone in their address book got the same email. On Sat, Jan 8, 2022, 10:31 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On Jan 8, 2022, at 7:26 AM, Fred wrote: > > > > ?the "link" was embedded in a large block of 4-point type. when I > stretched > > out to readability, I could see that it was slightly blurred, both the > > paragraph and the supposed link. My thought was that it was an image that > > resembled a block of text, with blue text purporting to be a link, but > > which was not, merely a part of the image. > > PDFs are always a sign of spam. > I also look at the sender?s full address?usually a dead giveaway. > > A. Marina Fournier > saffronrose at me.com > Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e > Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA > Sent from iFionnghuala > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Mon Jan 10 07:25:09 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 07:25:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> I would guess that having everyone in "the same" uniform was something that rulers were willing to splash out on . . . not sure about for common people, but maybe?? I don't really think of religious costumes as being uniforms, but they seem quite uniform -- similar styles and fabrics. I googled Egyptian priests, and saw half a dozen priests wearing the same sarongs and costumes in a picture. I believe I've seen pictures of Egyptian servants dressed very similarly.? I saw a beautiful Minoan "Ancient Greek wall fresco" of three priestesses wearing the same dress, with three stripes down the front and the same border. (Hellenic-art.com, Minoan priestesses II) A prehistoric painting/silhouette of dancers showed several dancers wearing the same headdresses and butt bustles.? (Pinterest, it seems. CHAUDRON: Prehistoric rock paintings of Libyan and Algerian Sahara.? I suppose it depends on what the definition of uniforms are. I recently saw (maybe on Atlas Obscura?) servants serving dinner, all dressed in black pointy shoes, tights and really short and very shoulder-paddy tops. (YES! "Why Were Medieval Europeans So Obssessed With Long Pointy Shoes.) Fashion? Or uniform? The styles were identical, even though the colors were different.? Micki From beatrice_otter at zoho.com Mon Jan 10 08:12:34 2022 From: beatrice_otter at zoho.com (Beatrice Otter) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 00:12:34 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> ---- On Sun, 09 Jan 2022 23:25:09 -0800 M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote ---- I would guess that having everyone in "the same" uniform was something that rulers were willing to splash out on . . . not sure about for common people, but maybe?? I don't really think of religious costumes as being uniforms, but they seem quite uniform -- similar styles and fabrics. I googled Egyptian priests, and saw half a dozen priests wearing the same sarongs and costumes in a picture. I believe I've seen pictures of Egyptian servants dressed very similarly.? I saw a beautiful Minoan "Ancient Greek wall fresco" of three priestesses wearing the same dress, with three stripes down the front and the same border. (Hellenic-art.com, Minoan priestesses II) A prehistoric painting/silhouette of dancers showed several dancers wearing the same headdresses and butt bustles.? (Pinterest, it seems. CHAUDRON: Prehistoric rock paintings of Libyan and Algerian Sahara.? I suppose it depends on what the definition of uniforms are. I recently saw (maybe on Atlas Obscura?) servants serving dinner, all dressed in black pointy shoes, tights and really short and very shoulder-paddy tops. (YES! "Why Were Medieval Europeans So Obssessed With Long Pointy Shoes.) Fashion? Or uniform? The styles were identical, even though the colors were different.? Micki Beatrice Otter: The difference between armies and the examples you name is that from the fall of Rome until the 1800s, armies were not professional standing forces. You had two basic models: nonprofessional armies where people come together for the war and then disband afterwards (feudal levies, etc.) and mercenaries. The nonprofessional armies, being soldiers/men at arms was only temporary and every lord had their own colors, and knights often had their own devices. So it wasn't worth it to give the rank-and-file a set of clothing solely to wear while they were in the army. Expensive, and they'd have their own clothes anyway. They come with clothes, and probably wouldn't be in the army long enough to wear those clothes out. I mean, some of them would be, but since you don't already have an industry set up to make clothes for soldiers, it's easiest if you expect them to buy/make any clothing they need with their pay. And their commanders wouldn't be uniform, often, because even if they were professional fighters on some level they weren't often fighting together in a big army like that, and each of them had distinctive gear. Mercenary armies ... were usually outfitted on the cheap, and sometimes turned brigand, and would go from one war to another fighting for whoever could pay them. Why bother putting them in a uniform? Monks and nuns, on the other hand, will be at a particular abbey for life. The abbey has to clothe them. Besides the fact that it's *easier* to just make the same garments over and over again, it's also a sign of humility that they don't have fashionable/distinctive clothes. Servants, again, would be with their master/mistress for years and it was the master/mistress' responsibility to see that they were clothed. The easiest and cheapest thing to do is give them all the same thing. Beatrice Otter From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Mon Jan 10 08:48:32 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 08:48:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> Message-ID: <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> On Monday, January 10, 2022, 05:12:49 PM GMT+9, Beatrice Otter via Lois-Bujold wrote: ---- On Sun, 09 Jan 2022 23:25:09 -0800 M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote ---- I would guess that having everyone in "the same" uniform was something that rulers were willing to splash out on . . . not sure about for common people, but maybe?? I don't really think of religious costumes as being uniforms, but they seem quite uniform -- similar styles and fabrics. I googled Egyptian priests, and saw half a dozen priests wearing the same sarongs and costumes in a picture. I believe I've seen pictures of Egyptian servants dressed very similarly.? I saw a beautiful Minoan "Ancient Greek wall fresco" of three priestesses wearing the same dress, with three stripes down the front and the same border. (Hellenic-art.com, Minoan priestesses II) A prehistoric painting/silhouette of dancers showed several dancers wearing the same headdresses and butt bustles.? (Pinterest, it seems. CHAUDRON: Prehistoric rock paintings of Libyan and Algerian Sahara.? I suppose it depends on what the definition of uniforms are. I recently saw (maybe on Atlas Obscura?) servants serving dinner, all dressed in black pointy shoes, tights and really short and very shoulder-paddy tops. (YES! "Why Were Medieval Europeans So Obssessed With Long Pointy Shoes.) Fashion? Or uniform? The styles were identical, even though the colors were different.? Micki Beatrice Otter: The difference between armies and the examples you name is that from the fall of Rome until the 1800s, armies were not professional standing forces. You had two basic models: nonprofessional armies where people come together for the war and then disband afterwards (feudal levies, etc.) and mercenaries. The nonprofessional armies, being soldiers/men at arms was only temporary and every lord had their own colors, and knights often had their own devices. So it wasn't worth it to give the rank-and-file a set of clothing solely to wear while they were in the army. Expensive, and they'd have their own clothes anyway. They come with clothes, and probably wouldn't be in the army long enough to wear those clothes out. I mean, some of them would be, but since you don't already have an industry set up to make clothes for soldiers, it's easiest if you expect them to buy/make any clothing they need with their pay. And their commanders wouldn't be uniform, often, because even if they were professional fighters on some level they weren't often fighting together in a big army like that, and each of them had distinctive gear. Mercenary armies ... were usually outfitted on the cheap, and sometimes turned brigand, and would go from one war to another fighting for whoever could pay them. Why bother putting them in a uniform? Monks and nuns, on the other hand, will be at a particular abbey for life. The abbey has to clothe them. Besides the fact that it's *easier* to just make the same garments over and over again, it's also a sign of humility that they don't have fashionable/distinctive clothes. Servants, again, would be with their master/mistress for years and it was the master/mistress' responsibility to see that they were clothed. The easiest and cheapest thing to do is give them all the same thing. Beatrice Otter -- Micki: I agree with you that? army uniforms are different (soldiers would just BLEED in the darn things). I was talking more in the vein of uniforms as in the various servants etc of the Vorkosigans, and in reply to, I think, William, who thought maybe uniforms would be too expensive to be used in the far past.? Some humans just seem to like to see a bunch of people wearing the same clothing. If they are rich enough to indulge (organized religions, traders or conquerors), it seems like a very common whim throughout history to dress them in the same clothing (or as close to the same as possible).? As to the monks and nuns -- yes, and. I think it was the Atlas Obscura article that I mentioned earlier that said the clergy might be supposed to wear humble articles of clothing and not stand out, but some of the rich ones would still wear sumptuous clothing (and pointy shoes that were useless).? Servants might be given hand-me-downs, so I don't think it's a given that hand-woven, hand-sewn clothing would all be the same. I think it's again, a whim of the person viewing the servants. Maybe they only wore matching outfits (uniforms?) for special occasions and only in the very richest (or quite rich but whimsical) households.? Drifting from the topic to something more on-topic: Vor colors would be at the whimsy of the original count who chose the colors, I would suppose. But the Barrayaran-wide services would probably subscribe to notions that make the enlisted man an identical cog in the machine. With the automated-yet-personal machines available to make uniforms, there might be small differences in fit to make the fighting cogs more efficient, but there wouldn't be much control over, say, the collar shape or how long the uniform tunic might be (they'd want to present a very uniform presentation as a bunch, so all the uniforms might be tailored by machine to fall precisely one meter from the ground when standing at attention).? Drifting further still: I think it's interesting that uniformity in clothing might be a temporary stop along the way . . . that if we get machines that allow us to mix and match sleeves, bodices, necklines, backs, hems, collars, etc., we might be closer to an original variety of clothing. But I think there will always be occasions when we're supposed to dress alike.? From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Mon Jan 10 08:54:56 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 08:54:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: <1D87499D-A384-48E4-BF46-5B9B5747E74A@me.com> Message-ID: <1931566208.872604.1641804896305@mail.yahoo.com> On Monday, January 10, 2022, 01:34:32 PM GMT+9, Raymond Collins wrote: I got an email from my neighbors saying they had arrested in the Philippines and needed bail money. Since I could look out the window and seeing them barbecuing, I was pretty certain they where not incarcerated in the Philippines. It turned out their email password had been hacked and everyone in their address book got the same email. Micki: Shortly before I left Facebook, someone contacted me through the messenger service (I can't remember what it was called) pretending to be a high school friend who was stranded in Spain, I think it was. I played along and really dumb until the guy gave up. When my friend got back on Facebook, she said she was amused.? Since that time, fooling around with scammers by making them waste their time and lose their tempers has become quite an entertainment option. I liked some of James Veitch's YouTube videos describing his adventures, but that leads to more "I scammed the scammers" videos in my feed, and some people really aren't that nice.? I had been off the computer for several months this summer and fall, and one of the first things I did when I got back on was order Christmas gifts. And I fell for one of those "your package delivery may be delayed" things. It did seem rather well done, but I got routed to Vietnam, I think it was. I'm thinking of putting a yearly reminder in my Google calender: "If you get a scary notice, check directly with the website you do business with; don't click through the email."? It's only natural that the scammers are going to get better at what they do, improve their grammar and use better graphics programs.? Micki From lmb at matija.com Mon Jan 10 09:02:45 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:02:45 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Heinlein's Door into Summer is now a (Japanese) movie on Netflix In-Reply-To: <1140397844.11238450.1641678224214.JavaMail.zimbra@his.com> References: <1140397844.11238450.1641678224214.JavaMail.zimbra@his.com> Message-ID: <2aaeda2d-8dc2-9d9f-9fea-49e002f9a3db@matija.com> On 08/01/2022 21:43, Douglas Weinfield wrote: > https://www.netflix.com/watch/81517003?trackId=14277281&tctx=-97%2C-97%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C%2C > > And it's pretty good! I've just finished watching it, and I agree, it's pretty good. It leaves out a great deal, but it hits all the major points. Now I have to go read the book again. Thank you, thank you, for letting us know about the movie. I doubt I would have heard of it otherwise, and that would be a shame. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Mon Jan 10 12:11:50 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:11:50 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: "M. Haller Yamada" I would guess that having everyone in "the same" uniform was something that rulers were willing to splash out on . . . not sure about for common people, but maybe?? Gwynne: Military uniforms have the advantage that people were less likely to attack the wrong ones. Livery for servants is a display of wealth and, by extension, power. In most cases; military uniforms, servants, religious groups, police, etc - uniforms made them easily identifiable, which for some groups was important for emergencies, and for others brought the wearer respect, or donations, or safety. And it has a definite impact, as a display of unity and power. Look at the reactions to the Barrayaran military uniforms, apparently designed by some libidinous romantic, who came up with a uniform that displays the wearer to great advantage and inspires strong reactions in those who see it. (As with Tej, frex. Mind you, Ivan is pretty impressive in any outfit.) And Duv's comments to Miles about the shiny boots, and later '...sugar-plum-fairy...' Those uniforms have PRESENCE. From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 10 12:49:00 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:49:00 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> Message-ID: Also, there?s the difference between outfitting a dozen entertainers, a similar number of household retainers or thousands of soldiers. In Mira?s Last Dance, Penric speculates if Mira would have her retainers wear clothes and masks with the same theme but not alike. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Beatrice Otter via Lois-Bujold Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 1:12:34 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Cc: Beatrice Otter Subject: Re: [LMB] Colors ---- On Sun, 09 Jan 2022 23:25:09 -0800 M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote ---- I would guess that having everyone in "the same" uniform was something that rulers were willing to splash out on . . . not sure about for common people, but maybe? I don't really think of religious costumes as being uniforms, but they seem quite uniform -- similar styles and fabrics. I googled Egyptian priests, and saw half a dozen priests wearing the same sarongs and costumes in a picture. I believe I've seen pictures of Egyptian servants dressed very similarly. I saw a beautiful Minoan "Ancient Greek wall fresco" of three priestesses wearing the same dress, with three stripes down the front and the same border. (Hellenic-art.com, Minoan priestesses II) A prehistoric painting/silhouette of dancers showed several dancers wearing the same headdresses and butt bustles. (Pinterest, it seems. CHAUDRON: Prehistoric rock paintings of Libyan and Algerian Sahara. I suppose it depends on what the definition of uniforms are. I recently saw (maybe on Atlas Obscura?) servants serving dinner, all dressed in black pointy shoes, tights and really short and very shoulder-paddy tops. (YES! "Why Were Medieval Europeans So Obssessed With Long Pointy Shoes.) Fashion? Or uniform? The styles were identical, even though the colors were different. Micki Beatrice Otter: The difference between armies and the examples you name is that from the fall of Rome until the 1800s, armies were not professional standing forces. You had two basic models: nonprofessional armies where people come together for the war and then disband afterwards (feudal levies, etc.) and mercenaries. The nonprofessional armies, being soldiers/men at arms was only temporary and every lord had their own colors, and knights often had their own devices. So it wasn't worth it to give the rank-and-file a set of clothing solely to wear while they were in the army. Expensive, and they'd have their own clothes anyway. They come with clothes, and probably wouldn't be in the army long enough to wear those clothes out. I mean, some of them would be, but since you don't already have an industry set up to make clothes for soldiers, it's easiest if you expect them to buy/make any clothing they need with their pay. And their commanders wouldn't be uniform, often, because even if they were professional fighters on some level they weren't often fighting together in a big army like that, and each of them had distinctive gear. Mercenary armies ... were usually outfitted on the cheap, and sometimes turned brigand, and would go from one war to another fighting for whoever could pay them. Why bother putting them in a uniform? Monks and nuns, on the other hand, will be at a particular abbey for life. The abbey has to clothe them. Besides the fact that it's *easier* to just make the same garments over and over again, it's also a sign of humility that they don't have fashionable/distinctive clothes. Servants, again, would be with their master/mistress for years and it was the master/mistress' responsibility to see that they were clothed. The easiest and cheapest thing to do is give them all the same thing. Beatrice Otter -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc697ff34e1ff44d2cefc08d9d410fcbd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637773991693074667%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kzn2pmStlrYI%2FcWYHMvMSI0rhLFi8xl1ccYwVT5HmQk%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 10 12:54:23 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:54:23 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: <1931566208.872604.1641804896305@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1D87499D-A384-48E4-BF46-5B9B5747E74A@me.com> <1931566208.872604.1641804896305@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I use a slightly different wording, if contacted by a business, organization, or other group, don?t reply or use any embedded link. contact them through your normal methods (i.e. phone) to verify. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 1:54:56 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Cc: M. Haller Yamada Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Phishing On Monday, January 10, 2022, 01:34:32 PM GMT+9, Raymond Collins wrote: I got an email from my neighbors saying they had arrested in the Philippines and needed bail money. Since I could look out the window and seeing them barbecuing, I was pretty certain they where not incarcerated in the Philippines. It turned out their email password had been hacked and everyone in their address book got the same email. Micki: Shortly before I left Facebook, someone contacted me through the messenger service (I can't remember what it was called) pretending to be a high school friend who was stranded in Spain, I think it was. I played along and really dumb until the guy gave up. When my friend got back on Facebook, she said she was amused. Since that time, fooling around with scammers by making them waste their time and lose their tempers has become quite an entertainment option. I liked some of James Veitch's YouTube videos describing his adventures, but that leads to more "I scammed the scammers" videos in my feed, and some people really aren't that nice. I had been off the computer for several months this summer and fall, and one of the first things I did when I got back on was order Christmas gifts. And I fell for one of those "your package delivery may be delayed" things. It did seem rather well done, but I got routed to Vietnam, I think it was. I'm thinking of putting a yearly reminder in my Google calender: "If you get a scary notice, check directly with the website you do business with; don't click through the email." It's only natural that the scammers are going to get better at what they do, improve their grammar and use better graphics programs. Micki -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3162dcdc013e49c69c1508d9d416e847%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637774017120235670%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=tkA1rX%2BqlXELPAkv9EkZ49uP2lBR7Cqxky8yWtstkf4%3D&reserved=0 From howard at brazee.net Mon Jan 10 14:06:32 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 07:06:32 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73E25C80-BC16-4327-9338-116D78964A26@brazee.net> > On Jan 10, 2022, at 1:48 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > Servants might be given hand-me-downs, so I don't think it's a given that hand-woven, hand-sewn clothing would all be the same. I think it's again, a whim of the person viewing the servants. Maybe they only wore matching outfits (uniforms?) for special occasions and only in the very richest (or quite rich but whimsical) households. A big reason for uniforms is to show who ?owns? the servants, and what authority they have. Cops have uniforms to show their authority. Military ranks are uniform so that you know that stranger with eagles on his shirt has authority over you. The color of a servant?s livery indicated who their bosses are, and again, where they are free to move (and who will pay for the goods they purchase). ?Costume? is a variation of ?Custom?. A wedding dress is a type of costume, and it shows the culture one is from. People have been ostracized for wearing beards if they are in clean-shaven cultures, sometimes even shorn by force. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Mon Jan 10 14:23:33 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:23:33 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some years ago we were told to avoid saying 'Yes' when a phone scammer rang. That they ask if you are Person X, knowing that you probably are, to get you to say "Yes," so that they can record that, cut it, and make it sound as if you'd consented to whatever they were selling. I don't know if that was ever true, although the warnings at the time included government spokesbobbles, as well as current affairs shows (cut to interviews with sad victims of the scam....) Haven't heard anything about it lately, though - was it ever a real thing? And is it still? From cjbotteron at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 14:28:36 2022 From: cjbotteron at gmail.com (Carol Botteron) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:28:36 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Colors Message-ID: Micki: ... Vor colors would be at the whimsy of the original count who chose the colors, I would suppose. Carol: Do we know how the counts originally got their specific colors? The High Vor have reasonable combinations, but IIRC some others have awful ones (doesn't someone have chartreuse and red)? Likely the higher ranking ones got to choose first, and maybe after some point they drew numbers. In my experience with Middle Eastern dance, members of a group may have quite different body shapes. Dressing them alike emphasizes this, and can distract from the unity of their movements. I prefer to dress the dancers in similar colors (everyone wear some blue and some purple) but allow variety in styles of sleeves etc. From john.c.lennard at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 15:17:08 2022 From: john.c.lennard at gmail.com (John Lennard) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:17:08 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books Message-ID: Sylvia: > And then he sees Juliet and throws over Rosaline before he even talks to > Juliet. Markus: yes - 14 year olds ... both of them .. and like any teenager in that age, drama queens to the nth power John: Quite right about teenage drama queens, but there is no evidence that Romeo is 14. We know Juliet is -- her mother tells us so (and that she is herself 28, having had Juliet when she was 14) -- but while Romeo is clearly also adolescent anything between 14 and 19 is possible, and I'd tend to think 16-17 probable. Tony Tanner (drawing on a remark by Coleridge) said the play is characterised by "precipitate immoderation", which is whang in the gold. Side note: as a tragedy of bourgeois teenagers (both Capulets and Montagues are mercantile, not noble), R&J is a much more radical play than tends to be realised, and after *Arden of Feversham* (c.1590/91), in which Shax has now been shown to have had a central hand, the second earliest example of what is now called 'domestic tragedy', denying Aristotle's definition of tragedy as applying to the great and affairs of state to reclaim it for all (or at least for the middle-class plus). But *Arden* is based on a real case of the 1550s, and many later domestic tragedies also cleave to the real -- *A Yorkshire Tragedy* (1605/6), *The Miseries of Enforced Marriage*(1607), *The Witch of Edmonton*(1621) -- whereas R&J much more unexpectedly comes from a poem retelling an Italian novella by Bandello ; radical fellow, sometimes, St Bill (his next excursion into domestic tragedy was *Othello*). That shock of the tragedy's domesticity is then greatly compounded by: a) the first 2.5 acts behaving like comedy ; and b) the plot devices that drive the tragedy in the later acts being comedic -- paternally demanded unwelcome marriage, a letter going stray &c. ; so that c) it is almost a tragedy by accident -- all of which would give Aristotle and any self-respecting neo-classicist even bigger hives than a bourgeois tragedy. If you really want a splendid retelling of R&J, btw, try Diana Wynne Jones, *The Magicians of Caprona*. -- John Lennard, MA DPhil. 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From baur at chello.at Mon Jan 10 15:38:08 2022 From: baur at chello.at (markus baur) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 16:38:08 +0100 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69388f1d-c6ea-0202-1bfe-a8db21457d12@chello.at> Am 10.01.2022 um 16:17 schrieb John Lennard: > Sylvia: > And then he sees Juliet and throws over Rosaline before he even > talks to >> Juliet. > > Markus: yes - 14 year olds ... both of them .. > > and like any teenager in that age, drama queens to the nth power > > John: Quite right about teenage drama queens, but there is no evidence that > Romeo is 14. We know Juliet is -- her mother tells us so (and that she is > herself 28, having had Juliet when she was 14) -- but while Romeo is > clearly also adolescent anything between 14 and 19 is possible, and I'd > tend to think 16-17 probable. Tony Tanner (drawing on a remark by > Coleridge) said the play is characterised by "precipitate immoderation", > which is whang in the gold. > > Side note: as a tragedy of bourgeois teenagers (both Capulets and Montagues > are mercantile, not noble), which however in the italian renaissance city states made very little of a difference forex: the Medici were bankers (or banksters?) servus markus R&J is a much more radical play than tends to > be realised, and after *Arden of Feversham* (c.1590/91), in which Shax has > now been shown to have had a central hand, the second earliest example of > what is now called 'domestic tragedy', denying Aristotle's definition of > tragedy as applying to the great and affairs of state to reclaim it for all > (or at least for the middle-class plus). But *Arden* is based on a real > case of the 1550s, and many later domestic tragedies also cleave to the > real -- *A Yorkshire Tragedy* (1605/6), *The Miseries of Enforced > Marriage*(1607), *The Witch of Edmonton*(1621) -- whereas R&J much more > unexpectedly comes from a poem retelling an Italian novella by Bandello ; > radical fellow, sometimes, St Bill (his next excursion into domestic > tragedy was *Othello*). > > That shock of the tragedy's domesticity is then greatly compounded by: > > a) the first 2.5 acts behaving like comedy ; and > b) the plot devices that drive the tragedy in the later acts being comedic > -- paternally demanded unwelcome marriage, a letter going stray &c. ; so > that > c) it is almost a tragedy by accident -- > > all of which would give Aristotle and any self-respecting neo-classicist > even bigger hives than a bourgeois tragedy. > > If you really want a splendid retelling of R&J, btw, try Diana Wynne Jones, > *The Magicians of Caprona*. > -- markus baur SCA: markus von brixlegg schluesselgasse 3/5 tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662 a-1040 wien email: baur at chello.at austria/europe icbm: 48?11'39"N; 16?22'06"E a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html "der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..." From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 10 15:56:24 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:56:24 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles Message-ID: No one on this list would confuse me with a writer. However, I've been kicking around ideas for stories about an investigator of strange crimes or just odd things. Some are possible with current technology while others are SF. For your consideration, here are three puzzles with solutions: 1. Woman in a tree - A backpacker breakers camp in the morning an hears someone moaning. He finds a shoe with a stiletto heal in the ground and sees an obviously injured woman high in a tree. She's wearing the other shoe. He's unable to climb to her but has a satellite phone and can call for help. The regular medevac can't reach her but there's a National Guard unit with some leftover Vietnam era equipment that can. She's rushed to the hospital and survives. While in the tree she was wrapped in (not wearing) a party dress. She doesn't remember anything after being at a party in a city about 100 miles away. 2. Car in a tree - Another backpacker (this isn't a theme, really) finds a car with a tree growing up through it. It's a fairly new car, much newer than the tree. The car fit exactly around the tree except for settling. The hole in the roof of the car looked like it had been cut to fit the tree. The car couldn't have been lowered down on the tree because of the branches. After checking the registration, the police contacted the owner who had reported the car stolen. (Hint: she was going through a messy divorce and there was a stain transmission fluid on the floor of the garage.) 3. Dead in the middle- The people in the eleventh through sixteenth floors of a building (they skipped 13) died of radiation poisoning. The only damage to the building was to the freight elevator which was completely destroyed. In fact, the elevator was almost in pieces. There are indications that the elevator was occupied and there was some sort of equipment inside. The damage to the elevator shaft showed that the elevator was within the area of high radiation. S P A C E 1. Woman in the tree - This one is currently possible. The woman was roofied at the party and the villain decided to get rid of her by putting her in a cargo drone, flying it at low level and dumping her in the middle of the forest. If the fall didn't kill her, she still would likely not be found. 2. Car in a tree - True SF. The woman's ex-husband had access to an experimental prototype teleporter and the damage to the car as well as its condition was the result of a sort reverse tele-frag. The parts of the car that coincided with solid matter at the destination were left behind. 3. Dead in the middle - This is also SF. The person/people in the elevator were moving a cold fusion device that somehow overloaded and acted like a micro neutron bomb. I am perfectly willing to never do this again. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From litalex at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 17:08:42 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:08:42 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, These all sound pretty cool. I think you really should try fleshing them out more and write them yourself? :) little Alex > On Jan 10, 2022, at 10:56, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > No one on this list would confuse me with a writer. However, I've been kicking around ideas for stories about an investigator of strange crimes or just odd things. Some are possible with current technology while others are SF. > For your consideration, here are three puzzles with solutions: > > 1. Woman in a tree - A backpacker breakers camp in the morning an hears someone moaning. He finds a shoe with a stiletto heal in the ground and sees an obviously injured woman high in a tree. She's wearing the other shoe. He's unable to climb to her but has a satellite phone and can call for help. The regular medevac can't reach her but there's a National Guard unit with some leftover Vietnam era equipment that can. She's rushed to the hospital and survives. While in the tree she was wrapped in (not wearing) a party dress. She doesn't remember anything after being at a party in a city about 100 miles away. > 2. Car in a tree - Another backpacker (this isn't a theme, really) finds a car with a tree growing up through it. It's a fairly new car, much newer than the tree. The car fit exactly around the tree except for settling. The hole in the roof of the car looked like it had been cut to fit the tree. The car couldn't have been lowered down on the tree because of the branches. After checking the registration, the police contacted the owner who had reported the car stolen. (Hint: she was going through a messy divorce and there was a stain transmission fluid on the floor of the garage.) > 3. Dead in the middle- The people in the eleventh through sixteenth floors of a building (they skipped 13) died of radiation poisoning. The only damage to the building was to the freight elevator which was completely destroyed. In fact, the elevator was almost in pieces. There are indications that the elevator was occupied and there was some sort of equipment inside. The damage to the elevator shaft showed that the elevator was within the area of high radiation. > > S > P > A > C > E > > 1. Woman in the tree - This one is currently possible. The woman was roofied at the party and the villain decided to get rid of her by putting her in a cargo drone, flying it at low level and dumping her in the middle of the forest. If the fall didn't kill her, she still would likely not be found. > 2. Car in a tree - True SF. The woman's ex-husband had access to an experimental prototype teleporter and the damage to the car as well as its condition was the result of a sort reverse tele-frag. The parts of the car that coincided with solid matter at the destination were left behind. > 3. Dead in the middle - This is also SF. The person/people in the elevator were moving a cold fusion device that somehow overloaded and acted like a micro neutron bomb. > > I am perfectly willing to never do this again. > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to litalex at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From kcollett at hamilton.edu Mon Jan 10 17:13:01 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Katherine Collett) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:13:01 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79185A03-6B14-4375-AE8E-2C505F20DE6F@hamilton.edu> On Jan 10, 2022, at 10:17 AM, John Lennard wrote: > > John: Quite right about teenage drama queens, but there is no evidence that > Romeo is 14. We know Juliet is -- her mother tells us so (and that she is > herself 28, having had Juliet when she was 14) -- but while Romeo is > clearly also adolescent anything between 14 and 19 is possible, and I'd > tend to think 16-17 probable. My daughter Nicola was in a limited-cast production of R&J in graduate school, in which she was both Romeo and Lady Capulet; her portrayal of Lady Capulet made clear that Lady Capulet was afraid of her husband and likely abused (certainly being married at 14 to an older, powerful man would meet our definitions of abuse). > If you really want a splendid retelling of R&J, btw, try Diana Wynne Jones, > *The Magicians of Caprona*. Diana Wynne Jones is always worthwhile. Magicians of Caprona of course includes more than a retelling of R&J -- besides the magic, there's all the Punch and Judy stuff as well. (And for another story with Punch and Judy, there's Aaronovitch's Rivers of London/Midnight Riot -- I was going to say darker retelling, but as Peter Grant points out, you can't really get much darker than the original Punch and Judy story). Katherine From kcollett at hamilton.edu Mon Jan 10 17:20:28 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Katherine Collett) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:20:28 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB70A9F-D26F-4568-B680-3D6679015B3E@hamilton.edu> On Jan 10, 2022, at 3:48 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > Drifting from the topic to something more on-topic: Vor colors would be at the whimsy of the original count who chose the colors, I would suppose.... Also on-topic, Nikys and Adelis dressing in matching (if not identical) outfits to be Penric-as-Mira's servants; "Nikys turned and cut up a voluminous old black skirt for two tabards, which, when she draped them over a black shirt and trousers for Adelis and a dark dress for herself, blended well and gave them both an unified air," along with the matching black masks. > > Drifting further still: I think it's interesting that uniformity in clothing might be a temporary stop along the way . . . that if we get machines that allow us to mix and match sleeves, bodices, necklines, backs, hems, collars, etc., we might be closer to an original variety of clothing. But I think there will always be occasions when we're supposed to dress alike. The online clothing vendor eShakti does this now. Their dresses and skirts also have pockets! www.eshakti.com Katherine From margdean56 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 17:49:53 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:49:53 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 8:17 AM John Lennard wrote: > Sylvia: > And then he sees Juliet and throws over Rosaline before he even > talks to > > Juliet. > > Markus: yes - 14 year olds ... both of them .. > > and like any teenager in that age, drama queens to the nth power > > John: Quite right about teenage drama queens, but there is no evidence that > Romeo is 14. We know Juliet is -- her mother tells us so (and that she is > herself 28, having had Juliet when she was 14) -- but while Romeo is > clearly also adolescent anything between 14 and 19 is possible, and I'd > tend to think 16-17 probable. Tony Tanner (drawing on a remark by > Coleridge) said the play is characterised by "precipitate immoderation", > which is whang in the gold. > Actually Juliet isn't *quite* 14, since the nurse and Lady Capulet discuss her *upcoming* fourteenth birthday ("at Lammas Eve at night shall she be fourteen"). --Margaret Dean > info/lois-bujold > > From tlambs1138 at charter.net Mon Jan 10 17:52:20 2022 From: tlambs1138 at charter.net (Jean Lamb) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:52:20 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books Message-ID: <029201d8064a$d2349e80$769ddb80$@charter.net> Tanith Lee has a fantasy version of R&J, called SUNG IN SHADOW--it's been literally decades since I read it, but I remember it being pretty good. (Of course, I am allowed by the topic to brag about Cathy being Juliet in high school in 2000. She pranked 'Romeo' by having straight vinegar be in his 'potion' and the face he made was definitely in character since it was supposed to be poison. Counterpranks ensued. Plus, the byplay between the Nurse and Peter was, um, unforgettable). Jean Lamb tlambs1138 at charter.net https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 10 18:07:21 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:07:21 +0000 Subject: [LMB] The Barrone Message-ID: What ever happened to Barrone Bharaputra? Lily junior and Rowan escaped and, reading between the lines, the Baron was getting tired of her. Did I miss a denouement? William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From fishman at panix.com Mon Jan 10 18:19:16 2022 From: fishman at panix.com (Harvey Fishman) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:19:16 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: <1D87499D-A384-48E4-BF46-5B9B5747E74A@me.com> <1931566208.872604.1641804896305@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ------ Original Message ------ From: "WILLIAM A WENRICH" To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." Bcc: fishman at panix.com Sent: 1/10/2022 7:54:23 AM Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Phishing >I use a slightly different wording, if contacted by a business, organization, or other group, don?t reply or use any embedded link. contact them through your normal methods (i.e. phone) to verify. > >William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. I use a different sort of winnowing garbage messages. fishman at panix.com is a shell account which presents all messages as text only. But this includes the full headers so that I can trace the real provenance of each message and can ignore all that do not actually come from whom they claim. I then forward my remaining mail to my IP provider (FIOS) where I can use eMail Client to actually read them. It seems to work pretty well for me. Harvey > From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 10 18:20:26 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:20:26 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carol Botteron Micki: ... Vor colors would be at the whimsy of the original count who chose the colors, I would suppose. Carol: Do we know how the counts originally got their specific colors? The High Vor have reasonable combinations, but IIRC some others have awful ones (doesn't someone have chartreuse and red)? Likely the higher ranking ones got to choose first, and maybe after some point they drew numbers. ====================================================== Wasn't there a conversation between Miles and Ivan that said that the counts chose their colors in some order of precedence with the Vorkosigans deinf somewhere in the middle? William A Wenrich May the ultimate source of all things be beneficial to you. From lmb at matija.com Mon Jan 10 18:28:24 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:28:24 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/01/2022 15:56, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: Sounds kinda like CSI meets X-files. CSI Las Vegas actually did one that fit what you were describing (a diver in full scuba gear found atop a tree after a forest fire) I am also reminded of the tales of "Gil the ARM" by Larry Niven, they were mostly high tech "locked room mysteries", where the reader tries to figure out how the deed was accomplished. If you develop a good style, I think people would be interested to read them - obviously there is a market. So now, all you have to do is write the stories. You know what they say: "Writing is easy. All you do is stare at a blank sheet of paper until drops of blood form on your forehead." From howard at brazee.net Mon Jan 10 18:32:18 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:32:18 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D88AD70-88B2-471D-A751-2DEF076984DC@brazee.net> > On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:28 AM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > I am also reminded of the tales of "Gil the ARM" by Larry Niven, they were mostly high tech "locked room mysteries", where the reader tries to figure out how the deed was accomplished. > > If you develop a good style, I think people would be interested to read them - obviously there is a market. > > So now, all you have to do is write the stories. A requirement for all mysteries is for the reader to know the rules. In F&SF, those include the rules of how that universe works. From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 10 18:40:45 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:40:45 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Writing Message-ID: I might try to write them out. My results thus far have been way less than stellar, a short short bounced so fast by Analog that it left scorch marks and an unfinished novel that at this time is unfinishable because of changes in the time line (I needed a mansion with no electricity or telephone access). I have no idea how to get to any fan fic/self-publishing sites. If someone would give me directions and cost, I would appreciate them. Thanks. William A Wenrich May the ultimate source of all things be beneficial to you. From kawyle at att.net Mon Jan 10 18:44:14 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:44:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Writing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1361000348.2808516.1641840254649@mail.yahoo.com> If you get closer to self-publishing in the general marketplace (not fanfic specifically), I can ramble on at great length about that process, including some of the pitfalls to avoid. Karen A. Wyle On Monday, January 10, 2022, 01:41:02 PM EST, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: I have no idea how to get to any fan fic/self-publishing sites. If someone would give me directions and cost, I would appreciate them. Thanks. William A Wenrich May the ultimate source of all things be beneficial to you. From wawenri at msn.com Mon Jan 10 18:54:55 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:54:55 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing Message-ID: I am of two minds about a problem that I've had recently. Almost every time my granddaughters visit my house, that is at least 5 days a week, I'm constantly looking for equipment like headphones or cables the have been "borrowed" and left somewhere around the house. The latest incident was when Hazel borrowed my wireless mouse to do artwork on her tablet. Then she lost it somewhere in the house. After more than a week of searching, I still can't find it. I still have the US wireless connector but the mouse itself has disappeared. I don't know whether to be happy that she set it up herself and was using it for a homework assignment or upset because she operated on the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" principle. I don't want to be to tyrannical, but I'm out a mouse. William A Wenrich A sinner utterly dependent on the grace of God. From wetair at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 19:05:43 2022 From: wetair at gmail.com (Ruchira Mathur) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:05:43 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Writing In-Reply-To: <1361000348.2808516.1641840254649@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1361000348.2808516.1641840254649@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A writing group could help! Getting published is difficult, especially in the pro magazines. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:44 PM Karen A. Wyle wrote: > If you get closer to self-publishing in the general marketplace (not > fanfic specifically), I can ramble on at great length about that process, > including some of the pitfalls to avoid. > Karen A. Wyle > On Monday, January 10, 2022, 01:41:02 PM EST, WILLIAM A WENRICH < > wawenri at msn.com> wrote: > > I have no idea how to get to any fan fic/self-publishing sites. If someone > would give me directions and cost, I would appreciate them. Thanks. > > > William A Wenrich > May the ultimate source of all things be beneficial to you. > > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wetair at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From ravenclaweric at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 19:13:18 2022 From: ravenclaweric at gmail.com (Eric Oppen) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:13:18 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the late Middle Ages, Lords would have their followers dress in their livery. On the battlefield, this was usually a tabard in the lord's colors. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 4:12 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: "M. Haller Yamada" > > I would guess that having everyone in "the same" uniform was something > that rulers were willing to splash out on . . . not sure about for common > people, but maybe?? > > Gwynne: Military uniforms have the advantage that people were less likely > to > attack the wrong ones. Livery for servants is a display of wealth and, by > extension, power. > > In most cases; military uniforms, servants, religious groups, police, etc > - uniforms > made them easily identifiable, which for some groups was important for > emergencies, and for others brought the wearer respect, or donations, or > safety. And it has a definite impact, as a display of unity and power. > > Look at the reactions to the Barrayaran military uniforms, apparently > designed by some libidinous romantic, who came up with a uniform that > displays the wearer to great advantage and inspires strong reactions in > those who see it. (As with Tej, frex. Mind you, Ivan is pretty impressive > in > any outfit.) And Duv's comments to Miles about the shiny boots, and later > '...sugar-plum-fairy...' Those uniforms have PRESENCE. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From jpolowin at hotmail.com Mon Jan 10 19:36:32 2022 From: jpolowin at hotmail.com (Joel Polowin) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:36:32 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howard Brazee wrote: > A requirement for all mysteries is for the reader to know the rules. > In F&SF, those include the rules of how that universe works. Or at least that's what is now considered appropriate for a "fair" mystery, one in which the reader has a chance to solve the puzzle along with the detective / protagonist. I seem to recall Asimov describing that while writing about some of his own stories. Most of the Sherlock Holmes stories are resolved with information that isn't given to the reader until Holmes explains things after the arrest, and I tend to think of them as adventures rather than mysteries on that basis. "I observed that the stone of the bridge had been chipped" and so on. Joel From matt.msg at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 19:40:17 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:40:17 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: <4c0b9c3c-eb74-e17d-8ead-d44b27068eb1@matija.com> References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <4c0b9c3c-eb74-e17d-8ead-d44b27068eb1@matija.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 5:39 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > Influencing the personal choice of other people is not the same thing as > as making a personal choice for yourself > ... yet both involve people making personal choices about ideal breeding practices. I understand you perfectly well, grabnar, which I why I have no respect for you. Matt G. From matt.msg at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 19:43:03 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:43:03 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <4c0b9c3c-eb74-e17d-8ead-d44b27068eb1@matija.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 9:52 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > The Cetans are practicing eugenics with their designer babies. As is everyone who uses gene-cleaning. It's been made clear in the series that choice of gene combinations isn't limited strictly to alleles that directly result in illness. Consider Miles' "joke" about toning down his children's activity level in the gene-cleaning stage. Aborting fetuses with Down's Syndrome is a form of eugenics. So is genetic counseling sought out by minority groups with high rates of genetic diseases. People have no problem with the concept, just the associations of the word. Matt G. From lmb at matija.com Mon Jan 10 20:12:02 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:12:02 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Leaking In-Reply-To: References: <1959ac81-348d-dc7d-da03-09ad806da15f@allums.email> <795497d2-954c-cd8d-ca3c-cf14d8f617a0@matija.com> <9d8e0572-81de-67d4-9cb8-2b268787c565@matija.com> <4c0b9c3c-eb74-e17d-8ead-d44b27068eb1@matija.com> Message-ID: <90713635-1d06-56eb-3c4c-a2fb78fde9c1@matija.com> On 10/01/2022 19:40, Matthew George wrote: > On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 5:39 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > >> Influencing the personal choice of other people is not the same thing as >> as making a personal choice for yourself >> > ... yet both involve people making personal choices about ideal breeding > practices. Nope. People who are thinking if they can afford (financially and emotionally and in many other ways) to support a down syndrome child to adulthood and beyond are not thinking about "ideal breeding practices". > I understand you perfectly well, grabnar, which I why I have no respect for > you. Well, thank goodness for that. If a sexist, racist troll like you respected me, I would have been really worried about the clarity of my posts. From mathews55 at msn.com Mon Jan 10 22:13:24 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:13:24 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <029201d8064a$d2349e80$769ddb80$@charter.net> References: <029201d8064a$d2349e80$769ddb80$@charter.net> Message-ID: Hah! I never read that! I did devour SILVER METAL LOVER, though. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Jean Lamb Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 10:52 AM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books Tanith Lee has a fantasy version of R&J, called SUNG IN SHADOW--it's been literally decades since I read it, but I remember it being pretty good. (Of course, I am allowed by the topic to brag about Cathy being Juliet in high school in 2000. She pranked 'Romeo' by having straight vinegar be in his 'potion' and the face he made was definitely in character since it was supposed to be poison. Counterpranks ensued. Plus, the byplay between the Nurse and Peter was, um, unforgettable). Jean Lamb tlambs1138 at charter.net https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From margdean56 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 22:26:29 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:26:29 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:55 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > I am of two minds about a problem that I've had recently. Almost every > time my granddaughters visit my house, that is at least 5 days a week, I'm > constantly looking for equipment like headphones or cables the have been > "borrowed" and left somewhere around the house. The latest incident was > when Hazel borrowed my wireless mouse to do artwork on her tablet. Then she > lost it somewhere in the house. After more than a week of searching, I > still can't find it. I still have the US wireless connector but the mouse > itself has disappeared. > I don't know whether to be happy that she set it up herself and was using > it for a homework assignment or upset because she operated on the "better > to ask forgiveness than permission" principle. > I don't want to be to tyrannical, but I'm out a mouse. > I don't think you'd be out of line setting a few ground rules for everybody visiting the house, on the order of "Ask first" and "put it back where you found it after you're through with it." If you tell everyone the rules beforehand and they apply to all visitors of whatever age, it won't look like you're pointing fingers at particular people. --Margaret Dean From alzurite at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 23:23:53 2022 From: alzurite at gmail.com (Elizabeth Holden) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:23:53 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Colors Message-ID: Katherine Collett posted: > The online clothing vendor eShakti does this now. Their dresses and skirts also have pockets! www.eshakti.com How - what a great site! Thank you for posting this, Katherine. It's just the kind of clothing shop I've always wanted. namaste, Elizabeth Elizabeth Holden From matt.msg at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 23:34:55 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 18:34:55 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:29 AM Carol Botteron wrote: > In my experience with Middle Eastern dance, members of a group may have > quite different body shapes. Dressing them alike emphasizes this, and can > distract from the unity of their movements. I prefer to dress the dancers > in similar colors (everyone wear some blue and some purple) but allow > variety in styles of sleeves etc. > The Vor are a military caste, their colors are intended for uniforms, and soldiers tend to have much more uniform body shapes than the general population. IIRC, comments from Mark and Miles suggest that the colors were chosen, with order of choice determined randomly. The last to choose had to take whatever remained, such as red-and-green. It's suggested that the reason the Emperor's House has red and blue is that Barra went first. Matt "Kosigan must have been middle of the ranking" G. From sdean at sdean.net Mon Jan 10 23:51:15 2022 From: sdean at sdean.net (Stewart Dean) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 23:51:15 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Cockroach Central isn't alone Message-ID: > Fewer than two hundred thousand people live in the Arctic reaches of Alaska and Canada, and there are no large towns; the Soviet Union, by contrast, sought to populate its north?eastern territories. With the influx of inhabitants, and the construction projects that followed, a new problem arose: buildings create their own heat, warming the permafrost and causing the ground to buckle and squirm. In 1941, the Yakutsk headquarters of the N.K.V.D., the Stalin-?era secret police, sank into the earth, leading one of its walls to split open, spraying plaster over a room of operatives. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/17/the-great-siberian-thaw -- If honor be your clothing, the suit will last a lifetime - William Arnot ...or, more recently: "Once you've done away with integrity, the rest is a piece of cake." -J.R. Ewing ...and: ?It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.? ? Joseph Heller, Catch-22 // Stewart Dean == Kingston, NY From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 00:09:08 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:09:08 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 10:17 AM John Lennard wrote: > Sylvia: > And then he sees Juliet and throws over Rosaline before he even > talks to Juliet. > > (snip) > If you really want a splendid retelling of R&J, btw, try Diana Wynne Jones, > *The Magicians of Caprona*. > Seconded. Also, pretty much anything by DW Jones. Sylvia From wawenri at msn.com Tue Jan 11 01:03:55 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 01:03:55 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Exactly what I did. I wanted to make sure she knew that it upset me however. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Margaret Dean Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 3:26:29 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:55 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > I am of two minds about a problem that I've had recently. Almost every > time my granddaughters visit my house, that is at least 5 days a week, I'm > constantly looking for equipment like headphones or cables the have been > "borrowed" and left somewhere around the house. The latest incident was > when Hazel borrowed my wireless mouse to do artwork on her tablet. Then she > lost it somewhere in the house. After more than a week of searching, I > still can't find it. I still have the US wireless connector but the mouse > itself has disappeared. > I don't know whether to be happy that she set it up herself and was using > it for a homework assignment or upset because she operated on the "better > to ask forgiveness than permission" principle. > I don't want to be to tyrannical, but I'm out a mouse. > I don't think you'd be out of line setting a few ground rules for everybody visiting the house, on the order of "Ask first" and "put it back where you found it after you're through with it." If you tell everyone the rules beforehand and they apply to all visitors of whatever age, it won't look like you're pointing fingers at particular people. --Margaret Dean -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cbc1804c5d7164b95e57e08d9d4884c61%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637774504132362852%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZJDNTaeSKFNnT98Lsln9xNnwL1g4FT%2B0UEenz3S71w8%3D&reserved=0 From mathews55 at msn.com Tue Jan 11 01:50:37 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 01:50:37 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Vor WERE a military caste. When you get to the point that many of them are town clowns or petty bureaucrats, and ship duty is hard to come by, and the Nexus is mostly at peace, what you have is a garden variety aristocracy. Most of those also began as warrior castes. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Matthew George Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 4:34 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Colors On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:29 AM Carol Botteron wrote: > In my experience with Middle Eastern dance, members of a group may have > quite different body shapes. Dressing them alike emphasizes this, and can > distract from the unity of their movements. I prefer to dress the dancers > in similar colors (everyone wear some blue and some purple) but allow > variety in styles of sleeves etc. > The Vor are a military caste, their colors are intended for uniforms, and soldiers tend to have much more uniform body shapes than the general population. IIRC, comments from Mark and Miles suggest that the colors were chosen, with order of choice determined randomly. The last to choose had to take whatever remained, such as red-and-green. It's suggested that the reason the Emperor's House has red and blue is that Barra went first. Matt "Kosigan must have been middle of the ranking" G. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From pouncer at aol.com Tue Jan 11 02:34:01 2022 From: pouncer at aol.com (Pouncer) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:34:01 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <240901161.2227843.1641868221232.ref@mail.yahoo.com> References: <240901161.2227843.1641868221232.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <517ce0c1-91e1-ab93-4cfa-f3df4239394a@aol.com> John Lennard agrees: >while Romeo is clearly also adolescent, anything between 14 >and 19 is possible, and I'd tend to think 16-17 probable. Now do Mercutio. Mercutio seems to me a recently returned veteran -- drunk, stoned, shell shocked, all simultaneously. He's addressing his own craziness by attempting, badly, to re-set his personal history to an age before his horrible, front line wartime experiences. So, maybe 24 or so, not quite a decade older than Romeo, Benvolio, and the other Montague hangers on. He lacks many peers of his own age, of course. Mercutio wears the olive drab remnants of his uniform, adorned with marks and scars of war. Tybalt is of identical age, but trained, and served, in the administrative or logistic or rear-guard echelons. Paris was one of those too well connected to serve at all. Lady Capulet may have lost her first great love -- more likely, "crush" -- to the recent (offstage, distant, unmentioned and almost forgotten) war, and was married lovelessly to the older Lord Capulet, who himself was past military age. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From domelouann at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 02:35:09 2022 From: domelouann at gmail.com (Louann Miller) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:35:09 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Heinlein's Door into Summer is now a (Japanese) movie on Netflix In-Reply-To: <2aaeda2d-8dc2-9d9f-9fea-49e002f9a3db@matija.com> References: <1140397844.11238450.1641678224214.JavaMail.zimbra@his.com> <2aaeda2d-8dc2-9d9f-9fea-49e002f9a3db@matija.com> Message-ID: We just finished the movie on Netflix. In some ways it's a loose adaptation, but I think the Lieutenant would like it. Louann From margdean56 at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 04:01:45 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:01:45 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <517ce0c1-91e1-ab93-4cfa-f3df4239394a@aol.com> References: <240901161.2227843.1641868221232.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <517ce0c1-91e1-ab93-4cfa-f3df4239394a@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:34 PM Pouncer via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > John Lennard agrees: > > >while Romeo is clearly also adolescent, anything between 14 > >and 19 is possible, and I'd tend to think 16-17 probable. > > Now do Mercutio. > > Mercutio seems to me a recently returned veteran -- > drunk, stoned, shell shocked, all simultaneously. He's > addressing his own craziness by attempting, badly, to > re-set his personal history to an age before his horrible, > front line wartime experiences. So, maybe 24 or so, not quite > a decade older than Romeo, Benvolio, and the other Montague > hangers on. He lacks many peers of his own age, of course. > Mercutio wears the olive drab remnants of > his uniform, adorned with marks and scars of war. > I've seen at least one performance of Romeo and Juliet where I very much got that vibe from Mercutio -- psychologically-scarred veteran, anyway. > > Tybalt is of identical age, but trained, and served, > in the administrative or logistic or rear-guard > echelons. Paris was one of those too well connected > to serve at all. Lady Capulet may have lost her > first great love -- more likely, "crush" -- to > the recent (offstage, distant, unmentioned and almost > forgotten) war, and was married lovelessly to the > older Lord Capulet, who himself was past military age. > Tybalt, not so much ... but I do sense an undercurrent of Something Going On between him and Lady Capulet, given how upset she is at his death. And with her being a young wife married to an older man (and likely not his first; her daughter Juliet is his heir, but that's because "the earth hath swallowed all my hopes but she", i.e. there were other children, but they all died), Lady Capulet being attracted to the younger fire-eater Tybalt is certainly plausible. --Margaret Dean > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 06:01:14 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 00:01:14 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I recently reactivated my landline and so far 99% of the calls are either telemarketing or robocalls which I ignore. I also don't answer questions so if ask if I'm me, I'll say, "I'm sorry I'm not interested." Then hang up. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:23 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > Some years ago we were told to avoid saying 'Yes' when a phone > scammer rang. That they ask if you are Person X, knowing that > you probably are, to get you to say "Yes," so that they can record > that, cut it, and make it sound as if you'd consented to whatever > they were selling. > > I don't know if that was ever true, although the warnings at the > time included government spokesbobbles, as well as current > affairs shows (cut to interviews with sad victims of the scam....) > Haven't heard anything about it lately, though - was it ever a real > thing? And is it still? > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 06:38:22 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 00:38:22 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I read, somewhere, someone (I think Mark Twain) commented that the Prussians were deep into wearing uniforms. Even minor government functionaries would even dress up in a uniform that made people think they were either a general or a parade conductor. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:13 PM Eric Oppen wrote: > In the late Middle Ages, Lords would have their followers dress in their > livery. On the battlefield, this was usually a tabard in the lord's > colors. > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 4:12 AM Gwynne Powell > wrote: > > > From: "M. Haller Yamada" > > > > I would guess that having everyone in "the same" uniform was something > > that rulers were willing to splash out on . . . not sure about for common > > people, but maybe?? > > > > Gwynne: Military uniforms have the advantage that people were less likely > > to > > attack the wrong ones. Livery for servants is a display of wealth and, by > > extension, power. > > > > In most cases; military uniforms, servants, religious groups, police, etc > > - uniforms > > made them easily identifiable, which for some groups was important for > > emergencies, and for others brought the wearer respect, or donations, or > > safety. And it has a definite impact, as a display of unity and power. > > > > Look at the reactions to the Barrayaran military uniforms, apparently > > designed by some libidinous romantic, who came up with a uniform that > > displays the wearer to great advantage and inspires strong reactions in > > those who see it. (As with Tej, frex. Mind you, Ivan is pretty > impressive > > in > > any outfit.) And Duv's comments to Miles about the shiny boots, and later > > '...sugar-plum-fairy...' Those uniforms have PRESENCE. > > -- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 06:44:53 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 00:44:53 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There were a series of mysteries that took place in a fantasy universe. The writer discussed how he had to create a set of rules. One story had a victim being propelled out of a second story window by a ball of light. And yet, No evidence of magic being used in his murder. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:36 PM Joel Polowin wrote: > Howard Brazee wrote: > > A requirement for all mysteries is for the reader to know the rules. > > In F&SF, those include the rules of how that universe works. > > Or at least that's what is now considered appropriate for a "fair" > mystery, one in which the reader has a chance to solve the puzzle along > with the detective / protagonist. I seem to recall Asimov describing > that while writing about some of his own stories. Most of the Sherlock > Holmes stories are resolved with information that isn't given to > the reader until Holmes explains things after the arrest, and I tend > to think of them as adventures rather than mysteries on that basis. > "I observed that the stone of the bridge had been chipped" and so on. > > Joel > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 07:21:15 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 01:21:15 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know the feeling of having to search the whole blasted house to look for something missing. Unfortunately, for me, I only have myself to blame for misplacing that bloody item. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:04 PM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > Exactly what I did. I wanted to make sure she knew that it upset me > however. > > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > ________________________________ > From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of > Margaret Dean > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 3:26:29 PM > To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:55 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH > wrote: > > > I am of two minds about a problem that I've had recently. Almost every > > time my granddaughters visit my house, that is at least 5 days a week, > I'm > > constantly looking for equipment like headphones or cables the have been > > "borrowed" and left somewhere around the house. The latest incident was > > when Hazel borrowed my wireless mouse to do artwork on her tablet. Then > she > > lost it somewhere in the house. After more than a week of searching, I > > still can't find it. I still have the US wireless connector but the mouse > > itself has disappeared. > > I don't know whether to be happy that she set it up herself and was using > > it for a homework assignment or upset because she operated on the "better > > to ask forgiveness than permission" principle. > > I don't want to be to tyrannical, but I'm out a mouse. > > > > I don't think you'd be out of line setting a few ground rules for everybody > visiting the house, on the order of "Ask first" and "put it back where you > found it after you're through with it." If you tell everyone the rules > beforehand and they apply to all visitors of whatever age, it won't look > like you're pointing fingers at particular people. > > > --Margaret Dean > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cbc1804c5d7164b95e57e08d9d4884c61%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637774504132362852%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZJDNTaeSKFNnT98Lsln9xNnwL1g4FT%2B0UEenz3S71w8%3D&reserved=0 > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 11 09:09:27 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:09:27 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Carol Botteron Micki: ... Vor colors would be at the whimsy of the original count who chose the colors, I would suppose. Carol: Do we know how the counts originally got their specific colors? The High Vor have reasonable combinations, but IIRC some others have awful ones (doesn't someone have chartreuse and red)? Likely the higher ranking ones got to choose first, and maybe after some point they drew numbers. Gwynne: I'm not sure about the order of choosing; garish colours might be better on the battlefield, so that you could identify your own people really quickly. OTOH the less noticeable ones, like black and silver, or dark brown and silver, might have been more useful if you mostly did guerilla fighting. The Vorkosigans had the Dendarii mountains, so possibly a lot of their early battles relied on stealth and surprise attacks, rather than set battles - that tends to support the theory. So maybe the colour choice depended on the terrain of the District - if you were from the plains, you might have more set battles (I'm thinking of Waterloo-type formations, loosely), all in bright uniforms. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 11 09:23:04 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:23:04 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: John Lennard John: Quite right about teenage drama queens, but there is no evidence that Romeo is 14. We know Juliet is -- her mother tells us so (and that she is herself 28, having had Juliet when she was 14) -- but while Romeo is clearly also adolescent anything between 14 and 19 is possible, and I'd tend to think 16-17 probable. Tony Tanner (drawing on a remark by Coleridge) said the play is characterised by "precipitate immoderation", which is whang in the gold. Gwynne: It's a long time since I hit R&J and I can't remember; was Juliet an only child? I think she was. If her mum was only 28 she should still be having children, by the expectations of that society she should have half a dozen already. So if she didn't, and Juliet is the only one (problems with the birth?) there's a whole other stressor there, for her mother; she's failed in her duty to produce the valuable sons. That would tend to make her put even more pressure on Juliet - as her mother has to deliver the most value she can out of her sole child. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 11 09:25:03 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:25:03 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: WILLIAM A WENRICH I love the ideas; maybe you can flesh them out and connect them somehow - a group of people making challenge stories, or the 'great cases' of some detective...? (Yes, I know it's been done before, but everything has. The interest is in making it fresh again.) From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 11 09:31:19 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:31:19 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Katherine Collett On Jan 10, 2022, at 3:48 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > Drifting from the topic to something more on-topic: Vor colors would be at the whimsy of the original count who chose the colors, I would suppose.... Also on-topic, Nikys and Adelis dressing in matching (if not identical) outfits to be Penric-as-Mira's servants; "Nikys turned and cut up a voluminous old black skirt for two tabards, which, when she draped them over a black shirt and trousers for Adelis and a dark dress for herself, blended well and gave them both an unified air," along with the matching black masks. Gwynne: Yes, and that matching-servant garb explained them, and in a way made them invisible. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 11 09:48:55 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:48:55 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:55 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > I am of two minds about a problem that I've had recently. Almost every > time my granddaughters visit my house, that is at least 5 days a week, I'm > constantly looking for equipment like headphones or cables the have been > "borrowed" and left somewhere around the house. The latest incident was > when Hazel borrowed my wireless mouse to do artwork on her tablet. Then she > lost it somewhere in the house. After more than a week of searching, I > still can't find it. I still have the US wireless connector but the mouse > itself has disappeared. Gwynne: My father had the same problem with his kids (oh yes, that would be ummm... ) At one point he took some string and tied his scissors, tape, etc, to his desk. Gradually the issue was resolved. I'd suggest that you set down the rules, and explain why - mention the missing mouse without saying who took it. You might also suggest that if they lose anything, they have to replace it out of their own pocket-money. I often had interviews with parents who were so frustrated that their darling kids kept on losing their school uniform items - hats, coats, etc - and some of it was very expensive to replace. I'd always suggest that the next missing item was replaced by the child, using their own pocket-money and savings. If the parents did that, just once, the child never lost another item. Suddenly the items had value, instead of just appearing magically, and being constantly replaced at apparently no cost. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 11 09:55:39 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:55:39 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Raymond Collins I recently reactivated my landline and so far 99% of the calls are either telemarketing or robocalls which I ignore. I also don't answer questions so if ask if I'm me, I'll say, "I'm sorry I'm not interested." Then hang up. Gwynne: The only reason I have a landline is that it comes free with my internet package. I never answer it; most of the time - if it's anyone who really wants me they'd leave a message. All the scammers hang up as soon as the message kicks in. Everyone who matters has my mobile number, anyway. (cellphone) My main use for the landline is to call my mobile when I can't find it, so that I can follow the ringtone to wherever I left the darn thing. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Tue Jan 11 09:57:25 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:57:25 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Raymond Collins I know the feeling of having to search the whole blasted house to look for something missing. Unfortunately, for me, I only have myself to blame for misplacing that bloody item. Gwynne: At a certain point it's far less frustrating to just give up and buy a new one. That also guarantees that you'll find the old one. From listmail at gordonj.net Tue Jan 11 12:00:50 2022 From: listmail at gordonj.net (Gordon Jackson) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 12:00:50 -0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> My cat loves to play with AAA batteries, which I don't let him have. He has however discovered that if he relocates my wireless mouse from the desk to the floor with sufficient energy the battery cover door will come off and at least one of the batteries will fly out. Mission accomplished. He then has an AAA battery to carry away and play with. -----Original Message----- From: Lois-Bujold On Behalf Of WILLIAM A WENRICH Sent: 11 January 2022 01:04 To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing Exactly what I did. I wanted to make sure she knew that it upset me however. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God's grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Margaret Dean Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 3:26:29 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:55 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > I am of two minds about a problem that I've had recently. Almost every > time my granddaughters visit my house, that is at least 5 days a week, > I'm constantly looking for equipment like headphones or cables the > have been "borrowed" and left somewhere around the house. The latest > incident was when Hazel borrowed my wireless mouse to do artwork on > her tablet. Then she lost it somewhere in the house. After more than a > week of searching, I still can't find it. I still have the US wireless > connector but the mouse itself has disappeared. > I don't know whether to be happy that she set it up herself and was > using it for a homework assignment or upset because she operated on > the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" principle. > I don't want to be to tyrannical, but I'm out a mouse. > I don't think you'd be out of line setting a few ground rules for everybody visiting the house, on the order of "Ask first" and "put it back where you found it after you're through with it." If you tell everyone the rules beforehand and they apply to all visitors of whatever age, it won't look like you're pointing fingers at particular people. --Margaret Dean -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald .co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cbc 1804c5d7164b95e57e08d9d4884c61%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C 637774504132362852%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZJDNTaeSKFNnT98Lsln9xNnwL 1g4FT%2B0UEenz3S71w8%3D&reserved=0 -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to listmail at gordonj.net Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From howard at brazee.net Tue Jan 11 14:11:44 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 07:11:44 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:01 PM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > I recently reactivated my landline and so far 99% of the calls are either > telemarketing or robocalls which I ignore. I also don't answer questions so > if ask if I'm me, I'll say, "I'm sorry I'm not interested." Then hang up. Were you sorry? From lmb at matija.com Tue Jan 11 14:44:04 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:44:04 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/01/2022 07:21, Raymond Collins wrote: > I know the feeling of having to search the whole blasted house to look for > something missing. Unfortunately, for me, I only have myself to blame for > misplacing that bloody item. A few weeks after I first moved out on my own (decades ago, now), I found myself looking for my glasses. I always wore them while driving, and took them off when I came home. And I always, *always* put them in the same place. Except, this time, they were not there. After a long search, I found them in an unlikely place. I could vividly picture myself angrily berating whoever was living with me about it, because, obviously, they moved my glasses. And they put them where they clearly did not belong (in the fridge). Except, I was alone. And only after a time did I remember that the phone rang just as I came home the day before, so I answered the phone, and while I was talking to the phone, I opened the fridge to see if I needed anything, and I must have put my glasses down there. And when I finished the phone call, I was no longer in the "coming home" mode, so I completely forgot about the glasses, until the next morning. It was a lesson that came in very, very useful once I was no longer living alone: Just because something is not where you *always* put it, it doesn't mean someone moved it. Don't always assume it must be someone else's fault. From sturmvogel66 at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 15:01:11 2022 From: sturmvogel66 at gmail.com (Jason Long) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:01:11 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds like Randall Garret's Lord Darcy series. Clever locked-room mysteries that used generally used science(!) to explain the crimes in a world of magic. All the magical elements were explained to the reader so they could figure out the mystery for themselves. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:45 AM Raymond Collins wrote: > There were a series of mysteries that took place in a fantasy universe. The > writer discussed how he had to create a set of rules. One story had a > victim being propelled out of a second story window by a ball of light. And > yet, No evidence of magic being used in his murder. > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:36 PM Joel Polowin wrote: > > > Howard Brazee wrote: > > > A requirement for all mysteries is for the reader to know the rules. > > > In F&SF, those include the rules of how that universe works. > > > > Or at least that's what is now considered appropriate for a "fair" > > mystery, one in which the reader has a chance to solve the puzzle along > > with the detective / protagonist. I seem to recall Asimov describing > > that while writing about some of his own stories. Most of the Sherlock > > Holmes stories are resolved with information that isn't given to > > the reader until Holmes explains things after the arrest, and I tend > > to think of them as adventures rather than mysteries on that basis. > > "I observed that the stone of the bridge had been chipped" and so on. > > > > Joel > > -- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to sturmvogel66 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From profjenn12 at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 15:11:53 2022 From: profjenn12 at gmail.com (J Woodruff) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:11:53 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know opinions vary on the new *West Side Story *(personally, I loved it) but one thing that occurred to me while watching it - and has occurred to several reviewers whose reviews I've read - is that the bones of the R & J story are much more visible and evident in the structure of the movie than in the older version. JLWT *********** *"der Platz einer Frau ist in ihrer Firma""The problem with the speed of light is it comes so early in the morning." (Albert Einstein)* *"Historiography has then three functions: to entertain our imagination, to gratify our curiosity, and to discharge a debt we owe our ancestors." (C.S. Lewis)"If all we have to offer back to the God of the cosmos is Precious Moments, we're in trouble." (Barbara Nicolosi)* *"Some things are complicated, and denying it only makes them more so." (John Churchill)* *?You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyway.? (Robert Jordan)"The one thing you can't trade for your heart's desire is your heart." (Lois McMaster Bujold)************ On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:09 PM Sylvia McIvers wrote: > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 10:17 AM John Lennard > wrote: > > > Sylvia: > And then he sees Juliet and throws over Rosaline before he even > > talks to Juliet. > > > > (snip) > > If you really want a splendid retelling of R&J, btw, try Diana Wynne > Jones, > > *The Magicians of Caprona*. > > > > > > Seconded. > Also, pretty much anything by DW Jones. > Sylvia > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to profjenn12 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From baur at chello.at Tue Jan 11 15:17:28 2022 From: baur at chello.at (markus baur) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:17:28 +0100 Subject: [LMB] Fwd: OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: if you are afraid about the cats health when playing with AAA's, have you considered buying a few hex-head bolts of roughly the same dimensions and cutting off the head ..? no chemicals in there that might be dangerous for kitty servus markus Am 11.01.2022 um 13:00 schrieb Gordon Jackson: > My cat loves to play with AAA batteries, which I don't let him have. He has > however discovered that if he relocates my wireless mouse from the desk to > the floor with sufficient energy the battery cover door will come off and at > least one of the batteries will fly out. Mission accomplished. He then has > an AAA battery to carry away and play with. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lois-Bujold On Behalf Of > WILLIAM A WENRICH > Sent: 11 January 2022 01:04 > To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. > > Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing > > Exactly what I did. I wanted to make sure she knew that it upset me however. > > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God's grace. > > ________________________________ > From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of > Margaret Dean > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 3:26:29 PM > To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. > > Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:55 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > >> I am of two minds about a problem that I've had recently. Almost every >> time my granddaughters visit my house, that is at least 5 days a week, >> I'm constantly looking for equipment like headphones or cables the >> have been "borrowed" and left somewhere around the house. The latest >> incident was when Hazel borrowed my wireless mouse to do artwork on >> her tablet. Then she lost it somewhere in the house. After more than a >> week of searching, I still can't find it. I still have the US wireless >> connector but the mouse itself has disappeared. >> I don't know whether to be happy that she set it up herself and was >> using it for a homework assignment or upset because she operated on >> the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" principle. >> I don't want to be to tyrannical, but I'm out a mouse. >> > > I don't think you'd be out of line setting a few ground rules for everybody > visiting the house, on the order of "Ask first" and "put it back where you > found it after you're through with it." If you tell everyone the rules > beforehand and they apply to all visitors of whatever age, it won't look > like you're pointing fingers at particular people. > > > --Margaret Dean > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald > .co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cbc > 1804c5d7164b95e57e08d9d4884c61%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C > 637774504132362852%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM > zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ZJDNTaeSKFNnT98Lsln9xNnwL > 1g4FT%2B0UEenz3S71w8%3D&reserved=0 > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to listmail at gordonj.net > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- markus baur SCA: markus von brixlegg schluesselgasse 3/5 tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662 a-1040 wien email: baur at chello.at austria/europe icbm: 48?11'39"N; 16?22'06"E a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html "der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..." From baur at chello.at Tue Jan 11 15:33:52 2022 From: baur at chello.at (markus baur) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:33:52 +0100 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <235cfedc-b073-a19c-2a13-f3cda390341b@chello.at> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt servus markus 01.2022 um 07:38 schrieb Raymond Collins: > I read, somewhere, someone (I think Mark Twain) commented that the > Prussians were deep into wearing uniforms. Even minor government > functionaries would even dress up in a uniform that made people think they > were either a general or a parade conductor. > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:13 PM Eric Oppen wrote: > >> In the late Middle Ages, Lords would have their followers dress in their >> livery. On the battlefield, this was usually a tabard in the lord's >> colors. >> >> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 4:12 AM Gwynne Powell >> wrote: >> >>> From: "M. Haller Yamada" >>> >>> I would guess that having everyone in "the same" uniform was something >>> that rulers were willing to splash out on . . . not sure about for common >>> people, but maybe?? >>> >>> Gwynne: Military uniforms have the advantage that people were less likely >>> to >>> attack the wrong ones. Livery for servants is a display of wealth and, by >>> extension, power. >>> >>> In most cases; military uniforms, servants, religious groups, police, etc >>> - uniforms >>> made them easily identifiable, which for some groups was important for >>> emergencies, and for others brought the wearer respect, or donations, or >>> safety. And it has a definite impact, as a display of unity and power. >>> >>> Look at the reactions to the Barrayaran military uniforms, apparently >>> designed by some libidinous romantic, who came up with a uniform that >>> displays the wearer to great advantage and inspires strong reactions in >>> those who see it. (As with Tej, frex. Mind you, Ivan is pretty >> impressive >>> in >>> any outfit.) And Duv's comments to Miles about the shiny boots, and later >>> '...sugar-plum-fairy...' Those uniforms have PRESENCE. >>> -- >>> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com >>> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk >>> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold >>> >> -- >> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com >> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk >> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold >> -- markus baur SCA: markus von brixlegg schluesselgasse 3/5 tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662 a-1040 wien email: baur at chello.at austria/europe icbm: 48?11'39"N; 16?22'06"E a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html "der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..." From proto at panix.com Tue Jan 11 15:33:53 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:33:53 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: <1D87499D-A384-48E4-BF46-5B9B5747E74A@me.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 9, 2022, at 11:34 PM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > I got an email from my neighbors saying they had arrested in the > Philippines and needed bail money. Since I could look out the window and > seeing them barbecuing, I was pretty certain they where not incarcerated in > the Philippines. It turned out their email password had been hacked and > everyone in their address book got the same email. That?s very strong evidence. ? ?That which doesn?t make us stronger kills us.? From proto at panix.com Tue Jan 11 15:40:16 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:40:16 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8E485992-6E93-4F94-B0D2-7F0AEE437B82@panix.com> > On Jan 10, 2022, at 3:48 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > . With the automated-yet-personal machines available to make uniforms, there might be small differences in fit to make the fighting cogs more efficient, but there wouldn?t be much control over, say, the collar shape or how long the uniform tunic might be (they'd want to present a very uniform presentation as a bunch, so all the uniforms might be tailored by machine to fall precisely one meter from the ground when standing at attention). The US (or Ween) military enlisted were very familiar with ?one size fits none.? ? ?Of all the means to insure happiness throughout the whole life, by far the most important is the acquisition of friends.? ~Epicurus From mathews55 at msn.com Tue Jan 11 15:54:20 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:54:20 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <240901161.2227843.1641868221232.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <517ce0c1-91e1-ab93-4cfa-f3df4239394a@aol.com> Message-ID: Margaret, I think you are absolutely correct. That's brilliant. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Margaret Dean Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 9:01 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:34 PM Pouncer via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > John Lennard agrees: > > >while Romeo is clearly also adolescent, anything between 14 > >and 19 is possible, and I'd tend to think 16-17 probable. > > Now do Mercutio. > > Mercutio seems to me a recently returned veteran -- > drunk, stoned, shell shocked, all simultaneously. He's > addressing his own craziness by attempting, badly, to > re-set his personal history to an age before his horrible, > front line wartime experiences. So, maybe 24 or so, not quite > a decade older than Romeo, Benvolio, and the other Montague > hangers on. He lacks many peers of his own age, of course. > Mercutio wears the olive drab remnants of > his uniform, adorned with marks and scars of war. > I've seen at least one performance of Romeo and Juliet where I very much got that vibe from Mercutio -- psychologically-scarred veteran, anyway. > > Tybalt is of identical age, but trained, and served, > in the administrative or logistic or rear-guard > echelons. Paris was one of those too well connected > to serve at all. Lady Capulet may have lost her > first great love -- more likely, "crush" -- to > the recent (offstage, distant, unmentioned and almost > forgotten) war, and was married lovelessly to the > older Lord Capulet, who himself was past military age. > Tybalt, not so much ... but I do sense an undercurrent of Something Going On between him and Lady Capulet, given how upset she is at his death. And with her being a young wife married to an older man (and likely not his first; her daughter Juliet is his heir, but that's because "the earth hath swallowed all my hopes but she", i.e. there were other children, but they all died), Lady Capulet being attracted to the younger fire-eater Tybalt is certainly plausible. --Margaret Dean > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From john.c.lennard at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 16:42:19 2022 From: john.c.lennard at gmail.com (John Lennard) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:42:19 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books Message-ID: > Side note: as a tragedy of bourgeois teenagers (both Capulets and Montagues > are mercantile, not noble), Markus: which however in the italian renaissance city states made very little of a difference forex: the Medici were bankers (or banksters?) John: True (and I do like banksters), but in Shax it makes a difference. Mercutio (and the County Paris) are kinsmen of the Prince, Tybalt and Romeo are not ; had Mercutio slain Tybalt (after Tybalt had wounded Romeo, say), I doubt he'd have been banished. Mercutio's higher status may also underlie his fatal attempt at peacekeeping. I mentioned it, supporting the domesticity of the tragedy, because a silly number of editors promote Juliet's ma to Lady Capulet, which is an error. The Folio gives her a notable range of speech-prefixes -- Mother, Lady, Old Lady, Wife, Capulet's Wife -- but the uses of 'lady' indicate gender, not rank, and genuine ranks are not often omitted in speech-prefixes of the period. Her false elevation also -obscures- the radical domesticity of the tragedy. Katherine: My daughter Nicola was in a limited-cast production of R&J in graduate school, in which she was both Romeo and Lady Capulet; her portrayal of Lady Capulet made clear that Lady Capulet was afraid of her husband and likely abused (certainly being married at 14 to an older, powerful man would meet our definitions of abuse). John: Yes, I've seen productions go that way (though never Mrs Capulet and Romeo doubled -- fun). But for me it has to gibe with other things (see below), and doesn't always. Margaret: Actually Juliet isn't *quite* 14, since the nurse and Lady Capulet discuss her *upcoming* fourteenth birthday ("at Lammas Eve at night shall she be fourteen"). John: True. Mea culpa, being lazy ; and that makes her birthday 31 July, confirming that it's a summer-time play. Jean: (Of course, I am allowed by the topic to brag about Cathy being Juliet in high school in 2000. She pranked 'Romeo' by having straight vinegar be in his 'potion' and the face he made was definitely in character since it was supposed to be poison. Counterpranks ensued. Plus, the byplay between the Nurse and Peter was, um, unforgettable). John: Heh. And just how Romeo drinks his poison is interesting -- one often sees him take it straight from a vial, but Juliet speaks of a cup in her true love's hand, so decanting it into, mostly obviously, wine would make good sense. But then Romeo has to arrive at the tomb with a winesack and a goblet, and whatall he's doing exactly with Juliet's (supposed) corpse as he claims a last embrace and kiss gets awkward -- which I'll bet shakespeare intended but we now tend to shy from. Pouncer: Now do Mercutio. Margaret: [Mrs] Capulet being attracted to the younger fire-eater Tybalt is certainly plausible. John: Could be, surely, but yu're both being a bit purely intradiegetic/Watsonian for me. Take the Queen Mab speech, frex, which could be all sorts of things but is partly and critically there because of the evident connection with *Midsummer Night's Dream*, probably a season-pair with Rom & Jules in the winter of 1595-96 ; as also witness the presence in Dream of the lamentable tragedy of Pyramus and Thisbe -- which has the same plot as Rom & Jules. And in both plays you also have a core unit of father, daughter, right suitor, wrong suitor, which derives from commedia dell-arte and Plautine comedy. This is also what I meant up-mail in responding to Katherine, because whatever particular character/role interpretations one favours or finds suasive, I think any production of Rom & Jules needs to make some governing decisions about its very uneasy mixes of humour and tragedy. Two examples. 1. In (usually) 4.5, as Juliet is discovered 'dead', all the early texts agree that the Nurse does some extraordinary, repetitive, and wildly histrionic wailing over the (supposed) corpse. Now often cut (which is cowardly), those histrionics are unavoidably OTT, and edging towards funny (cf., interestingly, the wailings of Pyramus for Thisbe, when he wrongly supposes her dead), yet there is no supposition whatever that the Nurse's grief is anything but real, as are the griefs of Juliet's parents. But the paying audience know what Fr Laurence told Juliet about the drug she took, and while first-timers cannot be certain she's alive -- she was imagining Lawrence having lied to her before she takes it, in 4.3 -- they have fair reason to suspect and suppose it. What, though, is the relation between the disturbingly humorous wailings of the Nurse and that suspected knowledge? 2. In the catastrophe, Romeo insists in his lengthy death-speech that Juliet's cheeks are still ruddy (death's pale flag is not advanced there) -- signs, on Fr Laurence's accounting of its symptoms, that the mock-death drug is wearing off. But he takes the poison anyway -- cue groaning, horrified audience -- and dies. For a while there is silence, then Laurence arrives, discovering Paris and Romeo dead, and Juliet just stirring -- and he panics, flaps, says he'll dispose of her in a convent, and legs it in terror of the watch, while she ignores him and everything except Romeo and finding a swift way to kill herself, which she does after speaking only 14 lines (one a dimeter, one a monometer). Authority in a frightful flap is also typically comedic, and funny, and the more so as Laurence has been so calm, authoritative, resourceful throughout acts 1-4 ; but the counterpoint with one of the fastest, most laconic, and terrifying suicides in world drama is excruciating. And I'll bet most anything that that is exactly what Shax intended it to be ; it should IMO take any audience out of its comfort zone, and hard. Such moments with onstage corpses recur often in Shax, and in whatever register slam home -- bleeding Henry in Richard III, Falstaff and Hotspur at Shrewsbury in 1 Henry IV, Hal and his father in 2 Henry IV, Hamlet and Polonius, Thaisa in Pericles, Hermione in Winter's Tale, and in Cymbeline Imogen-as-Fidele laid next to headless Cloten (which has to have been an effigy, but which she also extravagantly mourns) : so ignore one in a play you're in at your peril. I have nothing against -any- particular set of actorly or directorial choices, if they work : but for me working includes how they do or do not negotiate the more disturbing bits of Shax's amazing generic fusion. Gwynne: If her mum was only 28 she should still be having children, by the expectations of that society she should have half a dozen already. So if she didn't, and Juliet is the only one (problems with the birth?) there's a whole other stressor there, for her mother; she's failed in her duty to produce the valuable sons. That would tend to make her put even more pressure on Juliet - as her mother has to deliver the most value she can out of her sole child. John: Yes, some of that's in there, as well as some of what I should here call Ma Mattulich syndrome. But Shax doesn't play that pyschological melody loudly here, because male-line inheritance is not at stake dramaturgically in the way it is when royalty or high nobility are involved, and in 1595-96 he was only on the cusp of his most psychologically concerned period, not yet fully into it. Richard II also points the way, but none of the mid-90s plays have figures equivalent to Hamlet and Cladius, Brutus, Angelo, Othello and Iago ; and they retreat again thereafter -- cf, say, Othello and Leontes as jealous husbands, and how much explanation we do get of Othello's delusion, and how little of Leontes's. Point is simply that in much Shax there does not -have- to be any fully coherent through-line of the kind Stanislavski promoted and method acting picked up : well before we get to the romances/late plays, where characterisation through language is working very differently indeed, the underlying armatures or stock-roles may dictate otherwise, and so may occasional dramatic profit. Even in very psychological Hamlet, Polonius natters on about chastity and dowries in large part because that's what a Plautine senex does, and a Pantalone, even when they've been dropped into a tragedy ; and come act 1 of King Lear, that's why those same things are on his agenda, telling auditors what his structural armature is, setting up expectations that Shax can then twist into pretzels or just blow out of the water as the play develops. JLWT: I know opinions vary on the new *West Side Story *(personally, I loved it) but one thing that occurred to me while watching it - and has occurred to several reviewers whose reviews I've read - is that the bones of the R & J story are much more visible and evident in the structure of the movie than in the older version. John: Haven't seen it yet so I can't say, but one thing about Baz Luhrman's Romeo + Juliet was that it paraded its (deep) debts to West Side Story (gangs, bike chains, leather). Stuff goes around, and comes around. -- John Lennard, MA DPhil. (Oxon.), MA (WU) Associate Member, Hughes Hall, Cambridge Independent Scholar www.humanities-ebooks.co.uk *Mock-Death in Shakespeare's Plays* The first full study of Shakespeare's favourite dramatic device *The Exasperating Case of David Weber, or The Slow Death of The Honorverse* 22 years ago Weber created it and in the last ten he has broken it ... *Tolkien's Triumph: The Strange History of *The Lord of the Rings Just how did a 1000-page book with 6 appendices come to sell 8,500 copies per day? *Talking Sense About *Fifty Shades of Grey*, or Fanfiction, Feminism, and BDSM* The story the media *isn't* telling ... Available from Kindle Stores, and in PDF from the author. From howard at brazee.net Tue Jan 11 17:13:21 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:13:21 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <235cfedc-b073-a19c-2a13-f3cda390341b@chello.at> References: <235cfedc-b073-a19c-2a13-f3cda390341b@chello.at> Message-ID: <5F07BD8A-C846-482E-89CA-41FB3C73E91A@brazee.net> > On Jan 11, 2022, at 8:33 AM, markus baur via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt I suppose someone could pretend to be an admiral and run his own fleet if he was bold enough! From howard at brazee.net Tue Jan 11 17:17:16 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:17:16 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <8E485992-6E93-4F94-B0D2-7F0AEE437B82@panix.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> <8E485992-6E93-4F94-B0D2-7F0AEE437B82@panix.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 11, 2022, at 8:40 AM, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > >> . With the automated-yet-personal machines available to make uniforms, there might be small differences in fit to make the fighting cogs more efficient, but there wouldn?t be much control over, say, the collar shape or how long the uniform tunic might be (they'd want to present a very uniform presentation as a bunch, so all the uniforms might be tailored by machine to fall precisely one meter from the ground when standing at attention). > > The US (or Ween) military enlisted were very familiar with ?one size fits none.? Before mass-produced clothing, the wealthy had tailors, and the poor tried to make do with what they could afford to make. It?s not valid to use Regency Romances as a source, but when clothing was dear, a Red Coat uniform could make a young man very attractive. From kcollett at hamilton.edu Tue Jan 11 17:46:07 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Kathy Collett) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 12:46:07 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6C159436-A70A-4EA7-84B3-8C93A677F2D9@hamilton.edu> On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:42 AM, John Lennard wrote: > > I mentioned it, supporting the domesticity of the tragedy, because a silly > number of editors promote Juliet's ma to Lady Capulet, which is an error. > The Folio gives her a notable range of speech-prefixes -- Mother, Lady, Old > Lady, Wife, Capulet's Wife -- but the uses of 'lady' indicate gender, not > rank, and genuine ranks are not often omitted in speech-prefixes of the > period. Her false elevation also -obscures- the radical domesticity of the > tragedy. > > Katherine: My daughter Nicola was in a limited-cast production of R&J in > graduate school, in which she was both Romeo and Lady Capulet; her > portrayal of Lady Capulet made clear that Lady Capulet was afraid of her > husband and likely abused (certainly being married at 14 to an older, > powerful man would meet our definitions of abuse). > > John: Yes, I've seen productions go that way (though never Mrs Capulet and > Romeo doubled -- fun). But for me it has to gibe with other things (see > below), and doesn't always. Yes, and it was actually Mrs Capulet in the production ? I (in error I see) thought Lady Capulet would be clearer here! Some photos of the production seem to be on Facebook here ? https://www.facebook.com/1596499243907752/photos/a.1792596167631391/1792596180964723/ ? but all the photos of Nicola are as Romeo, not with the bright red shoes with 5-inch heels that she wore as Mrs Capulet. In an even more extremely limited casting, she was in ?A Two Woman Hamlet? a couple of years ago, mostly as Hamlet, but also Laertes and she and the other woman took turns as Gertrude and Ophelia. https://dctheatrescene.com/2018/07/16/review-a-two-woman-hamlet-at-capital-fringe/. The fight scene between Hamlet and Laertes was wonderful. Katherine From margdean56 at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 18:05:42 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 11:05:42 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:23 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Gwynne: It's a long time since I hit R&J and I can't remember; was Juliet > an > only child? I think she was. If her mum was only 28 she should still be > having > children, by the expectations of that society she should have half a dozen > already. So if she didn't, and Juliet is the only one (problems with the > birth?) > there's a whole other stressor there, for her mother; she's failed in her > duty > to produce the valuable sons. That would tend to make her put even more > pressure on Juliet - as her mother has to deliver the most value she can > out > of her sole child. > Yes, Capulet says of Juliet, "The earth hath swallowed all my hopes but she", which I take to mean that she is his only *surviving* child. How this came to be so we're not told; whether the other (deceased) offspring were older than Juliet--perhaps by a previous wife, since the current Mrs. Capulet is so young--or younger, which would argue some sort of fertility issue with Mrs. C ... Not that Shakespeare would know anything about Rh factors, but that sort of thing did happen in his day. I've seen speculation that that might have been Anne Boleyn's problem, why she was able to have one perfectly healthy child (Elizabeth) and then couldn't have any more. --Margaret Dean From proto at panix.com Tue Jan 11 18:27:38 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 13:27:38 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <69388f1d-c6ea-0202-1bfe-a8db21457d12@chello.at> References: <69388f1d-c6ea-0202-1bfe-a8db21457d12@chello.at> Message-ID: <75C12816-3223-4F7E-9C32-1E66F1A0D925@panix.com> > On Jan 10, 2022, at 10:38 AM, markus baur via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > forex: the Medici were bankers (or banksters?) There?s a difference? ? MD. MS. in Law Robert Lustig ?If there?s a label on the food, it?s a warning label. That means it has been processed. Real food doesn?t need a label.? From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Tue Jan 11 19:37:37 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 19:37:37 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13nrtgtm45kmpprng1v57hq6vss438um2d@4ax.com> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 10:47:29 -0700, Margaret Dean wrote: > >It all probably does trace back to heraldry (and flags/banners), which >indeed originated on the battlefield as a way to distinguish friend from >foe. In sports where the two teams mingle / interact with each other, I >suspect team colors *still* have that function, for the players as well as >the spectators. And TV rights, without which most modern sports would struggle considerably more. -- Bloody Foreigner, coming over here, wanting to know what love is. @MatCro From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Tue Jan 11 19:42:00 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 19:42:00 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:23:33 +0000, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > >Some years ago we were told to avoid saying 'Yes' when a phone >scammer rang. That they ask if you are Person X, knowing that >you probably are, to get you to say "Yes," so that they can record >that, cut it, and make it sound as if you'd consented to whatever >they were selling. > >I don't know if that was ever true, although the warnings at the >time included government spokesbobbles, as well as current >affairs shows (cut to interviews with sad victims of the scam....) >Haven't heard anything about it lately, though - was it ever a real > thing? And is it still? AFAIK, it was never true. -- Bloody Foreigner, coming over here, wanting to know what love is. @MatCro From kcollett at hamilton.edu Tue Jan 11 19:43:36 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Kathy Collett) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:43:36 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84E387C7-8E99-4C10-A8C8-C1E9A65C4653@hamilton.edu> And then I sent this ? On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:42 AM, John Lennard > wrote: > > I mentioned it, supporting the domesticity of the tragedy, because a silly > number of editors promote Juliet's ma to Lady Capulet, which is an error. > The Folio gives her a notable range of speech-prefixes -- Mother, Lady, Old > Lady, Wife, Capulet's Wife -- but the uses of 'lady' indicate gender, not > rank, and genuine ranks are not often omitted in speech-prefixes of the > period. Her false elevation also -obscures- the radical domesticity of the > tragedy. > > Katherine: My daughter Nicola was in a limited-cast production of R&J in > graduate school, in which she was both Romeo and Lady Capulet; her > portrayal of Lady Capulet made clear that Lady Capulet was afraid of her > husband and likely abused (certainly being married at 14 to an older, > powerful man would meet our definitions of abuse). > > John: Yes, I've seen productions go that way (though never Mrs Capulet and > Romeo doubled -- fun). But for me it has to gibe with other things (see > below), and doesn't always. Yes, and it was actually Mrs Capulet in the production ? I (in error I see) thought Lady Capulet would be clearer here! Some photos of the production seem to be on Facebook here ? https://www.facebook.com/1596499243907752/photos/a.1792596167631391/1792596180964723/ ? but all the photos of Nicola are as Romeo, not with the bright red shoes with 5-inch heels that she wore as Mrs Capulet. In an even more extremely limited casting, she was in ?A Two Woman Hamlet? a couple of years ago, mostly as Hamlet, but also Laertes and she and the other woman took turns as Gertrude and Ophelia. https://dctheatrescene.com/2018/07/16/review-a-two-woman-hamlet-at-capital-fringe/ . The fight scene between Hamlet and Laertes was wonderful. Katherine From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Tue Jan 11 19:48:20 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 19:48:20 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: <1BC40742-2726-4492-BD83-5F3AB0B5C02D@panix.com> Message-ID: <6nnrtgh4ca4tr3mh25g9u0v7crj32pq9fo@4ax.com> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 15:26:21 -0500, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > >> On Jan 7, 2022, at 7:43 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: >> >> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 05:54:41 -0500, WalterStuartBushell > >> wrote: >> >>> WSB cod-etymolog???????? >> >> When people make up seemingly-plausible origins for words and phrases >> that appeal to people on a narrative level but have no support from >> reality. AKA folk etymology. > > >> >> >> -- >> For most of history, Anonymous was a woman. - Virginia Woolf >> > > >Is that sig an example of cod-etymology? That's not etymology at all. Just snark. -- Bloody Foreigner, coming over here, wanting to know what love is. @MatCro From kcollett at hamilton.edu Tue Jan 11 19:48:23 2022 From: kcollett at hamilton.edu (Kathy Collett) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:48:23 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: <84E387C7-8E99-4C10-A8C8-C1E9A65C4653@hamilton.edu> References: <84E387C7-8E99-4C10-A8C8-C1E9A65C4653@hamilton.edu> Message-ID: Oops, that was supposed to be to my daughter, who is often quite interested in tidbits from the list, even when they aren?t about her. Katherine > On Jan 11, 2022, at 2:43 PM, Kathy Collett wrote: > > And then I sent this ? > > On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:42 AM, John Lennard > wrote: >> >> I mentioned it, supporting the domesticity of the tragedy, because a silly >> number of editors promote Juliet's ma to Lady Capulet, which is an error. >> The Folio gives her a notable range of speech-prefixes -- Mother, Lady, Old >> Lady, Wife, Capulet's Wife -- but the uses of 'lady' indicate gender, not >> rank, and genuine ranks are not often omitted in speech-prefixes of the >> period. Her false elevation also -obscures- the radical domesticity of the >> tragedy. >> >> Katherine: My daughter Nicola was in a limited-cast production of R&J in >> graduate school, in which she was both Romeo and Lady Capulet; her >> portrayal of Lady Capulet made clear that Lady Capulet was afraid of her >> husband and likely abused (certainly being married at 14 to an older, >> powerful man would meet our definitions of abuse). >> >> John: Yes, I've seen productions go that way (though never Mrs Capulet and >> Romeo doubled -- fun). But for me it has to gibe with other things (see >> below), and doesn't always. > > Yes, and it was actually Mrs Capulet in the production ? I (in error I see) thought Lady Capulet would be clearer here! > > Some photos of the production seem to be on Facebook here ? https://www.facebook.com/1596499243907752/photos/a.1792596167631391/1792596180964723/ ? but all the photos of Nicola are as Romeo, not with the bright red shoes with 5-inch heels that she wore as Mrs Capulet. > > In an even more extremely limited casting, she was in ?A Two Woman Hamlet? a couple of years ago, mostly as Hamlet, but also Laertes and she and the other woman took turns as Gertrude and Ophelia. https://dctheatrescene.com/2018/07/16/review-a-two-woman-hamlet-at-capital-fringe/ . The fight scene between Hamlet and Laertes was wonderful. > > Katherine From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Tue Jan 11 20:00:59 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 20:00:59 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3fortgloorvrqmg16gkh2du23eu2mbpg6l@4ax.com> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 09:02:10 -0700, Howard Brazee wrote: > > >> On Jan 8, 2022, at 7:34 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: >> >> Gwynne: (Loved the Romeo and Juliet retelling.) >> Communication also uses facial expression, gestures, body language, >> and intonation. All of which are lost when we use the internet, which is >> probably the cause of a lot of arguments online - just simple lack of >> communication. > >An interesting aspect of this is how domestic dogs evolved to show human emotions. And, perhaps more interestingly, read them. -- Why should I allow that same God to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown His own? - Robert G. Ingersoll From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Tue Jan 11 20:02:39 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 20:02:39 +0000 Subject: [LMB] When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9gortg998hfm45dl1sbbuh9usa6ojksdlp@4ax.com> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 13:10:00 -0500, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > >> On Jan 8, 2022, at 9:42 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: >> >> Gwynne: Totally irrelevant side note: One of my pet hates (and a source >> of a lot of private hilarity at times) is the way people use 'Romeo and >> Juliet' to refer to a romance between two people, or characters. I seriously >> wonder how many people know how the play ends. > >Or that ?West Side Story? is a remake. The same people who don't realise "The Lion King" is Hamlet? -- Why should I allow that same God to tell me how to raise my kids, who had to drown His own? - Robert G. Ingersoll From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Tue Jan 11 20:04:30 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 20:04:30 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <6FCAE522-4206-48B9-87AC-53D0F15088AD@brazee.net> References: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> <6FCAE522-4206-48B9-87AC-53D0F15088AD@brazee.net> Message-ID: <5kortg9s2odfq1m3a139lvv217lfoeiqv4@4ax.com> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:13:32 -0700, Howard Brazee wrote: > > >> On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:02 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: >> >> Fahrenheit does make a *certain* amount of sense: >> >> >> 0 100 >> -------------+-----------+----------+ >> Fahrenheit | too cold | too hot | >> -------------+-----------+----------+ >> Centigrade | cold | dead | >> -------------+-----------+----------+ >> Kelvin | dead | dead | >> -------------+-----------+?????+ > >Only if there?s something special about the number 100. We like round numbers. And a 0-100 scale is used in many scenarios. It was, of course, a jokey observation, and we're in danger of dissecting the frog. > >(I think there is something special about that number when I play golf, but would change my goal if I got halfway good). I'm with Twain on the subject of golf. -- You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.... ... because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources. - The Credible Hulk From Robert_A_Woodward at comcast.net Tue Jan 11 20:27:49 2022 From: Robert_A_Woodward at comcast.net (Robert Woodward) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 12:27:49 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <727A6031-40BC-4BDB-AF3A-67ED1C994454@comcast.net> > On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:23:33 +0000, Gwynne Powell > wrote: > >> >> >> Some years ago we were told to avoid saying 'Yes' when a phone >> scammer rang. That they ask if you are Person X, knowing that >> you probably are, to get you to say "Yes," so that they can record >> that, cut it, and make it sound as if you'd consented to whatever >> they were selling. >> >> I don't know if that was ever true, although the warnings at the >> time included government spokesbobbles, as well as current >> affairs shows (cut to interviews with sad victims of the scam....) >> Haven't heard anything about it lately, though - was it ever a real >> thing? And is it still? > > AFAIK, it was never true. I have had repeated calls from people who started out asking a question that invited the answer ?Yes?. "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement." Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ?----------------------------------------------------- Robert Woodward robertaw at drizzle.com From baur at chello.at Tue Jan 11 20:53:05 2022 From: baur at chello.at (markus baur) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 21:53:05 +0100 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <5kortg9s2odfq1m3a139lvv217lfoeiqv4@4ax.com> References: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> <6FCAE522-4206-48B9-87AC-53D0F15088AD@brazee.net> <5kortg9s2odfq1m3a139lvv217lfoeiqv4@4ax.com> Message-ID: <30245d2d-1c6d-5a94-5f90-60eaf730f7b8@chello.at> and actually - you can survive 100?C air temperature - like in a sauna for example servus markus Am 11.01.2022 um 21:04 schrieb Marc Wilson: > On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:13:32 -0700, Howard Brazee > wrote: > >> >> >>> On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:02 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: >>> >>> Fahrenheit does make a *certain* amount of sense: >>> >>> >>> 0 100 >>> -------------+-----------+----------+ >>> Fahrenheit | too cold | too hot | >>> -------------+-----------+----------+ >>> Centigrade | cold | dead | >>> -------------+-----------+----------+ >>> Kelvin | dead | dead | >>> -------------+-----------+?????+ >> >> Only if there?s something special about the number 100. > > We like round numbers. And a 0-100 scale is used in many scenarios. > > It was, of course, a jokey observation, and we're in danger of > dissecting the frog. >> >> (I think there is something special about that number when I play golf, but would change my goal if I got halfway good). > > I'm with Twain on the subject of golf. > -- > You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.... > ... because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources. > - The Credible Hulk > -- markus baur SCA: markus von brixlegg schluesselgasse 3/5 tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662 a-1040 wien email: baur at chello.at austria/europe icbm: 48?11'39"N; 16?22'06"E a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html "der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..." From lmb at matija.com Tue Jan 11 21:14:16 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 21:14:16 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> <8E485992-6E93-4F94-B0D2-7F0AEE437B82@panix.com> Message-ID: <182d14ff-699d-7442-2387-78166473dbe7@matija.com> On 11/01/2022 17:17, Howard Brazee wrote: > Before mass-produced clothing, the wealthy had tailors, and the poor tried to make do with what they could afford to make. > > It?s not valid to use Regency Romances as a source, but when clothing was dear, a Red Coat uniform could make a young man very attractive. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that queen Catherine made Henry VIII's shirts. Can any of the resident historians confirm? From mvanspanje at home.nl Tue Jan 11 21:17:28 2022 From: mvanspanje at home.nl (Mieke) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 22:17:28 +0100 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > IIRC, comments from Mark and Miles suggest that the colors were chosen, > with order of choice determined randomly. The last to choose had to take > whatever remained, such as red-and-green. It's suggested that the reason > the Emperor's House has red and blue is that Barra went first. > > Matt "Kosigan must have been middle of the ranking" G. > The Vorbarra house colors are black and silver, not red and blue. Red and blue is gala dress for the military. M --------------------------------------------------------------------------Half of what we call madness is just some poor slob dealing with pain by a strategy that annoys the people around him - Lois McMaster Bujold. > Op 11 jan. 2022 om 02:50 heeft Pat Mathews het > > The Vor are a military caste, their colors are intended for uniforms, and > soldiers tend to have much more uniform body shapes than the general > population. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mvanspanje at home.nl > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From pouncer at aol.com Tue Jan 11 22:07:17 2022 From: pouncer at aol.com (Pouncer) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 16:07:17 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: References: Message-ID: John Lennard replies to Pouncer and Margaret. P>>: Now do Mercutio. M>>: [Mrs] Capulet being attracted to the younger fire-eater Tybalt is certainly plausible. John> : Could be, surely, but yu're both being a bit purely >intradiegetic/Watsonian for me. Speaking only for myself, thank you very much! J>Take the Queen Mab speech, frex, which could be all sorts of things >but is partly and critically there because of the evident connection >with *Midsummer Night's Dream*, probably a season-pair with Rom & Jules >in the winter of 1595-96 ; as also witness the presence in Dream of the >lamentable tragedy of Pyramus and Thisbe -- which has the same plot as >Rom & Jules. So for nearly 60 years I've been noticing the R&J and MSND parallels without being instructed in the business side of the theatrical "release" ... Education in my country *sucks*, y'know? ANYHOW, so with the extradigetic/Doylist knowledge of which of the King's Men originally played the role, and assuming he played the character close to his own age* -- how old was Mercutio? And is it fair to guess that Tybalt is, for various reasons, significantly older than Romeo -- and relatively close in age to Mercutio? * How good is the assumption that the character is near the player's age? Given that half the time the character is not the player's SEX, I mean. There is a funny scene in the BBC comedy "Upstart Crow" where Burbage and Condell are playing R & J -- WAY too late in life. -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 00:11:41 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 19:11:41 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 4:57 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > Gwynne: At a certain point it's far less frustrating to just give up and > buy > a new one. That also guarantees that you'll find the old one. > -- > Ooooh yes. So frustrating. Sylvia From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 00:18:13 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 19:18:13 -0500 Subject: [LMB] The other Tybalt, was Rom and Jules, books In-Reply-To: <517ce0c1-91e1-ab93-4cfa-f3df4239394a@aol.com> References: <240901161.2227843.1641868221232.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <517ce0c1-91e1-ab93-4cfa-f3df4239394a@aol.com> Message-ID: > > > Mercutio seems to me a recently returned veteran --... > > Tybalt is of identical age, but trained, and served,... > Completely jumping tracks here... Who read the Toby & Tybalt Finally Get Married book? Naming the wedding book "When Sorrows Come" should be a warning, of sorts. Does anyone know if there will be another book in the series? Sylvia From jelbelser at comcast.net Wed Jan 12 02:23:22 2022 From: jelbelser at comcast.net (Jelbelser) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 20:23:22 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: <727A6031-40BC-4BDB-AF3A-67ED1C994454@comcast.net> References: <727A6031-40BC-4BDB-AF3A-67ED1C994454@comcast.net> Message-ID: > On Jan 11, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Robert Woodward wrote: > > > >> On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: >> >> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:23:33 +0000, Gwynne Powell >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Some years ago we were told to avoid saying 'Yes' when a phone >>> scammer rang. That they ask if you are Person X, knowing that >>> you probably are, to get you to say "Yes," so that they can record >>> that, cut it, and make it sound as if you'd consented to whatever >>> they were selling. >> >> AFAIK, it was never true. > > I have had repeated calls from people who started out asking a question that invited the answer ?Yes?. I have read that someone did a study and found that getting people to respond, particularly with positive words, predisposes those people to feel involved with the conversation, and increases the likelihood that they won?t hang up. Janet in TN From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 06:28:30 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 00:28:30 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's pretty much what I do with my landline. I do have a Tile emitter on my keychain but I'm too lazy to get up and fetch my keys from the key peg by the door. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 3:55 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: Raymond Collins > > I recently reactivated my landline and so far 99% of the calls are either > telemarketing or robocalls which I ignore. I also don't answer questions so > if ask if I'm me, I'll say, "I'm sorry I'm not interested." Then hang up. > > Gwynne: The only reason I have a landline is that it comes free with my > internet package. I never answer it; most of the time - if it's anyone who > really wants me they'd leave a message. All the scammers hang up as soon > as the message kicks in. Everyone who matters has my mobile number, > anyway. (cellphone) My main use for the landline is to call my mobile > when I can't find it, so that I can follow the ringtone to wherever I left > the > darn thing. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 06:44:45 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 00:44:45 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I lost my keys one day. Then We had a huge storm that passed which knocked the power off forcing me to frantically bail out the sump pump well in the basement for several hours. I was totally exhausted. The next day I needed to go out and found out my keys were missing. i searched every where including the sump pump well. Anyway I had another set of keys but the key fob was dead. Anyway four days later I found the keys. I had a box of seltzer water which I put the keys on. They fell through a flap into the box. Drove me crazy. Afterwards I bought a set of Tiles. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 8:44 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On 11/01/2022 07:21, Raymond Collins wrote: > > I know the feeling of having to search the whole blasted house to look > for > > something missing. Unfortunately, for me, I only have myself to blame > for > > misplacing that bloody item. > > A few weeks after I first moved out on my own (decades ago, now), I > found myself looking for my glasses. I always wore them while driving, > and took them off when I came home. And I always, *always* put them in > the same place. Except, this time, they were not there. After a long > search, I found them in an unlikely place. > > I could vividly picture myself angrily berating whoever was living with > me about it, because, obviously, they moved my glasses. And they put > them where they clearly did not belong (in the fridge). Except, I was > alone. And only after a time did I remember that the phone rang just as > I came home the day before, so I answered the phone, and while I was > talking to the phone, I opened the fridge to see if I needed anything, > and I must have put my glasses down there. And when I finished the phone > call, I was no longer in the "coming home" mode, so I completely forgot > about the glasses, until the next morning. > > It was a lesson that came in very, very useful once I was no longer > living alone: Just because something is not where you *always* put it, > it doesn't mean someone moved it. Don't always assume it must be someone > else's fault. > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 06:48:18 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 00:48:18 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Puzzles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, that's him. I think I read all of his Lord Darcy books. Excellent writer. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:01 AM Jason Long wrote: > Sounds like Randall Garret's Lord Darcy series. Clever locked-room > mysteries that used generally used science(!) to explain the crimes in a > world of magic. All the magical elements were explained to the reader so > they could figure out the mystery for themselves. > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:45 AM Raymond Collins > wrote: > > > There were a series of mysteries that took place in a fantasy universe. > The > > writer discussed how he had to create a set of rules. One story had a > > victim being propelled out of a second story window by a ball of light. > And > > yet, No evidence of magic being used in his murder. > > > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 1:36 PM Joel Polowin wrote: > > > > > Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > A requirement for all mysteries is for the reader to know the rules. > > > > In F&SF, those include the rules of how that universe works. > > > > > > Or at least that's what is now considered appropriate for a "fair" > > > mystery, one in which the reader has a chance to solve the puzzle along > > > with the detective / protagonist. I seem to recall Asimov describing > > > that while writing about some of his own stories. Most of the Sherlock > > > Holmes stories are resolved with information that isn't given to > > > the reader until Holmes explains things after the arrest, and I tend > > > to think of them as adventures rather than mysteries on that basis. > > > "I observed that the stone of the bridge had been chipped" and so on. > > > > > > Joel > > > -- > > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > > > > -- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to sturmvogel66 at gmail.com > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 06:59:21 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 00:59:21 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <5F07BD8A-C846-482E-89CA-41FB3C73E91A@brazee.net> References: <235cfedc-b073-a19c-2a13-f3cda390341b@chello.at> <5F07BD8A-C846-482E-89CA-41FB3C73E91A@brazee.net> Message-ID: ? even the burglars had uniforms. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:13 AM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 11, 2022, at 8:33 AM, markus baur via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt < > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Voigt> > > I suppose someone could pretend to be an admiral and run his own fleet if > he was bold enough! > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 07:07:59 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 01:07:59 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <30245d2d-1c6d-5a94-5f90-60eaf730f7b8@chello.at> References: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> <6FCAE522-4206-48B9-87AC-53D0F15088AD@brazee.net> <5kortg9s2odfq1m3a139lvv217lfoeiqv4@4ax.com> <30245d2d-1c6d-5a94-5f90-60eaf730f7b8@chello.at> Message-ID: Imagine what would be like if used the Babylonian system. Today it's 360 degrees and hot! On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 2:53 PM markus baur via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > and actually - you can survive 100?C air temperature - like in a sauna > for example > > servus > > markus > > Am 11.01.2022 um 21:04 schrieb Marc Wilson: > > On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 07:13:32 -0700, Howard Brazee > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >>> On Jan 7, 2022, at 4:02 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > >>> > >>> Fahrenheit does make a *certain* amount of sense: > >>> > >>> > >>> 0 100 > >>> -------------+-----------+----------+ > >>> Fahrenheit | too cold | too hot | > >>> -------------+-----------+----------+ > >>> Centigrade | cold | dead | > >>> -------------+-----------+----------+ > >>> Kelvin | dead | dead | > >>> -------------+-----------+?????+ > >> > >> Only if there?s something special about the number 100. > > > > We like round numbers. And a 0-100 scale is used in many scenarios. > > > > It was, of course, a jokey observation, and we're in danger of > > dissecting the frog. > >> > >> (I think there is something special about that number when I play golf, > but would change my goal if I got halfway good). > > > > I'm with Twain on the subject of golf. > > -- > > You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.... > > ... because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources. > > - The Credible Hulk > > > > > -- > markus baur SCA: markus von brixlegg > schluesselgasse 3/5 tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662 > a-1040 wien email: baur at chello.at > austria/europe icbm: 48?11'39"N; 16?22'06"E > > a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html > > "der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..." > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 07:15:59 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 01:15:59 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <182d14ff-699d-7442-2387-78166473dbe7@matija.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> <8E485992-6E93-4F94-B0D2-7F0AEE437B82@panix.com> <182d14ff-699d-7442-2387-78166473dbe7@matija.com> Message-ID: I read an article about the Norwegian military. Apparently when a service person leaves the army they have to return their uniforms. What makes it icky is now they also have to turn in their underwear and socks because of a shortage. I'd just rather wear my own underwear thank you very much. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 3:14 PM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On 11/01/2022 17:17, Howard Brazee wrote: > > Before mass-produced clothing, the wealthy had tailors, and the poor > tried to make do with what they could afford to make. > > > > It?s not valid to use Regency Romances as a source, but when clothing > was dear, a Red Coat uniform could make a young man very attractive. > I seem to remember hearing somewhere that queen Catherine made Henry > VIII's shirts. Can any of the resident historians confirm? > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 07:18:41 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 01:18:41 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: <727A6031-40BC-4BDB-AF3A-67ED1C994454@comcast.net> Message-ID: Just being polite. That's all. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 8:24 PM Jelbelser wrote: > > > > On Jan 11, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Robert Woodward < > Robert_A_Woodward at comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Marc Wilson > wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:23:33 +0000, Gwynne Powell > >> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> Some years ago we were told to avoid saying 'Yes' when a phone > >>> scammer rang. That they ask if you are Person X, knowing that > >>> you probably are, to get you to say "Yes," so that they can record > >>> that, cut it, and make it sound as if you'd consented to whatever > >>> they were selling. > >> > >> AFAIK, it was never true. > > > > I have had repeated calls from people who started out asking a question > that invited the answer ?Yes?. > > I have read that someone did a study and found that getting people to > respond, particularly with positive words, predisposes those people to feel > involved with the conversation, and increases the likelihood that they > won?t hang up. > > Janet in TN > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From lmb at matija.com Wed Jan 12 08:49:35 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 08:49:35 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> <8E485992-6E93-4F94-B0D2-7F0AEE437B82@panix.com> <182d14ff-699d-7442-2387-78166473dbe7@matija.com> Message-ID: Ah ...? in the Yugoslav military, when you sent X pieces of Y size underwear to the wash, you immediately got back X pieces of approximately size Y. You marked shirts and pants with your name, and you would mostly get them back from the wash, but not your underwear. If you had wanted to have your own pair of underwear, you would have had to wash it yourself. I don't know of anybody who did that. Not only we didn't have time to do it, but the only hot water to be had was in the showers, and that was for showers, one company at a time. No, the per-company washrooms did not have hot water. No, not even for shaving. Most of us learned to shave with cold water, so we didn't know what we were missing. No mirrors, either. If you wanted to shave with a mirror, you had to bring your own. I can still shave without a mirror. This modern military, tsssk. I wonder if they even shine their own boots. :-) On 12/01/2022 07:15, Raymond Collins wrote: > I read an article about the Norwegian military. Apparently when a service > person leaves the army they have to return their uniforms. What makes it > icky is now they also have to turn in their underwear and socks because of > a shortage. I'd just rather wear my own underwear thank you very much. > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 3:14 PM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > >> On 11/01/2022 17:17, Howard Brazee wrote: >>> Before mass-produced clothing, the wealthy had tailors, and the poor >> tried to make do with what they could afford to make. >>> It?s not valid to use Regency Romances as a source, but when clothing >> was dear, a Red Coat uniform could make a young man very attractive. >> I seem to remember hearing somewhere that queen Catherine made Henry >> VIII's shirts. Can any of the resident historians confirm? >> -- >> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com >> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk >> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold >> From listmail at gordonj.net Wed Jan 12 11:43:30 2022 From: listmail at gordonj.net (Gordon Jackson) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:43:30 -0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d807a9$a0d12c40$e27384c0$@gordonj.net> I use Alexa for that: "Alexa, call my phone." >My main use for the landline is to call my mobile >when I can't find it, so that I can follow the ringtone to wherever I left the darn thing. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 11:52:45 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:52:45 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Margaret Dean On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:23 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > Gwynne: It's a long time since I hit R&J and I can't remember; was Juliet > an only child? I think she was. If her mum was only 28 she should still be > having children, by the expectations of that society she should have half| a dozen already. So if she didn't, and Juliet is the only one (problems with the > birth?) there's a whole other stressor there, for her mother; she's failed in her > duty to produce the valuable sons. That would tend to make her put even more > pressure on Juliet - as her mother has to deliver the most value she can > out of her sole child. Yes, Capulet says of Juliet, "The earth hath swallowed all my hopes but she", which I take to mean that she is his only *surviving* child. How this came to be so we're not told; whether the other (deceased) offspring were older than Juliet--perhaps by a previous wife, since the current Mrs. Capulet is so young--or younger, which would argue some sort of fertility issue with Mrs. C ... Not that Shakespeare would know anything about Rh factors, but that sort of thing did happen in his day. I've seen speculation that that might have been Anne Boleyn's problem, why she was able to have one perfectly healthy child (Elizabeth) and then couldn't have any more. --Margaret Dean Gwynne: The audience at the time would know about the pressure for a wife of a rich man to have sons, so they'd probably see more in the speeches, and in the situation. No matter how we try, we miss some of that extra cultural and social knowledge that adds other perspectives. I saw an interesting 'Measure for Measure' years ago (a most neglected gem, in my opinion, and it'd be a wonderful play for our times) that had three screens at the back of the stage. As the players spoke, the screens would show images that were some of the knowledge the characters would be bringing to the situation; when they talked about executions, the screens would show images of someone being prepared for a hanging. It did give more understanding of the characters (of course, you had to process a lot of input at the same time.) From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 11:58:03 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:58:03 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They're going to the next level. Today I received a text telling me that my parcel can't be delivered tomorrow, click here for more details. I don't have any parcels due. Nothing ordered since before Christmas, and I've received it all. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 11:59:00 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:59:00 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: markus baur and actually - you can survive 100?C air temperature - like in a sauna for example markus Gwynne: Or Sydney in summer. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 12:04:06 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:04:06 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Or forest fires, for the non-Aussies. I hope that everyone in WA (Western Australia) are safe. You guys have had a bad summer fire season already. From john.c.lennard at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 12:24:43 2022 From: john.c.lennard at gmail.com (John Lennard) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:24:43 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Hamlet, was Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books Message-ID: Katherine: In an even more extremely limited casting, she was in ?A Two Woman Hamlet? a couple of years ago, mostly as Hamlet, but also Laertes and she and the other woman took turns as Gertrude and Ophelia. https://dctheatrescene.com/2018/07/16/review-a-two-woman-hamlet-at-capital-fringe/. The fight scene between Hamlet and Laertes was wonderful. John: I bet -- it sounds marvellous. Was Ophelia's grave involved? In the early texts (Q1, Q2, F) only Q1 has Hamlet leap into the grave, and how it might have been staged is a poser. Sure, there's the stage-trap, but was it really big enough for two people to fight *in*? And what could spectators see if Hamlet and Laertes did jump in? Problems, problems. My favourite version is the one in *Twin Peaks*, at Laura's funeral, where her two boyfriends fight, and crash into the grave on top of the lowered coffin -- sending the auto-lowerer into cycle so they are both in the grave, then out of it, then in it again, then out again ... -- John Lennard, MA DPhil. (Oxon.), MA (WU) Associate Member, Hughes Hall, Cambridge Independent Scholar www.humanities-ebooks.co.uk *Mock-Death in Shakespeare's Plays* The first full study of Shakespeare's favourite dramatic device *The Exasperating Case of David Weber, or The Slow Death of The Honorverse* 22 years ago Weber created it and in the last ten he has broken it ... *Tolkien's Triumph: The Strange History of *The Lord of the Rings Just how did a 1000-page book with 6 appendices come to sell 8,500 copies per day? *Talking Sense About *Fifty Shades of Grey*, or Fanfiction, Feminism, and BDSM* The story the media *isn't* telling ... Available from Kindle Stores, and in PDF from the author. From wawenri at msn.com Wed Jan 12 13:41:57 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:41:57 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Go me, the standard is as soon as I get a new one, that?s when I?ll find the other. By the rule, I'll find it tomorrow. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Sylvia McIvers Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022 5:11:41 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 4:57 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > Gwynne: At a certain point it's far less frustrating to just give up and > buy > a new one. That also guarantees that you'll find the old one. > -- > Ooooh yes. So frustrating. Sylvia -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc632ce13369b47d96dda08d9d5602954%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637775431255989949%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=nveciwKitegPJe4BehbigLEVnVRVxHN0l1nHfqpUt4s%3D&reserved=0 From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 12 13:43:35 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 06:43:35 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25932296-0967-4CA5-A68D-F3BAAC050E7A@brazee.net> > On Jan 12, 2022, at 5:04 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Or forest fires, for the non-Aussies. > > I hope that everyone in WA (Western Australia) are safe. You > guys have had a bad summer fire season already. Winter fires are bad too. Last week my neighborhood lost 1000 houses. The next day was our first snow of the season. From john.c.lennard at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 14:08:59 2022 From: john.c.lennard at gmail.com (John Lennard) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 14:08:59 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: Message-ID: Pouncer: So for nearly 60 years I've been noticing the R&J and MSND parallels without being instructed in the business side of the theatrical "release" ... Education in my country *sucks*, y'know? ANYHOW, so with the extradiegetic/Doylist knowledge of which of the King's Men originally played the role, and assuming he played the character close to his own age* -- how old was Mercutio? And is it fair to guess that Tybalt is, for various reasons, significantly older than Romeo -- and relatively close in age to Mercutio? * How good is the assumption that the character is near the player's age? Given that half the time the character is not the player's SEX, I mean. There is a funny scene in the BBC comedy "Upstart Crow" where Burbage and Condell are playing R & J -- WAY too late in life. John [rolls up sleeves]: Let's take the last question first -- the age of actors in relation to roles played. Same-age, same-sex casting is a phenomenon generated by cinema and TV, which use close-ups, and spread to theatre because actors' and directors' eyes and minds are now trained by cameras too. Currently, the first major Shax role a male actor will be offered is Romeo, the last King Lear. But in the early C18 Betterton last played Romeo when 71, IIRC, and a few decades later Garrick first played King Lear at 24. Think opera now, where casting is for voice, not age or plausibility of appearance ; or consider that if Burbage created both Hamlet and Lear, he did so at most six years apart, and would have been about 33 when he played Hamlet and 39 when he played Lear (with Othello, Angelo, Macbeth, and perhaps Troilus in-between). So for Shax there was no intrinsic or inherent link between an actor's age and that of a role played, with one putative exception. Older female roles are scarce in the mid-canon: before 1594 there are some in the first tetralogy (Queen Margaret, most obviously), but once the Lord Chamberlain's Men are up and running, from 1594, there's the Nurse in ROM and really not a lot more with the fascinating exception/s of Beatrice, clearly older than Hero and possessed of a history with Benedick, and perhaps the Princess in LLL. The other heroines seem, like Juliet, clearly teenage -- Sylvia and Julia, Lavinia, Helena and Hermia, Portia and Nerissa, Rosalind and Celia, Cressida, Ophelia, Desdemona: no reason to think any of them much above 16, if that -- so one might say that while being played by pre-pubescent boys did not make them at all masculine, it did tend to keep them young. But in the later career there is a striking run of older female roles -- Lady Mac, Goneril, the Countess in AWW, Cleopatra, Volumnia, Thaisa, Hermione : the career 9-15 of a single boy who could for whatever reason perform 'older' well? It seems at least plausible as an explanation, and there isn't much of any alternative that anyone's come up with. So there is no historical basis for assigning any particular age to Mercutio or Tybalt. We don't know who created the roles (though we have a limited pool of possibles in company members), and there is no explicit or compelling internal evidence (as there is for Juliet and Hamlet). It's fair to guess as seems good to one's take on things, but it remains a guess. They could be older, but one could counter that Romeo, Mercutio, and Benvolio seem to come as a trio and more closely resemble a group of schoolmates than two younglings and an older mentor ; and if Tybalt is older, he hasn't learned anger management. Where one does have a clearly older/younger male pair, as with Benedick and Claudio, that sort of thing is shown -- which one could contend it is between Romeo and Mercutio ; but then what of Benvolio (before he oddly disappears)? Pay your money and make your choice. On the season-pairs, that's mostly me because I too am fed up with editors and critics not dealing with it. Shax became a sharer in his company in 1594, meaning he then had a say in scheduling and casting ; and he swiftly embarked on his most ambitious theatrical structure, the second tetralogy, R2, 1 & 2 H4, H5, 1595/6-99, steering it from almost pure tragedy to the comedic ending of Henry V's marriage. And on either side one finds pairs of comedy/tragedy which are (so far as we can tell) very close in date -- ROM and MND, HAM and TN. I call them season-pairs, plays that ran in close juxtaposition, probably with additional links in thematic cross-casting, and see them as further parts of the man's career-long restless exploration of how to fuse tragedy and comedy -- not into a mixture, but into a compound with properties as distinct from either component as salt from sodium and chlorine. With the company involved, one also has to look to what else they were doing, and late in the career The Tempest and Jonson's The Alchemist are another probable season-pair. HAM and TN are a subtler pair -- think mismourners (too little, like Gertrude, too much, like Olivia), brothers and sisters and drowning (Viola & Sebastian, Laertes & Ophelia), odd couples (Sir Toby & Sir Andrew, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern), and revenging fools (Feste, Hamlet in his antic disposition), with prating older men of dubious authority who are wrongly victimised (Malvolio, Polonius) ; and add thematic casting to link them, as the fat + thin odd couple who played Sir Toby and Sir Andrew very probably played Ros and Guil. (Thin one was probably a man called Sinclair.) It's even possible, if Burbage created Claudius (a very substantial role related to the English kings we believe he created during the 1590s), that Armin created Hamlet, as he very probably created Feste. Line the plays up like this, let them talk, and they do all sorts of really interesting mutual interrogation. ROM and MND are an earlier, maybe first, attempt, and less subtle : the Queen Mab speech stands out as unlike anything else in ROM, and the closest link in MND is also discrete, the inset performance of Pyramus & Thisbe. Structures also diverge, ROM being very bipolar (though Laurence is in the middle) and MND tripolar (court + lovers, mechanicals, fairies). But one can still say that what happens in ROM is the result of inflexibility, and what is averted in MND is so because the Duke relents when he gets into the woods, and those laws he was so adamant in act 1 about not being able to extenuate go out the window ; the sharpest contrast is between the grieving, pointless decision to memorialise R&J in golden statues, and the six newlyweds giggling at the terrible performance of P&T, which memorialises a pair of suicidal teenagers just like R&J, before retiring to their marriage-beds with fairy blessings on their children-to-be. Underline in performances by the same actors, and seeing them back-to-back ... well, I've never had the chance, but I reckon you'd know that you'd been tangoed. The underlying condition driving such multi-play thinking is cut-throat competition : a theatre that could hold up to 3,000 in a city with a total permanent population under 200,000 ; and several other theatres on offer, plus bear-baiting and whatever ... and now feed in the frequency and duration of plague closures, when you still have to live but have no box-office income ... so when you can play, you need an edge, and a *lot* of repeat business, meaning good word of mouth, and whatever publicity you can generate. Plays could not be less than a free-standing afternoon's entertainment, but you had to try to make them more. Events like the so-called Poetomachia (War of the Poets) of 1599-1601 can also be seen as fairly put-up jobs ; so too, say, the supposed and dramatised 'theft' by the (then) King's Men of Marston's *The Malcontent* in 1604. And pair plays, from Tamburlaine to Henry IV to Chapman's Byron plays : get hooked and ... heeere's a sequel. Business- and publicity-wise, there's also publishing to consider. Shax rewrote four anonymous plays that originally belonged (in the 1580s-early 90s) to the Queen's Men : *The Troublesome Raigne of King Iohn*, *The Famous Victories of Henry V*, *The True Tragedy of Richard III*, and *The True Chronicle History of King Leir*. Troublesome Raign was printed in 1591, and Shakespeare's King John was not printed until it appeared in F in 1623 ; but the others show a very suggestive pattern: True Tragedy - printed 1594 ; Shax's R3 first acted c.1594, printed 1597 Famous Victories - printed 1598 ; Shax's H5 first acted c.1599, printed 1600 King Leir -- printed 1605 ; Shax's King Lear first acted 1606, printed 1608 Or, disseminate the old version in print, perhaps with a stage revival, so when Shax turns everything on its head in his version, the shock is magnified. Put another way, the bleakness of King Lear is greatly increased if one is familiar with King Leir, where everything works out nicely ; so Shax and his company, being sensible people, made sure auditors had every chance to be so familiar. Plus, you could get a cut of sales of the old play, and then sell folk the new one that just whacked them upside their assumptions. [rolls down sleeves] More on all this in the first book in my sig -- ;-) And I'll add that if any listee can demonstrate to me that they have bought the currently available 1/e (which as a reflowable has endnotes), I'm happy to supply them with a PDF of the as yet unpublished 2/e (which has footnotes, as well as substantial additions). -- John Lennard, MA DPhil. (Oxon.), MA (WU) Associate Member, Hughes Hall, Cambridge Independent Scholar www.humanities-ebooks.co.uk *Mock-Death in Shakespeare's Plays* The first full study of Shakespeare's favourite dramatic device *The Exasperating Case of David Weber, or The Slow Death of The Honorverse* 22 years ago Weber created it and in the last ten he has broken it ... *Tolkien's Triumph: The Strange History of *The Lord of the Rings Just how did a 1000-page book with 6 appendices come to sell 8,500 copies per day? *Talking Sense About *Fifty Shades of Grey*, or Fanfiction, Feminism, and BDSM* The story the media *isn't* telling ... Available from Kindle Stores, and in PDF from the author. From proto at panix.com Wed Jan 12 14:10:27 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 09:10:27 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56B2A019-C43C-42B3-9032-5175FBA57DA7@panix.com> > On Jan 12, 2022, at 6:58 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > They're going to the next level. Today I received a text > telling me that my parcel can't be delivered tomorrow, > click here for more details. > > I don't have any parcels due. Nothing ordered since > before Christmas, and I?ve received it all. I?ve been getting these for years. ? It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.? ?W. K. Clifford (1845?1879), ?The Ethics? My take is belief should be proportional to the evidence. From kawyle at att.net Wed Jan 12 14:39:20 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 14:39:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Rom and Jules, was When World-Views Collide, books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <173563794.3416626.1641998360845@mail.yahoo.com> I love that idea! Karen A. Wyle On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 06:53:00 AM EST, Gwynne Powell wrote: Gwynne: The audience at the time would know about the pressure for a wife of a rich man to have sons, so they'd probably see more in the speeches, and in the situation. No matter how we try, we miss some of that extra cultural and social knowledge that adds other perspectives. I saw an interesting 'Measure for Measure' years ago (a most neglected gem, in my opinion, and it'd be a wonderful play for our times) that had three screens at the back of the stage. As the players spoke, the screens would show images that were some of the knowledge the characters would be bringing to the situation; when they talked about executions, the screens would show images of someone being prepared for a hanging. It did give more understanding of the characters (of course, you had to process a lot of input at the same time.) -- From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 15:06:51 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:06:51 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Howard Brazee > On Jan 12, 2022, at 5:04 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > Or forest fires, for the non-Aussies. > I hope that everyone in WA (Western Australia) are safe. You > guys have had a bad summer fire season already. Winter fires are bad too. Last week my neighborhood lost 1000 houses. The next day was our first snow of the season. Gwynne: That sounds horrific, Howard - stay safe, and take care. From jpolowin at hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 17:20:52 2022 From: jpolowin at hotmail.com (Joel Polowin) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:20:52 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: markus baur wrote: > and actually - you can survive 100?C air temperature - like in a sauna > for example A sauna is steamy, but not temperature-of-boiling-water steamy. If the temperature were really that high, the vapour pressure of water would be 1 atm; there wouldn't be any oxygen. And you'd destroy your lungs if you managed to take a breath. At most, the steam entering the room is at 100', but is then diluted and cooled by the air. Exposure to steam at 100', even momentarily, is *intensely* painful, as it condenses on the skin and transfers all of that heat energy. I'm saying this from recent experience, having accidentally put my hand in the plume of a steam-based humidifier. Instant scald. Joel From margdean56 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 17:52:30 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 10:52:30 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 7:09 AM John Lennard wrote: > > > > Same-age, same-sex casting is a > phenomenon generated by cinema and TV, which use close-ups, and spread to > theatre because actors' and directors' eyes and minds are now trained by > Though I think that live theater is still more inherently flexible in this way than filmed drama is, because it's already asking more collaboration from the audience, more of an effort of imagination in creating the play's reality -- the sort of thing Shakespeare makes explicit in the prologue to Henry V, for instance: essentially, "You folks are going to have to help us out here if we're going to recreate the battle of Agincourt in this 'wooden O'." So if the audience can pick up on a line like, "Well, this is the Forest of Arden" and help imagine the actors into a forest, they're not going to boggle at trifles like an actor's age or sex (or, nowadays, complexion) not being identical with their character's. > > > The other heroines seem, like Juliet, clearly teenage -- Sylvia and > Julia, Lavinia, Helena and Hermia, Portia and Nerissa, Rosalind and Celia, > Cressida, Ophelia, Desdemona: no reason to think any of them much above 16, > if that -- so one might say that while being played by pre-pubescent boys > did not make them at all masculine, it did tend to keep them young. > I remember my Shakespeare prof in college pointing out indications in the plays that there may have been "the short dark one" (Hermia, Celia) and "the tall blonde one" (Helena, Rosalind). --Margaret Dean From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Wed Jan 12 17:59:44 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:59:44 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: John Lennard I clipped it for brevity, but that was a wonderful post - thank you, John! From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 12 19:28:39 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:28:39 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: <25932296-0967-4CA5-A68D-F3BAAC050E7A@brazee.net> References: <25932296-0967-4CA5-A68D-F3BAAC050E7A@brazee.net> Message-ID: <73ECAE4B-BD8A-4132-868B-50F29ACC53AD@me.com> On Jan 12, 2022, at 5:43 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: > >> On Jan 12, 2022, at 5:04 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: >> >> Or forest fires, for the non-Aussies. >> >> I hope that everyone in WA (Western Australia) are safe. You >> guys have had a bad summer fire season already. > > Winter fires are bad too. Last week my neighborhood lost 1000 houses. The next day was our first snow of the season. Gah! What US State? I know what state they?re in: disastrous. Marinas From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 12 19:30:15 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:30:15 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7171F624-AF93-4B92-9050-7600011ADE79@me.com> On Jan 12, 2022, at 4:04 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > Or forest fires, for the non-Aussies. > > I hope that everyone in WA (Western Australia) are safe. You > guys have had a bad summer fire season already. This Californian wishes the same! Marina From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 12 20:25:05 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:25:05 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: <73ECAE4B-BD8A-4132-868B-50F29ACC53AD@me.com> References: <25932296-0967-4CA5-A68D-F3BAAC050E7A@brazee.net> <73ECAE4B-BD8A-4132-868B-50F29ACC53AD@me.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 12, 2022, at 12:28 PM, A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold wrote: > >> Winter fires are bad too. Last week my neighborhood lost 1000 houses. The next day was our first snow of the season. > > Gah! What US State? I know what state they?re in: disastrous. Colorado From saffronrose at me.com Wed Jan 12 20:46:57 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:46:57 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50BADA05-1014-4A98-A37C-A280BA323DE7@me.com> On Jan 12, 2022, at 3:58 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > They're going to the next level. Today I received a text > telling me that my parcel can't be delivered tomorrow, > click here for more details. > > I don't have any parcels due. Nothing ordered since > before Christmas, and I've received it all. I had one of those & ignored it?I wasn?t expecting any, either. The weirdest thing was that yesterday I got an internal Unilever email where I was listed with employees of the company. I don?t know the sender, or any other recipients, and have no clue why I should get this. I replied to the sender, suggesting that their security might not be working well. A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From proto at panix.com Wed Jan 12 22:19:21 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:19:21 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Dolphin anatomy very OT: Message-ID: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/science/dolphins-clitoris-sex.html How can anything human be irrelevant to this list? We read Bujold as an examination of humanity, or at least that?s my reason. Her strategy ?What?s the worst thing I can do to my protagonists (usually without killing them.) ? is a method of stress testing. Casaril actually died (temporarily then the Lady undied[1] him), in _Cryoburn_ Miles has a quasi death experience on the space station on his return to Barrayar. > The only thing that surprises me is how long it has taken us as scientists to look at the basic reproductive anatomy,? Sarah Mesnick, an ecologist at NOAA Fisheries who was not involved with the research, said, speaking of the clitoris. She added, ?It took a team of brilliant women,? referring to two of the authors. Apparently the men never looked for it. All this time men have been studying dolphins and overlooked the obvious. It is discribed as the size of an AA battery and the color of spam. I wonder how large the clitoris of an Orca is. It took me two days to see the humor here and I?m still becoming overcome by laughing fits. [1] St. Paul said D-G undying Jesus shows that Jesus was D-G, so does the Lady undying Cazaril made him a deity in that world? Sorry folks I have time spent to much time watching Sir Kenneth Clark?s ?Civilization?. ? The Truth Shall Make Ye Fret. ? Terry Pratchett, The Truth From howard at brazee.net Wed Jan 12 22:24:47 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:24:47 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Dolphin anatomy very OT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0D78D4-330B-4958-9888-3E3DBB09EF74@brazee.net> > On Jan 12, 2022, at 3:19 PM, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > > > The only thing that surprises me is how long it has taken us as scientists to look at the basic reproductive anatomy,? Sarah Mesnick, an ecologist at NOAA Fisheries who was not involved with the research, said, speaking of the clitoris. She added, ?It took a team of brilliant women,? referring to two of the authors. > > We?ve known a long time that dolphins & whales have used air bubbles as a clitoral stimulation. (Not the same as we use the word ?blowing?). From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 23:38:53 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:38:53 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: <000001d807a9$a0d12c40$e27384c0$@gordonj.net> References: <000001d807a9$a0d12c40$e27384c0$@gordonj.net> Message-ID: I'm still leery about getting Alexa. I can't be certain if it's listening or not. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 5:43 AM Gordon Jackson wrote: > I use Alexa for that: "Alexa, call my phone." > > >My main use for the landline is to call my mobile > >when I can't find it, so that I can follow the ringtone to wherever I left > the darn thing. > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 23:43:10 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:43:10 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A friend had to pay $500 for a replacement key for her 2018 Suburu Outback. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 7:42 AM WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > Go me, the standard is as soon as I get a new one, that?s when I?ll find > the other. By the rule, I'll find it tomorrow. > > William A Wenrich > > * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. > > ________________________________ > From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of > Sylvia McIvers > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022 5:11:41 PM > To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 4:57 AM Gwynne Powell > wrote: > > > > > > > Gwynne: At a certain point it's far less frustrating to just give up and > > buy > > a new one. That also guarantees that you'll find the old one. > > -- > > > > Ooooh yes. > So frustrating. > Sylvia > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc632ce13369b47d96dda08d9d5602954%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637775431255989949%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=nveciwKitegPJe4BehbigLEVnVRVxHN0l1nHfqpUt4s%3D&reserved=0 > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 23:47:25 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:47:25 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Stay safe Howard. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 9:07 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: Howard Brazee > > > On Jan 12, 2022, at 5:04 AM, Gwynne Powell > wrote: > > Or forest fires, for the non-Aussies. > > I hope that everyone in WA (Western Australia) are safe. You > > guys have had a bad summer fire season already. > > Winter fires are bad too. Last week my neighborhood lost 1000 houses. > The next day was our first snow of the season. > > Gwynne: That sounds horrific, Howard - stay safe, and take care. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Wed Jan 12 23:55:51 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:55:51 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was in a health spa in Bad Hamburg many years ago. It had a line of saunas with the temperatures listed by the door. The last was listed as a 100 c. I sat in it for a very short period of time it was very hot. I had to sit on my towel the bench too uncomfortable. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 11:21 AM Joel Polowin wrote: > markus baur wrote: > > and actually - you can survive 100?C air temperature - like in a sauna > > for example > > A sauna is steamy, but not temperature-of-boiling-water steamy. If the > temperature were really that high, the vapour pressure of water would be > 1 atm; there wouldn't be any oxygen. And you'd destroy your lungs if > you managed to take a breath. At most, the steam entering the room is > at 100', but is then diluted and cooled by the air. > > Exposure to steam at 100', even momentarily, is *intensely* painful, > as it condenses on the skin and transfers all of that heat energy. > I'm saying this from recent experience, having accidentally put my hand > in the plume of a steam-based humidifier. Instant scald. > > Joel > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From domelouann at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 00:07:09 2022 From: domelouann at gmail.com (Louann Miller) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 18:07:09 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry Message-ID: The beloved husband has been admitted to our local hospital (a good one, I'm happy to say) with covid pneumonia. He wasn't able to get enough air. (All praise to his brother who went out and got us a blood-oxygen level gadget. Having that available, and therefore a hard number in front of us, helped us know it was time to hit the ER.) They have him on some oxygen, which is making him feel considerably better, and are also giving him steroids and antivirals. The kids and I are obviously not happy, but confident he's in the right place getting the right care. I will go see him again tomorrow. Unfortunately, only one visiting hour per day for Covid patients. They told him to plan on staying there 3-4 days. His immediate reaction was that he's going to need more books, which is one of the reasons I feel confident they're taking good care of him. Louann From sylviamcivers at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 00:08:53 2022 From: sylviamcivers at gmail.com (Sylvia McIvers) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 19:08:53 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Dolphin anatomy very OT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > > The only thing that surprises me is how long it has taken us as scientists > to look at the basic reproductive anatomy,? Sarah Mesnick, an ecologist at > NOAA Fisheries who was not involved with the research, said, speaking of > the clitoris. She added, ?It took a team of brilliant women,? referring to > two of the authors. > > > > Apparently the men never looked for it. All this time men have been > studying dolphins and overlooked > the obvious. It is discribed as the size of an AA battery and the color of > spam. > I wonder how large the clitoris of an Orca is. > Do you know how long it took for doctors & scientists to find clitoris in women? Apparently it wasn't ever measured / dissected until very, very recently - counting in years, not decades. Sylvia From ravenclaweric at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 01:42:49 2022 From: ravenclaweric at gmail.com (Eric Oppen) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 19:42:49 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. Message-ID: I got back from California today. As usual, I rode Amtrak from Riverside to Ft. Madison, IA. On the train, I thought I had got some sleep, but I can't honestly be sure---I sometimes go into something like a hypnotic trance in trains or on airplanes, mostly due to sitting in one place for FAR too long. I felt fine when I alit at Ft. Madison, so I got in my car and headed for home. Apparently I wasn't so fine. Suddenly, I found myself in a car out of control, spinning first into the median and then back onto the roadway, where I hit another car. AFAIK, I'm just fine---I was strapped in very securely. The other driver said he had some back pain, which might mean nowt or summat. Both cars took damage, but it looked to me like nothing a body shop couldn't fix. I do have insurance for this sort of thing. As I said, a day I'd sooner had not happened. From kawyle at att.net Thu Jan 13 01:46:51 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 01:46:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <865466434.3626900.1642038411659@mail.yahoo.com> I'm so sorry you had this happen. Do you know why you lost control? If you go to a doctor to make sure the accident didn't injure you, this could be something else worth discussing. Karen A. Wyle On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 08:43:13 PM EST, Eric Oppen wrote: [snip] I felt fine when I alit at Ft. Madison, so I got in my car and headed for home.? Apparently I wasn't so fine.? Suddenly, I found myself in a car out of control, spinning first into the median and then back onto the roadway, where I hit another car. AFAIK, I'm just fine---I was strapped in very securely.? The other driver said he had some back pain, which might mean nowt or summat.? Both cars took damage, but it looked to me like nothing a body shop couldn't fix.? I do have insurance for this sort of thing. As I said, a day I'd sooner had not happened. -- From saffronrose at me.com Thu Jan 13 01:51:09 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:51:09 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 12, 2022, at 4:07 PM, Louann Miller wrote: > > ?The beloved husband has been admitted to our local hospital (a good one, > I'm happy to say) with covid pneumonia. He wasn't able to get enough air. > (All praise to his brother who went out and got us a blood-oxygen level > gadget. Having that available, and therefore a hard number in front of us, > helped us know it was time to hit the ER.) > They have him on some oxygen, which is making him feel considerably better, > and are also giving him steroids and antivirals. The kids and I are > obviously not happy, but confident he's in the right place getting the > right care. I will go see him again tomorrow. Unfortunately, only one > visiting hour per day for Covid patients. They told him to plan on staying > there 3-4 days. > His immediate reaction was that he's going to need more books, which is one > of the reasons I feel confident they're taking good care of him. My best wishes in your direction for a quick turnaround?and adequate reading material! Marina From saffronrose at me.com Thu Jan 13 01:55:11 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 17:55:11 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4844BF36-6C71-4217-A016-840EE10589A9@me.com> On Jan 12, 2022, at 5:43 PM, Eric Oppen wrote: > > ?I got back from California today. (Snip) > I felt fine when I alit at Ft. Madison, so I got in my car and headed for > home. Apparently I wasn't so fine. (snip) > AFAIK, I'm just fine---I was strapped in very securely. The other driver > said he had some back pain, which might mean nowt or summat. Both cars > took damage, but it looked to me like nothing a body shop couldn't fix. I > do have insurance for this sort of thing. Best wishes for everything in the clear for all concerned! Marina From kknight at fastmail.fm Thu Jan 13 02:18:35 2022 From: kknight at fastmail.fm (Katrina Knight) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:18:35 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <202201130218.20D2Iq9i027397@lists.herald.co.uk> At 08:42 PM 1/12/2022 Eric Oppen wrote: >I felt fine when I alit at Ft. Madison, so I got in my car and >headed for >home. Apparently I wasn't so fine. Suddenly, I found myself >in a car out >of control, spinning first into the median and then back onto >the roadway, >where I hit another car. That's awful. I'm glad you're okay. Hopefully the other driver is too. -- Katrina Knight kknight at fastmail.fm Please be aware that I am in the middle of preparing to move and not at my computer much so I may not respond quickly. From kknight at fastmail.fm Thu Jan 13 02:19:58 2022 From: kknight at fastmail.fm (Katrina Knight) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:19:58 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <202201130220.20D2KCm8028012@lists.herald.co.uk> At 07:07 PM 1/12/2022 Louann Miller wrote: >The beloved husband has been admitted to our local hospital (a >good one, >I'm happy to say) with covid pneumonia. I wish him a speedy recovery. -- Katrina Knight kknight at fastmail.fm Please be aware that I am in the middle of preparing to move and not at my computer much so I may not respond quickly. From wetair at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 02:28:57 2022 From: wetair at gmail.com (Ruchira Mathur) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:28:57 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: <202201130218.20D2Iq9i027397@lists.herald.co.uk> References: <202201130218.20D2Iq9i027397@lists.herald.co.uk> Message-ID: That's terrible. I hope you and the other person is ok. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 9:18 PM Katrina Knight wrote: > At 08:42 PM 1/12/2022 Eric Oppen wrote: > >I felt fine when I alit at Ft. Madison, so I got in my car and > >headed for > >home. Apparently I wasn't so fine. Suddenly, I found myself > >in a car out > >of control, spinning first into the median and then back onto > >the roadway, > >where I hit another car. > > That's awful. I'm glad you're okay. Hopefully the other driver > is too. > > -- > Katrina Knight > kknight at fastmail.fm > > Please be aware that I am in the middle of preparing to move and > not at my computer much so I may not respond quickly. > > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wetair at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From litalex at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 02:50:14 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:50:14 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34F6C042-6EA4-4B8F-ADC0-9F22B673DA9C@gmail.com> Hello, > On Jan 12, 2022, at 20:42, Eric Oppen wrote: > home. Apparently I wasn't so fine. Suddenly, I found myself in a car out > of control, spinning first into the median and then back onto the roadway, > where I hit another car. > > AFAIK, I'm just fine---I was strapped in very securely. The other driver > said he had some back pain, which might mean nowt or summat. Both cars > took damage, but it looked to me like nothing a body shop couldn't fix. I > do have insurance for this sort of thing. Eeeek! Glad you?re fine. Though you should still go to a doctor to make sure, imho. Hope the other driver is okay, too? little Alex From litalex at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 02:51:08 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:51:08 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B714840-D79B-43A8-B89D-00BD328D1FD1@gmail.com> Hello, > On Jan 12, 2022, at 19:07, Louann Miller wrote: > > The beloved husband has been admitted to our local hospital (a good one, > I'm happy to say) with covid pneumonia. He wasn't able to get enough air. Hope he has a speedy recover! little Alex From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 03:54:31 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:54:31 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: <34F6C042-6EA4-4B8F-ADC0-9F22B673DA9C@gmail.com> References: <34F6C042-6EA4-4B8F-ADC0-9F22B673DA9C@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm glad you're ok. Could you have hit a chunk of black ice? We still have ice here in Omaha despite 2 days of 50f plus weather. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 8:50 PM Alex Kwan wrote: > Hello, > > > On Jan 12, 2022, at 20:42, Eric Oppen wrote: > > home. Apparently I wasn't so fine. Suddenly, I found myself in a car > out > > of control, spinning first into the median and then back onto the > roadway, > > where I hit another car. > > > > AFAIK, I'm just fine---I was strapped in very securely. The other driver > > said he had some back pain, which might mean nowt or summat. Both cars > > took damage, but it looked to me like nothing a body shop couldn't fix. > I > > do have insurance for this sort of thing. > > Eeeek! Glad you?re fine. Though you should still go to a doctor to make > sure, imho. Hope the other driver is okay, too? > > little Alex > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 03:56:48 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 21:56:48 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: <0B714840-D79B-43A8-B89D-00BD328D1FD1@gmail.com> References: <0B714840-D79B-43A8-B89D-00BD328D1FD1@gmail.com> Message-ID: 8 wish him all the best, and a speedy recovery. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 8:51 PM Alex Kwan wrote: > Hello, > > > On Jan 12, 2022, at 19:07, Louann Miller wrote: > > > > The beloved husband has been admitted to our local hospital (a good one, > > I'm happy to say) with covid pneumonia. He wasn't able to get enough air. > > Hope he has a speedy recover! > > little Alex > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 05:43:25 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:43:25 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Margaret Dean I remember my Shakespeare prof in college pointing out indications in the plays that there may have been "the short dark one" (Hermia, Celia) and "the tall blonde one" (Helena, Rosalind). --Margaret Dean Gwynne: Yes, Shax wasn't writing the play and then casting to suit it, he was writing characters to fit the cast that he had available. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 05:54:23 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:54:23 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This came at a tangent from a few posts here, but it's one of those things that suddenly bubbles to the top of your mind, and you wonder... I wonder if we're counting Miles's deaths correctly. The general comment is that he's died once, and next time he'd do it more permanently. But do we have the count correct? I don't think his first birth counts, because they don't mention any revival at that point (although Cordelia dies - temporarily. So once again Miles is following in her footsteps with his later return from death). He dies on JW, cryorevived, all of that. But after that comes another death. Naismith. The little Admiral is finished when Miles is fired from ImpSec. No wonder he reacts so strongly - it's not just embarrassment and regret, it's grief. That's the second death. So his next effort will be three times and, presumably, the one he gets right (and permanent.) And I'm not thinking about that. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 05:57:19 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:57:19 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Louann Miller The beloved husband has been admitted to our local hospital (a good one, I'm happy to say) with covid pneumonia..... Gwynne: I'm sorry, it's a worrying time for you all. I hope he has enough books! From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 05:59:00 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:59:00 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Eric Oppen ....... I felt fine when I alit at Ft. Madison, so I got in my car and headed for home. Apparently I wasn't so fine. Suddenly, I found myself in a car out of control, spinning first into the median and then back onto the roadway, where I hit another car.... Gwynne: Definitely not a great way to finish the day - I'm so glad that everyone is ok. Take care, and follow up any twinges or odd feelings for the next few days. From jpolowin at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 06:50:49 2022 From: jpolowin at hotmail.com (Joel Polowin) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 06:50:49 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Raymond Collins wrote: > I was in a health spa in Bad Hamburg many years ago. It had a line of > saunas with the temperatures listed by the door. The last was listed as a > 100 c. I sat in it for a very short period of time it was very hot. I had > to sit on my towel the bench too uncomfortable. Huh. I didn't know about that. A dry sauna -- and you'd want it to be *really* dry -- wouldn't necessarily injure one immediately at 100'C. It still sounds dangerous. Joel From ravenclaweric at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 07:12:57 2022 From: ravenclaweric at gmail.com (Eric Oppen) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 01:12:57 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: <34F6C042-6EA4-4B8F-ADC0-9F22B673DA9C@gmail.com> Message-ID: I may even have fainted. I hadn't eaten anything since the evening before the day I got on the train. This was so that I wouldn't need to use the "facilities" on the train. Between most of them being very difficult for me to squeeze into thanks to my weight, and jouncing, not to mention troubles I'd had with a painful hemorrhoid since I'd been out in CA, moving my bowels was something I did not want to do. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 9:54 PM Raymond Collins wrote: > I'm glad you're ok. Could you have hit a chunk of black ice? We still have > ice here in Omaha despite 2 days of 50f plus weather. > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 8:50 PM Alex Kwan wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > On Jan 12, 2022, at 20:42, Eric Oppen wrote: > > > home. Apparently I wasn't so fine. Suddenly, I found myself in a car > > out > > > of control, spinning first into the median and then back onto the > > roadway, > > > where I hit another car. > > > > > > AFAIK, I'm just fine---I was strapped in very securely. The other > driver > > > said he had some back pain, which might mean nowt or summat. Both cars > > > took damage, but it looked to me like nothing a body shop couldn't fix. > > I > > > do have insurance for this sort of thing. > > > > Eeeek! Glad you?re fine. Though you should still go to a doctor to make > > sure, imho. Hope the other driver is okay, too? > > > > little Alex > > -- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 08:41:44 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 02:41:44 -0600 Subject: [LMB] "The Door into Summer" I just finished watching it and bawling like a baby. Excellent movie. I deeply recommend watching it. Message-ID: From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 08:55:46 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 02:55:46 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: References: <25932296-0967-4CA5-A68D-F3BAAC050E7A@brazee.net> <73ECAE4B-BD8A-4132-868B-50F29ACC53AD@me.com> Message-ID: Your in Boulder County? On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 2:25 PM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 12, 2022, at 12:28 PM, A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > >> Winter fires are bad too. Last week my neighborhood lost 1000 > houses. The next day was our first snow of the season. > > > > Gah! What US State? I know what state they?re in: disastrous. > > Colorado > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 09:03:37 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 03:03:37 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Frankly I want to see more Miles' stories and novels. If none are forthcoming so be it. Miles will be alive until Lois Mcmaster Bujold says otherwise. If fanfic has a story of Miles demise I hope it happens with a big gigantic big bang and not with a quiet whimper. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 11:54 PM Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > This came at a tangent from a few posts here, but it's one of those > things that suddenly bubbles to the top of your mind, and you wonder... > > I wonder if we're counting Miles's deaths correctly. > > The general comment is that he's died once, and next time he'd do it > more permanently. But do we have the count correct? > > I don't think his first birth counts, because they don't mention any > revival at that point (although Cordelia dies - temporarily. So once again > Miles is following in her footsteps with his later return from death). > > He dies on JW, cryorevived, all of that. But after that comes another > death. Naismith. The little Admiral is finished when Miles is fired from > ImpSec. No wonder he reacts so strongly - it's not just embarrassment > and regret, it's grief. That's the second death. > > So his next effort will be three times and, presumably, the one he gets > right (and permanent.) And I'm not thinking about that. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From proto at panix.com Thu Jan 13 09:29:03 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:29:03 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <082AA302-4610-4DD6-A20D-7AC579409864@panix.com> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 12:54 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > > > This came at a tangent from a few posts here, but it's one of those > things that suddenly bubbles to the top of your mind, and you wonder... > > I wonder if we're counting Miles's deaths correctly. > > The general comment is that he's died once, and next time he'd do it > more permanently. But do we have the count correct? > > I don't think his first birth counts, because they don't mention any > revival at that point (although Cordelia dies - temporarily. So once again > Miles is following in her footsteps with his later return from death). > > He dies on JW, cryorevived, all of that. But after that comes another > death. Naismith. The little Admiral is finished when Miles is fired from > ImpSec. No wonder he reacts so strongly - it's not just embarrassment > and regret, it's grief. That's the second death. > > So his next effort will be three times and, presumably, the one he gets > right (and permanent.) And I?m not thinking about that. Ah, yes. Drabble #1 in which Mark realizes that Lord Vorkosigan died at that moment and he had the suprised look of a man Mark had shot with a nerve disrupter. That has to count especially if you are counting Naismith?s death. So he?s already died three times for Barrayar. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to proto at panix.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > ? As the historical Buddha said, ?Hatred does not stop by hatred at any time; hatred stops only by love. this is an ancient rule.? about 2770 BP (BP means either Before Present or Before Physics that is before nuclear testing made it necessary to adjust carbon 14 dating. From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Thu Jan 13 09:36:27 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:36:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1225006937.218836.1642066587254@mail.yahoo.com> If you can teach her (and your other grandchildren) the joys of a place for everything, and everything in its place, you'll be teaching a valuable life skill that can save her loads of money in the future.? Does she have a special corner of the house where she can do her homework? A small table or sturdy TV tray, or even a real desk if you can get one second-hand and have the space? It'll be more comfortable and ergonomic.? Then, 20 minutes before it's time to go home, have a ten-minute tidy. All things (kitchen items, snacks, computing items, art items, etc.) go back where they belong. If it takes more than 10 minutes to tidy, you might need to have a two-minute tidy every hour upon the hour. This goes for Grandma and Grandpa, too -- they put their things away at the same time. Then sit down and have a treat -- maybe have them show you the latest Tik-toks or favorite music videos. Take turns and show them some YouTube of songs that were popular when you were their age.? If something does get lost, ask them to help you look for it. I'm sure this doesn't happen to you, but I often misplace things (despite my best efforts) and I never blame it on the kids. "I can't find my X. Have you seen it anywhere around? Can you help me look for it?"? A lost mouse is its own consequence, too. Not only are you out a mouse, so are the kids. That sucks for everyone.? I'm not done reading the thread -- can't wait to find out if it was found!? Micki From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Thu Jan 13 09:49:03 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:49:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1387536057.227145.1642067343828@mail.yahoo.com> On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 06:55:51 PM GMT+9, Gwynne Powell wrote: From: Raymond Collins I recently reactivated my landline and so far 99% of the calls are either telemarketing or robocalls which I ignore. I also don't answer questions so if ask if I'm me, I'll say, "I'm sorry I'm not interested." Then hang up. Gwynne: The only reason I have a landline is that it comes free with my internet package. I never answer it; most of the time - if it's anyone who really wants me they'd leave a message. All the scammers hang up as soon as the message kicks in. Everyone who matters has my mobile number, anyway. (cellphone)? My main use for the landline is to call my mobile when I can't find it, so that I can follow the ringtone to wherever I left the darn thing. -- Micki: Had to laugh out loud! Some things are true the world over. That's the main purpose for OUR landline, too. I hate answering the damn thing unless it says who is calling on the caller ID. Even then, I would much rather someone else answer it.? I don't have much use for the phone function of my phone, either. We get free calls (even VIDEO CALLS, the future is HERE!) from an app, so the phone is mostly for when I don't have wi-fi.? Micki From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Thu Jan 13 09:53:16 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:53:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> Message-ID: <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 09:01:09 PM GMT+9, Gordon Jackson wrote: My cat loves to play with AAA batteries, which I don't let him have. He has however discovered that if he relocates my wireless mouse from the desk to the floor with sufficient energy the battery cover door will come off and at least one of the batteries will fly out. Mission accomplished. He then has an AAA battery to carry away and play with. Micki: Why are cats so weird? I have one cat who adores a cotton swab, and while the other cats are quite interested, they don't attain the feats of athletic interpretive dance that Charli does. I also have one cat (possibly more than one cat) who loves playing with screws and nails. Our new house (where most of the cats are) isn't quite finished, so my husband has boxes of nails upstairs. The first time I found a nail in my futon, I was very befuddled. Where the heck did it come from? Was it an omen???? Turns out more than one small striped cat enjoys carrying them all over the house. I just pick them up and put them in a specified jar.? As for the mouse/battery problem, have you tried taping the mouse? May have to hide it in a drawer when it's not in use.? Micki From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 09:57:45 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:57:45 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Eric Oppen I may even have fainted. I hadn't eaten anything since the evening before the day I got on the train. This was so that I wouldn't need to use the "facilities" on the train. Between most of them being very difficult for me to squeeze into thanks to my weight, and jouncing, not to mention troubles I'd had with a painful hemorrhoid since I'd been out in CA, moving my bowels was something I did not want to do. Gwynne: My first instinct is to scold you for taking such a risk, but you're old enough and smart enough to learn from this and have a better plan next time. Take things easy, and enjoy all the paperwork you have in store. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 10:00:54 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:00:54 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Raymond Collins Frankly I want to see more Miles' stories and novels. If none are forthcoming so be it. Miles will be alive until Lois Mcmaster Bujold says otherwise. If fanfic has a story of Miles demise I hope it happens with a big gigantic big bang and not with a quiet whimper. Gwynne: (Posting this one with an evil grin)... https://archiveofourown.org/works/17849432 Condolences - Gwynne - Vorkosigan Saga - Lois McMaster Bujold [Archive of Our Own] An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works archiveofourown.org From proto at panix.com Thu Jan 13 10:15:27 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:15:27 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:53 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > As for the mouse/battery problem, have you tried taping the mouse? May have to hide it in a drawer when it's not in use. > > Micki Use a wired mouse, solves the battery problem and you can always find it. I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. ? It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.? ?W. K. Clifford (1845?1879), ?The Ethics? My take is belief should be proportional to the evidence. From proto at panix.com Thu Jan 13 10:17:39 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:17:39 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8749474E-CA49-44A9-9498-59EC706A100A@panix.com> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:57 AM, Gwynne Powell wrote: > > From: Eric Oppen > > > > I may even have fainted. I hadn't eaten anything since the evening before > the day I got on the train. This was so that I wouldn't need to use the > "facilities" on the train. Between most of them being very difficult for > me to squeeze into thanks to my weight, and jouncing, not to mention > troubles I'd had with a painful hemorrhoid since I'd been out in CA, moving > my bowels was something I did not want to do. > > Gwynne: My first instinct is to scold you for taking such a risk, but you're old > enough and smart enough to learn from this and have a better plan next time. > Take things easy, and enjoy all the paperwork you have in store. If he?d been a fat burner rather than a carb burning it would have been no problem. From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 10:41:45 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:41:45 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh boy! On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:01 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: Raymond Collins > > > Frankly I want to see more Miles' stories and novels. If none are > forthcoming so be it. Miles will be alive until Lois Mcmaster Bujold says > otherwise. > If fanfic has a story of Miles demise I hope it happens with a big gigantic > big bang and not with a quiet whimper. > > Gwynne: (Posting this one with an evil grin)... > > https://archiveofourown.org/works/17849432 > > > Condolences - Gwynne - Vorkosigan Saga - Lois McMaster Bujold [Archive of > Our Own] > An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative > Works > archiveofourown.org > > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 10:50:37 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:50:37 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> Message-ID: Fortunately Katy goes after my lip balm. Unlike triple A batteries. Unfortunately I need my lip balm because it's dry this time of season. So it's a tug-of-war between my cat and when I catch her doing it. Unfortunately Katy has become a ninja, lip balm, stealing cat! My response? Buy more lip balm.I win! On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:15 AM WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > > > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:53 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > > As for the mouse/battery problem, have you tried taping the mouse? May > have to hide it in a drawer when it's not in use. > > > > Micki > > Use a wired mouse, solves the battery problem and you can always find it. > > I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. > > ? > It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for everyone, to believe anything > upon insufficient evidence.? ?W. K. Clifford (1845?1879), ?The Ethics? My > take is belief should be proportional to the evidence. > > > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From lmb at matija.com Thu Jan 13 11:00:43 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:00:43 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> Message-ID: <2a92c0d3-8ea7-ef15-a062-bfd5931ac978@matija.com> On 13/01/2022 10:15, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > Use a wired mouse, solves the battery problem and you can always find it. > > I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. I can't stand wired mice anymore, the wire always gets in the way. I use wireless mice exclusively, but with rechargeable batteries, nothing pops out if the mouse falls on the floor. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 11:30:22 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:30:22 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: WalterStuartBushell Use a wired mouse, solves the battery problem and you can always find it. I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. Gwynne: I'm with you on that one! I tried a wireless mouse, spent all my time searching under furniture for it - when you drop them, they travel. And I have all the hand-eye coordination of a drunk mongoose, so I drop things a LOT. With a wired mouse at least you can retrieve it. Frequently. Life's too short to keep searching for lost mouses. From kawyle at att.net Thu Jan 13 14:12:31 2022 From: kawyle at att.net (Karen A. Wyle) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 14:12:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <185098435.3756819.1642083151252@mail.yahoo.com> I guess a mongoose sort?of has hands . . . . Karen A. Wyle On Thursday, January 13, 2022, 06:30:38 AM EST, Gwynne Powell wrote: Gwynne: I'm with you on that one! I tried a wireless mouse, spent all my time searching under furniture for it - when you drop them, they travel. And I have all the hand-eye coordination of a drunk mongoose, so I drop things a LOT. From howard at brazee.net Thu Jan 13 14:17:05 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 07:17:05 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: References: <25932296-0967-4CA5-A68D-F3BAAC050E7A@brazee.net> <73ECAE4B-BD8A-4132-868B-50F29ACC53AD@me.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 13, 2022, at 1:55 AM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > Your in Boulder County? Yes. Hole #1 of the golf course that I just paid for next year?s membership used to have houses along its side. Those are some of the 1000 houses lost in the fire. From howard at brazee.net Thu Jan 13 14:32:12 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 07:32:12 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Using smart phones In-Reply-To: <1387536057.227145.1642067343828@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1387536057.227145.1642067343828@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C80ECF3-4F14-47CC-9528-EA69580ED47E@brazee.net> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 2:49 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > Micki: Had to laugh out loud! Some things are true the world over. That's the main purpose for OUR landline, too. I hate answering the damn thing unless it says who is calling on the caller ID. Even then, I would much rather someone else answer it. > > I don't have much use for the phone function of my phone, either. We get free calls (even VIDEO CALLS, the future is HERE!) from an app, so the phone is mostly for when I don't have wi-fi. My phone doesn?t ring when it doesn?t recognize the phone number. Every once in a while, I have to turn that feature off while I wait for a call from a company that uses lots of phone numbers (like Apple). I don?t use video calls. I often use my phone?s music app to listen to the radio while taking a walk, so maybe I use 5G, but I suspect it would sound just the same with 4G or 3G. I do that when I?m caught up with podcasts (I don?t need my phone to listen to podcasts, as they seem to be downloaded to my watch). Some people watch movies on their phones, I guess they are the ones who want that speed. (I don?t watch much TV) I track my steps and use a heart app. I also copy all of my ebooks to my phone in case I?m out somewhere without my iPad. My desktop computer is where I do most all of my computing. My son?s SO was doing inventory for MileHiCon?s auction with a computer in front of her, but typing them in on her phone instead. I learned to type a half-century ago and very much prefer a full-sized keyboard and screen. It?s hard for me to imagine that in the future they will switch to voice, but who knows what their interfaces will be? From howard at brazee.net Thu Jan 13 14:35:19 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 07:35:19 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> Message-ID: <37038462-89EC-4596-B4FB-0DA8757A9AD8@brazee.net> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 3:15 AM, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > Use a wired mouse, solves the battery problem and you can always find it. > > I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. The only advantage for me is not using up a port. That and the wireless mouse came with my computer. I bought a wired mouse for emergencies, but it uses the old USB standard, and my computer has the newer USB standard. From howard at brazee.net Thu Jan 13 14:37:40 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 07:37:40 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <2a92c0d3-8ea7-ef15-a062-bfd5931ac978@matija.com> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> <2a92c0d3-8ea7-ef15-a062-bfd5931ac978@matija.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:00 AM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > I can't stand wired mice anymore, the wire always gets in the way. > > I use wireless mice exclusively, but with rechargeable batteries, nothing pops out if the mouse falls on the floor. At one time I had a mouse that sat on a recharger, but it stopped working. Now I have a mouse that is designed so that it can?t be used while it is recharging. (My keyboard can be used while it is recharging). From lmb at matija.com Thu Jan 13 15:13:55 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 15:13:55 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> <2a92c0d3-8ea7-ef15-a062-bfd5931ac978@matija.com> Message-ID: <37ab5871-7357-7426-4be6-6cc99bf5893d@matija.com> On 13/01/2022 14:37, Howard Brazee wrote: > At one time I had a mouse that sat on a recharger, but it stopped working. Now I have a mouse that is designed so that it can?t be used while it is recharging. (My keyboard can be used while it is recharging). Both my desktop mouse and my laptop mouse are logitech MX/3, MX anywhere 3. They charge over USB, when they charge they can be used but they have a tail. The beauty is that I need to charge them only once every few months, so when they start signaling low battery, I just make a metal note to plug it in when I'm finished for the day, and it the morning it will be OK for another month or two. From john.c.lennard at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 15:35:35 2022 From: john.c.lennard at gmail.com (John Lennard) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 15:35:35 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: Message-ID: John: > Same-age, same-sex casting is a > phenomenon generated by cinema and TV, which use close-ups, and spread to > theatre because actors' and directors' eyes and minds are now trained by > Margaret: Though I think that live theater is still more inherently flexible in this way than filmed drama is, because it's already asking more collaboration from the audience, more of an effort of imagination in creating the play's reality -- the sort of thing Shakespeare makes explicit in the prologue to Henry V, for instance: essentially, "You folks are going to have to help us out here if we're going to recreate the battle of Agincourt in this 'wooden O'." So if the audience can pick up on a line like, "Well, this is the Forest of Arden" and help imagine the actors into a forest, they're not going to boggle at trifles like an actor's age or sex (or, nowadays, complexion) not being identical with their character's. John: Yup -- as Stephen Greenblatt once said, theatre does not want to elicit our belief, but our complicity ; and in most theatre traditions there is room for flexibility, as folk have lately been showing by feminising various Shax roles -- Queen Cymbeline, and the like. But the youngest professional actor I know of who played Lear was Scofield, who was 40 when he did the stage show on which the film was later based ; and the youngest I've ever seen live was Tom Wilkinson at 47. Olivier did it at 74, McKellen at 67, Jacobi at 72 (IIRC). Outside school or student productions, Lear just ain't available until you're old/er. But with the female roles there is an issue, because they are now rarely played professionally by female actors who are less than mid-20s and physically mature as women -- which does mean audiences are not usually reading them as teenage, never mind early teenage. Desdemona is a case in point, for she is really very naive and inexperienced -- never mind interracial, what about 14 marries 40+? -- and having her plainly be a 20-something erases that. Not coincidentally, the most affecting Juliet I've ever seen, Karolina Ebner, was actually (IIRC) just 18 when she played the part, and looked 16-. Terrifying. And I dearly wish to see a Desdemona who looks 14. And a Cressida. The plays would transform from anything we're now used to. As you mention colour-blind casting (meaning the actor's skin tone is irrelevant), let me also mention one problem with it, which is that if one says Othello -must- be played by an actor of colour (which is now pretty much the case), one is also implicitly saying that no actor of colour can play anyone else in *Othello*, including the much more interesting role of Iago. It can be done, of course, as by the RSC a few years back with both Othello and Iago played by actors of colour, but that was seen as gimmicky, and the seemingly anti-racist rule has costs that those advocating it rarely seem to register. > > John: > The other heroines seem, like Juliet, clearly teenage -- Sylvia and > Julia, Lavinia, Helena and Hermia, Portia and Nerissa, Rosalind and Celia, > Cressida, Ophelia, Desdemona: no reason to think any of them much above 16, > if that -- so one might say that while being played by pre-pubescent boys > did not make them at all masculine, it did tend to keep them young. > Margaret: I remember my Shakespeare prof in college pointing out indications in the plays that there may have been "the short dark one" (Hermia, Celia) and "the tall blonde one" (Helena, Rosalind). John: And yup again. The contrast may have varied over time as boy actors got older and either became adult players or left the stage, but as with the fat/thin odd couple pairings, having a clear contrast of the paired heroines (derived from commedia dell'arte, where it's usually the prima donna inamorata and her friend or maid) in colouring or height or both does several jobs -- helps the audience to know who's who, sets up banter and insults, and stages difference that can be used for humour and all sorts. -- John Lennard, MA DPhil. (Oxon.), MA (WU) Associate Member, Hughes Hall, Cambridge Independent Scholar www.humanities-ebooks.co.uk *Mock-Death in Shakespeare's Plays* The first full study of Shakespeare's favourite dramatic device *The Exasperating Case of David Weber, or The Slow Death of The Honorverse* 22 years ago Weber created it and in the last ten he has broken it ... *Tolkien's Triumph: The Strange History of *The Lord of the Rings Just how did a 1000-page book with 6 appendices come to sell 8,500 copies per day? *Talking Sense About *Fifty Shades of Grey*, or Fanfiction, Feminism, and BDSM* The story the media *isn't* telling ... Available from Kindle Stores, and in PDF from the author. From wawenri at msn.com Thu Jan 13 15:39:55 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 15:39:55 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Praying William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Gwynne Powell Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:57:19 PM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry From: Louann Miller The beloved husband has been admitted to our local hospital (a good one, I'm happy to say) with covid pneumonia..... Gwynne: I'm sorry, it's a worrying time for you all. I hope he has enough books! -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cc325ec4d69b94950eaea08d9d6599674%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637776502529905555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=82Ix8Fxs%2FUTK6jkAVeZvq2d7OWoL6ATrXuXH1atqOuw%3D&reserved=0 From howard at brazee.net Thu Jan 13 15:42:24 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:42:24 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40C3A62B-C41E-4063-AB69-2276163337B4@brazee.net> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 8:35 AM, John Lennard wrote: > > As you mention colour-blind casting (meaning the actor's skin tone is > irrelevant), let me also mention one problem with it, which is that if one > says Othello -must- be played by an actor of colour (which is now pretty > much the case), one is also implicitly saying that no actor of colour can > play anyone else in *Othello*, including the much more interesting role of > Iago. It can be done, of course, as by the RSC a few years back with both > Othello and Iago played by actors of colour, but that was seen as gimmicky, > and the seemingly anti-racist rule has costs that those advocating it > rarely seem to register. I liked a movie production of Withering Heights with a black Heathcliff. It worked with our modern times. From proto at panix.com Thu Jan 13 16:05:40 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:05:40 -0500 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <37038462-89EC-4596-B4FB-0DA8757A9AD8@brazee.net> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> <37038462-89EC-4596-B4FB-0DA8757A9AD8@brazee.net> Message-ID: <07623646-42C3-4F7E-956D-E18C55AECE73@panix.com> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 9:35 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: > > The only advantage for me is not using up a port. That and the wireless mouse came with my computer. I bought a wired mouse for emergencies, but it uses the old USB standard, and my computer has the newer USB standard. > -- The nice thing about USB standards is there are so many of them. /s ? ?Of all the means to insure happiness throughout the whole life, by far the most important is the acquisition of friends.? ~Epicurus From proto at panix.com Thu Jan 13 16:24:28 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:24:28 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A15AFBA-245F-47A9-9F2E-7481A0C77E14@panix.com> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 10:35 AM, John Lennard wrote: > > > As you mention colour-blind casting (meaning the actor's skin tone is > irrelevant), let me also mention one problem with it, which is that if one > says Othello -must- be played by an actor of colour (which is now pretty > much the case), one is also implicitly saying that no actor of colour can > play anyone else in *Othello*, including the much more interesting role of > Iago. ,< Have Othello be White and the rest of the cast Black. ? Of course our planet has its mood swings ? it is, after all, bipolar. From fishman at panix.com Thu Jan 13 16:47:00 2022 From: fishman at panix.com (Harvey Fishman) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 16:47:00 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> Message-ID: ------ Original Message ------ From: "WalterStuartBushell" To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." Bcc: fishman at panix.com Sent: 1/13/2022 5:15:27 AM Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Borrowing > >I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. > >? >It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.? ?W. K. Clifford (1845?1879), ?The Ethics? My take is belief should be proportional to the evidence. Have you ever used one? I found it to be truly liberating when Microsoft first started selling them oh so many years ago. I use an $8.00 Vic Tsieng mouse which lasts six months or so and then throw it away. Harvey From wawenri at msn.com Thu Jan 13 17:16:44 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:16:44 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- Raymond Collins Frankly I want to see more Miles' stories and novels. If none are forthcoming so be it. Miles will be alive until Lois Mcmaster Bujold says otherwise. If fanfic has a story of Miles demise I hope it happens with a big gigantic big bang and not with a quiet whimper. ==================================================== I'd like anything from Lois. More Penric, more WGW, or more Vorkoverse. If Miles is getting boring (Miles boring?), how about the next generation Nikki, Alexander, Helen, Taurie, or any of the others alone or in combination could certainly stir up enough trouble for a whole series. Alexander wanting to be an architect count and wanting Helen to be a true count without a sex change is one place. As usual, any ideas I have are public property. You can't copywrite ideas. William A Wenrich A sinner utterly dependent on the grace of God. From baur at chello.at Thu Jan 13 17:20:49 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:20:49 +0100 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yes .. saunas are pretty dry consider this that you start with air at ambient temp and relative humidity (lets say 20?C and 50%) - if you heat that up to 100?C you end up with 0.8% relative humidity which is why sweating in a sauna works pretty well to keep your body temperature under control .. and thus makes 100?C bearable for limited times use this to check my arithmetic https://www.thecalculator.co/others/Relative-Humidity-Calculator-682.html servus markus Am 13.01.2022 um 07:50 schrieb Joel Polowin: > Raymond Collins wrote: >> I was in a health spa in Bad Hamburg many years ago. It had a line of >> saunas with the temperatures listed by the door. The last was listed as a >> 100 c. I sat in it for a very short period of time it was very hot. I had >> to sit on my towel the bench too uncomfortable. > > Huh. I didn't know about that. A dry sauna -- and you'd want it to be > *really* dry -- wouldn't necessarily injure one immediately at 100'C. > It still sounds dangerous. > > Joel From wawenri at msn.com Thu Jan 13 17:22:36 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:22:36 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <1225006937.218836.1642066587254@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1225006937.218836.1642066587254@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- M. Haller Yamada If you can teach her (and your other grandchildren) the joys of a place for everything, and everything in its place, you'll be teaching a valuable life skill that can save her loads of money in the future.? Does she have a special corner of the house where she can do her homework? A small table or sturdy TV tray, or even a real desk if you can get one second-hand and have the space? It'll be more comfortable and ergonomic.? Then, 20 minutes before it's time to go home, have a ten-minute tidy. All things (kitchen items, snacks, computing items, art items, etc.) go back where they belong. If it takes more than 10 minutes to tidy, you might need to have a two-minute tidy every hour upon the hour. This goes for Grandma and Grandpa, too -- they put their things away at the same time. Then sit down and have a treat -- maybe have them show you the latest Tik-toks or favorite music videos. Take turns and show them some YouTube of songs that were popular when you were their age.? If something does get lost, ask them to help you look for it. I'm sure this doesn't happen to you, but I often misplace things (despite my best efforts) and I never blame it on the kids. "I can't find my X. Have you seen it anywhere around? Can you help me look for it?"? A lost mouse is its own consequence, too. Not only are you out a mouse, so are the kids. That sucks for everyone.? I'm not done reading the thread -- can't wait to find out if it was found!? Micki =========================================================== We'll likely find it any day now as I bought a new one yesterday. We've tried a tidy up time. It has fallen into disuse since their parents don't always tell us when they are coming to pick them up and they both want to leave immediately. William A Wenrich Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. From john.c.lennard at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 17:48:02 2022 From: john.c.lennard at gmail.com (John Lennard) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:48:02 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: Message-ID: John: > As you mention colour-blind casting (meaning the actor's skin tone is > irrelevant), let me also mention one problem with it, which is that if one > says Othello -must- be played by an actor of colour (which is now pretty > much the case), one is also implicitly saying that no actor of colour can > play anyone else in *Othello*, including the much more interesting role of > Iago. It can be done, of course, as by the RSC a few years back with both > Othello and Iago played by actors of colour, but that was seen as gimmicky, > and the seemingly anti-racist rule has costs that those advocating it > rarely seem to register. Howard: I liked a movie production of Wuthering Heights with a black Heathcliff. It worked with our modern times. John: And is not so uncanonical -- Heathcliff is certainly swarthy, dark and dangerous, and there are some implications of Romany blood, or at least of arousing that suspicion. (Wuthering Heights is -not- reliably narrated, and Jabez Lockwood is a very odd duck indeed.) Making Heathcliff's darkness overt is a clear strategy, but there can be the danger of promoting readings in which actor of colour = character is alien/alienated/dangerous -- not so good a stereotype to promulgate. Anyone can play any role, for all of me -- I've seen a female Lear, a female Richard II, an Afro-Saxon male Rosalind, all wonderful -- but there are so many pitfalls. (Consider early casting of Klingons, frex ...) Walter: Have Othello be White and the rest of the cast Black. John: Yup, that's one route, taken by Patrick Stewart in a production in ... DC, IIRC, in the 2000s sometime. But there's a twist in the tale, because what happened was that Stewart really wanted to play Othello, and could only do so by persuading an African-American company to stage a so-called reverse or photo-negative version, with all the textual whites and blacks switched around (so, "an old white ram is tupping your black ewe" &c.) ; and the deal could work commercially mostly because he was then busy being Jean-Luc Picard and his name was a major draw. -- John Lennard, MA DPhil. (Oxon.), MA (WU) Associate Member, Hughes Hall, Cambridge Independent Scholar www.humanities-ebooks.co.uk *Mock-Death in Shakespeare's Plays* The first full study of Shakespeare's favourite dramatic device *The Exasperating Case of David Weber, or The Slow Death of The Honorverse* 22 years ago Weber created it and in the last ten he has broken it ... *Tolkien's Triumph: The Strange History of *The Lord of the Rings Just how did a 1000-page book with 6 appendices come to sell 8,500 copies per day? *Talking Sense About *Fifty Shades of Grey*, or Fanfiction, Feminism, and BDSM* The story the media *isn't* telling ... Available from Kindle Stores, and in PDF from the author. From margdean56 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 18:27:30 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:27:30 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: In-Reply-To: <6A15AFBA-245F-47A9-9F2E-7481A0C77E14@panix.com> References: <6A15AFBA-245F-47A9-9F2E-7481A0C77E14@panix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 9:24 AM WalterStuartBushell wrote: > > > > On Jan 13, 2022, at 10:35 AM, John Lennard > wrote: > > > > > > As you mention colour-blind casting (meaning the actor's skin tone is > > irrelevant), let me also mention one problem with it, which is that if > one > > says Othello -must- be played by an actor of colour (which is now pretty > > much the case), one is also implicitly saying that no actor of colour can > > play anyone else in *Othello*, including the much more interesting role > of > > Iago. ,< > > Have Othello be White and the rest of the cast Black. > Seems to me I've heard of that actually being done. The point here is that Othello's "otherness" -- however expressed -- is a necessary part of the plot in this particular play. --Margaret Dean From tlambs1138 at charter.net Thu Jan 13 18:34:19 2022 From: tlambs1138 at charter.net (Jean Lamb) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:34:19 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Death Count Message-ID: <0c0101d808ac$2d757860$88606920$@charter.net> Gwynne, you are a wicked woman. I loved that story, and the twist. Jean Lamb tlambs1138 at charter.net https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 From wawenri at msn.com Thu Jan 13 21:53:41 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 21:53:41 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Weapons tech TOI Message-ID: I've been wondering about the level of weapons tech at the end of the TOI. It was low enough that 2,000 "chefs" could make a real difference. It wasn't mechanized but gun powder weapons had been available for quite a while. I doubt that gold bullets lasted long. Was Dorca at the level of Gustav Adolf? US Civil war? I seem to remember a fan fic that described the beginning of railroads but I don't think that there was anything in canon. William A Wenrich May the ultimate source of all things be beneficial to you. From ravenclaweric at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 22:16:48 2022 From: ravenclaweric at gmail.com (Eric Oppen) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 16:16:48 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: <0c0101d808ac$2d757860$88606920$@charter.net> References: <0c0101d808ac$2d757860$88606920$@charter.net> Message-ID: Of course, when you speak of multiple deaths for Miles, I think of this: "Good evening. I am Count Vorkosigan. Enter freely and of your own will. *wolves howling in the distance * Children of the night....SHUT UP!" On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 12:34 PM Jean Lamb wrote: > Gwynne, you are a wicked woman. I loved that story, and the twist. > > > Jean Lamb > tlambs1138 at charter.net > https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 > > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rgmolpus at flash.net Thu Jan 13 22:22:23 2022 From: rgmolpus at flash.net (Richard G. Molpus) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 22:22:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Weapons tech TOI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1049849118.469945.1642112543433@mail.yahoo.com> >From Canon, firearms were available during the last decades of the TOI, but they were rare. Since potassium nitrate is a major component of gunpowder, as well as being a valuable fertilizer,? I can't see that much gunpowder was available.? Hand to hand combat would still be critical in most battles - as it was during the peninsular war and the later wars against Napoleon . Herself has stated that steam power was available,? but not very common, either as stationary engines or as locomotive engines. Few places had working milling machines or lathes, making all machining operation difficult.? Consider them as being pre US Civil War as a general rule.? Oh, so close! And then they were rediscovered, and WOW! Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 3:53 PM, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: I've been wondering about the level of weapons tech at the end of the TOI. It was low enough that 2,000 "chefs" could make a real difference. It wasn't mechanized but gun powder weapons had been available for quite a while. I doubt that gold bullets lasted long. Was Dorca at the level of Gustav Adolf? US Civil war? I seem to remember a fan fic that described the beginning of railroads but I don't think that there was anything in canon. William A Wenrich May the ultimate source of all things be beneficial to you. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rgmolpus at flash.net Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From mathews55 at msn.com Thu Jan 13 22:26:09 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 22:26:09 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Awwwww.... OK. No spoilers here. But ...Gwen, you are evil and sneaky. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Gwynne Powell Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 3:00 AM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: [LMB] Death Count From: Raymond Collins Frankly I want to see more Miles' stories and novels. If none are forthcoming so be it. Miles will be alive until Lois Mcmaster Bujold says otherwise. If fanfic has a story of Miles demise I hope it happens with a big gigantic big bang and not with a quiet whimper. Gwynne: (Posting this one with an evil grin)... https://archiveofourown.org/works/17849432 Condolences - Gwynne - Vorkosigan Saga - Lois McMaster Bujold [Archive of Our Own] An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works archiveofourown.org -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From rgmolpus at flash.net Thu Jan 13 22:27:32 2022 From: rgmolpus at flash.net (Richard G. Molpus) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 22:27:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: <0c0101d808ac$2d757860$88606920$@charter.net> Message-ID: <677036447.480491.1642112852400@mail.yahoo.com> There are thematic similarities between Miles and Taura. Both were limited by the bodies they had; Miles being so fragile due to his weak bones, Taura from the 'engineered body she had. Both knew their lifespans would be limited; dying young (compared with the general population) was their fate. Both had to grab as much living as they could, one eye on the calendar. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 4:17 PM, Eric Oppen wrote: Of course,? when you speak of multiple deaths for Miles,? I think of this: "Good evening.? I am Count Vorkosigan.? Enter freely and of your own will.? *wolves howling in the distance *? Children of the night....SHUT UP!" On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 12:34 PM Jean Lamb wrote: > Gwynne, you are a wicked woman. I loved that story, and the twist. > > > Jean Lamb > tlambs1138 at charter.net > https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Lamb/e/B00IR0YO20 > > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rgmolpus at flash.net Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From sukiyaki531 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 23:20:36 2022 From: sukiyaki531 at gmail.com (Sue Pittak) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:20:36 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Weapons Tech TOI Message-ID: Sue delurking (insert Klingon Bird of Prey visuals) William writes: I've been wondering about the level of weapons tech at the end of the TOI. It was low enough that 2,000 "chefs" could make a real difference. It wasn't mechanized but gun powder weapons had been available for quite a while. I doubt that gold bullets lasted long. Was Dorca at the level of Gustav Adolf? US Civil war? I seem to remember a fan fic that described the beginning of railroads but I don't think that there was anything in canon. From a Goodreads Q & A, LMB has this to say about that: Sarah asked Lois McMaster Bujold: I've been wondering about Barryar during the time of isolation. How much technology did they lose? It seemed that they had started using horses in warfare, and yet they appeared to re-acquire space travel very quickly after the Cetegandan's invaded. Lois McMaster Bujold: By the third generation, they had lost electricity, and were down to wind, water, and muscle power for a time. Loss of tech went hand-in-hand with loss of social cohesion, and came back much the same way. By the last quarter-century before the end of the ToI, they were getting electricity back. There followed about 15 years of very rapid development between the rediscovery and the Cetagandan invasion, half a generation. Development continued throughout the Occupation, in erratic patchy ways. Lots of off-planet imports turbo-boosted things, as well as disrupting them. Sue: sounds pretty definitive to me. I?ve always imagined Barrayaran society and tech being about pre-WWI level at the end of the TOI, and progressing rapidly (technologically, at least) to WWII level by the time the Occupation began. Still, a HUGE tech gap! Sue (activating cloaking device) Sent from my iPad From wawenri at msn.com Thu Jan 13 23:35:11 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 23:35:11 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing Message-ID: No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. From jpolowin at hotmail.com Thu Jan 13 23:37:31 2022 From: jpolowin at hotmail.com (Joel Polowin) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 23:37:31 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: Markus Baur > yes .. saunas are pretty dry > > consider this that you start with air at ambient temp and relative > humidity (lets say 20?C and 50%) - if you heat that up to 100?C you end > up with 0.8% relative humidity > > which is why sweating in a sauna works pretty well to keep your body > temperature under control .. and thus makes 100?C bearable for limited times I think that every sauna I've been in (which is not a large number) was heated at least partially by steam. Sometimes there have been jets of steam; other times some system for pouring water over heated rocks. Joel From saffronrose at me.com Thu Jan 13 23:39:54 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 15:39:54 -0800 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <077B9BC3-B350-4C7E-B0D1-435E1085806C@me.com> On Jan 13, 2022, at 2:17 PM, Eric Oppen wrote: > > ?Of course, when you speak of multiple deaths for Miles, I think of this: > > "Good evening. I am Count Vorkosigan. Enter freely and of your own > will. *wolves howling in the distance * Children of the night....SHUT UP!" We love that movie. Marina From saffronrose at me.com Thu Jan 13 23:49:15 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 15:49:15 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A1C9DC5-CA82-414C-A5BE-03F640858486@me.com> On Jan 13, 2022, at 9:22 AM, Markus Baur wrote: > > ?yes .. saunas are pretty dry SNIP > .. and thus makes 100?C bearable for limited times I can get as far as sticking my head in a sauna, notice I can?t breathe in that heat, and close the door. I don?t handle heat at all well, and heat in a small enclosed space even less. Marina From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 00:01:10 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:01:10 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Bushfires In-Reply-To: References: <25932296-0967-4CA5-A68D-F3BAAC050E7A@brazee.net> <73ECAE4B-BD8A-4132-868B-50F29ACC53AD@me.com> Message-ID: Our climate is going crazy. I read Australia just matched its hottest day on record from January 2 1960. Chances are good it might break that record. Also, I lived in Big Sur California for two years. In that time there had been no fires. Now it's normal to have several fires a year. I looked for an old friend's house that had an amazing view of the Pacific on Google Earth and found it's gone. On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 8:17 AM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 13, 2022, at 1:55 AM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > > > Your in Boulder County? > > Yes. > > Hole #1 of the golf course that I just paid for next year?s membership > used to have houses along its side. Those are some of the 1000 houses > lost in the fire. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 00:06:50 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:06:50 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Using smart phones In-Reply-To: <8C80ECF3-4F14-47CC-9528-EA69580ED47E@brazee.net> References: <1387536057.227145.1642067343828@mail.yahoo.com> <8C80ECF3-4F14-47CC-9528-EA69580ED47E@brazee.net> Message-ID: When I was a kid I remember a boy watching tv on his wrist in class on the animated TV show, " The Jetsons". On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 8:32 AM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 13, 2022, at 2:49 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Micki: Had to laugh out loud! Some things are true the world over. > That's the main purpose for OUR landline, too. I hate answering the damn > thing unless it says who is calling on the caller ID. Even then, I would > much rather someone else answer it. > > > > I don't have much use for the phone function of my phone, either. We get > free calls (even VIDEO CALLS, the future is HERE!) from an app, so the > phone is mostly for when I don't have wi-fi. > > My phone doesn?t ring when it doesn?t recognize the phone number. Every > once in a while, I have to turn that feature off while I wait for a call > from a company that uses lots of phone numbers (like Apple). I don?t use > video calls. > > I often use my phone?s music app to listen to the radio while taking a > walk, so maybe I use 5G, but I suspect it would sound just the same with 4G > or 3G. I do that when I?m caught up with podcasts (I don?t need my phone > to listen to podcasts, as they seem to be downloaded to my watch). Some > people watch movies on their phones, I guess they are the ones who want > that speed. (I don?t watch much TV) > > I track my steps and use a heart app. I also copy all of my ebooks to > my phone in case I?m out somewhere without my iPad. > > My desktop computer is where I do most all of my computing. My son?s SO > was doing inventory for MileHiCon?s auction with a computer in front of > her, but typing them in on her phone instead. I learned to type a > half-century ago and very much prefer a full-sized keyboard and screen. > It?s hard for me to imagine that in the future they will switch to voice, > but who knows what their interfaces will be? > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From domelouann at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 00:23:49 2022 From: domelouann at gmail.com (Louann Miller) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:23:49 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Update: husband had a good night and day in the hospital. Between supplemental oxygen and several medications, they got him comfortable and clear headed. He's terribly weak at the moment, but eating and sleeping well. We have things heading in the right direction, I think. Public Service Announcement: pneumonia is both sneaky and dangerous, do not fool around with it. It will happily kill you stone dead if you put off treatment too long or try to do too much before you recover. Don't do that. From saffronrose at me.com Fri Jan 14 00:36:06 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 16:36:06 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D7E466C-4802-4240-AFA2-667A643D6BD3@me.com> On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Louann Miller wrote: > > ?Update: husband had a good night and day in the hospital. Between > supplemental oxygen and several medications, they got him comfortable and > clear headed. He's terribly weak at the moment, but eating and sleeping > well. We have things heading in the right direction, I think. Happy to hear positive progress! > Public Service Announcement: pneumonia is both sneaky and dangerous, do > not fool around with it. It will happily kill you stone dead if you put off > treatment too long or try to do too much before you recover. Don't do that. I like breathing easily, I admit, and take not being able to do so very seriously. Allergies are a nuisance. Marina From mathews55 at msn.com Fri Jan 14 01:54:32 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 01:54:32 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good for the charter school. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of WILLIAM A WENRICH Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:35 PM To: Dendarri List Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From saffronrose at me.com Fri Jan 14 03:08:25 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 19:08:25 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: Goldfish taught to drive on land for Israeli animal behavior study : NPR Message-ID: <3F83756F-9F13-4CA0-A716-74BF34E7873B@me.com> A little light reading. Some old guard feminists may wonder if it will work with the fish steering a bicycle. https://www.npr.org/2022/01/11/1072095219/goldfish-driving-car-israel-study A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From lmb at matija.com Fri Jan 14 03:26:28 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 03:26:28 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> On 13/01/2022 23:35, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. Shutting down a school because the attendance system is down seems to me an indication that the school has it's priorities all wrong. From saffronrose at me.com Fri Jan 14 03:36:10 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 19:36:10 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> Message-ID: <9CB18824-5A56-4CB8-BDF9-868FB3BB6625@me.com> On Jan 13, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > ?On 13/01/2022 23:35, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >> No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. > Shutting down a school because the attendance system is down seems to me an indication that the school has its priorities all wrong. Funding is dependent on attendance levels in most US public schools. Marina From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 04:27:22 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:27:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: <727A6031-40BC-4BDB-AF3A-67ED1C994454@comcast.net> References: <727A6031-40BC-4BDB-AF3A-67ED1C994454@comcast.net> Message-ID: <582242887.563991.1642134442115@mail.yahoo.com> On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 05:29:05 AM GMT+9, Robert Woodward wrote: > On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:23:33 +0000, Gwynne Powell > wrote: > >> >> >> Some years ago we were told to avoid saying 'Yes' when a phone >> scammer rang. That they ask if you are Person X, knowing that >> you probably are, to get you to say "Yes," so that they can record >> that, cut it, and make it sound as if you'd consented to whatever >> they were selling. >> >> I don't know if that was ever true, although the warnings at the >> time included government spokesbobbles, as well as current >> affairs shows (cut to interviews with sad victims of the scam....) >> Haven't heard anything about it lately, though - was it ever a real >> thing? And is it still? > > AFAIK, it was never true. Robert: I have had repeated calls from people who started out asking a question that invited the answer ?Yes?. Micki: In the wonderful "Faking It" by Jennifer Crusie, Davey the con artist teaches his niece how to "run a con" on a young man she'd like to date. I believe the first step was getting the mark to say "yes" -- if they say yes once, it's easier to keep saying yes to things is the way the theory goes. So, it may not be recording nefariousness, but psychological nefariousness.? From baur at chello.at Fri Jan 14 04:30:41 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 05:30:41 +0100 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <9CB18824-5A56-4CB8-BDF9-868FB3BB6625@me.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> <9CB18824-5A56-4CB8-BDF9-868FB3BB6625@me.com> Message-ID: <68e109e4-62e4-2018-4dcf-64f3e0a67958@chello.at> there is a newfangled technology that could be used to record attendance in such emergency situations .. it is called pen (or pencil) and paper and it is known to work well under very adverse conditions the next fall back would be clay slabs and reeds or blocks of stone and chissels (while those are much harder to use, they do have other advantages) servus markus Am 14.01.2022 um 04:36 schrieb A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold: > On Jan 13, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: >> >> ?On 13/01/2022 23:35, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >>> No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. >> Shutting down a school because the attendance system is down seems to me an indication that the school has its priorities all wrong. > > Funding is dependent on attendance levels in most US public schools. > > Marina From baur at chello.at Fri Jan 14 04:31:29 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 05:31:29 +0100 Subject: [LMB] Fwd: OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <68e109e4-62e4-2018-4dcf-64f3e0a67958@chello.at> References: <68e109e4-62e4-2018-4dcf-64f3e0a67958@chello.at> Message-ID: <20decb2b-a1c2-3fc6-1793-9d50326adf4c@chello.at> there is a newfangled technology that could be used to record attendance in such emergency situations .. it is called pen (or pencil) and paper and it is known to work well under very adverse conditions the next fall back would be clay slabs and reeds or blocks of stone and chissels (while those are much harder to use, they do have other advantages) servus markus Am 14.01.2022 um 04:36 schrieb A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold: > On Jan 13, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: >> >> ?On 13/01/2022 23:35, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >>> No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. >> Shutting down a school because the attendance system is down seems to me an indication that the school has its priorities all wrong. > > Funding is dependent on attendance levels in most US public schools. > > Marina From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 04:36:19 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:36:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <182d14ff-699d-7442-2387-78166473dbe7@matija.com> References: <240410038.860443.1641799509730@mail.yahoo.com> <17e430bce28.b7e2fa7534005.7686998668825285347@zoho.com> <1547321291.869569.1641804512678@mail.yahoo.com> <8E485992-6E93-4F94-B0D2-7F0AEE437B82@panix.com> <182d14ff-699d-7442-2387-78166473dbe7@matija.com> Message-ID: <342223489.587619.1642134979656@mail.yahoo.com> On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 06:14:26 AM GMT+9, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: On 11/01/2022 17:17, Howard Brazee wrote: > Before mass-produced clothing, the wealthy had tailors, and the poor tried to make do with what they could afford to make. > > It?s not valid to use Regency Romances as a source, but when clothing was dear, a Red Coat uniform could make a young man very attractive. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that queen Catherine made Henry VIII's shirts. Can any of the resident historians confirm? -- Micki: Not a historian, but that detail was in one of the Wolf Hall books by Hilary Mantel. Here's a link from the Royal Collection Trust that says she kept making his shirts even during divorce proceedings. I think it was a symbol of wifely love, and I don't remember hearing of any of the other wives doing it for him.?https://www.rct.uk/collection/themes/exhibitions/in-fine-style/the-queens-gallery-palace-of-holyroodhouse/catherine-of-aragon-1485-1536 From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 04:55:15 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:55:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Mercutio and Tybalt OT: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1717676555.574926.1642136115140@mail.yahoo.com> On Thursday, January 13, 2022, 02:59:59 AM GMT+9, Gwynne Powell wrote: From: John Lennard I clipped it for brevity, but that was a wonderful post - thank you, John! -- Micki: Here, here! I agree!? From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 04:59:49 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:59:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1055454422.569952.1642136389352@mail.yahoo.com> Louann, hope he gets three books, and that's as many as he needs before he's released whole and healthy to the loving pages of the family library!? Micki From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 05:02:11 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 05:02:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: A day I'd rather had not happened. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <716764023.566578.1642136531640@mail.yahoo.com> Hope all goes well, and the people are feeling fine, while the cars are back on the road soon.? Micki From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 05:10:57 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 05:10:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> Message-ID: <1328978635.584348.1642137057912@mail.yahoo.com> On Thursday, January 13, 2022, 07:15:33 PM GMT+9, WalterStuartBushell wrote: > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:53 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > As for the mouse/battery problem, have you tried taping the mouse? May have to hide it in a drawer when it's not in use. > > Micki Use a wired mouse, solves the battery problem and you can always find it. I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. ? Micki: I got a "free" wireless mouse when I bought one of my computers, and was suspicious of it . . . but it really was quite nice. It was bendy, so it fit in my computer bag pocket, and was very portable. I liked it a lot, and I imagine it would save a few problems re: cats.? Then I learned how to use the track pad on the computer, which I LOVE. I'm hard on keyboards and trackpads, though, so I am currently typing on a separate keyboard with a nice big trackpad. Very good arrangement, and considerably smaller (even with the two pieces) than my first laptop computer.? Micki From jpolowin at hotmail.com Fri Jan 14 05:12:58 2022 From: jpolowin at hotmail.com (Joel Polowin) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 05:12:58 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Goldfish taught to drive on land for Israeli animal behavior study : NPR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "A. Marina Fournier" wrote: > A little light reading. Some old guard feminists may wonder if it will > work with the fish steering a bicycle. > https://www.npr.org/2022/01/11/1072095219/goldfish-driving-car-israel-study First panel, bottom right: https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20031001 (For those who -- tragically -- don't have the original issue #6 of _Girl Genius_ from before its webcomic days. As reproduced in fan art form: https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/gallery/readerart.php?date=20061129.) Joel From jpolowin at hotmail.com Fri Jan 14 05:17:18 2022 From: jpolowin at hotmail.com (Joel Polowin) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 05:17:18 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Goldfish taught to drive on land for Israeli animal behavior study : NPR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joel Polowin wrote: > First panel, bottom right: > https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20031001 (For those who > -- tragically -- don't have the original issue #6 of _Girl Genius_ > from before its webcomic days.? As reproduced in fan art form: Glitch corrected: https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/gallery/readerart.php?date=20061129 .) Joel From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 05:22:38 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 05:22:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Using smart phones In-Reply-To: <8C80ECF3-4F14-47CC-9528-EA69580ED47E@brazee.net> References: <1387536057.227145.1642067343828@mail.yahoo.com> <8C80ECF3-4F14-47CC-9528-EA69580ED47E@brazee.net> Message-ID: <1957887050.569420.1642137758654@mail.yahoo.com> On Thursday, January 13, 2022, 11:32:29 PM GMT+9, Howard Brazee wrote: My phone doesn?t ring when it doesn?t recognize the phone number.? Every once in a while, I have to turn that feature off while I wait for a call from a company that uses lots of phone numbers (like Apple).? ? I don?t use video calls.? I often use my phone?s music app to listen to the radio while taking a walk, so maybe I use 5G, but I suspect it would sound just the same with 4G or 3G.? I do that when I?m caught up with podcasts (I don?t need my phone to listen to podcasts, as they seem to be downloaded to my watch).? Some people watch movies on their phones, I guess they are the ones who want that speed.? (I don?t watch much TV) I track my steps and use a heart app.? ? I also copy all of my ebooks to my phone in case I?m out somewhere without my iPad. My desktop computer is where I do most all of my computing.? My son?s SO was doing inventory for MileHiCon?s auction with a computer in front of her, but typing them in on her phone instead.? I learned to type a half-century ago and very much prefer a full-sized keyboard and screen.? It?s hard for me to imagine that in the future they will switch to voice, but who knows what their interfaces will be?? -- Micki: I've got my computing life pretty well separated. I hate typing on the phone. With the computer, I often know when I've made a mistake as I make it, and can just back up automatically, but I have to PROOFREAD with the phone, because I so often hit the wrong key with my big stubby fingers (or worse, hit an autocorrect word). So, aside from Twitter, most of my consumption (YouTube, reading the news, etc) is on the phone, without so much input. And the input things (my YouTube channel with the cats, blogging, this group) is on the computer.? So weird how my mind separates these things.? By the way, I'm posting cats again. If you are a fan (even though it's not Caturday yet), it might be worth checking out. This is Mama Tabby trilling for babies.?https://youtu.be/LCDoJJQHnpk?Tomorrow (Caturday my time), I've scheduled some cute videos of cats playing with humidifier mist. Almost all my videos are under 90 seconds long, so it's not that much of a time commitment. Just a short palate cleanser during these trying Plague Years.? Micki From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 05:36:40 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 23:36:40 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Death Count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ha ha. Nice, and indeed sneaky. On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:26 PM Pat Mathews wrote: > Awwwww.... OK. No spoilers here. But ...Gwen, you are evil and sneaky. > ________________________________ > From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of > Gwynne Powell > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 3:00 AM > To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > Subject: [LMB] Death Count > > From: Raymond Collins > > > Frankly I want to see more Miles' stories and novels. If none are > forthcoming so be it. Miles will be alive until Lois Mcmaster Bujold says > otherwise. > If fanfic has a story of Miles demise I hope it happens with a big gigantic > big bang and not with a quiet whimper. > > Gwynne: (Posting this one with an evil grin)... > > https://archiveofourown.org/works/17849432 > > > Condolences - Gwynne - Vorkosigan Saga - Lois McMaster Bujold [Archive of > Our Own] > An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative > Works > archiveofourown.org > > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Fri Jan 14 05:41:09 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 05:41:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> Message-ID: <1659062555.587609.1642138869499@mail.yahoo.com> On Friday, January 14, 2022, 12:26:37 PM GMT+9, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: On 13/01/2022 23:35, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. Matija: Shutting down a school because the attendance system is down seems to me an indication that the school has it's priorities all wrong. -- Micki: I can't help but wonder if in Arizona, it's almost impossible to shut school down because of COVID or staffing shortages, but shutting down because "the computers are down" is acceptable and a sneaky way to keep kids and staff home. I'll be interested in hearing how many days "the computers are down".? (Drifting) I am so thankful my kids are grown up and don't have little kids of their own yet. So many hard, hard decisions to make as a parent in this day and age.? (On topic) I do wonder what the parents did during the Sergyar Worm Plague.? Micki From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 05:45:58 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 23:45:58 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is a book in the 1970s that was a acount of a journalist living in the Soviet Union. One passage of his book was how Russains loved saunas but there always seemed to be a character who would too much water over the coals forcing everybody out of the room when the heat and humidity got too much. The book was called "Russia". On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 5:37 PM Joel Polowin wrote: > From: Markus Baur > > yes .. saunas are pretty dry > > > > consider this that you start with air at ambient temp and relative > > humidity (lets say 20?C and 50%) - if you heat that up to 100?C you end > > up with 0.8% relative humidity > > > > which is why sweating in a sauna works pretty well to keep your body > > temperature under control .. and thus makes 100?C bearable for limited > times > > I think that every sauna I've been in (which is not a large number) was > heated at least partially by steam. Sometimes there have been jets of > steam; other times some system for pouring water over heated rocks. > > Joel > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 05:48:05 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 23:48:05 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: <7D7E466C-4802-4240-AFA2-667A643D6BD3@me.com> References: <7D7E466C-4802-4240-AFA2-667A643D6BD3@me.com> Message-ID: I'm glad his health is improving. On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:36 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Louann Miller wrote: > > > > ?Update: husband had a good night and day in the hospital. Between > > supplemental oxygen and several medications, they got him comfortable and > > clear headed. He's terribly weak at the moment, but eating and sleeping > > well. We have things heading in the right direction, I think. > > Happy to hear positive progress! > > > Public Service Announcement: pneumonia is both sneaky and dangerous, do > > not fool around with it. It will happily kill you stone dead if you put > off > > treatment too long or try to do too much before you recover. Don't do > that. > > I like breathing easily, I admit, and take not being able to do so very > seriously. Allergies are a nuisance. > > Marina > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From baur at chello.at Fri Jan 14 06:00:42 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 07:00:42 +0100 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50ff2729-5216-732e-e2a9-16bf4f6e65fd@chello.at> Am 14.01.2022 um 00:37 schrieb Joel Polowin: > From: Markus Baur >> yes .. saunas are pretty dry >> >> consider this that you start with air at ambient temp and relative >> humidity (lets say 20?C and 50%) - if you heat that up to 100?C you end >> up with 0.8% relative humidity >> >> which is why sweating in a sauna works pretty well to keep your body >> temperature under control .. and thus makes 100?C bearable for limited times > > I think that every sauna I've been in (which is not a large number) was > heated at least partially by steam. Sometimes there have been jets of > steam; that is a steam bath (which runs on much lower temperatures) finnish / swedish sauna is usually heated by a wood stove (i am discounting the older smoke sauna and electric sauna stoves here) and is dry until: other times some system for pouring water over heated rocks. this is usually done by hand and in very limited quantities (and the quantities involved usually are a subject of heated (pun intended) discussion the amount of water used here is relatively low - it increases humidity (and makes sweating less efficient, thus makes you sweat even harder), but relative humidity is still quite low .. servus markus > Joel From ravenclaweric at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 06:33:54 2022 From: ravenclaweric at gmail.com (Eric Oppen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 00:33:54 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <50ff2729-5216-732e-e2a9-16bf4f6e65fd@chello.at> References: <50ff2729-5216-732e-e2a9-16bf4f6e65fd@chello.at> Message-ID: That book sounds like it could have been Hedrick Smiths'* The Russians*. I read it. On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 12:00 AM Markus Baur via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > Am 14.01.2022 um 00:37 schrieb Joel Polowin: > > From: Markus Baur > >> yes .. saunas are pretty dry > >> > >> consider this that you start with air at ambient temp and relative > >> humidity (lets say 20?C and 50%) - if you heat that up to 100?C you end > >> up with 0.8% relative humidity > >> > >> which is why sweating in a sauna works pretty well to keep your body > >> temperature under control .. and thus makes 100?C bearable for limited > times > > > > I think that every sauna I've been in (which is not a large number) was > > heated at least partially by steam. Sometimes there have been jets of > > steam; > > that is a steam bath (which runs on much lower temperatures) > > finnish / swedish sauna is usually heated by a wood stove (i am > discounting the older smoke sauna and electric sauna stoves here) and is > dry until: > > other times some system for pouring water over heated rocks. > > this is usually done by hand and in very limited quantities (and the > quantities involved usually are a subject of heated (pun intended) > discussion > > the amount of water used here is relatively low - it increases humidity > (and makes sweating less efficient, thus makes you sweat even harder), > but relative humidity is still quite low .. > > servus > > markus > > > > Joel > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From lmb at matija.com Fri Jan 14 09:14:30 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:14:30 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <1659062555.587609.1642138869499@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> <1659062555.587609.1642138869499@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 14/01/2022 05:41, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > I can't help but wonder if in Arizona, it's almost impossible to shut school down because of COVID or staffing shortages, but shutting down because "the computers are down" is acceptable and a sneaky way to keep kids and staff home. I'll be interested in hearing how many days "the computers are down". Ooooh! That sounds plausible! It's a possibility that had not even occurred to me. From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 10:22:31 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 04:22:31 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: <50ff2729-5216-732e-e2a9-16bf4f6e65fd@chello.at> Message-ID: I believe you are correct. I really enjoyed his book. At the time I read it I was living at Robinson Robinson Barack in Bad Constatt Germany just outside of Stuttgart, in 1976. The dichotomy of how we saw the Russains was most apparent when I read this book in the atmosphere of a military base, in we got civilian bugout cards incase of Russain and East German invasion for our wallets. On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 12:34 AM Eric Oppen wrote: > That book sounds like it could have been Hedrick Smiths'* The Russians*. I > read it. > > On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 12:00 AM Markus Baur via Lois-Bujold < > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > > Am 14.01.2022 um 00:37 schrieb Joel Polowin: > > > From: Markus Baur > > >> yes .. saunas are pretty dry > > >> > > >> consider this that you start with air at ambient temp and relative > > >> humidity (lets say 20?C and 50%) - if you heat that up to 100?C you > end > > >> up with 0.8% relative humidity > > >> > > >> which is why sweating in a sauna works pretty well to keep your body > > >> temperature under control .. and thus makes 100?C bearable for limited > > times > > > > > > I think that every sauna I've been in (which is not a large number) was > > > heated at least partially by steam. Sometimes there have been jets of > > > steam; > > > > that is a steam bath (which runs on much lower temperatures) > > > > finnish / swedish sauna is usually heated by a wood stove (i am > > discounting the older smoke sauna and electric sauna stoves here) and is > > dry until: > > > > other times some system for pouring water over heated rocks. > > > > this is usually done by hand and in very limited quantities (and the > > quantities involved usually are a subject of heated (pun intended) > > discussion > > > > the amount of water used here is relatively low - it increases humidity > > (and makes sweating less efficient, thus makes you sweat even harder), > > but relative humidity is still quite low .. > > > > servus > > > > markus > > > > > > > Joel > > -- > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From howard at brazee.net Fri Jan 14 13:30:48 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 06:30:48 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75ACA15C-0FF6-4E70-A89A-EFDE3D80FED2@brazee.net> > On Jan 13, 2022, at 10:45 PM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > There is a book in the 1970s that was a acount of a journalist living in > the Soviet Union. One passage of his book was how Russains loved saunas but > there always seemed to be a character who would too much water over the > coals forcing everybody out of the room when the heat and humidity got too > much. The book was called "Russia?. Over here, we have what we call saunas and what we call steam rooms. We don?t have water in our saunas. From wawenri at msn.com Fri Jan 14 15:51:46 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:51:46 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Weapons Tech TOI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Sue Pittak Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:20:36 PM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: [LMB] Weapons Tech TOI Sue delurking (insert Klingon Bird of Prey visuals) William writes: I've been wondering about the level of weapons tech at the end of the TOI. It was low enough that 2,000 "chefs" could make a real difference. It wasn't mechanized but gun powder weapons had been available for quite a while. I doubt that gold bullets lasted long. Was Dorca at the level of Gustav Adolf? US Civil war? I seem to remember a fan fic that described the beginning of railroads but I don't think that there was anything in canon. >From a Goodreads Q & A, LMB has this to say about that: Sarah asked Lois McMaster Bujold: I've been wondering about Barryar during the time of isolation. How much technology did they lose? It seemed that they had started using horses in warfare, and yet they appeared to re-acquire space travel very quickly after the Cetegandan's invaded. Lois McMaster Bujold: By the third generation, they had lost electricity, and were down to wind, water, and muscle power for a time. Loss of tech went hand-in-hand with loss of social cohesion, and came back much the same way. By the last quarter-century before the end of the ToI, they were getting electricity back. There followed about 15 years of very rapid development between the rediscovery and the Cetagandan invasion, half a generation. Development continued throughout the Occupation, in erratic patchy ways. Lots of off-planet imports turbo-boosted things, as well as disrupting them. Sue: sounds pretty definitive to me. I?ve always imagined Barrayaran society and tech being about pre-WWI level at the end of the TOI, and progressing rapidly (technologically, at least) to WWII level by the time the Occupation began. Still, a HUGE tech gap! Sue (activating cloaking device) Sent from my iPad -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C5a064494d58b40f7d57d08d9d6eb5663%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637777128525319549%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=bXX5MJvyQ3LZ6BlUZgkf6WbTrhJUuQJptlhZcAxOw6k%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Fri Jan 14 16:05:41 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:05:41 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: <7D7E466C-4802-4240-AFA2-667A643D6BD3@me.com> Message-ID: I?ve had three friends hospitalized for bacterial pneumonia and two for COVID pneumonia. Advice from a nurse friend, wash masks in very hot water and change masks often. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Raymond Collins Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 10:48:05 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: Family health worry I'm glad his health is improving. On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:36 PM A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Louann Miller wrote: > > > > ?Update: husband had a good night and day in the hospital. Between > > supplemental oxygen and several medications, they got him comfortable and > > clear headed. He's terribly weak at the moment, but eating and sleeping > > well. We have things heading in the right direction, I think. > > Happy to hear positive progress! > > > Public Service Announcement: pneumonia is both sneaky and dangerous, do > > not fool around with it. It will happily kill you stone dead if you put > off > > treatment too long or try to do too much before you recover. Don't do > that. > > I like breathing easily, I admit, and take not being able to do so very > seriously. Allergies are a nuisance. > > Marina > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C76751b1813be42a5711208d9d7217f35%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637777361133699090%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=eLWfXA8%2BPqXq9wtMCBmizSBQqK%2BzKPIl2hNvT6uNYBs%3D&reserved=0 > -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7C76751b1813be42a5711208d9d7217f35%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637777361133699090%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=eLWfXA8%2BPqXq9wtMCBmizSBQqK%2BzKPIl2hNvT6uNYBs%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Fri Jan 14 16:10:42 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:10:42 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <1659062555.587609.1642138869499@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> <1659062555.587609.1642138869499@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: IIRC, the worm plague wasn?t a contagious disease. At certain times of the year, a parasite was present that caused scaring in humans. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 10:41:09 PM To: Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold Cc: M. Haller Yamada Subject: Re: [LMB] OT: School Closing On Friday, January 14, 2022, 12:26:37 PM GMT+9, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: On 13/01/2022 23:35, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. Matija: Shutting down a school because the attendance system is down seems to me an indication that the school has it's priorities all wrong. -- Micki: I can't help but wonder if in Arizona, it's almost impossible to shut school down because of COVID or staffing shortages, but shutting down because "the computers are down" is acceptable and a sneaky way to keep kids and staff home. I'll be interested in hearing how many days "the computers are down". (Drifting) I am so thankful my kids are grown up and don't have little kids of their own yet. So many hard, hard decisions to make as a parent in this day and age. (On topic) I do wonder what the parents did during the Sergyar Worm Plague. Micki -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cb63ae3a214b64782b84408d9d7208070%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637777356865464096%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=2Lx%2BnLLDKNnQyyjP8LUQpjwMUN12KrD%2BFYgOleAvd20%3D&reserved=0 From saffronrose at me.com Fri Jan 14 18:05:47 2022 From: saffronrose at me.com (A. Marina Fournier) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:05:47 -0800 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> Message-ID: <48F93CF9-F407-48C6-9FB2-0D02F88D8532@me.com> It?s beyond the attendance issue. More info: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/14/1072970219/cyber-attack-in-albuquerque-latest-to-target-public-schools A. Marina Fournier saffronrose at me.com Je persisterai quand m?me, car j?ais surv?cu d??tre n?e Valley of Heart?s Delight. CA Sent from iFionnghuala From matt.msg at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 19:59:09 2022 From: matt.msg at gmail.com (Matthew George) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 14:59:09 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 4:17 PM Mieke via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > The Vorbarra house colors are black and silver, not red and blue. I do believe that is correct. Thank you. > Red and blue is gala dress for the military. > Something like that, I'm not quite sure I understand those details fully. Perhaps there is a distinction between the Emperorship and the Vorbarra-dom? In any case, silver-and-black still suggests Barra went first. Matt "good sartorial taste" G. From lmb at matija.com Fri Jan 14 21:06:22 2022 From: lmb at matija.com (Matija Grabnar) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 21:06:22 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 14/01/2022 19:59, Matthew George wrote: > Something like that, I'm not quite sure I understand those details fully. > Perhaps there is a distinction between the Emperorship and the > Vorbarra-dom? > > In any case, silver-and-black still suggests Barra went first. To the best of my recollection, the Barrayaran military does not wear Vorbarra colors in any situation. Every day uniforms are green, and there is a formal green, parade uniforms are red-and-blue. While they are the Imperial army, they are not his house troops. I would not at all be surprised if the council of counts has some input on what the emperor can do with his army. Compare how, in the US, while the president is the commander in chief, only the Congress can declare war. (Aside the current dodge of authorizing emergencies). Compare how, when Aral was regent, his household troops wore Vorkosigan colors, but all the other soldiers wore imperial green. So when Gregor came of age, and assumed his full imperial privilege, If I remember correctly, Piotr put a lot of work in modernizing the military, going as far as having officer candidates addressed with the name stripped of the "Vor" prefix. It stands to reason that they didn't just do the cosmetic changes, but also changes in legislation to divorce the imperial family from imperial troops. I don't remember any textev on this, but it makes sense that while Gregor is commander in chief, the military is sworn to the empire, not to Gregor. From mathews55 at msn.com Fri Jan 14 21:11:36 2022 From: mathews55 at msn.com (Pat Mathews) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 21:11:36 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, yes. There is a difference between the Emperorship and the Vorbarradom. The Star Chamber scene in Ivan Vorpatril's Alliance outlined the three separate hats Gregor was wearing as he considered the Downfall of Impsec, Grand Theft - History, and release of unknown biologicals into the ecology. The Cordonahs were lucky to get off with deportation and 5% of the take. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Matthew George Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 12:59 PM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Colors On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 4:17 PM Mieke via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > The Vorbarra house colors are black and silver, not red and blue. I do believe that is correct. Thank you. > Red and blue is gala dress for the military. > Something like that, I'm not quite sure I understand those details fully. Perhaps there is a distinction between the Emperorship and the Vorbarra-dom? In any case, silver-and-black still suggests Barra went first. Matt "good sartorial taste" G. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to mathews55 at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From fishman at panix.com Fri Jan 14 21:58:25 2022 From: fishman at panix.com (Harvey Fishman) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 21:58:25 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Question: Does Vorlopoulis's Law apply to Gregor? Is he limited to 20 Armsmen? Harvey From domelouann at gmail.com Fri Jan 14 22:09:30 2022 From: domelouann at gmail.com (Louann Miller) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:09:30 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 3:58 PM Harvey Fishman wrote: > Question: Does Vorlopoulis's Law apply to Gregor? Is he limited to 20 > Armsmen? > Maybe Count Vorbarra has 20 armsmen, while Emperor Gregor has as many as he wants. From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sat Jan 15 00:15:43 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:15:43 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <75ACA15C-0FF6-4E70-A89A-EFDE3D80FED2@brazee.net> References: <75ACA15C-0FF6-4E70-A89A-EFDE3D80FED2@brazee.net> Message-ID: Russains also like whipping themselves with birch twigs. They believe it increases blood circulation while they sit in the sauna. I don't think this practice is done in the US either. On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 7:31 AM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 13, 2022, at 10:45 PM, Raymond Collins > wrote: > > > > There is a book in the 1970s that was a acount of a journalist living in > > the Soviet Union. One passage of his book was how Russains loved saunas > but > > there always seemed to be a character who would too much water over the > > coals forcing everybody out of the room when the heat and humidity got > too > > much. The book was called "Russia?. > > Over here, we have what we call saunas and what we call steam rooms. We > don?t have water in our saunas. > > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From rgmolpus at flash.net Sat Jan 15 01:19:34 2022 From: rgmolpus at flash.net (Richard Molpus) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 01:19:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] The Eternal Casting thread In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1172979101.338775.1642209574424@mail.yahoo.com> Another two suggestions: Rhys Ifan for Bothari Constantine.?? I saw him as Griguri Rasputin in the Kingsman movie, and he fit perfectly - given the heavy makeup.? He's got the body type, and the wild eyes needed for Bothari.? Ralph Fines for Piotr Vorkosigan. He's got the acting chops for it - and the ferocity of motion Piotr needs. Thin face (with some help from makeup), and the thin body needed. ? Daniel Radcliffe could do a young-ish Aral Vorkosigan... ? On Tuesday, November 30, 2021, 01:04:56 AM CST, Gwynne Powell wrote: From: "Richard G. Molpus" Another entry in the Eternal casting thread. I'd like to propose David Troughton for either Emperor Ezar or General Count Piotr Vorkosigan. Watching him rip an incompetent Colonel a new opening in ' Major Lennox Answered With His Life Sir!' Gwynne: I can see him as Ezar, definitely. Sometimes I see an actor and immediately identify them as exactly the right person for one of the characters. And sometimes I see an actor and like them so much I try to fit them to someone. And I'd like to add to the casting thread.... theme music. Some songs are just so perfect for particular characters; Viva la vida came on the radio while I was driving today (yes, I know it's Coldplay, but it's still a great song) and that song is so perfect for Yuri. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rgmolpus at flash.net Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From markgoldfield at hotmail.com Sat Jan 15 02:07:28 2022 From: markgoldfield at hotmail.com (Mark Goldfield) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 02:07:28 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8694684B-D5A7-460C-AC49-D204B4DD7D39@hotmail.com> In New York City, the Russian and Turkish Baths offers a whipping with oak twigs that they call "platza." I believe similar sauna practices exist in Finland. Mark On Jan 14, 2022, at 7:16 PM, Raymond Collins wrote: ?Russains also like whipping themselves with birch twigs. They believe it increases blood circulation while they sit in the sauna. I don't think this practice is done in the US either. From ravenclaweric at gmail.com Sat Jan 15 05:16:07 2022 From: ravenclaweric at gmail.com (Eric Oppen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 23:16:07 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <8694684B-D5A7-460C-AC49-D204B4DD7D39@hotmail.com> References: <8694684B-D5A7-460C-AC49-D204B4DD7D39@hotmail.com> Message-ID: I always thought it was masochism. "Yes! Whip me! Whip me harder! I'm such a naughty Russian!" On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 8:07 PM Mark Goldfield wrote: > > In New York City, the Russian and Turkish Baths offers a whipping with oak > twigs that they call "platza." I believe similar sauna practices exist in > Finland. > > Mark > On Jan 14, 2022, at 7:16 PM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > ?Russains also like whipping themselves with birch twigs. They believe it > increases blood circulation while they sit in the sauna. I don't think this > practice is done in the US either. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From baur at chello.at Sat Jan 15 06:15:49 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 07:15:49 +0100 Subject: [LMB] Fwd: OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <03075af1-28ef-f4f7-0a4e-8ef5683b3fc6@chello.at> References: <03075af1-28ef-f4f7-0a4e-8ef5683b3fc6@chello.at> Message-ID: yes .. they do you can find bundles of birch twigs (with leaves on) in finnish super markets, usually in the frozen goods section (i was pretty surprised when i saw that for the first time) https://www.myownsauna.com/twigs-vasta-or-vihta/ servus markus Am 15.01.2022 um 03:07 schrieb Mark Goldfield: > > In New York City, the Russian and Turkish Baths offers a whipping with oak twigs that they call "platza." I believe similar sauna practices exist in Finland. > > Mark > On Jan 14, 2022, at 7:16 PM, Raymond Collins wrote: > > ?Russains also like whipping themselves with birch twigs. They believe it > increases blood circulation while they sit in the sauna. I don't think this > practice is done in the US either. From baur at chello.at Sat Jan 15 06:16:02 2022 From: baur at chello.at (Markus Baur) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 07:16:02 +0100 Subject: [LMB] Fwd: OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <671c3eb7-8a8e-aacb-8275-baab4f1bccfa@chello.at> References: <671c3eb7-8a8e-aacb-8275-baab4f1bccfa@chello.at> Message-ID: <69eeacdd-5e6d-258b-1576-e2bef7bdaded@chello.at> as you usually do it to yourself, its more like auto-flagellantism which however would also fit into our sterotypes for the russian soul .. 8) servus markus Am 15.01.2022 um 06:16 schrieb Eric Oppen: > I always thought it was masochism. > > "Yes! Whip me! Whip me harder! I'm such a naughty Russian!" > > On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 8:07 PM Mark Goldfield > wrote: > >> >> In New York City, the Russian and Turkish Baths offers a whipping with oak >> twigs that they call "platza." I believe similar sauna practices exist in >> Finland. >> >> Mark >> On Jan 14, 2022, at 7:16 PM, Raymond Collins wrote: >> >> ?Russains also like whipping themselves with birch twigs. They believe it >> increases blood circulation while they sit in the sauna. I don't think this >> practice is done in the US either. >> -- >> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com >> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk >> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold >> From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Sat Jan 15 08:15:18 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 08:15:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> <1659062555.587609.1642138869499@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <287923392.935878.1642234518660@mail.yahoo.com> On 13/01/2022 23:35, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > No, not due to COVID-19. Albuquerque Public Schools was hacked and the attendance system is down. Emma and Elanor were out of school today and also tomorrow. Hazel and Anna's charter school just went back to manual attendance so they have school. Matija: Shutting down a school because the attendance system is down seems to me an indication that the school has it's priorities all wrong. -- Micki: (snip) (On topic) I do wonder what the parents did during the Sergyar Worm Plague. Micki William: IIRC, the worm plague wasn?t a contagious disease. At certain times of the year, a parasite was present that caused scaring in humans. -- Micki: Paging Karen! What do we have on the worm plague? I remember it mostly as a throw-away line once or twice in the series, one that allowed us to use our imaginations. So, William could be right.? I imagined it as a soil-based parasite that very likely had contagious elements, such as pinworms, which according to kidshealth's Google blurb, are contagious and people can ingest them or breathe them in.? But I'm willing to go with a scabies-like creature. Here's what the NIH has to say about them (well, one article, anyway): ?https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636197/#:~:text=Epidermal%20parasitic%20skin%20diseases%20(EPSD,hookworm%2Drelated%20cutaneous%20larva%20migrans. Scabies is spread through close physical contact, according to the Mayo Clinic, and can spread easily through a daycare or nursing home facility. It's also possible to spread them through towels, blankets, shared clothing, sexual contact . . . . (This is a combo of the NIH, plus the Mayo Clinic).?https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/scabies/symptoms-causes/syc-20377378 But, if the plague wasn't infectious (although "plague" kind of suggests it was), it could be spread through direct contact with the worms' primary habitat, and if that's dust, maybe it blew in the wind? Kind of like pollen? Wouldn't that be a nightmare! Pollen worms that hatched, burrowed under your skin, and then grew and grew and grew. Brrrrr!? I don't remember internal scarring being such an issue, though. Maybe I should read the books in question again, LOL.? Micki From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Sat Jan 15 08:17:53 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 08:17:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 06:58:36 AM GMT+9, Harvey Fishman wrote: Question: Does Vorlopoulis's Law apply to Gregor? Is he limited to 20 Armsmen? Harvey Micki: 20 sure doesn't seem like a lot, especially if you have a growing family. Drou was not an armsman; I'm also not sure if she carried a knife (even a Vorfemme knife . . . which would be problematic in a plebe?). But she could take down an enemy, and was surely trained in all sorts of non-knife weaponry.? From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Sat Jan 15 08:32:49 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 08:32:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <48F93CF9-F407-48C6-9FB2-0D02F88D8532@me.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> <48F93CF9-F407-48C6-9FB2-0D02F88D8532@me.com> Message-ID: <2026777904.935746.1642235569727@mail.yahoo.com> On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 03:05:58 AM GMT+9, A. Marina Fournier via Lois-Bujold wrote: It?s beyond the attendance issue. More info: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/14/1072970219/cyber-attack-in-albuquerque-latest-to-target-public-schools A. Marina Fournier -- Micki: Thanks, Marina! I ran across this after I posted (sorry, Arizona, for blaming you). I don't know if it really changes any suspicious writerly conspiracy theories, LOL.? However, I can certainly see why the school district would Cover Its Ass and close down with the information in the article. Do the teachers really know who are supposed to be picking up the kids?? Or . . . gosh, the more I think about it, the more I think something else is going on. I suppose it depends on staffing (if many teachers are out sick, substitute teachers would need to rely on the computers for information about who to send kids home with, etc.). It was either in the NPR article, or a different one, where they mentioned at least one of the non-Albuquerque school systems got hit before Christmas break, so they could work on things and get them back into order.? I read elsewhere on Twitter (yes, I know this sounds an awful like "I heard on the radio" and yes, it is, so take it with a grain of salt and a shot of Google) that high school students somewhere were taking two or three study halls, and just sitting around doing nothing because of teacher shortages.? Google mentions students taking study halls in Sand Diego Union Tribune, and also some students from the Isle of Man (GB/UK?) being told to learn from home. I knew via internet a lady who moved to the Isle of Man -- remote and small population. Hard to ship new teachers in, I would imagine.? For the flu, Japanese schools had rules for shutting down. I think when more than 30 percent of a class was absent, they'd put the class on "sick leave" (not the right word) for three to five days. And at a different percentage, they might close a whole grade or even the whole school for three to five days. It's been a few years since I was in the system; I'm not sure how they handle COVID.? Micki From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Sat Jan 15 08:56:28 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 08:56:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] OT: Caturday! References: <1397791916.951354.1642236988124.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1397791916.951354.1642236988124@mail.yahoo.com> Yes, this is off-topic, no matter how many times the little devil in my head tries to argue: "But Zap the CAAAAAAAT!" None of our cats shed on imperial uniforms that I know of, but many of us are fond of cats. So, I present a video from my YouTube channel: Cessna and Bikini: Kittens Hunting the Mist See, we got a new humidifier, and this one shoots mist out a spout, and then the cloud delightfully disappears. And the kittens are DUMBFOUNDED by this. Absolutely flabbergasted. Here, Cessna gently tries to investigate the mysterious entity that has shown up in his territory while Bikini watches. (Smart Bikini!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk3r1-4VGYY?((1:51 if I remember right.) Have a happy #Caturday, y'all, and why not share some pics or vids of your kitties? It's all in honor of Zap, right?? Micki From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sat Jan 15 10:44:37 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:44:37 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Caturday! In-Reply-To: <1397791916.951354.1642236988124@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1397791916.951354.1642236988124.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1397791916.951354.1642236988124@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This might a catamyst of epic proportion. On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 2:56 AM M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: > Yes, this is off-topic, no matter how many times the little devil in my > head tries to argue: "But Zap the CAAAAAAAT!" None of our cats shed on > imperial uniforms that I know of, but many of us are fond of cats. So, I > present a video from my YouTube channel: > > Cessna and Bikini: Kittens Hunting the Mist > > See, we got a new humidifier, and this one shoots mist out a spout, and > then the cloud delightfully disappears. And the kittens are DUMBFOUNDED by > this. Absolutely flabbergasted. Here, Cessna gently tries to investigate > the mysterious entity that has shown up in his territory while Bikini > watches. (Smart Bikini!) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk3r1-4VGYY ((1:51 if I remember right.) > > Have a happy #Caturday, y'all, and why not share some pics or vids of your > kitties? It's all in honor of Zap, right? > > Micki > > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 15 11:00:54 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:00:54 +0000 Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: "M. Haller Yamada" (On topic) I do wonder what the parents did during the Sergyar Worm Plague. Micki William: IIRC, the worm plague wasn?t a contagious disease. At certain times of the year, a parasite was present that caused scaring in humans. -- Micki: Paging Karen! What do we have on the worm plague? I remember it mostly as a throw-away line once or twice in the series, one that allowed us to use our imaginations. So, William could be right.? Gwynne: It's not a plague as in spreading disease, more like mouse plague meaning infestation. Although since the worms are native fauna, they're really just part of the landscape. The worms spend part of their life cycle underground. At a certain point in their life cycle they wait for a host. If they infest a human the different biology means the worms don't survive, but first they burrow around under the skin and leave serious scarring. Cordelia mentions that they were lucky, in that walk across Sergyar, that it wasn't the host-seeking part of their life cycle, or she and Aral could have been infested. So it's a regular seasonal thing. In DI, the young hero/idiot (I am NOT looking up his name or I'll end up rereading the whole book again, and I have no TIME right now!).. the young Sergyaran has scars over his body and Miles wonders if as a child, and new to Sergyar, the other kids welcomed him by rolling him over some wormholes. There's a vaccination for the worms by the latest book, but some of the teens prefer to use the worms to make interesting scar patterns (cheaper than tattooing?) I don't know what the parents do, but it's probably what all parents of teens do. Some things don't change. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 15 11:02:56 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:02:56 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: "M. Haller Yamada" On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 06:58:36 AM GMT+9, Harvey Fishman wrote: Question: Does Vorlopoulis's Law apply to Gregor? Is he limited to 20 Armsmen? Harvey Gwynne: Count Vorbarra is limited to twenty armsmen, just like every other Count. The Emperor has the whole military service - they all swear loyalty oaths to him. From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sat Jan 15 11:06:22 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:06:22 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Caturday! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: "M. Haller Yamada" Yes, this is off-topic, no matter how many times the little devil in my head tries to argue: "But Zap the CAAAAAAAT!" None of our cats shed on imperial uniforms that I know of, but many of us are fond of cats. So, I present a video from my YouTube channel:... Gwynne: They're gorgeous! From huntkc at gmail.com Sat Jan 15 12:32:23 2022 From: huntkc at gmail.com (Karen Hunt) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 07:32:23 -0500 Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: <287923392.935878.1642234518660@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> <1659062555.587609.1642138869499@mail.yahoo.com> <287923392.935878.1642234518660@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 3:15 AM M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold < lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote: [snippage] > (On topic) I do wonder what the parents did during the Sergyar Worm Plague. > > Micki > > William: IIRC, the worm plague wasn?t a contagious disease. At certain > times of the year, a parasite was present that caused scaring in humans. > > -- > Micki: Paging Karen! What do we have on the worm plague? I remember it > mostly as a throw-away line once or twice in the series, one that allowed > us to use our imaginations. So, William could be right. > > I imagined it as a soil-based parasite that very likely had contagious > elements, such as pinworms, which according to kidshealth's Google blurb, > are contagious and people can ingest them or breathe them in. > > But I'm willing to go with a scabies-like creature. Here's what the NIH > has to say about them (well, one article, anyway): > [ more snippage ] There's an article on the fandom site: https://vorkosigan.fandom.com/wiki/Sergyaran_worm_plague It looks a bit skimpy to me, containing only references to the better information. One handy extra-canonical bit of info (list conversation): http://lists.herald.co.uk/old-archives/lois-bujold/970623-747 Gwynne's description is about right. From rcrcoll6 at gmail.com Sat Jan 15 12:49:39 2022 From: rcrcoll6 at gmail.com (Raymond Collins) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 06:49:39 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with Gwynne. He probably has as a honor guard his 20 armsmen. But as Emperor he has the the full force of the Imperial guard as well as the the military to protect him. On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 5:03 AM Gwynne Powell wrote: > From: "M. Haller Yamada" > > On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 06:58:36 AM GMT+9, Harvey Fishman < > fishman at panix.com> wrote: > > Question: Does Vorlopoulis's Law apply to Gregor? Is he limited to 20 > Armsmen? > Harvey > > Gwynne: Count Vorbarra is limited to twenty armsmen, just like every other > Count. > > The Emperor has the whole military service - they all swear loyalty oaths > to him. > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 15 13:38:47 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 06:38:47 -0700 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> References: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3724B476-DDBA-4147-9863-BF3AA627D4A9@brazee.net> > On Jan 15, 2022, at 1:17 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > Question: Does Vorlopoulis's Law apply to Gregor? Is he limited to 20 > Armsmen? > > Harvey > > > > Micki: 20 sure doesn't seem like a lot, especially if you have a growing family. Drou was not an armsman; I'm also not sure if she carried a knife (even a Vorfemme knife . . . which would be problematic in a plebe?). But she could take down an enemy, and was surely trained in all sorts of non-knife weaponry. I always assumed (or maybe read) that the 20 armsman limit applied to Gregor as well. Of course that doesn?t mean that Gregor didn?t have armies and secret service and ImpSec working for him as well. From pouncer at aol.com Sat Jan 15 17:03:49 2022 From: pouncer at aol.com (Pouncer) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:03:49 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Joys of Doyle References: <22631ba5-8eab-40c8-a5d7-dff47867f6bb.ref@aol.com> Message-ID: <22631ba5-8eab-40c8-a5d7-dff47867f6bb@aol.com> John: >So there is no historical basis for assigning any particular age to >Mercutio or Tybalt. We don't know who created the roles (though we have > a limited pool of possibles in company members), and there is no > explicit or compelling internal evidence (as there is for Juliet and > Hamlet). It's fair to guess as seems good to one's take on things, but > it remains a guess. So much for Doyle, (Or SHAX, or Burbidge, in this case). We are left with the Watsonian clues and we infer what we can. Margaret: >> I remember my Shakespeare prof in college pointing out indications in >> the plays that there may have been "the short dark one" (Hermia, >> Celia) and "the tall blonde one" (Helena, Rosalind). Pouncer -- this is a true and I think highly interesting observation that encourages us to use Watsonian methods from within the text to draw inferences about what was going on in the real world, back stage, in the company's hiring practices and finances or whatever. It's like using the scripts of Saturday Night Live or the Tracy Ullman show to track the progress of the careers of Jane Curtain and Gilda Radner -- or Tracy and Julie Kravner. Or maybe guess why Vickie Lawrence, hired to play Carol Burnett's younger sister in the early run of the latter's skit comedy show, wound up her career playing, instead, Carol's character's "MAMA". Just guessing: perhaps Ms Lawrence had some difficulty shedding post-pregnancy weight gain, and presented with a more "maternal" figure in the later episodes? (Watsoning.) So, checking her bio, we discover the run of the show was from 1967 (when Lawrence was hired as the little sister) to 1978 and Lawrence bore her children in 1975 and 1977 (Doyle). So without further research we might still be willing to guess FROM THE ART that something very important was happening IN REAL LIFE. John: >And yup again. The contrast may have varied over time as boy actors >got older and either became adult players or left the stage, but as >with >the fat/thin odd couple pairings, having a clear contrast of the >paired heroines (derived from commedia dell'arte, where it's usually the prima donna inamorata and her friend or maid) in colouring or height >or both does several jobs -- helps the audience to know who's who, sets >up banter and insults, and stages difference that can be used for >humour and all sorts. Yes yes. The parent/child things in Lawrence's career. Also the "master / servant" dualities. Colonel Blake and Corporal O'Reily. The noble / mechanical confusions in Shax -- Rosalind as Ganymede is also comical as a pampered aristocrat pretending to be a shepherd. Leaving off American 1970's TV sitcoms for a moment, we might discuss the current trend of what terminology applies to the modern practice of inserting "Easter Eggs" in a work. In the Bujold Canon, it's most usually Tuckerization -- Ma and Martin Kosti alluding to the NPR broadcaster -- Vormuir and Vorfolse alluding to members of this List. The recognition of who these characters and names allude to is pretty Doylist -- we understand what Lois is about. And we get a little joy out of being part of the "inside" -- the privileged people who "get it". Nowadays these sort of thing has gone wild. The superhero franchises in particular assign character and street names to the artists and writers who worked on the concepts decades ago -- Ditko or Infanto or Clairmont... Anyhow, it's not clear to me that this sort of reference is either Doylist OR Watsonian. It's not about the current artist's life or finances or experiences. It's not about the character's perspective. It's a ploy to pay off the audience's presumed history or experience. "Yes, we know you remember the name of Supergirl's cat in 1965, so we're using that same name in the 2018 TV show..." Is there a technical name for the artist's insertion, and the consumer's recognition, of what fandom now calls the "Easter Egg"? Applying the Doylist methods to Herself's canon since the 1980s, we might note that among the first of her works was _Ethan of Athos_ . Jim Baen is reported to have discouraged similar works -- about "The Planet of Queers" or some such. So we have the very long publication gap between a sympathetic view of Ethan, and the reveal about Aral and his aide Jole. (under the editing, I might add, of Toni Weiskopf, right? So Baen's preferences have left the building...) From Doyle we might expect a follow-on with Arde Mayhew and Bel Thorne having adventures -- with United States/ Beta Colony sort of perspective -- in all sorts of alternative cultures. Instead we got a deep dive into Barrayar. I can't help but wonder how much Baen had a thumb on the scale of these artistic choices. (Do any old letters or e-mails from the 1980s still exist where the possibilities are discussed? Fic-fragments, and plot bunnies from Lois herself?) -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 15 17:08:18 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:08:18 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Temperature In-Reply-To: <30245d2d-1c6d-5a94-5f90-60eaf730f7b8@chello.at> References: <9FF7D6D3-1DBF-492F-8FD4-7273219FBFD3@me.com> <004701d8017a$8a01a0b0$9e04e210$@gmail.com> <6FCAE522-4206-48B9-87AC-53D0F15088AD@brazee.net> <5kortg9s2odfq1m3a139lvv217lfoeiqv4@4ax.com> <30245d2d-1c6d-5a94-5f90-60eaf730f7b8@chello.at> Message-ID: <5rv5ug9ou4j2pqnf6c8514khibso4vb75k@4ax.com> On Tue, 11 Jan 2022 21:53:05 +0100, markus baur via Lois-Bujold wrote: >and actually - you can survive 100?C air temperature - like in a sauna >for example But if your core temp reaches around 40, you're toast. -- Demian's Observation: There is always one item on the screen menu that is mislabeled and should read "ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE." From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 15 17:11:23 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:11:23 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Family health worry In-Reply-To: References: <7D7E466C-4802-4240-AFA2-667A643D6BD3@me.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:05:41 +0000, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: >I?ve had three friends hospitalized for bacterial pneumonia and two for COVID pneumonia. Advice from a nurse friend, wash masks in very hot water and change masks often. We have a 12-hour flight next week, and we've been advised that we need to have two changes of mask (every 4 hours). -- Demian's Observation: There is always one item on the screen menu that is mislabeled and should read "ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE." From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 15 17:16:48 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:16:48 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <2a92c0d3-8ea7-ef15-a062-bfd5931ac978@matija.com> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> <2a92c0d3-8ea7-ef15-a062-bfd5931ac978@matija.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:00:43 +0000, Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold wrote: >On 13/01/2022 10:15, WalterStuartBushell wrote: >> Use a wired mouse, solves the battery problem and you can always find it. >> >> I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. > >I can't stand wired mice anymore, the wire always gets in the way. > >I use wireless mice exclusively, but with rechargeable batteries, >nothing pops out if the mouse falls on the floor. +1 - I use a Logitech MX Anywhere Mouse. Works on practically any surface, has useful supplementary buttons, and a full charge lasts around a month. Bonus: the charging cable goes in where the cable would on a wired mouse, so you can use it while it's charging. Not ideal for southpaws, as the buttons are not symmetric - still usable as a basic mouse plus a bit. -- Being a paper boy or girl is a great first job, and also happens to combine three of the most dangerous things children can do: riding a bike in the dark, visiting strangers' houses and handling the Daily Mail. - Guy Browning. From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 15 17:18:56 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:18:56 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: <37038462-89EC-4596-B4FB-0DA8757A9AD8@brazee.net> References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> <37038462-89EC-4596-B4FB-0DA8757A9AD8@brazee.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 07:35:19 -0700, Howard Brazee wrote: > > >> On Jan 13, 2022, at 3:15 AM, WalterStuartBushell wrote: >> >> Use a wired mouse, solves the battery problem and you can always find it. >> >> I really don?t see the point of a wireless mouse. > >The only advantage for me is not using up a port. Is your mouse a bluetooth one, then? Because otherwise, they still need a port for the dongle (though the Logitech ones and some others can share, e.g. mouse, keyboard, trackpad etc can all be bound to one dongle). > That and the wireless mouse came with my computer. I bought a wired mouse for emergencies, but it uses the old USB standard, and my computer has the newer USB standard. Should be backwards compatible, though. -- Being a paper boy or girl is a great first job, and also happens to combine three of the most dangerous things children can do: riding a bike in the dark, visiting strangers' houses and handling the Daily Mail. - Guy Browning. From marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk Sat Jan 15 17:24:04 2022 From: marc.wilson at gmx.co.uk (Marc Wilson) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:24:04 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: Phishing In-Reply-To: <727A6031-40BC-4BDB-AF3A-67ED1C994454@comcast.net> References: <727A6031-40BC-4BDB-AF3A-67ED1C994454@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Jan 2022 12:27:49 -0800, Robert Woodward wrote: > > >> On Jan 11, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: >> >> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:23:33 +0000, Gwynne Powell >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Some years ago we were told to avoid saying 'Yes' when a phone >>> scammer rang. That they ask if you are Person X, knowing that >>> you probably are, to get you to say "Yes," so that they can record >>> that, cut it, and make it sound as if you'd consented to whatever >>> they were selling. >>> >>> I don't know if that was ever true, although the warnings at the >>> time included government spokesbobbles, as well as current >>> affairs shows (cut to interviews with sad victims of the scam....) >>> Haven't heard anything about it lately, though - was it ever a real >>> thing? And is it still? >> >> AFAIK, it was never true. > >I have had repeated calls from people who started out asking a question that invited the answer ?Yes?. That's more to do with psychology than some spurious legal trap, I suspect. Get someone into the habit of "yessing" and there's a tendency to keep going. -- Being a paper boy or girl is a great first job, and also happens to combine three of the most dangerous things children can do: riding a bike in the dark, visiting strangers' houses and handling the Daily Mail. - Guy Browning. From howard at brazee.net Sat Jan 15 17:28:59 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:28:59 -0700 Subject: [LMB] OT: Borrowing In-Reply-To: References: <001f01d806e2$e29300d0$a7b90270$@gordonj.net> <1227791576.212876.1642067596470@mail.yahoo.com> <0B5BB39B-EAD0-4E04-A39D-94FF2964FFF3@panix.com> <37038462-89EC-4596-B4FB-0DA8757A9AD8@brazee.net> Message-ID: > On Jan 15, 2022, at 10:18 AM, Marc Wilson wrote: > >> The only advantage for me is not using up a port. > > Is your mouse a bluetooth one, then? Because otherwise, they still need > a port for the dongle (though the Logitech ones and some others can > share, e.g. mouse, keyboard, trackpad etc can all be bound to one > dongle). Yes, I have one of the new iMacs. > >> That and the wireless mouse came with my computer. I bought a wired mouse for emergencies, but it uses the old USB standard, and my computer has the newer USB standard. > > Should be backwards compatible, though. Sure, as long as I can plug it in (with a dongle or an external bus). But I also have a bluetooth track pad, so I?m safe several ways. From john.c.lennard at gmail.com Sat Jan 15 19:30:30 2022 From: john.c.lennard at gmail.com (John Lennard) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 19:30:30 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Joys of Doyle Message-ID: Pouncer: So much for Doyle, (Or SHAX, or Burbidge, in this case). We are left with the Watsonian clues and we infer what we can. John: Yup. Or then again, we can think theatre and reader history. Having clearly specified ages in dramatic scripts is actually quite limited, and most obviously associated with the long stage directions found between, say, Shaw and Miller, Williams and Rattigan -- who were pre-empting aggressively adaptive directors and designers. In Shax -not- having any certainty about exact age is normative : if it matters to the plot, or to something else, or just eases along some bit of dialogue, we're told ; but if it doesn't, we're not -- it's a theatre role, will have many players after its creator, and many audiences, who will see actors who -look- this age, or that age, in themselves and with whatever make-up and performance. In Q2, Mercutio has 228 lines, Tybalt 36, and that's all they are, textually : everything else comes in performance, and varies. There is no single answer to the question of their ages. ObBujold: As Lois often says, responding to one of our questions, "Dunno. Didn't -have- to decide, so I didn't." Margaret: >> I remember my Shakespeare prof in college pointing out indications in >> the plays that there may have been "the short dark one" (Hermia, >> Celia) and "the tall blonde one" (Helena, Rosalind). Pouncer: this is a true and I think highly interesting observation that encourages us to use Watsonian methods from within the text to draw inferences about what was going on in the real world, back stage, in the company's hiring practices and finances or whatever. John: Doesn't have to be Watsonian. There are instances in early Shax texts where a speech-prefix gives the name of the actor, not the role ; that's why we think a man called Sinklo or Sinclair was the thin one in the odd couple pairings. With the child actors, though, unless they went on as adults (like Nathan Field) records are -very- limited indeed, so while we can infer a contrast of colour and height, we can't attach names. Pouncer: Is there a technical name for the artist's insertion, and the consumer's recognition, of what fandom now calls the "Easter Egg"? John: Well, yes -- categorically speaking, they are allusions, which can be advertent or inadvertent. Few people using the term's "mind's eye" intend a conscious allusion to HAM, which does not stop the phrase being at least a borrowing from, and so an allusion to, that play ; but advertent allusions are usually more interesting, and the issue you're raising involves who is making them -- character, Watsonian narrator, or omniscient narrator/author -- and those that would qualify as Easter Eggs (though its meaning is widening fast) are typically author to consumer, sometimes bypassing the Watsonian world altogether : as if the author, reading his or her story aloud, winks at you. That happens in Nabokov, say, with very organised purpose. Taking *Lolita*, the supposed author of the foreword does not know he is John Ray, Jr., to reiterate initials, and because John Ray Sr would be the C17 English entomologist who had a bunch of things to say about butterflies, in which Nabokov, but no-one in his novel, was seriously interested. BUT for a reader, knowing the source of the name posts a ghostly Nabokovian fingerprint ; and there are many more as the text proceeds. Some are by Humbert -and- Nabokov (like Poe and *Carmen*), but gaps between what Humbert means to signify and what Nabokov allows the knowing reader to understand he is signifying can and do diverge, greatly to Humbert's rhetorical and moral detriment. The novel is (inter alia) a sustained and astonishing act of ventriloquy that is also a devastating indictment of the ventriloquised ; and as with all stage ventriloquists, one can see the puppeteer as well as the puppet. As a much more puzzling example, at least three times in LR Tolkien makes an allusion that leads straight out of the fantasy text he's spinning. Fantasy does -not- usually like that sort of thing at all, and they go right past all readers save obsessives like myself ; but, the Fellowship leaves Rivendell on December 25th ; Sauron falls on Lady Day, thereafter in Gondor, as in England until 1754 (IIRC), the new year ; and Celeborn says, when he believes Gandalf dead, that in going into Moria he went into folly -- for which the Latin is ... moria. Other real-world sources and refs can help Watsonianly -- that Frodo means wise and Samwise, halfwise, in OE, say -- but these point only to Tolkien, so while they can find some lodging in the outermost shell of the construct of Tolkien as translator of Bilbo's and Frodo's writings, they are for appendix-dwellers. So it's a calculus, about whether a consumer is expected to know and recognise the allusion, and how disadvantaged they are if they don't, which is also a function of the value of the allusion within the plot. The points made about superhero franchises require a further distinction of 'author' into writer and publisher, the latter having a corporate identity, and posit a new commercial purpose of, what? brand loyalty reward, I suppose ; feelgood brand nostalgia, at any rate. But they are still allusions, and while the franchise examples seem very gestural, any allusion -can-, in the terminology of African-American lit. studies, signify on, not just signify -- that is, invoke knowledge not only of the referent, but of the significance of alluding to it, or of how others have alluded to it, or habitually allude to it. And recognition of allusion, especially such cued allusions as a franchise practice will induce, is rewarding, a feelgood inclusion, a cabbalistic decoding, a success indicating an elite reader ; to be supplied as exegesis to less elite readers. It can be debased to the level of the plastic toys fast food outlets give away ; but it needn't be. -- John Lennard, MA DPhil. (Oxon.), MA (WU) Associate Member, Hughes Hall, Cambridge Independent Scholar www.humanities-ebooks.co.uk *Mock-Death in Shakespeare's Plays* The first full study of Shakespeare's favourite dramatic device *The Exasperating Case of David Weber, or The Slow Death of The Honorverse* 22 years ago Weber created it and in the last ten he has broken it ... *Tolkien's Triumph: The Strange History of *The Lord of the Rings Just how did a 1000-page book with 6 appendices come to sell 8,500 copies per day? *Talking Sense About *Fifty Shades of Grey*, or Fanfiction, Feminism, and BDSM* The story the media *isn't* telling ... Available from Kindle Stores, and in PDF from the author. From proto at panix.com Sat Jan 15 20:27:28 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:27:28 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Joys of Doyle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jan 15, 2022, at 2:30 PM, John Lennard wrote: > > ObBujold: As Lois often says, responding to one of our questions, "Dunno. > Didn?t -have- to decide, so I didn't." It allows her freedom, which is more important in series. The Uterine Replicator series has a major theme of exploring the impact of Uterine Replicators (and biological advances in general) on society. People of age to read SF at the time of the beginning of that series may feel like strangers to their native land do to the changes of society. Just like in _Cryoburn_ there are places for the well to do to retreat to a familiar place sort of outside contemporary society. ? It?s better to be approximately correct than completely wrong. From proto at panix.com Sat Jan 15 20:33:59 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:33:59 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Life handed you by a stranger Message-ID: Miles say he had his life handed to him by a stranger several times. My most obvious example was after eating a salad in the company cafeteria, I took a walk and developed anaphylactic shock I went to the company?s medical facility where the doctor was out. But the nurse gave me a shot of adrenalin (epinephrine) even though she was not legally allowed to do so. And I survived. ? As the historical Buddha said, ?Hatred does not stop by hatred at any time; hatred stops only by love. this is an ancient rule.? about 2770 BP (BP means either Before Present or Before Physics that is before nuclear testing made it necessary to adjust carbon 14 dating. From wawenri at msn.com Sun Jan 16 00:53:37 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 00:53:37 +0000 Subject: [LMB] OT: School Closing In-Reply-To: <48F93CF9-F407-48C6-9FB2-0D02F88D8532@me.com> References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> <48F93CF9-F407-48C6-9FB2-0D02F88D8532@me.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- A. Marina Fournier It's beyond the attendance issue. More info: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.npr.org%2F2022%2F01%2F14%2F1072970219%2Fcyber-attack-in-albuquerque-latest-to-target-public-schools&data=04%7C01%7C%7C2fbdac54b2684b65dcc008d9d7888423%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637777803597966116%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=0hNCcv1o2rTu6QlISz5SZ6oNkodgHeRuU%2BKdDejRIiY%3D&reserved=0 ================================================= The information the schools sent to me didn't include anything except attendance. One of the advantages of the charter school is that it's small and, since I pick up Hazel and Anna every day, I'm recognizable even in a mask. William A Wenrich Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. From mark at allums.email Sun Jan 16 01:02:52 2022 From: mark at allums.email (Mark Allums) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 19:02:52 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: Message-ID: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> Book 9 is available for preorder: https://www.amazon.com/Amongst-Weapons-Rivers-London-Book-ebook/dp/B09MBQ27ZK/ Mark A. From fishman at panix.com Sun Jan 16 01:07:53 2022 From: fishman at panix.com (Harvey Fishman) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 01:07:53 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: In-Reply-To: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> References: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> Message-ID: ------ Original Message ------ From: "Mark Allums" To: ">> Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." Bcc: fishman at panix.com Sent: 1/15/2022 8:02:52 PM Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: >Book 9 is available for preorder: > >https://www.amazon.com/Amongst-Weapons-Rivers-London-Book-ebook/dp/B09MBQ27ZK/ > >Mark A. Expensive. Harvey > From mark at allums.email Sun Jan 16 01:16:22 2022 From: mark at allums.email (Mark Allums) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 19:16:22 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: In-Reply-To: References: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> Message-ID: <2d18bb79-5aea-8bbb-f57f-f548c29bcc2d@allums.email> On 1/15/2022 7:07 PM, Harvey Fishman wrote: > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Mark Allums" > To: ">> Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." > > Bcc: fishman at panix.com > Sent: 1/15/2022 8:02:52 PM > Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: > >> Book 9 is available for preorder: >> >> https://www.amazon.com/Amongst-Weapons-Rivers-London-Book-ebook/dp/B09MBQ27ZK/ >> >> >> Mark A. > Expensive. > > Harvey >> > > Yeah, Im going to wait for the price to come down, but it;s in the pipeline... Mark A. From fishman at panix.com Sun Jan 16 01:34:41 2022 From: fishman at panix.com (Harvey Fishman) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 01:34:41 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: In-Reply-To: <2d18bb79-5aea-8bbb-f57f-f548c29bcc2d@allums.email> References: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> <2d18bb79-5aea-8bbb-f57f-f548c29bcc2d@allums.email> Message-ID: ------ Original Message ------ From: "Mark Allums" To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Bcc: fishman at panix.com Sent: 1/15/2022 8:16:22 PM Subject: Re: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: >On 1/15/2022 7:07 PM, Harvey Fishman wrote: >> >> >>------ Original Message ------ >>From: "Mark Allums" >>To: ">> Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." >>Bcc: fishman at panix.com >>Sent: 1/15/2022 8:02:52 PM >>Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: >> >>>Book 9 is available for preorder: >>> >>>https://www.amazon.com/Amongst-Weapons-Rivers-London-Book-ebook/dp/B09MBQ27ZK/ >>> >>>Mark A. >>Expensive. >> >>Harvey >>> >> >> > >Yeah, Im going to wait for the price to come down, but it;s in the pipeline... > >Mark A. I ordered it. I figure that if the price is lowered before publication, Amazon will charge me the lower price and I do not get charged until they download it anyway. Still, Aaronovitch is coming up in the world. Harvey From wawenri at msn.com Sun Jan 16 01:36:49 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 01:36:49 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> References: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- M. Haller Yamada On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 06:58:36 AM GMT+9, Harvey Fishman wrote: Question: Does Vorlopoulis's Law apply to Gregor? Is he limited to 20 Armsmen? Harvey Micki: 20 sure doesn't seem like a lot, especially if you have a growing family. Drou was not an armsman; I'm also not sure if she carried a knife (even a Vorfemme knife . . . which would be problematic in a plebe?). But she could take down an enemy, and was surely trained in all sorts of non-knife weaponry.? ========================================== Drou could carry any weapon issued to her by her Vor superior. Kou had his swordstick issued to hin by Aral. In the rescue attempt, didn't she switch from a stunner to a nerve disruptor? William A Wenrich Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. From fishman at panix.com Sun Jan 16 01:44:24 2022 From: fishman at panix.com (Harvey Fishman) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 01:44:24 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ------ Original Message ------ From: "WILLIAM A WENRICH" To: "Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold." Bcc: fishman at panix.com Sent: 1/15/2022 8:36:49 PM Subject: Re: [LMB] Colors >Drou could carry any weapon issued to her by her Vor superior. Kou had his swordstick issued to hin by Aral. In the rescue attempt, didn't she switch from a stunner to a nerve disruptor? > >William A Wenrich >Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. > Aah, but who was her Vor superior? Did Cordelia become Vor by marrying Aral? Harvey > From domelouann at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 01:56:02 2022 From: domelouann at gmail.com (Louann Miller) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 19:56:02 -0600 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Aah, but who was her Vor superior? Did Cordelia become Vor by marrying > Aral? > I think that the Vor were anxious to think of Cordelia as Vor, after the shopping incident, if only to give them *some* mental handle on how to deal with her. > From becca7108 at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 01:56:30 2022 From: becca7108 at gmail.com (Becca Price) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:56:30 -0500 Subject: [LMB] LOTR...movies. books Message-ID: One odd thing that passed my news feed was an off it about the Lordof the Rings movies. While I enjoyed them, I am no LOTR scholar, and I don't think I ever watched the last movie. Nor am I a gamer, and the article is froma games site. I looked at itout of boredom, and got hooked. There is no master index, as far as I can tell,so you can only find more articles from internal links. For me it's as addictive as TVtropes. So, enjoy, but enter at your own risk https://gamerant.com/lotr-elves-change-books-movies-explained/ -- *"...there is no effort without error and shortcoming" - Theodore Roosevelt * From alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca Sun Jan 16 02:05:21 2022 From: alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca (alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 21:05:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: In-Reply-To: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> References: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Jan 2022, Mark Allums wrote: > Book 9 is available for preorder: > > https://www.amazon.com/Amongst-Weapons-Rivers-London-Book-ebook/dp/B09MBQ27ZK/ Re blurb for Amongst Weapons: I saw a documentary video featuring The London Silver Vaults sometime in the last few months. They were extraordinary, even if, like me, that's not your favourite style of decorative object. I'm currently listening to the audiobook of _Lies Sleeping_ (book 7). It was amusing to discover on the web that the Temple of Mithras was opened to the public in 2017. https://foreverkaren.com/travel/hidden-gems-london-england/ Alayne -- Alayne McGregor alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca What we need is a tough new kind of feminism with no illusions. ... We need a kind of feminism that aims not just to assimilate into the institutions that men have created over the centuries, but to infiltrate and subvert them. -- Barbara Ehrenreich From fred.fredex at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 02:16:49 2022 From: fred.fredex at gmail.com (Fred) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 21:16:49 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: In-Reply-To: References: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> Message-ID: So, why is Jose-Maria Beroy listed in the Amazon listing, but not explained anywhere? he appears to be involved in the Rivers of London comic books, so does that mean there are illustrations in this book that he did? A curious mind is, well, curious. Fred On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:05 PM wrote: > On Sat, 15 Jan 2022, Mark Allums wrote: > > Book 9 is available for preorder: > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/Amongst-Weapons-Rivers-London-Book-ebook/dp/B09MBQ27ZK/ > > Re blurb for Amongst Weapons: > I saw a documentary video featuring The London Silver Vaults sometime in > the last few months. They were extraordinary, even if, like me, that's not > your favourite style of decorative object. > > I'm currently listening to the audiobook of _Lies Sleeping_ (book 7). It > was amusing to discover on the web that the Temple of Mithras was opened > to the public in 2017. > https://foreverkaren.com/travel/hidden-gems-london-england/ > > Alayne > > -- > Alayne McGregor > alayne at twobikes.ottawa.on.ca > > What we need is a tough new kind of feminism with no illusions. ... We > need a kind of feminism that aims not just to assimilate into the > institutions that men have created over the centuries, but to infiltrate > and subvert them. -- Barbara Ehrenreich > -- > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to fred.fredex at gmail.com > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold > From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Sun Jan 16 07:31:15 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:31:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: <4a26a7c3-9b90-af52-80f3-4ae4a1cff2f8@matija.com> <1659062555.587609.1642138869499@mail.yahoo.com> <287923392.935878.1642234518660@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <601572460.1147924.1642318275694@mail.yahoo.com> On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 09:32:48 PM GMT+9, Karen Hunt wrote: Karen: There's an article on the fandom site: https://vorkosigan.fandom.com/wiki/Sergyaran_worm_plague It looks a bit skimpy to me, containing only references to the better information. One handy extra-canonical bit of info (list conversation): http://lists.herald.co.uk/old-archives/lois-bujold/970623-747 Gwynne's description is about right. Micki: Excellent! Esp. the extra-canonical explanation from Lois.? Here's a handy link to Gwynne's description, although I think the scars are caused by the worms as well as the digging-out procedure. Otherwise, why wouldn't the kids just carve themselves up without the worms? I think the organic patterns of the worm (maybe guided by worm-annoying tactics to some extent) are the attractive bit to kids. But I don't think there's text-ev; I'm just guessing.? http://lists.herald.co.uk/pipermail/lois-bujold/2022-January/009004.html (Gwynne's description) SO, how quickly would they diagnose this new threat? Microscopic, so people suddenly get itchy, then start bloating up and acting like they've got a huge allergy to something. Plus fevers. I would assume kids would be more likely to get it, since it's hard to keep kids out of the dirt. But of course, many, many adults would get it, too. But it's awfully scary when your kid starts puffing up and the doctor can only say, "Oh, that's interesting."? They would be in for a few months (at the very least) of not-knowing if it was contagious, if it was generally benign or if the low sample case just got lucky . . . . Brrrr.? Micki -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold From thefabmadamem at yahoo.com Sun Jan 16 07:35:20 2022 From: thefabmadamem at yahoo.com (M. Haller Yamada) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:35:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <3724B476-DDBA-4147-9863-BF3AA627D4A9@brazee.net> References: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> <3724B476-DDBA-4147-9863-BF3AA627D4A9@brazee.net> Message-ID: <305069341.1124638.1642318520062@mail.yahoo.com> On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 10:39:07 PM GMT+9, Howard Brazee wrote: > On Jan 15, 2022, at 1:17 AM, M. Haller Yamada via Lois-Bujold wrote: > > Question: Does Vorlopoulis's Law apply to Gregor? Is he limited to 20 > Armsmen? > > Harvey > > > > Micki: 20 sure doesn't seem like a lot, especially if you have a growing family. Drou was not an armsman; I'm also not sure if she carried a knife (even a Vorfemme knife . . . which would be problematic in a plebe?). But she could take down an enemy, and was surely trained in all sorts of non-knife weaponry. I always assumed (or maybe read) that the 20 armsman limit applied to Gregor as well.? Of course that doesn?t mean that Gregor didn?t have armies and secret service and ImpSec working for him as well. -- Micki: Oh, of course. I always assumed the 20 armsmen limit applied to Count Vorbarra. But yeah, just like Miles, Gregor would be able to tap on Imp Sec guards and military folks to help round out the edges -- the main difference being that for Miles and the other counts, the extra hands ultimately report to Gregor the Emperor, whereas, for Gregor, they essential report to the same guy wearing different hats. I'd forgotten about that.? From gwynnepowell at hotmail.com Sun Jan 16 10:18:17 2022 From: gwynnepowell at hotmail.com (Gwynne Powell) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 10:18:17 +0000 Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: "M. Haller Yamada" On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 09:32:48 PM GMT+9, Karen Hunt wrote: Karen: There's an article on the fandom site:.... Gwynne's description is about right. Micki: Excellent! Esp. the extra-canonical explanation from Lois.? Here's a handy link to Gwynne's description, although I think the scars are caused by the worms as well as the digging-out procedure. Otherwise, why wouldn't the kids just carve themselves up without the worms? I think the organic patterns of the worm (maybe guided by worm-annoying tactics to some extent) are the attractive bit to kids. But I don't think there's text-ev; I'm just guessing.? Gwynne: Yes, I wasn't clear - the worms crawl around under the skin, causing lesions on the surface. Ok, here's the interesting question: it's become fashionable for teens to deliberately host a worm to make interesting designs on their bodies - how do they direct the worms into the patterns they want? From proto at panix.com Sun Jan 16 12:14:29 2022 From: proto at panix.com (WalterStuartBushell) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:14:29 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <31A3B2A9-8287-4660-B5EE-4E67B5157BB5@panix.com> > On Jan 15, 2022, at 8:56 PM, Louann Miller wrote: > >> Aah, but who was her Vor superior? Did Cordelia become Vor by marrying >> Aral? >> > > I think that the Vor were anxious to think of Cordelia as Vor, after the > shopping incident, if only to give them *some* mental handle on how to > deal with her. Yes, women could gain or retain (when marrying) Vor status only by obtaining a Vor husband. ? It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.? ?W. K. Clifford (1845?1879), ?The Ethics? My take is belief should be proportional to the evidence. From lisa.spurrier at ntlworld.com Sun Jan 16 12:22:23 2022 From: lisa.spurrier at ntlworld.com (SPURRIER LISA) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:22:23 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [LMB] Amazon now listing Aaronovitch book OT: In-Reply-To: References: <9a4c4c56-fa2d-8998-b360-5ca75f6bc05e@allums.email> Message-ID: <1704732212.44977.1642335743847@mail2.virginmedia.com> It doesn't say that on the UK listing: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amongst-Our-Weapons-Rivers-London-ebook/dp/B09LH7D7CJ/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2FCBVV23KLCU8&keywords=aaronovitch&qid=1642335576&s=digital-text&sprefix=aaronovitcg%2Cdigital-text%2C87&sr=1-2 Have you got it mixed up with vol 9 of the graphic novels series? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rivers-London-Vol-Monday/dp/1787736261/ref=bmx_dp_g07xd51n_4/260-6645776-1273022?pd_rd_w=WH6Ua&pf_rd_p=34339076-eea1-4120-9c58-90ba36684caf&pf_rd_r=JW65ND06P6F6VQR5ABTC&pd_rd_r=44729d6f-c4d1-4919-85e8-1004d4152846&pd_rd_wg=qcajj&pd_rd_i=1787736261&psc=1 > On 16 January 2022 at 02:16 Fred wrote: > > > So, why is Jose-Maria Beroy listed in the Amazon listing, but not explained > anywhere? he appears to be involved in the Rivers of London comic books, so > does that mean there are illustrations in this book that he did? A curious > mind is, well, curious. > From wawenri at msn.com Sun Jan 16 14:11:59 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 14:11:59 +0000 Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I took the description in GJATRQ as an example of teen rebellion. Sort of like Goth with major tattoos. It?s supposed to look disgusting. William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of Gwynne Powell Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 3:18:17 AM To: lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing From: "M. Haller Yamada" On Saturday, January 15, 2022, 09:32:48 PM GMT+9, Karen Hunt wrote: Karen: There's an article on the fandom site:.... Gwynne's description is about right. Micki: Excellent! Esp. the extra-canonical explanation from Lois.? Here's a handy link to Gwynne's description, although I think the scars are caused by the worms as well as the digging-out procedure. Otherwise, why wouldn't the kids just carve themselves up without the worms? I think the organic patterns of the worm (maybe guided by worm-annoying tactics to some extent) are the attractive bit to kids. But I don't think there's text-ev; I'm just guessing.? Gwynne: Yes, I wasn't clear - the worms crawl around under the skin, causing lesions on the surface. Ok, here's the interesting question: it's become fashionable for teens to deliberately host a worm to make interesting designs on their bodies - how do they direct the worms into the patterns they want? -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cad5723ac201e46dbb32108d9d8d98b6f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779251131971622%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3ag4BYpjc7hDaI1KFmpYgcyol2ZXvdKR9CmPfYLqbc4%3D&reserved=0 From wawenri at msn.com Sun Jan 16 14:23:27 2022 From: wawenri at msn.com (WILLIAM A WENRICH) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 14:23:27 +0000 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: <31A3B2A9-8287-4660-B5EE-4E67B5157BB5@panix.com> References: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> <31A3B2A9-8287-4660-B5EE-4E67B5157BB5@panix.com> Message-ID: Didn?t we see a number of Vor buds who married rich plebes and retained their Vor status? I think that there was canon about 20-year men with Vor girls. (If the girl was mid-twenties and the man late 30?s, that?s not too squickish.) William A Wenrich * A sinner dependent on God?s grace. ________________________________ From: Lois-Bujold on behalf of WalterStuartBushell Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:14:29 AM To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. Subject: Re: [LMB] Colors > On Jan 15, 2022, at 8:56 PM, Louann Miller wrote: > >> Aah, but who was her Vor superior? Did Cordelia become Vor by marrying >> Aral? >> > > I think that the Vor were anxious to think of Cordelia as Vor, after the > shopping incident, if only to give them *some* mental handle on how to > deal with her. Yes, women could gain or retain (when marrying) Vor status only by obtaining a Vor husband. ? It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.? ?W. K. Clifford (1845?1879), ?The Ethics? My take is belief should be proportional to the evidence. -- Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to wawenri at msn.com Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.herald.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flois-bujold&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce85cd47d347a41daf4cb08d9d8e9c417%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779320794626507%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=fei%2B8ZwDiVbelK%2ByBXFVTAQ9mcxddS%2FNwhJN3v2wFys%3D&reserved=0 From ravenclaweric at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 17:49:57 2022 From: ravenclaweric at gmail.com (Eric Oppen) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 11:49:57 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Book alert Message-ID: According to Bookbub, the Silmarillion's up for sale at Amazon for $2.99 for the Kindle version. I thought some of you might be interested. From domelouann at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 18:04:17 2022 From: domelouann at gmail.com (Louann Miller) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:04:17 -0600 Subject: [LMB] OT: Book alert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:50 AM Eric Oppen wrote: > According to Bookbub, the Silmarillion's up for sale at Amazon for $2.99 > for the Kindle version. I thought some of you might be interested. > I definitely see that sale on US Amazon. Thanks for the alert, I'm grabbing it. Not sure if it's on sale in other countries. From litalex at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 18:42:29 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:42:29 -0500 Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <088542F5-3077-43FE-82F0-C2A431379B97@gmail.com> Hello, > On Jan 16, 2022, at 09:11, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > I took the description in GJATRQ as an example of teen rebellion. Sort of like Goth with major tattoos. It?s supposed to look disgusting. Um, why do you assume that goths want their tattoos to look disgusting? Maybe they thought their body ink look great. little Alex From litalex at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 18:45:30 2022 From: litalex at gmail.com (Alex Kwan) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:45:30 -0500 Subject: [LMB] Colors In-Reply-To: References: <878782452.938960.1642234673523@mail.yahoo.com> <31A3B2A9-8287-4660-B5EE-4E67B5157BB5@panix.com> Message-ID: <6375B1B7-5519-460F-8AFA-71EF713C781C@gmail.com> Hello, > On Jan 16, 2022, at 09:23, WILLIAM A WENRICH wrote: > > Didn?t we see a number of Vor buds who married rich plebes and retained their Vor status? I think that there was canon about 20-year men with Vor girls. (If the girl was mid-twenties and the man late 30?s, that?s not too squickish.) I don?t think the Vor young women got to kept their Vor status?? It?s probably just that the Vor don?t judge them harshly and still invite them to parties, etc. IIRC, the part about the 20-year men is that they?re deemed honorary Vor, not actual ones. little Alex From howard at brazee.net Sun Jan 16 18:45:29 2022 From: howard at brazee.net (Howard Brazee) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 11:45:29 -0700 Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: <088542F5-3077-43FE-82F0-C2A431379B97@gmail.com> References: <088542F5-3077-43FE-82F0-C2A431379B97@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On Jan 16, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Alex Kwan wrote: > >> I took the description in GJATRQ as an example of teen rebellion. Sort of like Goth with major tattoos. It?s supposed to look disgusting. > > Um, why do you assume that goths want their tattoos to look disgusting? Maybe they thought their body ink look great. Some do, some don?t. Some love the shock value and the identity issue. From margdean56 at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 22:09:56 2022 From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 15:09:56 -0700 Subject: [LMB] On topic: now plague worms was: School Closing In-Reply-To: References: <088542F5-3077-43FE-82F0-C2A431379B97@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:45 AM Howard Brazee wrote: > > > > On Jan 16, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Alex Kwan wrote: > > > >> I took the description in GJATRQ as an example of teen rebellion. Sort > of like Goth with major tattoos. It?s supposed to look disgusting. > > > > Um, why do you assume that goths want their tattoos to look disgusting? > Maybe they thought their body ink look great. > > Some do, some don?t. Some love the shock value and the identity issue. If the tunnels/scars the worms make naturally are something like the tunnels of, say, bark beetles in wood, they might look more interesting than disgusting. This photo > reminds me a bit of a section of wood-bored tree limb my late father used to use to imprint the interesting patterns on wet clay for pottery. --Margaret Dean