[LMB] OT: Surgical placebos
antoineperso at gmail.com
Wed Apr 8 19:51:26 BST 2020
3 years ago, I had heavy problems with my left elbow (more or less a tennis elbow painful and debilitating, as I have 3 small kids who love to be carried by daddy , went to see a doctor, who happened to be a surgeon as well!
He told me, he could do three things: operate, do an infiltration in the elbow to get rid of the pain or go old school with some anti-inflammatory medication, a bandage to stabilise the joint and reduce movement to ensure that the tendons didn’t overstretch ...
I then asked him: ok chances of success: he told me: the same for all 3 methods... only difference is: the 3D one costs only much time and nowhere near as much money!
I choose to go with time and half a year later, was as good as new ...
Found it more than fair from the sturgeon to be that honest
> Am 08.04.2020 um 20:38 schrieb Pouncer via Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>:
> Karen Hunt reminds us:
>> some recent [studies ] compared statin drugs to artery stents.
>> Both are known treatments, so it's not really wrong to give one or the
>> other, and researchers want to know which treatment is better for what set
>> of circumstances (for what it's worth, statins have been winning over
>> stents for most situations).
> First, disclosing a bias, stents seem to me a good example of the
> general over-deification of surgeons. Successfully surgery, which
> * IS * a lot more common that it was a century ago, is so dramatic
> and so immediate that many of us in the general public tend to
> demand dramatic, immediate, miracles regardless of the technique.
> Or cost. Or need. Reconstructing a breast after cancer is
> mentally therapeutic, and so we have an entire surgical industry
> boosting the self-regard of certain persons. And certain surgeons.
> Stents are so valuable for emergency repairs of heart blockages
> that they've be used by too many as the "go to" procedure for
> milder and more chronic cases. Or so I say as a layman. YMMV.
> The always reliable US news network NPR ( well, mostly reliable.
> Well, somewhat reliable. Well, at least as much as the paid
> media. Well … ) reported this year on surgeons doing procedures
> on knee cartilage. All procedures the same, except, after
> incisions, some surgeons opened sealed ordered and found
> themselves directed to close up, without doing the work on
> the damaged or diseased cartilage. Interestingly, the results
> after recovery and therapy were comparably good for those that
> had the "real" procedure and those who had what amounts to
> a placebo surgery. It certainly leads to the question of
> whether the surgery adds anything to the physical therapy. Or
> for that matter whether the expense and emotional investment in
> surgery prompts a patient to expect, and experience, better
> results. Again, speaking only as a layman, I suspect the
> cartilage work does help many. But perhaps not AS many as
> the surgeons who believe it helps are expecting.
> Comparing stents -- surgery -- to statins -- drugs -- is related.
> In any case it is not a matter of taking an option away from
> patients or doctors. It should be, though, a continuing process
> of measuring how well a new idea works. All of us have
> some bias in favor of the new and dramatic. That surgeons
> are worse, IMO, is inescapable given their importance. It will be
> a better system when physical therapists, pharmacists,
> nutritionists, allergists, and emotional support animals get
> a little more of the regard they're due, even if such regard
> comes at the expense, or sacrifice, of surgeons.
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