[LMB] HH ch 14

PAT MATHEWS mathews55 at msn.com
Sun May 7 14:50:59 BST 2006

>From: J Selin <harimad2001 at yahoo.com>
>And now on to the show!
>The Son doesn't seem to have any trouble with the animals, only that
>they prevent their, er, investees from entering the gates.  So why,
>then, did the Darcathians and the new Wealdians consider it black

I think the Darthacans saw the entire Weald and its customs as primitive and 
determined to "civilize" them - with considerable success, as Wencel 
complains (earlier? Later on?) There are apparently differences even among 
Quintarians, and only the Northern peoples had animal shamans.

  I wonder what the old Wealdians' neighbors thought about it,
>at the time.  Did miracles and saints happen amongst the old
>Wealdians?  If so, you'd think that was strong evidence that the Gods
>didn't object.
>*Why* can't investees pass the Gods' gates?

Apparently the animals have to be set free first. "Oh. you can't get to 
heaven ... with a prisoner in tow"

>What did the Son do, to set Ingrey and Ijada along this path?  Given
>Ijada's role in Boleso's death (and therefore in the necessity of his
>being freed of his animal spirits), did the Son start her along the
>path before that, or did he take advantage when she became inhabited?
>  Why did she become inhabited at all?
>Whose redemption is it, anyway?  Boleso is the obvious answer but I
>also wondered what happens to animals?  To special animals like
>Ingrey's wolf, who have uber-spirits?

It seems to me to be plain that once released, they go to whatever place is 
appointed for them.

As the chapter unfolds it
>becomes clear to us that it is also Ijada's redemption.  That,
>perhaps, is more important to justice for Boleso; it certainly is for
>Why does the Son resist passing judgment?

The Son almost certainly must have realized what even court gossip had 
picked up on, that Boleso was mentally ill and therefore in need of healing 
rather than judgment.

The Son refers to the
>Father as the judicar instead.  Do all souls stand before the Father
>at some point or is it only the ones who are devoted/chosen by the
>Father?  If so, that sounds like uneven application of justice to me.

We know from earlier works the Dratsab lets the souls destined for his hell 
pass judgment on themselves. And the Son remarks that where Boleso is going 
there is a good physician. So what I see is that the Father deals out 
justice; the Mother deals out healing; the Dratsab takes those who refuse to 
be healed, and I'm not sure what the Son and Daughter do besides receive the 
souls of those who don't need that sort of treatment.

>  I am not pleased with the Son shifting the burden of judgment onto a
>mortal; Gods see differently.  And asking Ingrey if he'd rather stand
>before the Father instead sounds like a cop-out: I'll let you out of
>divine justice if you let someone else avoid it as well.  There would
>be no justice at all if that were really the deal.

That was a rhetorical question designed to make Ingrey think, truly *think*, 
about what he was asking. I've used that device myself.
>We know something of 5G heaven; sundering is like the more pleasant
>of Dante's circles of purgatory; is there a hell?  Is the 5G "heaven"
>all good, like the Christian heaven; or is it all the non-sundered
>afterlife options, like the Buddhist version?

We've seen the Daughter's garden and the Father's banquet table; we've 
glimpsed the Dratsab's anteroom. They strike me all as different metaphors 
for the same thing.

>Why can't the Gods touch the animal spirits?  That the Son says "It
>is well" when the first beast pulled from Boleso, sorts of
>disappears, implies some connection between the Son (or all Gods?)
>and animals.
>Does Boleso deserve mercy?

To the extent that he is mentally ill, he deserves healing. To the extent 
that he will know he's done wrong and not cling to it, he will not deserve 
to be thrown back into the Cauldron. Whatever else happens strikes me more 
as rehabilitation than anything else. Not to make analogies that don't fit, 
but our own God "Desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather than he may 
turn from his wickedness and live."
>Does the Son (or any of the Gods) know what happens to the last
>shaman, and chooses to keep that knowledge from Ingrey.

I think the Son does not know. Which character was it who remarked that the 
gods seems to be playing this chess game four or five moves ahead of us, but 
not with clear knowledge of the endgame?

We know the
>Gods are parsimonious and they avoid clear instructions.
>Ingrey, when he returns to Wencel's house, is NOT subtle.  What
>problems will this cause later.
>I really want to know what Lewko perceived.  And what Wencel
>perceived.  Given their differing sources of insight, the differences
>should be enlightening.
>And, suddenly, at the end of the chapter, we learn the *real*
>plotline of the book: the freeing of the 4000 of Holyfield.  How long
>have the Gods been working towards this one?!?  With that many, there
>must be devotees of all Five.  Can the Gods cooperate?  What does it
>look like when they do?

They surely did here!

>Sidenote: I think Ingrey's insistence on solving their mundane
>problems is his digging in his heels, resisting the supernatural.
>Even if his analysis is correct.
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>Lois-Bujold mailing list
>Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk

More information about the Lois-Bujold mailing list