[LMB] OT: Who else likes skirts

Peterhews Peterhews at protonmail.com
Tue Apr 21 22:36:00 BST 2020


This is why I've worn a belt pouch for most of my adult life.  (Fortunately, I've never had to hold down a job where I had to look "normal.")  I like to have a lot of useful items to hand, but I don't want pockets that bulge, or to have to transfer everything from one pair of pants to another.

When mobile phones first came out, they made very practical holsters for them.  Then the phones got small enough to go in a pocket, and the holsters disappeared.  But getting a phone out of your pocket while seated is still an exercise in frustration.


Peter Hews

Oh better far to live and die under the brave black flag I fly,
Than play a sanctimonious part with a pirate head and a pirate heart.

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Monday, 20 April 2020 19:10, Eric Oppen <ravenclaweric at gmail.com> wrote:

> Men's clothes are by no means perfect, particularly if you have a
> non-standard body. The last "big and tall" men's store that I know of in
> the nearest metro area shut down some years past. If it weren't for my
> brother and sis-in-law gifting me with clothes most Christmases, I'd look
> like the chief ragbag.
>
> And the pockets in men's clothes are not always easy to reach, particularly
> if you're sitting down. If I could sew I'd want to run myself up a vest to
> wear when I'm driving, with lots and LOTS of pockets I can reach from a
> sitting position without having to unbuckle and squirm around to get at
> them.
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:51 PM Beatrice Otter via Lois-Bujold <
> lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > ---- On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:55:05 -0700 Zan Lynx zlynx at acm.org wrote
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > On 4/20/2020 10:48 AM, Louann Miller wrote:
> >
> > > Zan, I'm sending that you have no firsthand experience with either (a)
> > > shopping for women's jeans in an attempt to find some that aren't skin
> > > tight or (b) trying to put something, even your hand, in the kinds of
> > > pockets you get in women's clothing. (A) is impossible. (B) is very
> > > nearly
> > > so. You'll find that girl pockets are decorative rather than functional.
> >
> > Then if they really wanted pockets they could buy men's jeans and use a
> > belt because yes I know about the hips being a different shape.
> > My primary point wasn't the jeans it was that many women who know
> > perfectly well how to make clothes don't bother to make pockets. So it
> > obviously isn't a male designer problem.
> > Zan, many women do wear men's pants for just that reason! But not every
> > woman can get them to fit even with belts, and if you do, you often look
> > "weird" and face social consequences, everything from getting reprimanded
> > by your boss to getting called a slob to getting harassed. And besides
> > what people say to your face, you will often see a drop in how well people
> > respond to you. How long does it take clerks in a store to serve you, for
> > example, how much credence people give your opinions, whether you get hired
> > or a raise or a promotion, how well people follow your instructions--these
> > are all things that, for women, depend to a very large degree upon how much
> > you conform to standards of what a woman "should" look like, how she
> > "should" dress.
> > Maybe my emails aren't getting through again, but as I pointed out, adding
> > pockets is actually a lot trickier than you are imagining even if you know
> > how to sew. If you add pockets to existing garments, chances are that it's
> > going to look funny or hang wrong because it's not designed to have extra
> > weight at that point. And that's assuming that it fits loosely enough to
> > get stuff IN the pockets, which most modern garments for women do not.
> > Men's garments are designed to handle weight and room in the pockets, and
> > so they are made of different fabrics and designed in different ways to
> > accommodate that, which means that putting pockets in a garment not
> > designed for them is going to run into all sorts of unexpected issues.
> > There are ways to do it! It can be done! There are many tutorials out
> > there to show you how! But it's complicated and the results may not be as
> > good as one hopes.
> > If you make your own garments ... there are still issues. First, most
> > people who sew (and sew very well!) do not know how to alter patterns even
> > for such minor alterations as adding pockets, and alas, patterns are
> > designed to ape the fashionable styles and so a pattern for, say, a skirt
> > is going to have the same likelihood of having pockets that a garment
> > bought in a store will have. Second, do you have any idea how much time
> > and effort and money it takes to sew? You will often find that simply
> > purchasing the fabric costs 2-3 times as much as purchasing the garment
> > ready-made would, and the pattern costs money, too, and then it takes you
> > many hours worth of work to put it together. It's not just that it takes
> > more time, it's that it is ALSO significantly more expensive even if you
> > don't add in the value of the labor you expend to make it.
> > Again, all of these problems have solutions, it's not that it's
> > impossible, I just want you to realize that saying "well, if they wanted
> > pockets the ones who can sew could add them" is ... drastically
> > underestimating the issues involved.
> > Oh! A tip for those of you who do sew and add pockets to things not
> > designed for them, on dealing with the weight issue. I watched a video
> > about taking patterns from a book of 19th Century patterns, and the
> > pockets designed for skirts had a cloth tape that attached from the top of
> > the pocket up to the waistband--it wasn't attached to the skirt itself,
> > just the pocket and the waistband. (This is on the inside of the skirt,
> > obviously.) After some experimentation, the seamstress found that this was
> > so the weight of whatever you had in the pocket would hang directly from
> > the waistband instead of from the side seam of the skirt where the pocket
> > was inserted.
> >
> > Beatrice Otter
> >
> > ---------------
> >
> > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to ravenclaweric at gmail.com
> > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
> > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold
>
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