[LMB] TSK - Echoes

Eric Oppen ravenclaweric at gmail.com
Mon Jul 22 19:20:40 BST 2019

One thing that I like about A Song of Ice and Fire is that there isn't "Big
Good" vs. "Big Bad."  We see into the minds of people on all sides, and see
that nobody's a villain in his own story.  There are some undeniably evil
people---the Boltons and Walder Frey come to mind, as does Petyr
Baelish...but even the "good guys" do some awful things, and even most of
the "bad guys" do good things sometimes.  And people change.  When we first
see him, Jaime Lannister is about as bad as it gets, but capture,
misfortune, and suffering change him greatly, making him IMO a pretty good
guy, over all.

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:59 AM Joel Polowin <jpolowin at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Gwynne Powell <gwynnepowell at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Gwynne: One thing that depresses me about most evil overlords is that
> they're
> > so small, in their ambitions. Yes, they want to take over the world, etc
> etc, but...
> > then what? They have no reason for doing it except to bounce around
> gloating.
> In many cases, the goal is to be in absolute control.  They intend
> to spend the rest of their lives occupied with the business of
> running things.  The matter of removing other people's agency and
> freedom-to-choose is one aspect of their being evil.  Another is that
> they're willing to perform a great deal of harm towards getting and
> keeping that control.
> A nice example is Baron Wulfenbach, from _Girl Genius_.  His goal is
> control, to stem the chaos that is making everyone's lives a dangerous
> nightmare.  He doesn't particularly want to be in charge, and hates
> that he has to spend his life maintaining his empire rather than doing
> interesting things.  But his perception is that somebody needs to
> do the job, and that he can't trust anyone else to do it properly.
> That perception is coloured by his having been badly betrayed by
> several people whom he had trusted.  He has no interest in harming
> people beyond what is absolutely necessary to achieve that goal of
> control.  He doesn't even like *hurting* people, though he's willing
> to hire an underling who does... whom he tries, with mixed success,
> to keep on a short leash.  In D&D terms, he's "lawful neutral", and
> was more than willing to work with the neutral-good "Heterodyne Boys"
> towards their mutual goal of making Europa safe.  I don't recall if he
> was around at the same time as the earlier members of the Heterodyne
> family, who would seem to be characterized generally as "chaotic evil",
> but if so, he would have been fighting them.
> Joel
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